Supreme Court Allows Sandy Hook Families' Case Against Remington Arms To Proceed

[JoeB131]

I think the reason we are seeing more? The breakdown of the family, and more fatherless homes......most of the shooters....almost all, lacked fathers in the home, then add to that 24/7 media coverage, and social media which gives shooters a fame they didn't have before......

You forgot the French rock concert attack....130 killed by terrorists with fully automatic military rifles, pistols and grenades, terrorists who were already on French government, terrorist watch lists.....

Also, just recently, the Russian Polytechnic shooting, 20 killed, 40 injured with a pump action, 5 shot, shotgun....

Again, Dick Tiny, not much you can do about organized terrorist groups, who have almost unlimited resources. We are in Year 19 of a "War on Terror". If we could limit it to just organized terrorists, we'd only have one of these incidents every few years...

Instead, any gun nut with a tiny dick can walk into a gun store, and walk out with the ability to launch a major attack on a school or a theater...

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Right. Given to you by a group of people who, when they also give you the right to bear arms, are suddenly a bunch of “slave rapists”. You’re full of shit.

The Second Amendment was about Militias, not gun ownership. Since we've replaced militias with a Standing Army and Police forces, it's no longer operative.

Irrelevant. You have no problem enjoying all the other rights and liberties they gave you and in fact you most likely agree and see them as fundamental. But then they gave you the right to bear arms and now they’re a bunch of slave rapists.

Like I said, you’re full of shit.

Oh, yeah, and these were the same guys who said, "All Men are Created Equal" and then went home and lived large off the labor of their slaves. Thomas Jefferson raped the shit out of Sally Hemmings because she had the bad luck to be his dead wife's half sister and kind of looked like her

If you feel that way about them, why not move to say, North Korea where you don’t have to suffer under under their oppressive and wicked liberties?

In reality, they wouldn’t have needed to sensationalize anyway because everyone had a liberal aneurism and threw objectivity right out the window the moment they saw the MAGA hat.

Naw, we drew a conclusion when we saw a smirking little punk taunting an Native American veteran... the problem was, instead of slapping the kid silly and making him apologize, they got him lawyers and PR people to rehabilitate him.

It’s already been proven to you that Phillips got in Sandmann’s face and that Sandmann did not know Phillips was a veteran.

Are you just trolling me with this shit? Nobody can be that fucking stupid as to believe what you believe about that incident with all the video and photo evidence that proves the exact opposite.

Guns are merely a tool and are incapable of killing unless someone picks it up and uses it for that purpose.
So the question is, why are we seeing an upsurge in mass shootings now, in the last twenty years or so, when the semiautomatic rifle has been around and available to consumers for eighty to a hundred years?

Because the gun industry if flooding the market with them, and pitching them to the most unstable people.

Irrelevant and incorrect. The mere existence and civilian ownership of semiautomatic rifles cannot be a factor if there were virtually no mass shootings for the first 2/3s of the period of their availability.

A semiautomatic rifle is an inanimate object and a tool and cannot kill unless it is used with that intent. So why is there such a spike in murderous intent in the last twenty years? Have you even asked that question?

In 1950, there were only 40 million guns in private hands, most of them bolt action and revolvers...Then this funny thing happened. Hunting fell out of favor because, hey, Animal Cruelty is so uncool. The Gun Industry had a problem. Sales were declining. Gun ownership was declining. What ever shall we do?

Hunting is not animal cruelty if you eat what you kill. Unless you’re saying that a cheetah killing a gazelle is animal cruelty, this is nothing more than contempt for gun owners.

Also, hunting probably fell off because as we became more prosperous with more jobs, hunting was no longer needed to supplement food stores.

I know, they said. Let's market to the crazies. You see, in the 1960's, the NRA supported tough gun laws. When the Black Panthers started walking around openly brandishing guns, the NRA helped government pass sensible gun control laws. Then in the 1970's, Wayne LaPeirre and the other nuts took over the NRA, and the Gun Industry decided that they really needed to sell AR-15 to Nancy Lanza and her sort.

*chuckle*

Need I go on? There are many more examples but I think you get the point.

.

Yes, when you have sensible gun control, these incidents are rare and only pulled off by organized terrorist groups.

That’s not what you said. You said they DON’T happen in countries with common sense gun laws.

We have them happen a bunch of times a year, usually any nut who forgot to take his meds can become a menace.

Usually any idiot who forgets that drinking and driving are against the law can become a menace.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

The attacks in Europe and elsewhere are almost always driven by political or religious ideals whereas in the U.S., a common thread seems to be depression and other mental problems.

No, the common thread in the US is that they can walk down to a store and the nice man behind the counter will sell them enough guns to fight off the Zombie Apocalypse...

You just said in the other post that any NUT who forgot to take his meds...

Semiautomatic firearms have been available since the early part of the twentieth century, long before mass shootings became a thing. So no, simply being able to walk down the street and purchase them from the nice man does not explain the upsurge in mass shootings.

 

[2aguy]

The attacks in Europe and elsewhere are almost always driven by political or religious ideals whereas in the U.S., a common thread seems to be depression and other mental problems.

No, the common thread in the US is that they can walk down to a store and the nice man behind the counter will sell them enough guns to fight off the Zombie Apocalypse...

You just said in the other post that any NUT who forgot to take his meds...

Semiautomatic firearms have been available since the early part of the twentieth century, long before mass shootings became a thing. So no, simply being able to walk down the street and purchase them from the nice man does not explain the upsurge in mass shootings.

And as joe refuses to recognize.....600 million guns in this country, 12 mass public shootings.

12 guns out of 600 million....

 

[JoeB131]

Irrelevant. You have no problem enjoying all the other rights and liberties they gave you and in fact you most likely agree and see them as fundamental. But then they gave you the right to bear arms and now they’re a bunch of slave rapists.

Like I said, you’re full of shit.

Naw, man, I'm all for well-regulated Militias, but the fact is, private gun ownership is as unneeded today as a rule that you can't quarter troops in your house in peacetime.

Are you just trolling me with this shit? Nobody can be that fucking stupid as to believe what you believe about that incident with all the video and photo evidence that proves the exact opposite.

Whatever, guy. . We all saw a smirking little punk.

Irrelevant and incorrect. The mere existence and civilian ownership of semiautomatic rifles cannot be a factor if there were virtually no mass shootings for the first 2/3s of the period of their availability.

Except they weren't that available. They only really started marketing them to civilians in the 1990's, and that's when the mass shootings started.

Hunting is not animal cruelty if you eat what you kill. Unless you’re saying that a cheetah killing a gazelle is animal cruelty, this is nothing more than contempt for gun owners.

Also, hunting probably fell off because as we became more prosperous with more jobs, hunting was no longer needed to supplement food stores.

Nope, it fell off and became the sport of Rednecks because it's cruel.

Period.

Semiautomatic firearms have been available since the early part of the twentieth century, long before mass shootings became a thing. So no, simply being able to walk down the street and purchase them from the nice man does not explain the upsurge in mass shootings.

Um, guy, they weren't available to civilians until the 1990's, when the NRA and their pals started marketing them to the Tiny Dick Crowd.

And as joe refuses to recognize.....600 million guns in this country, 12 mass public shootings.

12 guns out of 600 million....

Your numbers get sillier with each post. Eventually you'll claim it's a Billion guns and negative mass shootings.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Irrelevant. You have no problem enjoying all the other rights and liberties they gave you and in fact you most likely agree and see them as fundamental. But then they gave you the right to bear arms and now they’re a bunch of slave rapists.

Like I said, you’re full of shit.

Naw, man, I'm all for well-regulated Militias, but the fact is, private gun ownership is as unneeded today as a rule that you can't quarter troops in your house in peacetime.

You’ve already said we don’t need militias with a standing army. You’re just arguing to argue at this point.

Are you just trolling me with this shit? Nobody can be that fucking stupid as to believe what you believe about that incident with all the video and photo evidence that proves the exact opposite.

Whatever, guy. . We all saw a smirking little punk.

No, you saw a smirking punk. But even if he was, everything else you believe about that incident is patently false:

Phillips was not with a veterans group that day;

Sandmann did not know Phillips was a veteran and had no way of knowing this;

Phillips instigated the entire thing and deliberately placed himself in Sandmann’s face when he had no business being there.

Sandmann never left the main group to harass the NA group or even the Black Israelites. When Phillips got in his face, he was right where he had been the whole time.

Irrelevant and incorrect. The mere existence and civilian ownership of semiautomatic rifles cannot be a factor if there were virtually no mass shootings for the first 2/3s of the period of their availability.

Except they weren't that available. They only really started marketing them to civilians in the 1990's, and that's when the mass shootings started.

According to the list of mass shootings in the U.S. compiled by the Mother Jones website, there were a total of twenty three mass shootings in the 90s and of these, only 4 involved a military style semiautomatic rifle and none of them were ARs.

Hunting is not animal cruelty if you eat what you kill. Unless you’re saying that a cheetah killing a gazelle is animal cruelty, this is nothing more than contempt for gun owners.

Also, hunting probably fell off because as we became more prosperous with more jobs, hunting was no longer needed to supplement food stores.

Nope, it fell off and became the sport of Rednecks because it's cruel.

Period.

Idiot.

Semiautomatic firearms have been available since the early part of the twentieth century, long before mass shootings became a thing. So no, simply being able to walk down the street and purchase them from the nice man does not explain the upsurge in mass shootings.

Um, guy, they weren't available to civilians until the 1990's, when the NRA and their pals started marketing them to the Tiny Dick Crowd.

Um, guy, Google “semiautomatic rifles for civilian use” and you’ll see that they’ve been available to and used by civilians since the early 1900s.

And as joe refuses to recognize.....600 million guns in this country, 12 mass public shootings.

12 guns out of 600 million....

Your numbers get sillier with each post. Eventually you'll claim it's a Billion guns and negative mass shootings.

I can’t help but notice that you don’t cite different numbers to refute his, you just keep repeating that his numbers are bogus. Do you actually have a source for different numbers or do you just not like what the real numbers are?

 

[JoeB131]

Phillips instigated the entire thing and deliberately placed himself in Sandmann’s face when he had no business being there.

Yes, how dare that person of color interrupt his Entitled White Privilege!!!!

Go fuck yourself.

According to the list of mass shootings in the U.S. compiled by the Mother Jones website, there were a total of twenty three mass shootings in the 90s and of these, only 4 involved a military style semiautomatic rifle and none of them were ARs.

That site has been discredited... I know your boy Dick Tiny likes to use it, but we had more mass shooting back then than that.

I can’t help but notice that you don’t cite different numbers to refute his, you just keep repeating that his numbers are bogus. Do you actually have a source for different numbers or do you just not like what the real numbers are?

Posted them dozens of times, don't feel like posting them again. Dick Tiny doesn't post sources either.

 

[2aguy]

Phillips instigated the entire thing and deliberately placed himself in Sandmann’s face when he had no business being there.

Yes, how dare that person of color interrupt his Entitled White Privilege!!!!

Go fuck yourself.

According to the list of mass shootings in the U.S. compiled by the Mother Jones website, there were a total of twenty three mass shootings in the 90s and of these, only 4 involved a military style semiautomatic rifle and none of them were ARs.

That site has been discredited... I know your boy Dick Tiny likes to use it, but we had more mass shooting back then than that.

I can’t help but notice that you don’t cite different numbers to refute his, you just keep repeating that his numbers are bogus. Do you actually have a source for different numbers or do you just not like what the real numbers are?

Posted them dozens of times, don't feel like posting them again. Dick Tiny doesn't post sources either.

No, we didn't...I post all of my sources. From the CDC, FBI and Mother Jones to any other number of places like Pew, to show you have no idea what you are talking about...

 

[2aguy]

Phillips instigated the entire thing and deliberately placed himself in Sandmann’s face when he had no business being there.

Yes, how dare that person of color interrupt his Entitled White Privilege!!!!

Go fuck yourself.

According to the list of mass shootings in the U.S. compiled by the Mother Jones website, there were a total of twenty three mass shootings in the 90s and of these, only 4 involved a military style semiautomatic rifle and none of them were ARs.

That site has been discredited... I know your boy Dick Tiny likes to use it, but we had more mass shooting back then than that.

I can’t help but notice that you don’t cite different numbers to refute his, you just keep repeating that his numbers are bogus. Do you actually have a source for different numbers or do you just not like what the real numbers are?

Posted them dozens of times, don't feel like posting them again. Dick Tiny doesn't post sources either.

That site has been discredited... I know your boy Dick Tiny likes to use it, but we had more mass shooting back then than that.

Wow...you say, "It has been discredited," and whamo, you assume, like an ass, that what you say will be taken as truth....you are wrong....

Mother Jones uses the actual definition of mass public shootings, though I think actual terrorist attacks shouldn't be included....that is a different category of shooting.....but here, you dumb ass...

US Mass Shootings, 1982-2015: Data From Mother Jones' Investigation

2018... 12

2017: 11 ( 5 according to the old standard)

2016....6

2015....4 ( obama's new standard....7)

2014....2 (4)

2013....5

2012....7

2011....3

2010....1

2009....4

2008....3

2007....4

2006....3

2005...2

2004....1

2003...1

2002 not listed so more than likely 0

2001....1

2000....1

1999....5

1998...3

1997....2

1996....1

1995...1

1994...1

1993...4

1992...2

1991...3

1990...1

1989...2

1988....1

1987...1

1986...1

1985... not listed so probably 0

1984...2

1983...not listed so probably 0

1982...1

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Phillips instigated the entire thing and deliberately placed himself in Sandmann’s face when he had no business being there.

Yes, how dare that person of color interrupt his Entitled White Privilege!!!!

Go fuck yourself.

What does Phillip's ethnicity have to do with any of this other than that he happened to be with a Native American group? If you can show me through logic and critical thinking that his being an NA has any relevance, I'll take your advice and go fuck myself. What do you say, are you up to the challenge?

According to the list of mass shootings in the U.S. compiled by the Mother Jones website, there were a total of twenty three mass shootings in the 90s and of these, only 4 involved a military style semiautomatic rifle and none of them were ARs.

That site has been discredited... I know your boy Dick Tiny likes to use it, but we had more mass shooting back then than that.

Okay, how about this one: List of mass shootings in the United States - Wikipedia

This Wikipedia article lists twenty nine shootings in the nineties. From this list, only five weapons were semiautomatic rifles of calibers higher than .22 and one was an "Uzi-type" submachine gun, which is against the law. And again, there were no ARs used during this period.

And just in case you have a problem with Wikipedia, here's another one from Fortune.com: This Is Every Mass Shooting in the U.S. Since 1949

This article lists all the shootings from 1949 to today and lists all the same shootings from the nineties as the one from Wikipedia and the numbers are the same: 29 shootings - 5 semiautomatic rifles of military calibers.

The bulk of the shootings at that time were committed with semiautomatic pistols and surprisingly, a lot of those were .22s. A good portion of the rifles during that time were .22s as well.

I can’t help but notice that you don’t cite different numbers to refute his, you just keep repeating that his numbers are bogus. Do you actually have a source for different numbers or do you just not like what the real numbers are?

Posted them dozens of times, don't feel like posting them again. Dick Tiny doesn't post sources either.

Probably from a left wingnut site too.

 

[hjmick]

I'll give you this... Joe sure has posted some of the funniest, and most ignorant, missives in this thread...

 

[JoeB131]

Wow...you say, "It has been discredited," and whamo, you assume, like an ass, that what you say will be taken as truth....you are wrong....

Again, no one believes that we only have a handful of mass shootings a year. You look silly claiming it.

Here's a list of mass shooting so far this year.

Mass Shootings in 2019 | Gun Violence Archive

 

[JoeB131]

What does Phillip's ethnicity have to do with any of this other than that he happened to be with a Native American group? I

Um, I think you just answered your own question.

Okay, how about this one:

Wiki? That's pathetic..

Probably from a left wingnut site too.

The problem is with you Wingnuts is that you try to deny a mass shooting is a mass shooting. Not enough people die? Not a mass shooting. People of color? They don't fucking count.

 

[JoeB131]

I'll give you this... Joe sure has posted some of the funniest, and most ignorant, missives in this thread...

33,000 gun deaths. 70,000 gun injuries. $270 BILLION in gun related economic losses.

I'm glad you think this is funny. I don't.

 

[2aguy]

Wow...you say, "It has been discredited," and whamo, you assume, like an ass, that what you say will be taken as truth....you are wrong....

Again, no one believes that we only have a handful of mass shootings a year. You look silly claiming it.

Here's a list of mass shooting so far this year.

Mass Shootings in 2019 | Gun Violence Archive

The gun violence archive...you dope....they add every gang banger shooting at a pool party in their numbers, you moron...those are not mass public shootings you idiot.

 

[2aguy]

I'll give you this... Joe sure has posted some of the funniest, and most ignorant, missives in this thread...

33,000 gun deaths. 70,000 gun injuries. $270 BILLION in gun related economic losses.

I'm glad you think this is funny. I don't.

Guns save more lives....and again, you throw in suicide to hide the fact that your numbers are too small to counter the lives saved...

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct


that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.




==============
Annual Defensive Gun Use Savings Dwarf Study's "Gun Violence" Costs - The Truth About Guns

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.
--------
It’s one of the antis’ favorite tricks: cost benefit analysis omitting the benefit side of the equation. So what are the financial benefits of firearm ownership to society? Read on . . .
In my post Dennis Henigan on Chardon: Clockwork Edition, I did an analysis of how many lives were saved annually in Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs). I used extremely conservative numbers. Now I am going to use some less conservative ones.
--------------
How can we get a dollar figure from 1.88 million defensive gun uses per year? Never fear, faithful reader, we can count on the .gov to calculate everything.
According to the AZ state government, in February of 2008 a human life was worth $6.5 million. Going to the Inflation Calculator and punching in the numbers gives us a present value of $6.93 million.
So figuring that the average DGU saves one half of a person’s life—as “gun violence” predominantly affects younger demographics—that gives us $3.465 million per half life.

Putting this all together, we find that the monetary benefit of guns (by way of DGUs) is roughly $1.02 trillion per year. That’s trillion. With a ‘T’.

I was going to go on and calculate the costs of incarceration ($50K/year) saved by people killing 1527 criminals annually, and then look at the lifetime cost to society of an average criminal (something in excess of $1 million). But all of that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the $1,000,000,000,000 ($1T) annual benefit of gun ownership.

When compared to the (inflation adjusted from 2002) $127.5 billion ‘cost’ of gun violence calculated by by our Ludwig-Cook buddies, guns save a little more than eight times what they “cost.”
Which, I might add, is completely irrelevant since “the freedom to own and carry the weapon of your choice is a natural, fundamental, and inalienable human, individual, civil, and Constitutional right — subject neither to the democratic process nor to arguments grounded in social utility.”
So even taking Motherboard’s own total and multiplying it by 100, the benefits to society of civilian gun ownership dwarf the associated costs.

 

[2aguy]

I'll give you this... Joe sure has posted some of the funniest, and most ignorant, missives in this thread...

33,000 gun deaths. 70,000 gun injuries. $270 BILLION in gun related economic losses.

I'm glad you think this is funny. I don't.

Moron....more guns = less gun murder....

Over the last 26 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.


The anti-gun hypothesis and argument.....

More Guns = More Gun crime regardless of any other factors.

Actual Result:

In the U.S....as more Americans own and carry guns over the last 26 years, gun murder down 49%, gun crime down 75%, violent crime down 72%

The result: Exact opposite of theory of anti-gunners....

In Science when you have a theory, when that theory is tested....and the exact opposite result happens...that means your theory is wrong. That is science....not left wing wishful thinking.



Whatever the crime rate does......as more Americans owned more guns the crime rate did not go up....so again...



Britain...
More Guns = More Gun Crime
Britain had access to guns before they banned them.....they had low gun crime, low gun murder.
They banned guns, the gun murder rate spiked for 10 years then returned to the same level...
Your Theory again....
More guns = More Gun Crime
Guns Banned creates no change? That means banning guns for law abiding gun owners had no effect on gun crime.
When your theory states one thing, and you implement your theory, and nothing changes....in science, that means your theory is wrong...
-------

Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.

 

[JoeB131]

The gun violence archive...you dope....they add every gang banger shooting at a pool party in their numbers, you moron...those are not mass public shootings you idiot.

See, you made my point. "That mass shooting doesn't count, it's only black people".

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

What does Phillip's ethnicity have to do with any of this other than that he happened to be with a Native American group? I

Um, I think you just answered your own question.

Um, no, I did not. His being there with a Native American group was circumstantial. That's why I asked the question. So, what did his ethnicity have to do with the events of that day, beyond the circumstantial aspect?

Okay, how about this one:

Wiki? That's pathetic..

You did notice I posted the Fortune.com article and that I specifically pointed out that I posted it because I knew you might say something just like this about the Wiki article, right? So, no comment about the Fortune article?

Probably from a left wingnut site too.

The problem is with you Wingnuts is that you try to deny a mass shooting is a mass shooting. Not enough people die? Not a mass shooting. People of color? They don't fucking count.

If you had bothered to look - and I know goddamned well you didn't - you would have seen that the Fortune, Wiki and Mother Jones lists had all the mass shootings with body counts from 58 (Las Vegas) all the way down to 3.

And "people of color"? What the fuck are you talking about?

You have more of an obsession with race than most racists do. Which leads me to believe that you are guilty of your own brand of racism. You seem to view minorities as helpless children who are not responsible for their own actions.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The problem is with you Wingnuts is that you try to deny a mass shooting is a mass shooting. Not enough people die? Not a mass shooting.

That's kind of the definition of a •MASS• shooting.

People of color? They don't fucking count.

Yours is the only side that ever claims that.

The gun violence archive...you dope....they add every gang banger shooting at a pool party in their numbers, you moron...those are not mass public shootings you idiot.

See, you made my point. "That mass shooting doesn't count, it's only black people".

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Who is it, here, that is assuming that murderous criminal gang members are always black?