Supreme Court Allows Sandy Hook Families' Case Against Remington Arms To Proceed

[JoeB131]

it is not the absence of guns that has led to the low crime rate. It is the cultural norm. Obedience. Subservience. Arriving at work two hours early and staying late off the clock is the norm. Shame is real. And used. To insure that people comply with the norms.

Use your Mobile Phone on a train. Many people will come forward to tell you to stop as one example.

The attitude towards those who commit a crime is not the same either. It is not that Johnny made a mistake. Johnny did not fall in with a bad crowd. Johnny shamed the entire family. The entire family deals with Johnny being bad.

Yeah, I'm going with lack of guns... Frankly, with that kind of societal pressure, they'd probably have a lot of people going full Lanza if they had lots of guns....

 

[SavannahMann]

it is not the absence of guns that has led to the low crime rate. It is the cultural norm. Obedience. Subservience. Arriving at work two hours early and staying late off the clock is the norm. Shame is real. And used. To insure that people comply with the norms.

Use your Mobile Phone on a train. Many people will come forward to tell you to stop as one example.

The attitude towards those who commit a crime is not the same either. It is not that Johnny made a mistake. Johnny did not fall in with a bad crowd. Johnny shamed the entire family. The entire family deals with Johnny being bad.

Yeah, I'm going with lack of guns... Frankly, with that kind of societal pressure, they'd probably have a lot of people going full Lanza if they had lots of guns....

Lanza was an oddity. Most of our nuts are tired of being invisible or picked on. In Japan acting out like that would likely lose your family their jobs and be shunned. You would speak to the grocer and he would stare straight ahead as if not hearing you. Or would talk to the person next to you about how awful your family was.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

You’ve done nothing but whine about rich people, Catholics and gun owners since you got here. And talking about not discussing the issue, you’re the one who brought up the totally unrelated topics of unions, rich people, Catholics and Nick Sandmann.

And how did you know I have a tiny dick?

All gun nuts have tiny dicks..

Do you own any firearms?

t's all kind of related, guy... if the Rich actually ran on their actual agenda, which is to cheat you out of the little money you make for doing the hard work, even the dumbest MAGA Nazi wouldn't vote for that.

But you go on about guns, god, abortion, gays and all the other bullshit that has nothing to do with their economic well-being, and MAN, do you guys go on and on.

"Hey, they just moved my job to China!"

"Never mind that, there's some dude in a dress!!!!"

40 years, you dumbasses have been falling for this...

There it is again. Nothing I’ve said about myself that contradicts your “Bibles, guns, darkies and queers” narrative has even registered.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

All gun nuts have tiny dicks.

Even if that were true, you wouldn't know it anyway.

But in any event, your creepy obsession with other men's genitalia, and your pathetic projection of your own perceived sexual inadequacies on others, really isn't relevant to this discussion, other than as proof of the truth of a statement of unknown provenance, commonly misattributed to Freud, about a fear of weapons being a sign of retarded sexual development.

 

[PoliticalChic]

As I have said before about the mutterings of this august body, the judicial decisions of the Supreme Court should be treated the same way Red and Green lights are treated in Rome....as merely a suggestion.


There is no valid lawsuit against the gun manufacturers.

26 Families in Sandy Hook would disagree.

Slap those autopsy and crime scene photos down in front of a jury, let's see how it plays.

You focus on the guns, not the democrats who let known, repeat, violent gun offenders out of prison over and over again....these are the actual gun killers racking up 10,265 deaths a year....after they have already been captured for previous felonies and gun offenses...then your asshats let them out on bond and out of prison with insanely light prison sentences.....that is our problem......not mass public shootings.

Again, we already lock up 2 million people.... locking people up isn't a deterrent..

Funny thing. Japan only locks up 69,000 people out of a population of 120 million. Beccause they can't get guns, they don't have to worry about these things.

Oh, wait. Someone threw a grenade 10 years ago... you go with that.

"26 Families in Sandy Hook would disagree."


Here's the difference: I'm never wrong.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

There’s no reason to think Sandmann’s group should have known this. They were waiting for their bus and they were not demonstrating and had not petitioned to demonstrate. So they would have had no idea who these people were. They likely did not even know who the group of ranting black guys were.

Hey, funny thing... If I don't know who people are or why they are there, I don't engage them... Not these LCB's... they started getting into taunting arguments.

1) Any taunting done by Covington kids was with the Black Israelites, not Phillips and his group.
2) Sandmann was not with the group interacting with the Black Israelites.
3) Neither Sandmann or any of the Covington kids engaged Phillips; Phillips engaged them. The video proves this which means you know this.
4) Phillips didn’t know who they were any more than they knew he was or what group he was with. All he knew was that some were wearing MAGA hats. So by your own criteria, Phillips should not have engaged them. Thank you for finally acknowledging this.

Um, no, not at the Lincoln Memorial they were not. The March For Life rally took place on the National Mall at least a full mile from the Lincoln Memorial. The boys were at the Lincoln Memorial to wait for their bus AFTER the march.

Oh, they took some time off from being Misogynistic Assholes... that makes it okay, then.

1) Makes what okay?
2) It is irrelevant anyway. The fact remains that you were wrong; they were not protesting. This being the case, they did not and could not know who Phillips was.

The boy had mental problems and there is no indication that Nancy was crazy.

I did some looking around and read about six or seven articles on the incident and nowhere did I see any neighbor testimony that Nancy Lanza was a nutcase.

Then you aren't reading the right articles...

Adam Lanza’s Mother Was a Gun Enthusiast, Friends Say

Ms. Lanza’s fascination with guns became an important focus of attention on Saturday as investigators tried to determine what caused Mr. Lanza to carry out one of the worst massacres in the nation’s history.

Ms. Lanza, 52, had gone through a divorce in 2008 and was described by friends as social and generous to strangers, but also high-strung, as if she were holding herself together.

From the same article:

“She...had struggled to help him (Adam) cope with a developmental disorder that often left him reserved and withdrawn, according to relatives, friends and former classmates.”

“His mother (Nancy Lanza) was always nice to me; she was a kind, typical suburban mom as far as I remember.”

“She was really kind and warm,” Mr. Leff said, “but she always seemed a little bit high-strung.”

“He declined to elaborate, but in a post on his personal Web site, he said he felt a distance from her that was explained when he heard, after the shootings, “how difficult her troubled son, was making things for her”

By no means does this article suggest that neighbors saw Ms. Lanza as crazy, nuts or mentally or emotionally unstable. On the contrary, overall neighbor testimony paints a picture of a devoted but stressed mother struggling to care for an autistic child with learning and developmental disorders that she had had to deal with for twenty years, the last four by herself and with little help from the boy’s father.

You’re going to have to do better than this. Get back with me after you’ve spent some time raising an autistic child.

Any parent will tell you that raising children is the greatest challenge in life. Any parent of an autistic child will tell you that the usual child-raising challenges are magnified tenfold with an autistic child, with about a hundred other challenges thrown in.

You have no fucking clue what you’re talking about here and your biases, prejudices, misconstructions and misconceptions make you the last person in the world qualified to offer an opinion on the matter.

 

[2aguy]

Moron.....you have no idea what you are talking about...

Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...

I didn't even bring up Kellerman and how you are 43 times more likely to be killed by a gun in your home than to kill a bad guy with that gun.

But it still is there. A gun in the home is more dangerous than you than the bad guys...

Moron, you have been shown that kellerman was lying, over and over again.

 

[martybegan]

Moron.....you have no idea what you are talking about...

Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...

I didn't even bring up Kellerman and how you are 43 times more likely to be killed by a gun in your home than to kill a bad guy with that gun.

But it still is there. A gun in the home is more dangerous than you than the bad guys...

Moron, you have been shown that kellerman was lying, over and over again.

He holds onto Kellerman like a baby clutches their pacifier.

 

[2aguy]

As I have said before about the mutterings of this august body, the judicial decisions of the Supreme Court should be treated the same way Red and Green lights are treated in Rome....as merely a suggestion.


There is no valid lawsuit against the gun manufacturers.

26 Families in Sandy Hook would disagree.

Slap those autopsy and crime scene photos down in front of a jury, let's see how it plays.

You focus on the guns, not the democrats who let known, repeat, violent gun offenders out of prison over and over again....these are the actual gun killers racking up 10,265 deaths a year....after they have already been captured for previous felonies and gun offenses...then your asshats let them out on bond and out of prison with insanely light prison sentences.....that is our problem......not mass public shootings.

Again, we already lock up 2 million people.... locking people up isn't a deterrent..

Funny thing. Japan only locks up 69,000 people out of a population of 120 million. Beccause they can't get guns, they don't have to worry about these things.

Oh, wait. Someone threw a grenade 10 years ago... you go with that.

Japanese crime stats have more to do with Japanese culture. Are you saying you wish to adapt the American Culture to more closely resemble the Japanese Gaijin?

Japan has a police state, and a culture that punishes law breaking and norm breaking...

https://www.asiatimes.com/2017/12/article/japans-gun-control-laws-strict-yakuza-turn-toy-pistols/



Ryo Fujiwara, long-time writer on yakuza affairs and author of the book, The Three Yamaguchi-Gumi, says that the punishment for using a gun in a gang war or in a crime is now so heavy that most yakuza avoid their use at all – unless it is for an assassination.

“In a hit, whoever fires the gun, or is made to take responsibility for firing the gun, has to pretty much be willing to go to jail for the rest of their life. That’s a big decision. The repercussions are big, too. No one wants to claim responsibility for such acts – the gang office might actually get shut-down.”

The gang typically also has to support the family of the hit-man while he is in prison, which is also a financial burden for the organization.

Japan’s Firearms and Swords Control Laws make it a crime to illegally possess a gun, with a punishment of jail time of up to 10 years.

Illegal possession more than one gun, the penalty goes up to 15 years in prison. If you own a gun and matching ammunition, that’s another charge and a heavier penalty. The most severe penalty is for the act of discharging a gun in a train, on a bus, or most public spaces, which can result in a life sentence.

-----

A low-ranking member of the Kobe-Yamaguchi-gumi put it this way: “All of the smart guys got rid of their guns a long-time ago. The penalties are way too high. You get life in prison if you just fire a gun. That’s not fun.”



--A police officer in Osaka’s Organized Crime Control Division, speaking on background noted, “In the de facto world of law enforcement, when a yakuza fires a gun, we’re almost always going to charge them with attempted murder—which is a very heavy crime and serious time in ‘the pig-house’ (jail). Guns kill people, so if you use one, intent to kill is right there. Toy guns? Not so much.”

He added, “Unless you’re an old gangster and wanting to stay in jail until you die because you got nowhere else to go, you don’t use a gun. The crime isn’t worth the time in jail.”

-------

 

[2aguy]

it is not the absence of guns that has led to the low crime rate. It is the cultural norm. Obedience. Subservience. Arriving at work two hours early and staying late off the clock is the norm. Shame is real. And used. To insure that people comply with the norms.

Use your Mobile Phone on a train. Many people will come forward to tell you to stop as one example.

The attitude towards those who commit a crime is not the same either. It is not that Johnny made a mistake. Johnny did not fall in with a bad crowd. Johnny shamed the entire family. The entire family deals with Johnny being bad.

Yeah, I'm going with lack of guns... Frankly, with that kind of societal pressure, they'd probably have a lot of people going full Lanza if they had lots of guns....

Wrong, long prison sentences and a conformist culture....

Japan: Gun Control and People Control

Japan's low crime rate has almost nothing to do with gun control, and everything to do with people control. Americans, used to their own traditions of freedom, would not accept Japan's system of people controls and gun controls.



Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics? No, they don't. A realistic examination of Japanese culture leads to the conclusion that gun control has little, if anything, to do with Japan's low crime rates. Japan's lack of crime is more the result of the very extensive powers of the Japanese police, and the distinctive relation of the Japanese citizenry to authority. Further, none of the reasons which have made gun control succeed in Japan (in terms of disarming citizens) exist in the U.S.

The Japanese criminal justice system bears more heavily on a suspect than any other system in an industrial democratic nation. One American found this out when he was arrested in Okinawa for possessing marijuana: he was interrogated for days without an attorney, and signed a confession written in Japanese that he could not read. He met his lawyer for the first time at his trial, which took 30 minutes.

Unlike in the United States, where the Miranda rule limits coercive police interrogation techniques, Japanese police and prosecutors may detain a suspect indefinitely until he confesses. (Technically, detentions are only allowed for three days, followed by ten day extensions approved by a judge, but defense attorneys rarely oppose the extension request, for fear of offending the prosecutor.) Bail is denied if it would interfere with interrogation.

Even after interrogation is completed, pretrial detention may continue on a variety of pretexts, such as preventing the defendant from destroying evidence. Criminal defense lawyers are the only people allowed to visit a detained suspect, and those meetings are strictly limited.

Partly as a result of these coercive practices, and partly as a result of the Japanese sense of shame, the confession rate is 95%.

For those few defendants who dare to go to trial, there is no jury. Since judges almost always defer to the prosecutors' judgment, the trial conviction rate for violent crime is 99.5%.
Of those convicted, 98% receive jail time.

In short, once a Japanese suspect is apprehended, the power of the prosecutor makes it very likely the suspect will go to jail. And the power of the policeman makes it quite likely that a criminal will be apprehended.

The police routinely ask "suspicious" characters to show what is in their purse or sack. In effect, the police can search almost anyone, almost anytime, because courts only rarely exclude evidence seized by the police -- even if the police acted illegally.

The most important element of police power, though, is not authority to search, but authority in the community. Like school teachers, Japanese policemen rate high in public esteem, especially in the countryside. Community leaders and role models, the police are trained in calligraphy and Haiku composition. In police per capita, Japan far outranks all other major democracies.

15,000 koban "police boxes" are located throughout the cities. Citizens go to the 24-hour-a-day boxes not only for street directions, but to complain about day-to-day problems, such as noisy neighbors, or to ask advice on how to raise children. Some of the policemen and their families live in the boxes. Police box officers clear 74.6% of all criminal cases cleared. Police box officers also spend time teaching neighborhood youth judo or calligraphy. The officers even hand- write their own newspapers, with information about crime and accidents, "stories about good deeds by children, and opinions of
residents."

The police box system contrasts sharply with the practice in America. Here, most departments adopt a policy of "stranger policing." To prevent corruption, police are frequently rotated from one neighborhood to another. But as federal judge Charles Silberman writes, "the cure is worse than the disease, for officers develop no sense of identification with their beats, hence no emotional stake in improving the quality of life there."

Thus, the U.S. citizenry does not develop a supportive relationship with the police. One poll showed that 60% of police officers believe "it is difficult to persuade people to give patrolmen the information they need."

The Japanese police do not spend all their time in the koban boxes. As the Japanese government puts it: "Home visit is one of the most important duties of officers assigned to police boxes." Making annual visits to each home in their beat, officers keep track of who lives where, and which family member to contact in case of emergency. The police also check on all gun licensees, to make sure no gun has been stolen or misused, that the gun is securely stored, and that the licensees are emotionally stable.

Gun banners might rejoice at a society where the police keep such a sharp eye on citizens' guns. But the price is that the police keep an eye on everything.

Policemen are apt to tell people reading sexually-oriented magazines to read something more worthwhile. Japan's major official year-end police report includes statistics like "Background and Motives for Girls' Sexual Misconduct." In 1985, the police determined that 37.4% of the girls had been seduced, and the rest had had sex "voluntarily." For the volunteers, 19.6% acted "out of curiosity", while for 18.1%, the motive was "liked particular boy." The year-end police report also includes sections on labor demands, and on anti-nuclear or anti-military demonstrations.

 

[2aguy]

Moron.....you have no idea what you are talking about...

Public Health Pot Shots

this article goes at kellerman extensively and his crap research.....and here is some work on who actually kills people...

I didn't even bring up Kellerman and how you are 43 times more likely to be killed by a gun in your home than to kill a bad guy with that gun.

But it still is there. A gun in the home is more dangerous than you than the bad guys...

Moron, you have been shown that kellerman was lying, over and over again.

He holds onto Kellerman like a baby clutches their pacifier.

And he does so after being shown that kellerman changed that number because his methods were exposed as dumb....and even then he still used flawed methods........and that idiot clings to him because it is all he has...

 

[JoeB131]

Lanza was an oddity. Most of our nuts are tired of being invisible or picked on. In Japan acting out like that would likely lose your family their jobs and be shunned. You would speak to the grocer and he would stare straight ahead as if not hearing you. Or would talk to the person next to you about how awful your family was.

yeah, I'm sure you read that somewhere...

Reality- Japan doesn't have these problems because they can't get guns... this isn't fucking complicated.

Wrong, long prison sentences and a conformist culture....

Japan only locks up 69,000 people. We lock up 2 million. If Prisons were the answer, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the Industrialized world, not the highest.

Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics?

Yes. Yes, we do. No Guns. No crime.

 

[JoeB131]

Japan has a police state, and a culture that punishes law breaking and norm breaking...

Really?

They lock up 69,000 People. Their cops not only don't shoot supsects, even taking their guns out of their holsters is a rarity.

We lock up 2 million people and our cops shoot 1200 people a year. And unless they get caught on tape shooting someone in the back or while he's lying on the ground, they usually get away with it.

I'd take their "Police State" over ours any day.

 

[JoeB131]

And he does so after being shown that kellerman changed that number because his methods were exposed as dumb....and even then he still used flawed methods........and that idiot clings to him because it is all he has...

Kellerman got it right...it's why you guys banned the CDC from doing any more gun studies... Not because he got it wrong, but because any other studies would have found the same result.

 

[JoeB131]

By no means does this article suggest that neighbors saw Ms. Lanza as crazy, nuts or mentally or emotionally unstable. On the contrary, overall neighbor testimony paints a picture of a devoted but stressed mother struggling to care for an autistic child with learning and developmental disorders that she had had to deal with for twenty years, the last four by herself and with little help from the boy’s father.

Okay, buddy, I realize that you think weird obession with guns is normal... but to most people, stocking up on guns like the Zombies are coming is crazy.

Any parent will tell you that raising children is the greatest challenge in life. Any parent of an autistic child will tell you that the usual child-raising challenges are magnified tenfold with an autistic child, with about a hundred other challenges thrown in.

Any parent would tell you, you don't leave A FUCKING MACHINE GUN lying around the house when you have a kid that disturbed... except Crazy Nancy, she thought that was fine.

 

[2aguy]

Lanza was an oddity. Most of our nuts are tired of being invisible or picked on. In Japan acting out like that would likely lose your family their jobs and be shunned. You would speak to the grocer and he would stare straight ahead as if not hearing you. Or would talk to the person next to you about how awful your family was.

yeah, I'm sure you read that somewhere...

Reality- Japan doesn't have these problems because they can't get guns... this isn't fucking complicated.

Wrong, long prison sentences and a conformist culture....

Japan only locks up 69,000 people. We lock up 2 million. If Prisons were the answer, we'd have the lowest crime rates in the Industrialized world, not the highest.

Robbery in Japan is about as rare as murder. Japan's annual robbery rate is 1.8 per 100,000 inhabitants; America's is 205.4. Do the gun banners have the argument won when they point to these statistics?

Yes. Yes, we do. No Guns. No crime.

Their criminals can get guns.......moron.

The Great Japanese Gang Wars



The season for pineapples (yakuza slang for hand grenades) may finally be over. Jake Adelstein and Nathalie-Kyoko Stucky on the bloody, seven-year battle between the Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai.



In Southern Japan, the brutal pineapple season may finally be over; pineapple is yakuza slang for “hand grenade”—one of the many weapons utilized in a seven-year gang war between the Dojin-kai (1,000 members) and the splinter group the Kyushu Seido-kei (500 members).

----
---
The Gangs That Couldn’t Shoot Straight
The Dojin-kai and the Seido-kai are Kyushu-based yakuza gangs, once part of the same faction founded in 1971 in Kurume, Fukuoka Prefecture, by Isoji Koga. When the second generation Dojin-kai boss Seijiro Matsuo retired in May 2006, there was a fight over succession, and the group split into two factions, sparking a bloody gang war—where escalation seemed a matter of course.

It started with shootings and bombs being thrown, and before it ended, the two gangs were lobbing grenades and Molotov cocktails, shooting machine guns, and sometimes attacking their own men.
-----
In May, a 9-year-old child found a hand grenade in a rice field in Iizuka, Fukuoka Prefecture, and took it home, to the astonishment of his father, who handed it over to the local police. According to the police, there were no yakuza headquarters where the grenade was found.

The numbers of grenades used and seized in the war became so problematic that by April 2012, the Fukuoka Prefecture Police became the first in Japan to offer cash rewards to anyone who reported finding a hand grenade.

 

[2aguy]

And he does so after being shown that kellerman changed that number because his methods were exposed as dumb....and even then he still used flawed methods........and that idiot clings to him because it is all he has...

Kellerman got it right...it's why you guys banned the CDC from doing any more gun studies... Not because he got it wrong, but because any other studies would have found the same result.

Kellerman changed his number and did the research over, you doofus. You were shown this over and over again...........the CDC was never banned from doing research, you have been shown this over and over again......

You keep lying because the facts, truth and reality are not on your side.

 

[2aguy]

By no means does this article suggest that neighbors saw Ms. Lanza as crazy, nuts or mentally or emotionally unstable. On the contrary, overall neighbor testimony paints a picture of a devoted but stressed mother struggling to care for an autistic child with learning and developmental disorders that she had had to deal with for twenty years, the last four by herself and with little help from the boy’s father.

Okay, buddy, I realize that you think weird obession with guns is normal... but to most people, stocking up on guns like the Zombies are coming is crazy.

Any parent will tell you that raising children is the greatest challenge in life. Any parent of an autistic child will tell you that the usual child-raising challenges are magnified tenfold with an autistic child, with about a hundred other challenges thrown in.

Any parent would tell you, you don't leave A FUCKING MACHINE GUN lying around the house when you have a kid that disturbed... except Crazy Nancy, she thought that was fine.

She didn't, they were locked up, he killed her to get access to the rifles and shotguns. And none of them were machine guys you lying asshat.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

By no means does this article suggest that neighbors saw Ms. Lanza as crazy, nuts or mentally or emotionally unstable. On the contrary, overall neighbor testimony paints a picture of a devoted but stressed mother struggling to care for an autistic child with learning and developmental disorders that she had had to deal with for twenty years, the last four by herself and with little help from the boy’s father.

Okay, buddy, I realize that you think weird obession with guns is normal... but to most people, stocking up on guns like the Zombies are coming is crazy.

You don’t know that she was “stocking up“ for anything and the neighbors never alluded to this. All they said was that she was a gun enthusiast.

There are lots of gun enthusiasts out there and her neighbors specifically mentioned in the article that YOU linked that there were many gun enthusiasts in that area.
Your typical gun enthusiast is merely interested in things like ballistics, range, accuracy and they do nothing more than shoot them for sport. Which is precisely what Nancy Lanza did with hers.

Any parent will tell you that raising children is the greatest challenge in life. Any parent of an autistic child will tell you that the usual child-raising challenges are magnified tenfold with an autistic child, with about a hundred other challenges thrown in.

Any parent would tell you, you don't leave A FUCKING MACHINE GUN lying around the house when you have a kid that disturbed... except Crazy Nancy, she thought that was fine.

Irrelevant. The fact remains that the neighbors did not say or imply in any way that she was crazy and your own article proved that. She was clearly stressed at having to deal with her autistic son and nothing more. Your hatred of gun owners is such that you couldn’t even bring yourself to allow for that possibility, even knowing the boy was autistic.

At most we can fault Nancy Lanza for poor judgment. But nothing about this case indicates that she herself was crazy or unbalanced.

You’ve made some rather Olympian leaps in assumptions to arrive at your conclusions and opinions and as a result, you’ve been wrong about pretty much everything you’ve said in this discussion.

 

[JoeB131]

Their criminals can get guns.......moron.

I'm sure they can. So fucking what.

I'm not worried about "the criminals". The criminals are mostly rational. They only kill each other if they kill at all, and they know killing will bring undue attention on them.

I worry about the disaffected nut who shoots up a theater or a mall or a school.