Tax the Rich: Fix Jobs and Deficits

[Steelplate]

You can't tax rich people. They make jobs. Remember those trillions in Bush tax cuts? Look at all the jobs they created in China from 2001 to 2008. We're next.

That's right... They are Communist sympathizers and all of them ought to be deported to China... their citizenship revoked and their assets confiscated and dispersed to real Americans who want to build from within.

 

[initforme]

Well if we are going to give the corporations tax breaks to create jobs then I say we send a watchdog over to them and make sure those jobs are being created. If they arent, there goes the tax break. Just like what is being done to the middle class. I will volunteer to be the watchdog and create the havoc in the biggest of the corporations. Hire meeeeeeee!

 

[Steelplate]

Well if we are going to give the corporations tax breaks to create jobs then I say we send a watchdog over to them and make sure those jobs are being created. If they arent, there goes the tax break. Just like what is being done to the middle class. I will volunteer to be the watchdog and create the havoc in the biggest of the corporations. Hire meeeeeeee!

Actually, I like your idea. Just like we need accountability in Washington, we also need accountability with our business and banking community.

I'm sorry... but loyalty to our country and MORE IMPORTANTLY.... It's Citizens, is paramount to our country recovering.

Think about it... what will do the country more service? 1 Million people making over $1M/year that have a crazy number of ways to avoid paying taxes on it.... or a large middle class..... ohhhhh 100M or so....that make somewhere between $80-150k that doesn't have those same abilities?

The problem is that we are on a downward spiral when it comes to our "working people". Our Executive/owner class seems to think that they deserve it all, even at the expense of the general workforce. What seems to have gotten lost is that when you empower our working class... THAT'S when everyone benefits. More disposable income for more people inspires growth through REAL Demand... not "anticipated" demand that is backed by slick marketing campaigns and legislative influence.

Make working worth it again, and you will see a strong country.

 

[initforme]

But right away some of the pro corporate people would cry and sob "thats just more regulation." To that I say "how much is enough"? Those are the same people who hate people who work hard for a most modest wage. Emphasize the word "hate"

 

[FiscalSanity]

Taxing the rich is a waste of time, and won't generate any more revenue then the government already takes in. In case you hadn't noticed, the governments never manages to collect more then 18% of GDP in revenues no matter what the tax levels are at, and that the higher the rates are the lower the percentage collected.

It's really not hard to figure out folks. You raise the rate by 5% on someone thats making 10 million a year and it's cheaper for them to spend $100,000 for accountant to find them a loophole then it is to pay the $500,000 in tax. I don't specialize in income taxes, but I am an accountant, and I know the income tax accountants motto- For every rule there is an exception, and for every tax there is a shelter.

Raise taxes to your hearts content, but the government will never see a dime of it. I'll appreciate the raises it allows me to demand as the average salary for accountants goes up across the board though.

 

[Steelplate]

Taxing the rich is a waste of time, and won't generate any more revenue then the government already takes in. In case you hadn't noticed, the governments never manages to collect more then 18% of GDP in revenues no matter what the tax levels are at, and that the higher the rates are the lower the percentage collected.

It's really not hard to figure out folks. You raise the rate by 5% on someone thats making 10 million a year and it's cheaper for them to spend $100,000 for accountant to find them a loophole then it is to pay the $500,000 in tax. I don't specialize in income taxes, but I am an accountant, and I know the income tax accountants motto- For every rule there is an exception, and for every tax there is a shelter.

Raise taxes to your hearts content, but the government will never see a dime of it. I'll appreciate the raises it allows me to demand as the average salary for accountants goes up across the board though.

And that's part of the problem.... maybe the solution isn't to raise the rates on the rich(wow... look at that, I'll freely admit it), but to eliminate crazy fucking loopholes for those that have the world by the ass?

 

[FiscalSanity]

Steel,

You got it in one. I don't care what the politicians set the rates at, as long as we have a tax code that's over a thousand pages long and that no individual actually understands completely there will always be something a smart accountant can use a tax shelter. For gods sake, there are tons of places where the tax laws directly contradict each other, which is why that quip about an exception to every rule is so popular in accounting circles.

Frankly, we need a tax code thats no more then 5 pages long and that can be understood by the average highschool graduate. I'd keep a FEW of the existing tax shelters (like charitable contributions), but the rest would go out the door, including the morgage interest and student loan interest deductions that I'm used to being able to take. No more special deductions for being married, having kids, being low income, etc, etc, etc. I'd use something like our existing sliding scale, but everyone would pay at least some income tax, unlike the way it works now. I'd probably advise you to keep the rate under 5% for anyone making under $20,000 a year with it gradually increasing to a cap of around 25-30% on individuals making over $250k/year. Speaking of which, there would be no such thing a a joint return.

The other major change I would make is to eliminate the entire concept of capital gains as some sort of "special" income. Profits on investments are income, pure and simple, and they should be treated just like any other income for determining what percentage your going to pay. Taxing them at 15% as they are currently is patently unfair to the vast majority of Americans that have to pay much higher rates on much lower incomes then big investors pull in.

 

[daveman]

Gee, one would think you'd be a little better at the concept of supply and demand with your impressive background...oh well.

So, what your business education and experience?

 

[The T]

You can't tax rich people. They make jobs. Remember those trillions in Bush tax cuts? Look at all the jobs they created in China from 2001 to 2008. We're next.

WTF do you mean WE are next? They are already there. Obama is seeing to it...Where the Hell have you been?

But you go on applauding your government that by their policies are making it happen in the New World Order...YOU are unknowingly applauding it.

Way to go stupid shit. Keep Blaming Repuiblicans.

 

[georgephillip]

So that's your excuse for being a lazy bastard?

Note the assumption that all rich people got their money by being corrupt. Liberals believe that because it's certainly true in the case of all Democrat politicians.

I am curious...

Exactly how did I become corrupt by grabbing onto a dream of being my own boss....putting together a business plan....incorporating myself....struggling for the first year as I marketed my services without earning an income.....worked as many as 7 days a week for that year...acheived mild success in my second year....but still had to work 7 days a week....grew my company as the demand for my services required the continued hiring of employees AT SALARIES THEY WERE EAGER TO ACCEPT....still worked 7 days a week as I entered my 4th year...hired more employees....took my first week vacation after the end of my 5th year while offering all of my employees 2 weeks vacation during their first year....3 weeks at the end of 5 years....re-invested my profits into the growth of my company so that by the ned of my 6th year, I was able to cut back to 6 days a week working...and now I am working 5 days a week...my employees are earning a living at salaries THEY ARE EAGER TO EARN....and I am socking away money for my retirement...with the exception of last year where SOME OF MY EMPLOYEES MADE MORE MONEY THAN I DID as the profits were thin.

Exactly what did I do that was corrupt? Not make my employees work 7 days a week as I did?
Or maybe it was the fact that I should not make a profit after risking my future by starting on my own?

Exactly what made me corrupt?

Small business owners are the hardest workers I've met during my six decades in the work force.

Are you curious about why government puts you in the same tax bracket as parasites "earning" a thousand times or more what you do?

Possibly it's the same reason government used your tax money to fund a $13 trillion bailout of many of the same parasites who are using your labor for cover in our great tax debate?

You may think you've earned enough and you've work hard enough and you're smart enough to hold on to the fruits of your labor.

Think again.
You're just another hard working slave to Wall Street.
And they will take everything you own and laugh all the way to the bank.

Especially if you're not corrupt.
That makes you a threat to capitalism.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Note the assumption that all rich people got their money by being corrupt. Liberals believe that because it's certainly true in the case of all Democrat politicians.

I am curious...

Exactly how did I become corrupt by grabbing onto a dream of being my own boss....putting together a business plan....incorporating myself....struggling for the first year as I marketed my services without earning an income.....worked as many as 7 days a week for that year...acheived mild success in my second year....but still had to work 7 days a week....grew my company as the demand for my services required the continued hiring of employees AT SALARIES THEY WERE EAGER TO ACCEPT....still worked 7 days a week as I entered my 4th year...hired more employees....took my first week vacation after the end of my 5th year while offering all of my employees 2 weeks vacation during their first year....3 weeks at the end of 5 years....re-invested my profits into the growth of my company so that by the ned of my 6th year, I was able to cut back to 6 days a week working...and now I am working 5 days a week...my employees are earning a living at salaries THEY ARE EAGER TO EARN....and I am socking away money for my retirement...with the exception of last year where SOME OF MY EMPLOYEES MADE MORE MONEY THAN I DID as the profits were thin.

Exactly what did I do that was corrupt? Not make my employees work 7 days a week as I did?
Or maybe it was the fact that I should not make a profit after risking my future by starting on my own?

Exactly what made me corrupt?

Small business owners are the hardest workers I've met during my six decades in the work force.

Are you curious about why government puts you in the same tax bracket as parasites "earning" a thousand times or more what you do?

Possibly it's the same reason government used your tax money to fund a $13 trillion bailout of many of the same parasites who are using your labor for cover in our great tax debate?

You may think you've earned enough and you've work hard enough and you're smart enough to hold on to the fruits of your labor.

Think again.
You're just another hard working slave to Wall Street.
And they will take everything you own and laugh all the way to the bank.

Especially if you're not corrupt.
That makes you a threat to capitalism.

Tax money did not fund a $13 trillion bailout. Your math is weak.

 

[oreo]

Since DC Democrats and Republicans are tone deaf to anything that doesn't ring of corporate cash, it falls on workers to demand a massive public works program which can be funded by taxing corporations and the richest Americans at pre-Reagan levels.

"And it makes complete sense because the growing inequalities in wealth over the past three decades has meant a spectacular concentration of wealth at the top.

"The rich have plenty of money to spare."

Spare me the brain-dead conservative vomit about how hard the rich have "worked" for all their money.

The rich have the money because Republicans AND Democrats threw money at Wall Street banks and hedge funds instead of prosecuting the executives responsible for the biggest economic downturn since the Great Depression.

The rich have the money because their chief enabler, The Federal Reserve, has fueled a major commodity bubble "that may be in the midst of bursting, possibly triggering a double dip recession."

Throw in high unemployment which allows the rich to work remaining employees harder and thus increase profits and combine it with commodity speculation and you have the entire basis for a corporate recovery which both major parties tout as "proof" of economic "recovery."

It's another lie the rich tell.

When the Fed stops purchasing 60% of US Treasury bonds, a new creditor will have to step up. One that will probably demand significantly higher interest rates before loaning anymore money to the US Government.

Surprise, surprise - the rich win again!

They got all that free bail-out money which increased the deficit.
None of them went to prison for their crimes.
Their bottom lines are being enhanced by commodity speculation and high unemployment.
And now the rich want higher interest rates for investing in US Treasury Bonds.

"In (all) instances working people pay the bills."

The Rich Are Destroying the Economy | Common Dreams

There are 18,000 babyboomers entering social security/medicare DAILY and this will continue for another 15 years--resulting in another 64 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities on top of the 14.3 trillion in red ink we're at today. This results in $534,000.00 per household owed to the Federal Government.

I don't know how many TRILLIONAIRES you know--but frankly you could take all the WEALTH in this country--including your pay-check and not come up with enough money to pay this tab. Who is NOT addressing this issue and hasn't come up with a plan before this country goes BANKRUPT? Democrats.



1 billion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets.



1 trillion dollars--$100.00 bills stacked on palets--NOTE how small the man is in this chart.

"The problem with socialism is that government eventually runs out of other peoples money to spend"-- Margaret Thatcher

 

[Gadawg73]

If you folks do not know that with this President the business capital motto is "wait, hold and see" then you do NOT KNOW SHIT about business and capital investing.
No offense to anyone but that means NO $$$ is being sought after for capital investing thus no $$$ is being invested in capital investments. A la 1% CD rates and nothing being built.
And guess why?

 

[FA_Q2]

Pretty much says it all about where the money is, doesn't it?


​

No source and a chart that claims HALF of Americans earn less than 22K?? You are a hack and a liar.

Good let the fuckers move out of the country then... and take their citizenship with them. Most of them are nothing more than traitors anyway... Creating Jobs for a Communist and a bunch of Socialist Countries and leaving our own citizens to suffer the Consequences. Then when the shit hits the fan, they expect us taxpayers to pay for their ineptitude(Banking Industry).

And the liberals were so happy to oblige…

Interesting way that ideology seems to work.

Happy to oblige WHAT? IF you recall correctly.... the bank bailouts were voted down the first time around.... then through BIPARTISAN back room wheeling a dealing... the second vote got through.... so screw you with your "liberals happy to oblige" it was both sides with YOUR side leading the way.

Who let the jobs and money go all over the fucking world for pennies on the dollar labor costs?

The libs here vehemently support what we ‘had to do’ without hearing anything else. Thy constantly crone about how much it helped and how it saved us from the edge. The conservatives here are almost all against the insane act. Sure, Bush signed it and the republican congressman were part of passing it but that just shows how far BOTH parties have slid from what they are supposed to represent to becoming statists. You simply fail to understand how you’re playing into the republicrats statist’s wet dream.

Don’t parrot that the dems are not part of offshoring jobs either. Both parties are more than happy to sell your soul to slave labor. The problem is that you only complain when the republicans do it.

Steel,

You got it in one. I don't care what the politicians set the rates at, as long as we have a tax code that's over a thousand pages long and that no individual actually understands completely there will always be something a smart accountant can use a tax shelter. For gods sake, there are tons of places where the tax laws directly contradict each other, which is why that quip about an exception to every rule is so popular in accounting circles.

Frankly, we need a tax code thats no more then 5 pages long and that can be understood by the average highschool graduate. I'd keep a FEW of the existing tax shelters (like charitable contributions), but the rest would go out the door, including the morgage interest and student loan interest deductions that I'm used to being able to take. No more special deductions for being married, having kids, being low income, etc, etc, etc. I'd use something like our existing sliding scale, but everyone would pay at least some income tax, unlike the way it works now. I'd probably advise you to keep the rate under 5% for anyone making under $20,000 a year with it gradually increasing to a cap of around 25-30% on individuals making over $250k/year. Speaking of which, there would be no such thing a a joint return.

The other major change I would make is to eliminate the entire concept of capital gains as some sort of "special" income. Profits on investments are income, pure and simple, and they should be treated just like any other income for determining what percentage your going to pay. Taxing them at 15% as they are currently is patently unfair to the vast majority of Americans that have to pay much higher rates on much lower incomes then big investors pull in.

This is what are tax code should look like. There is no reason that our tax code is complex other than the failed social engineering experiments that never work and the corrupt political payoffs that are passed in exchange for campaign dollars. A simple, direct system that does not take into account where you make your money and does not allow you to avoid paying what you owe. The only other stipulation that I would like to see is the ratio of tax brackets and tax rates be constitutionally locked so that you can raise the rate but the ratios would be set. This would end much of the class warfare that we get today.

 

[skookerasbil]

Who gives a rats ass about this class warfare theory crap..........for all of Phillips philosophy, he has the political IQ of a handball.

The GOP is going to PWN the House for a decade.........

The 2010 Election and the Republican Redistricting Advantage | Suite101.com

..........and possibly more. Mega tax hikes are a pipe dream s0n, thought about only by the uber left, but politically, zero chance.



I thought this was a POLITICS forum s0ns???







Oreo my friend..........brilliant post up there!!!! Still not comprehended by the k00ks of course...........

 

[FiscalSanity]

Oreo,

Just curious. Do your figures factor in the number of social security and medicare recipients that are dying each day as well? If not the figures you are basing your arguments on need to be revised for accuracy. I'm not disagreeing about the need to reform medicare and social security, but until everyone involved with the issues stops playing numbers games and twisting statisics to fit their own theories we can't possibly begin to address the problem. You have to have real baseline numbers to work with before you can start to figure out what can be cut, what has to be cut, and what can't be cut.

 

[skookerasbil]

Oreo,

Just curious. Do your figures factor in the number of social security and medicare recipients that are dying each day as well? If not the figures you are basing your arguments on need to be revised for accuracy. I'm not disagreeing about the need to reform medicare and social security, but until everyone involved with the issues stops playing numbers games and twisting statisics to fit their own theories we can't possibly begin to address the problem. You have to have real baseline numbers to work with before you can start to figure out what can be cut, what has to be cut, and what can't be cut.

Holy Mother of God.........this guy ^^^ is either a paralegal or an attorney!!!


"real baseline numbers"

Stupendous at mucking things up with drivel.


Thats like saying, "Well........how do you know there really is alot of sand on this beach?"

 

[FiscalSanity]

Actually, I'm an accountant. We're much worse then attorneys. hehe

 

[The T]

Tell you what? The economy can be fixed if government gets out of the way, lifts restrictions, lessens taxation, and ceases spending more than it takes in. Watch it take off. You Statists won't have to worry of the so-called rich

 

[FiscalSanity]

Skooker,

Like it or not, the world floats on a sea of numbers, and you can't have a real discussion about anything until both sides can trust the numbers being discussed. Accountants tend to talk the way we do because the only way to pin people down when it comes to money is to be so specific that they don't have any wiggle room.

Edit- It might sound like drivel to you, but to accountants and anyone with a finance background the language being used is very, very specific.