Tea Party Narrow Echo Chamber Endangering Economy

[Rshermr]

Oh, my mistake. They just raided the fund, didn't even bother dumping into the general fund.

So when Obama says ss checks can't go out, he's telling the truth because the fund is empty, even though ss says it's flush until 2037 ... or 2036 ... or 2033. That date keeps changing.

And if the fund is flush, then Obama is lying when he says checks can't go out.

Of course the 'ancient' people don't want ss to change. They've been hooked on the government taking their money for ... well a lifetime. Old habits die hard.

The reason ss will stop over time is simple enough. It is because, as over 80% of the us population has figured out, the repubs have decided to shut down the government. You are part of the 20% or less that has not figured that out. Or, perhaps just does not believe anything except what you want to believe.

Must be nice living in a comfortable little bubble of conservative (read tea party) ignorance. You do not even have to think any more. But what you also miss is that you are completely irrelevant.

So, your thought about those old tea party members like ss because they are used to giving to the gov??? You really are stupid, aren't you me boy. SS is made up of money that the working people of this country pay to cover those currently employed. Did you miss that, dipshit. Or are you simply stupid??? So, you believe that they should not pay and should not receive that money?? Good for you. You may have missed it, but you are living in a democratic republic. And you are in the minority. Big time. So, you are screwed.

So which is it ... ss fund is flush (Obama is lying about checks not being able to go out) or ss fund is not flush (Obama is telling the truth about ss checks not being able to go out)?

SS is mainly for those who are retired/approaching retirement. The ancient people who are concerned with the government doing something that would jeopardize their ss (and yes, they certainly are entitled to their money from ss, I never said they weren't) are justified in their concern. Government has pilfered from it before, who knows what else they will come up with for 'our own good'.

The only person lying, me boy, is you. Here is the quote you are talking about.

A few hours later, Obama did just that during a speech at M. Luis Construction Company in Rockville, Md. He spent much of the speech warning that while the ongoing government shutdown was damaging, failure to raise the debt ceiling by an Oct. 17 deadline would be even worse.

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown — if we don't raise the debt ceiling — they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

Read more: Obama's Debt Ceiling Social Security 'Trump Card': Played - Business Insider

So, he said that in a gov shutdown they do go out. You lied. He did not say that they would not. He also said that in a economic shutdown, that they do not go out ON TIME. Really, a little honesty would be good. You are showing a total lack of integrity.

 

[jasonnfree]

Wow, and to think that the grandmother who is the president of our group is a huge financial genius? Who would have thought. I would imagine that the five-year old Chrysler van that she drives is just a cover? My God, how ingenious of her!

Or, perhaps the fifty or so really active members of our group (we have about 1,000 who show up for rallies and such) are taking secret marching orders from the Koch Brothers? A web of subversion and deceit that stretches coast to coast, how insidious. I can see it now, secret rooms where you have to know the password to gain entrance. Members stand in their hooded robes which cover their faces and hide their true identities. Mumbling ancient, evil incantations while surrounded by blood red candles which only barely light the alter. It's so frightening.

It couldn't possibly be that the members of the tea party want a SMALLER government, less taxes, and are just absolutely TIRED of the push for more intrusion into our private lives? No... how silly of me.

Course, the Occupy Wall Streeters have created a company that is offering prepaid credit cards to consumers. Their cut? $1.50 per transaction... Down with the 1%'ers! Ha,ha,ha...

Yep, those grannies and others in wheel chairs funded those big volvo buses and tea party rallys all over the country.

 

[Zoom-boing]

The reason ss will stop over time is simple enough. It is because, as over 80% of the us population has figured out, the repubs have decided to shut down the government. You are part of the 20% or less that has not figured that out. Or, perhaps just does not believe anything except what you want to believe.

Must be nice living in a comfortable little bubble of conservative (read tea party) ignorance. You do not even have to think any more. But what you also miss is that you are completely irrelevant.

So, your thought about those old tea party members like ss because they are used to giving to the gov??? You really are stupid, aren't you me boy. SS is made up of money that the working people of this country pay to cover those currently employed. Did you miss that, dipshit. Or are you simply stupid??? So, you believe that they should not pay and should not receive that money?? Good for you. You may have missed it, but you are living in a democratic republic. And you are in the minority. Big time. So, you are screwed.

So which is it ... ss fund is flush (Obama is lying about checks not being able to go out) or ss fund is not flush (Obama is telling the truth about ss checks not being able to go out)?

SS is mainly for those who are retired/approaching retirement. The ancient people who are concerned with the government doing something that would jeopardize their ss (and yes, they certainly are entitled to their money from ss, I never said they weren't) are justified in their concern. Government has pilfered from it before, who knows what else they will come up with for 'our own good'.

The only person lying, me boy, is you. Here is the quote you are talking about.

A few hours later, Obama did just that during a speech at M. Luis Construction Company in Rockville, Md. He spent much of the speech warning that while the ongoing government shutdown was damaging, failure to raise the debt ceiling by an Oct. 17 deadline would be even worse.

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown — if we don't raise the debt ceiling — they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

Read more: Obama's Debt Ceiling Social Security 'Trump Card': Played - Business Insider

So, he said that in a gov shutdown they do go out. You lied. He did not say that they would not. He also said that in a economic shutdown, that they do not go out ON TIME. Really, a little honesty would be good. You are showing a total lack of integrity.

So the ss is not flush. Otherwise, there would be no delay in getting those checks out on time.

No wonder the ancients are concerned with politicians messing with their social security.

 

[Rshermr]

So which is it ... ss fund is flush (Obama is lying about checks not being able to go out) or ss fund is not flush (Obama is telling the truth about ss checks not being able to go out)?

SS is mainly for those who are retired/approaching retirement. The ancient people who are concerned with the government doing something that would jeopardize their ss (and yes, they certainly are entitled to their money from ss, I never said they weren't) are justified in their concern. Government has pilfered from it before, who knows what else they will come up with for 'our own good'.

The only person lying, me boy, is you. Here is the quote you are talking about.

A few hours later, Obama did just that during a speech at M. Luis Construction Company in Rockville, Md. He spent much of the speech warning that while the ongoing government shutdown was damaging, failure to raise the debt ceiling by an Oct. 17 deadline would be even worse.

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown — if we don't raise the debt ceiling — they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

Read more: Obama's Debt Ceiling Social Security 'Trump Card': Played - Business Insider

So, he said that in a gov shutdown they do go out. You lied. He did not say that they would not. He also said that in a economic shutdown, that they do not go out ON TIME. Really, a little honesty would be good. You are showing a total lack of integrity.

So the ss is not flush. Otherwise, there would be no delay in getting those checks out on time.

No wonder the ancients are concerned with politicians messing with their social security.

So, me boy. Does your head hurt from being so stupid.

First you have to know how ss works. Where the money comes from, and when it is paid out. Now, this may be hard for you, but ss is a pay as you go program. Here, try to understand this:

Social Security is largely a pay-as-you-go program. This means that today's workers pay Social Security taxes into the program and money flows back out as monthly income to beneficiaries. As a pay-as-you-go system, Social Security differs from company pensions, which are “pre-funded.” In pre-funded retirement programs, the money is accumulated in advance so that it will be available to be paid out to today's workers when they retire. The private plans need to be funded in advance to protect employees in case the company enters bankruptcy or goes out of business.
What is Social Security? | National Academy of Social Insurance

So, me poor ignorant con, there is nothing there that should be or should not be "flush". Over-payments into ss go into a trust fund. Over-payments out of ss com out of a trust fund. Not The Social Security Trust Fund that you claim was raided. There is no such fund, me boy.

So, I know you are trying as hard as possible to say something negative about ss. But lying about it is not helping you. You simply show yourself to be more, and more, and more ignorant.

The ancients I have talked to, at those tea party meetings I attended, were not at all worried about ss as it is. They were VERY worried about repub interests in privatizing it. As you would know, had you a brain.

Relative to someone raiding the fictional ss trust fund, that is a lie pushed by right wing operatives to make people think they can not trust ss. It is, in other words, something said all the time by right wing bat shit crazy con web sites, and con tools like you:

This mentality (that politicians are raiding the "ss trust fund) is a serious obstacle to Social Security reform. If a looted trust fund is the problem, why bother overhauling Social Security? Just make Congress return the money.
Yet this popular belief is utterly mistaken. There is no trust fund, and Congress is doing nothing wrong.
The Myth of the Social Security Trust Fund : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

Typical con tool. Lying is just plain no problem for you, is it, dipshit. You are simply wasting people's time.

 

[jasonnfree]

I'd like to see Obama play hardball and publicly ask boehner some questions such as why do all republicans including boehner himself sign a pledge of no tax allegiance to some right wing guy running a think tank (Norquist).

 

[Zoom-boing]

The only person lying, me boy, is you. Here is the quote you are talking about.



Read more: Obama's Debt Ceiling Social Security 'Trump Card': Played - Business Insider

So, he said that in a gov shutdown they do go out. You lied. He did not say that they would not. He also said that in a economic shutdown, that they do not go out ON TIME. Really, a little honesty would be good. You are showing a total lack of integrity.

So the ss is not flush. Otherwise, there would be no delay in getting those checks out on time.

No wonder the ancients are concerned with politicians messing with their social security.

So, me boy. Does your head hurt from being so stupid.

First you have to know how ss works. Where the money comes from, and when it is paid out. Now, this may be hard for you, but ss is a pay as you go program. Here, try to understand this:

Social Security is largely a pay-as-you-go program. This means that today's workers pay Social Security taxes into the program and money flows back out as monthly income to beneficiaries. As a pay-as-you-go system, Social Security differs from company pensions, which are “pre-funded.” In pre-funded retirement programs, the money is accumulated in advance so that it will be available to be paid out to today's workers when they retire. The private plans need to be funded in advance to protect employees in case the company enters bankruptcy or goes out of business.
What is Social Security? | National Academy of Social Insurance

So, me poor ignorant con, there is nothing there that should be or should not be "flush". Over-payments into ss go into a trust fund. Over-payments out of ss com out of a trust fund. Not The Social Security Trust Fund that you claim was raided. There is no such fund, me boy.

So, I know you are trying as hard as possible to say something negative about ss. But lying about it is not helping you. You simply show yourself to be more, and more, and more ignorant.

The ancients I have talked to, at those tea party meetings I attended, were not at all worried about ss as it is. They were VERY worried about repub interests in privatizing it. As you would know, had you a brain.

Relative to someone raiding the fictional ss trust fund, that is a lie pushed by right wing operatives to make people think they can not trust ss. It is, in other words, something said all the time by right wing bat shit crazy con web sites, and con tools like you:

This mentality (that politicians are raiding the "ss trust fund) is a serious obstacle to Social Security reform. If a looted trust fund is the problem, why bother overhauling Social Security? Just make Congress return the money.
Yet this popular belief is utterly mistaken. There is no trust fund, and Congress is doing nothing wrong.
The Myth of the Social Security Trust Fund : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education

Typical con tool. Lying is just plain no problem for you, is it, dipshit. You are simply wasting people's time.

So, who decided to call it a trust fund? Read your own article re: trust fund vs. treasury fund.

Thank you for making my point. There is a 'fund' with money in it, surplus in fact. From your link:

Social Security revenues go into the Treasury’s general fund and are automatically credited to the Trust Fund in the form of Treasury bonds. The Treasury pays Social Security benefits and administrative outlays out of general revenue and debits the Trust Fund an equivalent value of bonds. Any leftover Social Security revenue finances general government operations, with an equivalent value of bonds remaining in the Trust Fund as Social Security’s “surplus;” to cover any revenue shortfalls.19 This is how a Treasury account, not a trust fund, works.

Obama saying that 'ss checks wouldn't go out on time' is a lie. The only reason they wouldn't go out on time would be if the gov't intentionally didn't send them out on time.

Just make Congress return the money.

Didn't you say that ss money didn't go into the general fund? From your link:

Social Security revenues go into the Treasury’s general fund and are automatically credited to the Trust Fund in the form of Treasury bonds. The Treasury pays Social Security benefits and administrative outlays out of general revenue and debits the Trust Fund an equivalent value of bonds. Any leftover Social Security revenue finances general government operations, with an equivalent value of bonds remaining in the Trust Fund as Social Security’s “surplus;” to cover any revenue shortfalls.19 This is how a Treasury account, not a trust fund, works.

You seem to not understand that flush means surplus. The SS link, below, shows your statement

So, me poor ignorant con, there is nothing there that should be or should not be "flush". Over-payments into ss go into a trust fund. Over-payments out of ss com out of a trust fund. Not The Social Security Trust Fund that you claim was raided. There is no such fund, me boy.

to be false.

SOCIAL SECURITY News Release
Social Security Board of Trustees: Projected Trust Fund Exhaustion One Year Sooner

The Social Security Board of Trustees today released its annual report on the financial health of the Social Security Trust Funds. The combined assets of the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) Trust Funds will be exhausted in 2036, one year sooner than projected last year. The DI Trust Fund, while unchanged from last year, will be exhausted in 2018 and legislative action will be needed soon. At a minimum, a reallocation of the payroll tax rate between OASI and DI would be necessary, as was done in 1994. The Trustees also project that OASDI program costs will exceed non-interest income in 2011 and will remain higher throughout the remainder of the 75-year period.

In the 2011 Annual Report to Congress, the Trustees announced:

The projected point at which the combined Trust Funds will be exhausted comes in 2036 -- one year sooner than projected last year. At that time, there will be sufficient non-interest income coming in to pay about 77 percent of scheduled benefits.

The point at which non-interest income fell below program costs was 2010. Program costs are projected to exceed non-interest income throughout the remainder of the 75-year period.

The projected actuarial deficit over the 75-year long-range period is 2.22 percent of taxable payroll -- 0.30 percentage point larger than in last year’s report.

Over the 75-year period, the Trust Funds would require additional revenue equivalent to $6.5 trillion in present value dollars to pay all scheduled benefits.

Social Security Press Office: Social Security Board of Trusteesrojected Trust Fund Exhaustion One Year Sooner

The fund is flush (surplus) atm. Down the road? Not so much.

From your post you don't seem to understand much. Me boy.

 

[Rshermr]

So the ss is not flush. Otherwise, there would be no delay in getting those checks out on time.

No wonder the ancients are concerned with politicians messing with their social security.

So, me boy. Does your head hurt from being so stupid.

First you have to know how ss works. Where the money comes from, and when it is paid out. Now, this may be hard for you, but ss is a pay as you go program. Here, try to understand this:



So, me poor ignorant con, there is nothing there that should be or should not be "flush". Over-payments into ss go into a trust fund. Over-payments out of ss com out of a trust fund. Not The Social Security Trust Fund that you claim was raided. There is no such fund, me boy.

So, I know you are trying as hard as possible to say something negative about ss. But lying about it is not helping you. You simply show yourself to be more, and more, and more ignorant.

The ancients I have talked to, at those tea party meetings I attended, were not at all worried about ss as it is. They were VERY worried about repub interests in privatizing it. As you would know, had you a brain.

Relative to someone raiding the fictional ss trust fund, that is a lie pushed by right wing operatives to make people think they can not trust ss. It is, in other words, something said all the time by right wing bat shit crazy con web sites, and con tools like you:



Typical con tool. Lying is just plain no problem for you, is it, dipshit. You are simply wasting people's time.

So, who decided to call it a trust fund? Read your own article re: trust fund vs. treasury fund.

Thank you for making my point. There is a 'fund' with money in it, surplus in fact. From your link:



Obama saying that 'ss checks wouldn't go out on time' is a lie. The only reason they wouldn't go out on time would be if the gov't intentionally didn't send them out on time.





Didn't you say that ss money didn't go into the general fund? From your link:



You seem to not understand that flush means surplus. The SS link, below, shows your statement

So, me poor ignorant con, there is nothing there that should be or should not be "flush". Over-payments into ss go into a trust fund. Over-payments out of ss com out of a trust fund. Not The Social Security Trust Fund that you claim was raided. There is no such fund, me boy.

to be false.

SOCIAL SECURITY News Release
Social Security Board of Trustees: Projected Trust Fund Exhaustion One Year Sooner

The Social Security Board of Trustees today released its annual report on the financial health of the Social Security Trust Funds. The combined assets of the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) Trust Funds will be exhausted in 2036, one year sooner than projected last year. The DI Trust Fund, while unchanged from last year, will be exhausted in 2018 and legislative action will be needed soon. At a minimum, a reallocation of the payroll tax rate between OASI and DI would be necessary, as was done in 1994. The Trustees also project that OASDI program costs will exceed non-interest income in 2011 and will remain higher throughout the remainder of the 75-year period.

In the 2011 Annual Report to Congress, the Trustees announced:

The projected point at which the combined Trust Funds will be exhausted comes in 2036 -- one year sooner than projected last year. At that time, there will be sufficient non-interest income coming in to pay about 77 percent of scheduled benefits.

The point at which non-interest income fell below program costs was 2010. Program costs are projected to exceed non-interest income throughout the remainder of the 75-year period.

The projected actuarial deficit over the 75-year long-range period is 2.22 percent of taxable payroll -- 0.30 percentage point larger than in last year’s report.

Over the 75-year period, the Trust Funds would require additional revenue equivalent to $6.5 trillion in present value dollars to pay all scheduled benefits.

Social Security Press Office: Social Security Board of Trusteesrojected Trust Fund Exhaustion One Year Sooner

The fund is flush (surplus) atm. Down the road? Not so much.

From your post you don't seem to understand much. Me boy.

That would be, me boy, because you are simply being dishonest again. For your etification, we are now in the year 2013. Most of the way through. You are posting a link from a link dated May, 2011. Things change, dipshit. But it is not issue. The change will be made to extend ss. It is a simple process. And will, as always, be extremely popular with the public. And those opposing it will find that they need to find a new job, somewhere else besides in the congress of the us.

Boehner has said he will not allow the us gov to default. So, as I continue to say, the repubs will cave. Some repubs in congress have already felt all the heat and crossed the line saying that a vote needs to happen. If the vote happened NOW, there would be a clean bill approving the debt increase. Just a matter of time now. So, you tea party nut cases can go back and put on your tin hats, and look for the next issue to destroy the us economy.

You said:

So, who decided to call it a trust fund? Read your own article re: trust fund vs. treasury fund.
Thank you for making my point. There is a 'fund' with money in it, surplus in fact. From your link

Money is put into funds. that is plural. I know, one is tough for you to understand. Two is just too much. And, me boy, it is NOT THE SS TRUST FUND. There is no such fund. simply funds set up to protect any surplus that may exist at any point in time. Now try to understand this, me ignorant tool OF COURSE THERE IS A SURPLUS TODAY. THERE HAS BEEN OFTEN IN THE PAST ALSO. NO ONE, INCLUDING MYSELF, IS SAYING DIFFERENTLY. AND ONLY YOU ARE MAKING ANY KIND OF A BIG DEAL OF IT. BECAUSE, OF COURSE, ANYONE WHO UNDERSTANDS SS KNOW IT IS NORMAL. NEXT.

The point, me boy, was that you said the ss trust fund had been raided. Which was a lie. Get it yet, dipshit. There is no single dedicated ss trust fund as simple minded people like you believe. And ss has NEVER, EVER been raided. Sorry you are too ignorant to understand that.

Then, there was this brilliant statement:
So, who decided to call it a trust fund? Read your own article re: trust fund vs. treasury fund.

The rest is drivel. Yes, if you want to be really stupid (which you do) then you would be correct that ss surplus goes to the general fund. For a few seconds, as it is transferred to a fund to protect it. Nice try dipshit. Really, you should try to be intellectually honest. Look it up.

And it is nice that you believe that the ss trust fund is flush. No one else much does, me boy. It has enough to allow ss to be paid for years, in conjunction with ss taxes being collected.

And, me poor ignorant con tool, you say again:

Obama saying that 'ss checks wouldn't go out on time' is a lie. The only reason they wouldn't go out on time would be if the gov't intentionally didn't send them out on time.

So, me lying con tool, here is the quote you are refering to AGAIN:l

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown — if we don't raise the debt ceiling — they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

Now, since you do not understand ss, you apparently have not gotten to the point where you get that ss taxes pay ss payments on an ongoing, monthly basis. And, if the economy is screwed up by a gov shutdown, as all economists agree it will be, ss revenues incoming will be greatly decreased, because people have stopped working. So, at some time, ss checks will not go out on time. Because there is insufficient incoming money and the trust fund will have been depleted. Quickly. Because no one is working any more.
It is way too difficult for you to understand. Probably better that you just believe that everything is just fine, as your handlers have told you.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Thanks for pointing out the date, thought I grabbed the current one.

Social Security Board of Trustees: No Change in Projected Year of Trust Fund Reserve Depletion May, 2013

The Social Security Board of Trustees today released its annual report on the long-term financial status of the Social Security Trust Funds. The combined assets of the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) Trust Funds are projected to become depleted in 2033, unchanged from last year, with 77 percent of benefits still payable at that time. The DI Trust Fund will become depleted in 2016, also unchanged from last year’s estimate, with 80 percent of benefits still payable.

Social Security Board of Trustees: No Change in Projected Year of Trust Fund Reserve Depletion

Well, look at that. SS is projected to become depleted in 2033, not 2036 as stated in the 2011 report. And the ss DI fund will become depleted in 2016, not 2018 as stated in the 2011 report.

Oh, my bad. I forgot the "s". From Social Security link: the Social Security Trust Funds. The combined assets of the Old-Age and Survivors Insurance, and Disability Insurance (OASDI) Trust Funds.

So there are no "ss trust funds" ... except where the social security board calls them ss trust funds. Got it.

Trust fund vs treasury fund. You didn't go back and read your own link. Again, who decided to call it a trust fund?

ss revenues incoming will be greatly decreased, because people have stopped working. So, at some time, ss checks will not go out on time. Because there is insufficient incoming money and the trust fund will have been depleted

From your link:

Social Security revenues go into the Treasury’s general fund and are automatically credited to the Trust Fund in the form of Treasury bonds. The Treasury pays Social Security benefits and administrative outlays out of general revenue and debits the Trust Fund an equivalent value of bonds. Any leftover Social Security revenue finances general government operations, with an equivalent value of bonds remaining in the Trust Fund as Social Security’s “surplus;” to cover any revenue shortfalls.19 This is how a Treasury account, not a trust fund, works.

From the ss link I provided, ss fund will not be depleted until 2033. The surplus is there to cover any revenue shortfalls.

The combined trust fund reserves are still growing and will continue to do so through 2020.

Once again, Obama said the ss checks wouldn't go out on time (I never said anything about the gov't shutdown vs debt ceiling, you did). He's lying. There is money in the ss fund (as stated in the ss link you provided and as stated by you "OF COURSE THERE IS A SURPLUS TODAY"), depletion isn't going to happen for twenty years. So if there is a surplus, there is no reason that the checks wouldn't go out on time, unless the government doesn't send them out on time.

Did you even bother to read what you wrote here?

And it is nice that you believe that the ss trust fund is flush. No one else much does, me boy. It has enough to allow ss to be paid for years, in conjunction with ss taxes being collected.

And you call me a dipshit? So no one else believes the ss trust fund (which you have stated doesn't exist but continually refer to) is flush (despite my providing a link from ss stating there is a surplus and your agreeing that there is a surplus) but is has enough in it (uh, which would be a surplus) to allow ss to be paid for years. <blink, blink> Well, I applaud you for contradicting yourself in such a short paragraph. Nice work!

The ss fund(s) have been raided. Surplus monies were invested in treasury bonds, IOUs that Uncle Sam issues to raise money for the things that government needs--like stealth helicopters, wars, helmet cameras for Navy Seals, IRS paper clips and pensions for mail carriers. The gov't spent that money, which is also stated in the link you provided.

 

[oldfart]

A few hours later, Obama did just that during a speech at M. Luis Construction Company in Rockville, Md. He spent much of the speech warning that while the ongoing government shutdown was damaging, failure to raise the debt ceiling by an Oct. 17 deadline would be even worse.

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown &#8212; if we don't raise the debt ceiling &#8212; they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

So, he said that in a gov shutdown they do go out....He also said that in a economic shutdown, that they do not go out ON TIME.

I'm having a bit of trouble with the Obama quote. My best guess is that Obama is confused. The first part, that OASDI checks go out on time during a government shutdown is correct. The second part about what happens when the debt ceiling is hit and extraordinary Treasury measures are exhausted seems turgid. I'm guessing that he means that OASDI checks go out, but could be delayed. But why would they be delayed?

Mechanically payroll taxes are deposited in Treasury accounts where the Treasury acts in its own behalf for the income tax withholding component and as agent for the OASDI and Medicare trust funds for those amounts ("tax and disbursement accounts" in commercial banks that are designated as federal repository accounts by the Federal Reserve). I assume that at the end of the day Treasury reconciles these accounts. Disbursements from the trust funds are made by the Treasury (more specifically the Financial Management Service) again as agent for the trust funds, and reconciled daily. Beginning in 2010, the "primary balance" (the difference between the payroll taxes collected and benefits and expenses disbursed) has become negative. Currently the difference is made up by interest the Treasury pays on the special issue bonds which the Treasury issues and the SSA holds. This covers the shortfall and provides an surplus which is periodically invested in additional Treasury bonds.

The question is what happens when the "hard" debt limit is reached and Treasury payments for interest on the bonds come due? There has been a lot of discussion among the experts about whether the Treasury can delay paying bills by each day paying only as much as it has cash on hand for. The issue is does it have the authority to "prioritize" the payment list, and how it would do so. My personal opinion is that Section four of the Fourteenth Amendment requires the government to pay interest on the public debt, regardless of any act of Congress such as the debt ceiling. But that's debatable.

So clearly the Treasury could and I presume would each day take the amounts collected as trust fund receipts and disburse them as benefits. The problem is the "primary deficit" which is still pretty small. If the Treasury pays interest on the debt, everything is fine for Social Security recipients and there checks should be on time. The only scenario where this would not happen is if the Treasury suspended payment of interest on the debt.

I cannot conceive that this would happen. Congress could always pass a law or resolution to pay interest on the special Treasury bonds held by the SSA to the extent of the primary deficit and nothing else would be effected. The USA could default on its sovereign debt, ground the Air Force, and not pay its bills to its heart's content while the world economy collapsed, the Supreme Court heard a Fourteenth Amendment case brought by the Chinese government trying to redeem $250 billion of matured bonds and six retired schoolteachers from Iowa trying to redeem EE savings bonds; all without delaying Social Security checks. Everybody can have all the drama and bathos they want without delaying Social Security checks.

 

[Rshermr]

So, lets see what zoom bong or what the hell ever the con tool is blathering about now.

Once again, Obama said the ss checks wouldn't go out on time (I never said anything about the gov't shutdown vs debt ceiling, you did). He's lying. There is money in the ss fund (as stated in the ss link you provided and as stated by you "OF COURSE THERE IS A SURPLUS TODAY"),

Not sure what your point is, but he did not say that they would not go out tomorrow. Or next week. Or in two months. He said they would be late ir the gov shut down was allowed to shut down the economy. I know this is difficult for you to understand. I explained it to you but you seem unable to comprehend. Not your fault, zoom. You are an idiot. That is congenital. Just plain bad luck for you.

depletion isn't going to happen for twenty years. So if there is a surplus, there is no reason that the checks wouldn't go out on time, unless the government doesn't send them out on time.

Me boy, when there is a surplus, payments are not made from trust funds. They are, however, when there are not sufficient tax revenues. So, you see, no one ever planned on paying ss payments strictly from the trust funds. The surplus available in those funds would be quickly gone if you did that. And then, soon, checks would stop going out altogether.
In addition, who do you think is going to pay the ss employees to process and send out checks, me boy. Is the tea party going to come in and do so without compensation??? Are they going to keep employees working. Lots of salaries there. How about those computer centers, me boy.

But that will not happen, me poor ignorant clown. Because the repubs will soon give up refusing to increase the debt limit. And they will agree to a clean bill, and that will be the end of the issue.

And you call me a dipshit?

Yes. See above, and below. You worked for it, you proved it, and you deserve it.

So no one else believes the ss trust fund (which you have stated doesn't exist but continually refer to) is flush (despite my providing a link from ss stating there is a surplus and your agreeing that there is a surplus)

Now, try again to understand, me poor ignorant con. 1. There is not a single fund called the ss trust fund. It does not exist. If you believe it does, bring proof. I already proved it does not.
2. You did not prove there was a surplus. You are being delusional. I had already stated there was. It is, you see, common knowledge. 3. Because there is a surplus does not mean it is flush, except in your tiny little mind.

but is has enough in it (uh, which would be a surplus) to allow ss to be paid for years. <blink, blink> Well, I applaud you for contradicting yourself in such a short paragraph. Nice work!

No, me boy. Again, you are just to stupid to understand that the vast majority of payments come from monthly tax collections. Payment from the trust funds alone will deplete those funds quickly.

The ss fund(s) have been raided. Surplus monies were invested in treasury bonds, IOUs that Uncle Sam issues to raise money for the things that government needs--like stealth helicopters, wars, helmet cameras for Navy Seals, IRS paper clips and pensions for mail carriers. The gov't spent that money, which is also stated in the link you provided.

Wow. You are showing your ignorance. You call investing the the surplus ss payments raiding. I really do not know what to say, zoom. I am stunned. I never knew anyone could be that stupid.

If you actually read the article I provided a link to (the one you refer to in the above sentence) , and if you are capable of understanding it, then you would know that as any good investment counselor will tell you, you never, ever let your money sit in a cookie jar. You invest it. Just as nations of all kinds do. And, because you are dealing with the money of the people, you invest it safely. Just as nations of all kinds do. And if you are so doing, and not as stupid as zoom is, then you buy gov bonds. Like treasury bonds. So that you do not LOOSE the principle. And so that you make maybe a little interest.

Now, calling that raiding the ss funds is really, really, really stupid. Because as you should know, the ss commissioner and his team have to invest any revenue from ss taxes until paid out. Including any surpluses. So, though you think that investing money in Treasury Bonds, which countries of all kinds do, is raiding their treasuries?? When they, as does the ss program, gets their investments back with interest??? Are you really that stupid??

Because raiding ss would mean you took something from it. And the only persons making the decision to invest ss funds in treasury bonds are the administers of the ss program. And, me poor ignorant clown, neither other nations, nor the ss fund, ever lost a penny on these investments. In fact they made money on those investments. And saying that the administrators raided the ss funds just does not pass the giggle test.

Thanks for proving that you are a complete idiot. Nice of you.

 

[Rshermr]

A few hours later, Obama did just that during a speech at M. Luis Construction Company in Rockville, Md. He spent much of the speech warning that while the ongoing government shutdown was damaging, failure to raise the debt ceiling by an Oct. 17 deadline would be even worse.

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown &#8212; if we don't raise the debt ceiling &#8212; they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

So, he said that in a gov shutdown they do go out....He also said that in a economic shutdown, that they do not go out ON TIME.

I'm having a bit of trouble with the Obama quote. My best guess is that Obama is confused. The first part, that OASDI checks go out on time during a government shutdown is correct. The second part about what happens when the debt ceiling is hit and extraordinary Treasury measures are exhausted seems turgid. I'm guessing that he means that OASDI checks go out, but could be delayed. But why would they be delayed?

Mechanically payroll taxes are deposited in Treasury accounts where the Treasury acts in its own behalf for the income tax withholding component and as agent for the OASDI and Medicare trust funds for those amounts ("tax and disbursement accounts" in commercial banks that are designated as federal repository accounts by the Federal Reserve). I assume that at the end of the day Treasury reconciles these accounts. Disbursements from the trust funds are made by the Treasury (more specifically the Financial Management Service) again as agent for the trust funds, and reconciled daily. Beginning in 2010, the "primary balance" (the difference between the payroll taxes collected and benefits and expenses disbursed) has become negative. Currently the difference is made up by interest the Treasury pays on the special issue bonds which the Treasury issues and the SSA holds. This covers the shortfall and provides an surplus which is periodically invested in additional Treasury bonds.

The question is what happens when the "hard" debt limit is reached and Treasury payments for interest on the bonds come due? There has been a lot of discussion among the experts about whether the Treasury can delay paying bills by each day paying only as much as it has cash on hand for. The issue is does it have the authority to "prioritize" the payment list, and how it would do so. My personal opinion is that Section four of the Fourteenth Amendment requires the government to pay interest on the public debt, regardless of any act of Congress such as the debt ceiling. But that's debatable.

So clearly the Treasury could and I presume would each day take the amounts collected as trust fund receipts and disburse them as benefits. The problem is the "primary deficit" which is still pretty small. If the Treasury pays interest on the debt, everything is fine for Social Security recipients and there checks should be on time. The only scenario where this would not happen is if the Treasury suspended payment of interest on the debt.

I cannot conceive that this would happen. Congress could always pass a law or resolution to pay interest on the special Treasury bonds held by the SSA to the extent of the primary deficit and nothing else would be effected. The USA could default on its sovereign debt, ground the Air Force, and not pay its bills to its heart's content while the world economy collapsed, the Supreme Court heard a Fourteenth Amendment case brought by the Chinese government trying to redeem $250 billion of matured bonds and six retired schoolteachers from Iowa trying to redeem EE savings bonds; all without delaying Social Security checks. Everybody can have all the drama and bathos they want without delaying Social Security checks.

I think that the real concern is long term effects on the economy in general. And whether payments would be delayed as a result of having to prioritize.
But, it is pretty obvious to see that the primary purpose is to put pressure on the repubs to go along with voting to increase the debt limit with a clean vote.

From the repubs standpoint, they see this as a chance to kill the aca. The chances are pretty good, as they probably know, that they may be able to get nowhere with killing the aca if it gets fully operational. And if it gets some good modifications over time, which it is likely to get, then they are doomed to have to live with it.

But the funny thing is, the aca does not kill private health insurance. There is NO public option. And there is obviously no single payer plan even thought of. So, Obama takes the aca, which was quite like previous repub plans, and goes along with keeping the private insurance companies as the only insurance options. And now, having done that. the repubs have been able to get a large number of the population to believe that it is better to go back to the prior system. You know, the one that had Americans paying over twice as much as any other oecd nation. Damn, are we a stupid nation or what?

 

[eagle1462010]

I have gone to several tea party gatherings in my area. What a fun group. Now, I am old, but these folks are ancient. Mostly. Except a few republican party leaders from the local party, and one or two paid speakers. Last one they had two talks by their paid speakers. One on the wonders of libertarianism. At the end, I asked the presenter to tell me of an example of a successful libertarian economy. He looked like he swallowed a turd, then turned and walked away.
The other presentation was there to discuss his book about why corporations should not pay taxes. This one simply got angry when I asked why corporations should be able to use our infrastructure without paying their costs of doing so.

But the members are simple folks. Not bad people, for the most part. But IGNORANT. Jesus.

All were completely against the politicians messing with their SS or Medicare. When I asked who was interested in messing with that, they really had no idea. But some were a getting a bit concerned that it may have been the tea party leadership itself.

Really, a fun time was had by all. They were all there primarily for the "feeding place" and started leaving when the food was gone. But what was most obvious? Over the prior two years, the number of folks turning out (ON TAX DAY) was down by about 80%. Without the financial backing of folks like Armey and Turdblossom, the tea party would be dead.
The take away for me was that apparently you had to take a stupid test and pass it to be a tea party member. And the more you talk to these poor ignorant folks, the more that becomes obvious.

The government already messed with it when they raided the SS trust fund. And you're questioning them about why they're concerned?

Well, you did say that they are all 'mostly' ancient. Maybe they died.

Were you aware, me boy, that ss has never had anything to do with the general fund, and therefor nothing to do with the deficit??? Separate thing. It is simply that some in congress would like to kill the current version of ss. And privatize it. Because some financial interests stand to gain BIG TIME.

YAWN.

The tool speaks again manipulating his point. Tell me about Intragovernmental debt asshole. It's close to 5 TRILLION NOW. Johnson UNIFIED our expenditures so we RAPE THE TRUST FUNDS.

Quite Frankly, these TRUSTS are nothing more than a stack of IOU'S. We spend every CENT taken in, and then BORROW another 33%.

 

[eagle1462010]

Social Security History

THE FINANCING PROCEDURES

In the Social Security Act of 1935 the income from the payroll tax was to be credited to a Social Security "account." Benefits were to be paid against this account, but there was no formal trust fund as such. Taxes began to be collected in January 1937, and monthly benefits were to be paid starting in January 1942 (later pushed forward to January 1940). So the payroll taxes were just credits in the Social Security account on the Treasury's ledger under the initial law.

The investment rules governing payroll tax income were also established in the 1935, and are essentially the same ones in use today. Specifically, the 1935 Act stated: "It shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury to invest such portion of the amounts credited to the Account as is not, in his judgment, required to meet current withdrawals. Such investment may be made only in interest-bearing obligations of the United States or in obligations guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the United States." (See Title II, Section 201of the 1935 law)

In the 1939 Amendments, a formal trust fund was established and a requirement was put in place for annual reports on the actuarial status of the fund. Specifically, the law provided: "There is hereby created on the books of the Treasury of the United States a trust fund to be known as the 'Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund'. . . . The Trust Fund shall consist of the securities held by the Secretary of the Treasury for the Old Age Reserve Account on the books of the Treasury on January 1, 1940, which securities and amount the Secretary of the Treasury is authorized and directed to transfer to the Trust Fund, and, in addition, such amounts as may be appropriated to the Trust Fund as herein under provided." (Title II, Section 201a)

In other words, a formal trust fund was established for the Social Security program and the credits already on the Treasury's books for the Social Security program were to be transferred to this Fund, along with all future revenues raised for the program.

The investment procedures adopted in 1939 were modified only slightly from those in the original Act of 1935. Basically, changes were made in the interest rate rules governing the investments, and the Managing Trustee was designated as the investing official (who happens to be the Secretary of the Treasury in any case), but in most other respects the language was similar to that in the original law. (See the text of the 1939 Amendments for more details.)

Both the 1935 and the 1939 laws specified three types of purchases that might be made: 1) securities on original issue at par; 2) by purchase of outstanding obligations at the market price; and 3) via the issuance of "special obligation bonds" that could be issued only to the Social Security Trust Fund. These special obligation bonds were not to be marketable, although the other two forms of securities could be. The idea of special obligation bonds was not new nor unique to the Social Security program. Similar bonds were used during World War I and World War II, and it was in fact the Second Liberty Bond Act that was the law amended in 1939 to allow the Social Security program to make use of this type of government bond.

Consequently, over time the Social Security Trust Funds have included a mix of marketable and non-marketable Treasury securities. Over the years, the proportion has shifted heavily in favor of special obligation bonds as the main asset held by the Social Security Trust Funds. Prior to 1960, the Treasury's policy was to invest primarily in marketable securities, although this policy was not always followed. Since 1960, the policy has been to invest principally in special obligation bonds, unless the Managing Trustee of the funds (i.e., the Secretary of the Treasury) determines that investment in marketable securities would be "in the public interest." In fact, since 1980 no marketable securities have been added to the Trust Funds. (For a more detailed explanation see the Office of the Actuary's Actuarial Note #142.)

Since the assets in the Social Security trust funds consists of Treasury securities, this means that the taxes collected under the Social Security payroll tax are in effect being lent to the federal government to be expended for whatever present purposes the government requires. In this indirect sense, one could say that the Social Security trust funds are being spent for non-Social Security purposes. However, all this really means is that the trust funds hold their assets in the form of Treasury securities.

These financing procedures have not changed in any fundamental way since payroll taxes were first collected in 1937. What has changed, however, is the accounting procedures used in federal budgeting when it comes to the Social Security Trust Funds.

 

[eagle1462010]

Riddle me this....................

We the People put money into the Treasury so that later in Life we would receive benefits for our INVESTMENT. Social Security, Medicare, and Pensions. The Treasury was allowed to Invest this money to make earnings via good Investment choices to increase our funds in a way similar to 401k's. But in the 60's the Gov't decided to use it to pay the bills and lower the deficit. Why should we incur debt and pay interest when we can BORROW FROM OURSELVES.

And then all was good. The Gov't could spend more. More programs, and BORROW FROM THE TRUST'S. No problem, we'll pay it back another day.. HA HA HA HA HA HA.

And the Gov't said, these FUNDS WILL BE GUARANTEED BY THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.......ha ha ha ha ha.

Nixon, I'm not a CROOK........while being forced by foreign countries to pay the debt in Gold, said that the GOLD STANDARD was not needed. We have PAPER. It has pretty colors on it. Pictures of Presidents. Pictures of Capital Buildings. It's a work of art. Worth ALL THE GOLD IN THE WORLD............ It will not effect us in the least. HA HA HA HA HA

So the ADDICTION TO GOV'T SPENDING GOES ON. Had we known their addiction was harmful, we could have put the Gov't into REHAB and GOTTEN THEM THE HELP THEY NEEDED, and that THEY STILL NEED TODAY....................Like a LSD ADDICT OF THE DAY, the HIPPIE FREAKS had an ADDICTION to MORE GOV'T. more debt.

MORE MORE MORE MORE. Give me MORE GOV'T.

And so the BEAT GOES ON.............Time Goes on, and the same HIPPIE FREAKS who needed REHAB back then RULE THE ROOST.

Debts don't matter. We need more drugs......MORE GOV'T. DEBT DOESN'T MATTER.

ha ha ha ha ha

Who are these TEA PARTY PEOPLE to take away our ADDICTION TO GOV'T. They are ANARCHIST. They are EVIL. Why do we need to go to REHAB......................

We don't have a problem.

These people have a problem.

So, they MUST JOIN THE HIPPIE FREAKS, AND GET ADDICTED TO GOV'T. It's GOOD FOR YOU. So smoke a Joint and JOIN US.................TODAY.............

Stop complaining and ENJOY THE RIDE TO HELL..............................

Start by joining us with getting FREE SHIT........................

Call anyone who opposes us, Hitler Youth, Anarchist, traitors,

Join the ADDICTED AND GET MORE GOV'T.

 

[eagle1462010]

And now for your listening pleasure and addiction.

Do good thing and bad things.............

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcrppevM46Q]O'JAYS - For The Love Of Money (O'Jays Greatest Hits Album) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[eagle1462010]

Our Path...............

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG7w6Nzx7hU]WHEN THE BULLET HITS THE BONE - YouTube[/ame]

 

[eagle1462010]

So, me boy. Does your head hurt from being so stupid.

First you have to know how ss works. Where the money comes from, and when it is paid out. Now, this may be hard for you, but ss is a pay as you go program. Here, try to understand this:



So, me poor ignorant con, there is nothing there that should be or should not be "flush". Over-payments into ss go into a trust fund. Over-payments out of ss com out of a trust fund. Not The Social Security Trust Fund that you claim was raided. There is no such fund, me boy.

So, I know you are trying as hard as possible to say something negative about ss. But lying about it is not helping you. You simply show yourself to be more, and more, and more ignorant.

The ancients I have talked to, at those tea party meetings I attended, were not at all worried about ss as it is. They were VERY worried about repub interests in privatizing it. As you would know, had you a brain.

Relative to someone raiding the fictional ss trust fund, that is a lie pushed by right wing operatives to make people think they can not trust ss. It is, in other words, something said all the time by right wing bat shit crazy con web sites, and con tools like you:



Typical con tool. Lying is just plain no problem for you, is it, dipshit. You are simply wasting people's time.

So, who decided to call it a trust fund? Read your own article re: trust fund vs. treasury fund.

Thank you for making my point. There is a 'fund' with money in it, surplus in fact. From your link:



Obama saying that 'ss checks wouldn't go out on time' is a lie. The only reason they wouldn't go out on time would be if the gov't intentionally didn't send them out on time.





Didn't you say that ss money didn't go into the general fund? From your link:



You seem to not understand that flush means surplus. The SS link, below, shows your statement

to be false.



Social Security Press Office: Social Security Board of Trusteesrojected Trust Fund Exhaustion One Year Sooner

The fund is flush (surplus) atm. Down the road? Not so much.

From your post you don't seem to understand much. Me boy.

That would be, me boy, because you are simply being dishonest again. For your etification, we are now in the year 2013. Most of the way through. You are posting a link from a link dated May, 2011. Things change, dipshit. But it is not issue. The change will be made to extend ss. It is a simple process. And will, as always, be extremely popular with the public. And those opposing it will find that they need to find a new job, somewhere else besides in the congress of the us.

Boehner has said he will not allow the us gov to default. So, as I continue to say, the repubs will cave. Some repubs in congress have already felt all the heat and crossed the line saying that a vote needs to happen. If the vote happened NOW, there would be a clean bill approving the debt increase. Just a matter of time now. So, you tea party nut cases can go back and put on your tin hats, and look for the next issue to destroy the us economy.

You said:

So, who decided to call it a trust fund? Read your own article re: trust fund vs. treasury fund.
Thank you for making my point. There is a 'fund' with money in it, surplus in fact. From your link

Money is put into funds. that is plural. I know, one is tough for you to understand. Two is just too much. And, me boy, it is NOT THE SS TRUST FUND. There is no such fund. simply funds set up to protect any surplus that may exist at any point in time. Now try to understand this, me ignorant tool OF COURSE THERE IS A SURPLUS TODAY. THERE HAS BEEN OFTEN IN THE PAST ALSO. NO ONE, INCLUDING MYSELF, IS SAYING DIFFERENTLY. AND ONLY YOU ARE MAKING ANY KIND OF A BIG DEAL OF IT. BECAUSE, OF COURSE, ANYONE WHO UNDERSTANDS SS KNOW IT IS NORMAL. NEXT.

The point, me boy, was that you said the ss trust fund had been raided. Which was a lie. Get it yet, dipshit. There is no single dedicated ss trust fund as simple minded people like you believe. And ss has NEVER, EVER been raided. Sorry you are too ignorant to understand that.

Then, there was this brilliant statement:
So, who decided to call it a trust fund? Read your own article re: trust fund vs. treasury fund.

The rest is drivel. Yes, if you want to be really stupid (which you do) then you would be correct that ss surplus goes to the general fund. For a few seconds, as it is transferred to a fund to protect it. Nice try dipshit. Really, you should try to be intellectually honest. Look it up.

And it is nice that you believe that the ss trust fund is flush. No one else much does, me boy. It has enough to allow ss to be paid for years, in conjunction with ss taxes being collected.

And, me poor ignorant con tool, you say again:

Obama saying that 'ss checks wouldn't go out on time' is a lie. The only reason they wouldn't go out on time would be if the gov't intentionally didn't send them out on time.

So, me lying con tool, here is the quote you are refering to AGAIN:l

"In a government shutdown, Social Security checks still go out on time. In an economic shutdown — if we don't raise the debt ceiling — they don't go out on time," Obama said. "In a government shutdown, disability benefits still arrive on time. In an economic shutdown, they don't."

Now, since you do not understand ss, you apparently have not gotten to the point where you get that ss taxes pay ss payments on an ongoing, monthly basis. And, if the economy is screwed up by a gov shutdown, as all economists agree it will be, ss revenues incoming will be greatly decreased, because people have stopped working. So, at some time, ss checks will not go out on time. Because there is insufficient incoming money and the trust fund will have been depleted. Quickly. Because no one is working any more.
It is way too difficult for you to understand. Probably better that you just believe that everything is just fine, as your handlers have told you.

Good. Then we no longer owe any debt to intragovernmental holdings.

Thanks man.......You just saved us 5 TRILLION DOLLARS.

What a man..............

And then we wake up to Reality.

 

[Rshermr]

The government already messed with it when they raided the SS trust fund. And you're questioning them about why they're concerned?

Well, you did say that they are all 'mostly' ancient. Maybe they died.

Were you aware, me boy, that ss has never had anything to do with the general fund, and therefor nothing to do with the deficit??? Separate thing. It is simply that some in congress would like to kill the current version of ss. And privatize it. Because some financial interests stand to gain BIG TIME.

YAWN.

The tool speaks again manipulating his point. Tell me about Intragovernmental debt asshole. It's close to 5 TRILLION NOW. Johnson UNIFIED our expenditures so we RAPE THE TRUST FUNDS.

Quite Frankly, these TRUSTS are nothing more than a stack of IOU'S. We spend every CENT taken in, and then BORROW another 33%.

Thanks for proving you are an idiot. You are simply stating the charges of bat shit crazy con web sites. And you believe that treasury bills are worthless IOU's, even though they have been payi8ng back their creditors with interest for decades. Pull your head from you ass. Dipshit.

 

[Sallow]

US Economy and the Federal Government are two different and often opposite things. There's a Krugmanesque disconnect and fundamental economic ignorance that permeates all Liberal economic posts

No they are not.

They are symbiotic.

No government, no economy.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Tea Party Narrow Echo Chamber Endangering Economy

True.

False is TPM dogma maintaining that government must be ‘shut down’ to ‘save’ the economy.