Terms 'Christmas' and 'Thanksgiving' banned at school

[Montrovant]

So, let's have Muslim stuff, Jewish stuff, Buddhist stuff etc, then anyone who wants to opt out can opt out.

Can't change the system? Why not just take religion out of schools, it doesn't belong in schools. School is for EDUCATION, not for fairy stories.

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

What I get from this post, in summary : "I only want those religious celebrations I like to be allowed in schools".

 

[JimBowie1958]

The first Thanksgiving was celebrated by the Pilgrims, together with a tribe of indians, for giving thanks to god that they had just wiped out another tribe of Indians, men, women and children. I can see how native Americans would be less than enthusiastic about that.

Christmas is no longer a religious holiday. It is now just a commercialized, ridiculous holiday celebrating consumerism. Halloween started out as a christian event, but it is now so far removed, noone would know it.

Personally, I don't give a rat's ass if anyone celebrates either of them, or not. I don't.

Apparently you care enough to inflict your ignorant opinion.

Christmas is still a religious holiday idiot because RELIGIONS still maintain it as a holiday, lol.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, let's have Muslim stuff, Jewish stuff, Buddhist stuff etc, then anyone who wants to opt out can opt out.

Can't change the system? Why not just take religion out of schools, it doesn't belong in schools. School is for EDUCATION, not for fairy stories.

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

So you wouldn't want Islamic holidays and you have your reasons.

So you could see that others might have a problem with Christianity. Look at the Americas, taken over by Christians, Australia, New Zealand, A lot of Africa and other places too. Wasn't exactly done with flowers and niceness, was it? Read about the conquest of the Incas, very bloody.

Should there be religious schools? My view is no. Education is education.

Should religion be in schools? No. Holidays fine, make things nice, snowflakes, trees, decorations, etc, but Jesus and his fairy tales?? No.

 

[Tilly]

30 years ago it would have been "obvious" that I was a Communist, now it's "obvious" I'm a Muslim because... because you find the common enemy, then you label anyone who disagrees with you with that label.

No, you're a Muslim because you claimed to be, and then did not deny it when given the chance.

Oh, I claim to be, do I?

Really. And where did you make this up from? Or was it when I claimed to be Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist at the same time?

No it was before you added in the other religions. It was when you referred to you and the adhan etc.

Fucking hell!!!!

Calm down for goodness sake. You did do that. I appreciate now you were attempting to illustrate a point, albeit poorly.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So, let's have Muslim stuff, Jewish stuff, Buddhist stuff etc, then anyone who wants to opt out can opt out.

Can't change the system? Why not just take religion out of schools, it doesn't belong in schools. School is for EDUCATION, not for fairy stories.

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

 

[frigidweirdo]

30 years ago it would have been "obvious" that I was a Communist, now it's "obvious" I'm a Muslim because... because you find the common enemy, then you label anyone who disagrees with you with that label.

No, you're a Muslim because you claimed to be, and then did not deny it when given the chance.

Oh, I claim to be, do I?

Really. And where did you make this up from? Or was it when I claimed to be Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist at the same time?

No it was before you added in the other religions. It was when you referred to you and the adhan etc.

Fucking hell!!!!

Calm down for goodness sake. You did do that. I appreciate now you were attempting to illustrate a point, albeit poorly.

Oh, I'm supposed to calm down when you're making up bullshit about me? Right.... maybe next time learn not to make up nonsense.

Also, if I were Muslim, would it be a problem?

 

[Tilly]

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

What I get from this post, in summary : "I only want those religious celebrations I like to be allowed in schools".

You're almost there.

 

[Tilly]

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

What I get from this post, in summary : "I only want those religious celebrations I like to be allowed in schools".

So you'd like your children to be exposed to a religion where its founder was a warrior who pillaged, enslaved, married a child and murdered people. Well I'm afraid I don't want that at all, and I make no apology for it.

 

[Tilly]

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

So you wouldn't want Islamic holidays and you have your reasons.

So you could see that others might have a problem with Christianity. Look at the Americas, taken over by Christians, Australia, New Zealand, A lot of Africa and other places too. Wasn't exactly done with flowers and niceness, was it? Read about the conquest of the Incas, very bloody.

Should there be religious schools? My view is no. Education is education.

Should religion be in schools? No. Holidays fine, make things nice, snowflakes, trees, decorations, etc, but Jesus and his fairy tales?? No.

I promise you I am aware of the history of the missionaries and what I consider to be a complete deviation from the New Testament and from Jesus' message, and I'm not exactly happy about it. But that is not the world we live in now. I tend to think about what is happening in the here and now, and that's how I decide what I want for children. I won't ever change my mind about it being better for children to be exposed to Jesus, than say, Mohammed, and these are brief periods in the school year. I really wish people would stop getting so worked up and trying to change everything, and I'm sick and tired of the attacks on Christianity when those doing the attacking give Islam a free pass. It's nauseating.

 

[gallantwarrior]

Maceys has pilgrims and turkeys. No Jesus.

Lol, not every Christian religious holiday is about Jesus, doofus.

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

That is absolutely true, but I don't see how it matters now.

Apparently it matters to some people who equate such holidays strictly as Christian celebrations when, in fact, such celebrations predate Christianity by millennia. Why some folks take umbrage at so-called "Christian" holidays is beyond me.

I would assume it depends on the circumstances. If the holiday is being pushed by the teachers on to the students, Christmas themes on schoolwork, Christmas activities for the class, things like that, a non-Christian family, particularly one that doesn't celebrate Christmas, might feel that the school is pushing a religious belief onto their child.

It gets more complicated when you have religious themed activities but allow children to 'opt out'. A child may not be forced to do religious activities they don't believe in, but in our majority Christian country, with many non-Christians celebrating Christmas, it probably wouldn't be unusual for only one student in a classroom to not be involved in whatever Christmas activity is being done. The child might feel ostracised, be made fun of by other students, etc.. Maybe that isn't enough reason to do away with school-sponsored Christmas activities, but apparently enough people now feel it is that at least some places have changed things.

There is a lot of over-sensitivity involved, but I think that is true both from some who would prefer all reference to Christmas gone from schools and some who would like to see it celebrated. Is calling it the winter holiday, or something of that nature, really that offensive or damaging to the children? Banning any use of the word Christmas in school would, obviously, be ridiculous, but I haven't seen any credible evidence that happened.

With Thanksgiving, I can only guess someone worries about possible offense to native Indians.

People can get so hyper sensitive about this kind of thing I completely understand schools wanting to avoid dealing with it and going with the most bland holiday celebration they can.

I could see allowing a Winter break around the time of the Solstice. A week between Solstice and New Years would accommodate most peoples' religious requirements. We have Spring Break, which corresponds roughly with the Spring Equinox, so why not something similar in winter? Unfortunately, too many people are now PC victims and are so offended by simple traditions, it's sickening. Really, people, get a grasp and focus on more important aspects of life. Does someone wishing you a "Merry Christmas" cause that much damage?

 

[Tilly]

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

It's at Christmas and Easter. I think you are seriously underestimating children's ability to 'cope' with this terrifying abuse.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

I personally would not like to see Islamic holidays celebrated in regular schools. I'm not sure how this all works in the US, but in Europe there are muslim schools for families who want to stick with their beliefs and not be involved with anything other than Islamic rites and traditions. I would not want my children being exposed to the ceremonies of a religion that honours a man who waged war, married a nine year old, practiced deceit and murdered people. I might not be religious myself, but I do emphatically believe Jesus and his message is a much better example to expose children to. I don't really understand how anyone, other than a Muslim, could have a problem with that. I fully appreciate that you are going to despise this post. Sorry.

So you wouldn't want Islamic holidays and you have your reasons.

So you could see that others might have a problem with Christianity. Look at the Americas, taken over by Christians, Australia, New Zealand, A lot of Africa and other places too. Wasn't exactly done with flowers and niceness, was it? Read about the conquest of the Incas, very bloody.

Should there be religious schools? My view is no. Education is education.

Should religion be in schools? No. Holidays fine, make things nice, snowflakes, trees, decorations, etc, but Jesus and his fairy tales?? No.

I promise you I am aware of the history of the missionaries and what I consider to be a complete deviation from the New Testament and from Jesus' message, and I'm not exactly happy about it. But that is not the world we live in now. I tend to think about what is happening in the here and now, and that's how I decide what I want for children. I won't ever change my mind about it being better for children to be exposed to Jesus, than say, Mohammed, and these are brief periods in the school year. I really wish people would stop getting so worked up and trying to change everything, and I'm sick and tired of the attacks on Christianity when those doing the attacking give Islam a free pass. It's nauseating.

Mohammed isn't the world we live in now either.

What is the world we live in is people who take a religion and use it for their own aims and goals.

Now, Islam has been on the back foot, fighting wars against superior technology and numbers, the UK, the USA, France etc, for quite some time now, and has learned that having people who believe in something is a great tool for fighting guerrilla warfare.

Islam is neither here nor there, but they're using the religion, twisting the religion (everyone twists religion no matter who they are) to suit the needs of the times.

Hitler and Stalin were exposed to Jesus. Enough said?

You want to stop people changing things? Well, that's life, sorry.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Lol, not every Christian religious holiday is about Jesus, doofus.

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

That is absolutely true, but I don't see how it matters now.

Apparently it matters to some people who equate such holidays strictly as Christian celebrations when, in fact, such celebrations predate Christianity by millennia. Why some folks take umbrage at so-called "Christian" holidays is beyond me.

I would assume it depends on the circumstances. If the holiday is being pushed by the teachers on to the students, Christmas themes on schoolwork, Christmas activities for the class, things like that, a non-Christian family, particularly one that doesn't celebrate Christmas, might feel that the school is pushing a religious belief onto their child.

It gets more complicated when you have religious themed activities but allow children to 'opt out'. A child may not be forced to do religious activities they don't believe in, but in our majority Christian country, with many non-Christians celebrating Christmas, it probably wouldn't be unusual for only one student in a classroom to not be involved in whatever Christmas activity is being done. The child might feel ostracised, be made fun of by other students, etc.. Maybe that isn't enough reason to do away with school-sponsored Christmas activities, but apparently enough people now feel it is that at least some places have changed things.

There is a lot of over-sensitivity involved, but I think that is true both from some who would prefer all reference to Christmas gone from schools and some who would like to see it celebrated. Is calling it the winter holiday, or something of that nature, really that offensive or damaging to the children? Banning any use of the word Christmas in school would, obviously, be ridiculous, but I haven't seen any credible evidence that happened.

With Thanksgiving, I can only guess someone worries about possible offense to native Indians.

People can get so hyper sensitive about this kind of thing I completely understand schools wanting to avoid dealing with it and going with the most bland holiday celebration they can.

I could see allowing a Winter break around the time of the Solstice. A week between Solstice and New Years would accommodate most peoples' religious requirements. We have Spring Break, which corresponds roughly with the Spring Equinox, so why not something similar in winter? Unfortunately, too many people are now PC victims and are so offended by simple traditions, it's sickening. Really, people, get a grasp and focus on more important aspects of life. Does someone wishing you a "Merry Christmas" cause that much damage?

No, wishing someone Merry Christmas doesn't do damage. However the question is where should religion be? In everyone's faces or at home and where people CHOOSE to be?

 

[gallantwarrior]

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

Only right-wingers? Really? Looked in a mirror lately?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

It's at Christmas and Easter. I think you are seriously underestimating children's ability to 'cope' with this terrifying abuse.

To cope with? Children can cope with a lot, many children "cope with" bullying, doesn't make it right.

 

[Tilly]

No, you're a Muslim because you claimed to be, and then did not deny it when given the chance.

Oh, I claim to be, do I?

Really. And where did you make this up from? Or was it when I claimed to be Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist at the same time?

No it was before you added in the other religions. It was when you referred to you and the adhan etc.

Fucking hell!!!!

Calm down for goodness sake. You did do that. I appreciate now you were attempting to illustrate a point, albeit poorly.

Oh, I'm supposed to calm down when you're making up bullshit about me? Right.... maybe next time learn not to make up nonsense.

Also, if I were Muslim, would it be a problem?

I apologise. And no, it would not be a problem at all, quite the opposite. There seem to be precious few muslims here to put their views across.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

Only right-wingers? Really? Looked in a mirror lately?

Did I say "only right wingers"????

 

[gallantwarrior]

Truth be told, even celebrating the birth of Jesus at Christmastime (i.e. late December) is nothing more than co-opting the traditional pagan celebration of the winter solstice, when the year turns. Lots of Christian holidays somehow managed to end up being celebrated at the same time that pagan/non-Christians celebrated...go figure!

That is absolutely true, but I don't see how it matters now.

Apparently it matters to some people who equate such holidays strictly as Christian celebrations when, in fact, such celebrations predate Christianity by millennia. Why some folks take umbrage at so-called "Christian" holidays is beyond me.

I would assume it depends on the circumstances. If the holiday is being pushed by the teachers on to the students, Christmas themes on schoolwork, Christmas activities for the class, things like that, a non-Christian family, particularly one that doesn't celebrate Christmas, might feel that the school is pushing a religious belief onto their child.

It gets more complicated when you have religious themed activities but allow children to 'opt out'. A child may not be forced to do religious activities they don't believe in, but in our majority Christian country, with many non-Christians celebrating Christmas, it probably wouldn't be unusual for only one student in a classroom to not be involved in whatever Christmas activity is being done. The child might feel ostracised, be made fun of by other students, etc.. Maybe that isn't enough reason to do away with school-sponsored Christmas activities, but apparently enough people now feel it is that at least some places have changed things.

There is a lot of over-sensitivity involved, but I think that is true both from some who would prefer all reference to Christmas gone from schools and some who would like to see it celebrated. Is calling it the winter holiday, or something of that nature, really that offensive or damaging to the children? Banning any use of the word Christmas in school would, obviously, be ridiculous, but I haven't seen any credible evidence that happened.

With Thanksgiving, I can only guess someone worries about possible offense to native Indians.

People can get so hyper sensitive about this kind of thing I completely understand schools wanting to avoid dealing with it and going with the most bland holiday celebration they can.

I could see allowing a Winter break around the time of the Solstice. A week between Solstice and New Years would accommodate most peoples' religious requirements. We have Spring Break, which corresponds roughly with the Spring Equinox, so why not something similar in winter? Unfortunately, too many people are now PC victims and are so offended by simple traditions, it's sickening. Really, people, get a grasp and focus on more important aspects of life. Does someone wishing you a "Merry Christmas" cause that much damage?

No, wishing someone Merry Christmas doesn't do damage. However the question is where should religion be? In everyone's faces or at home and where people CHOOSE to be?

I'm not religious but find no offense if someone wishes me a "merry Christmas". I see no reason to limit someone else's' freedom of speech should they choose to express their acknowledgement of the season.

 

[Tilly]

Well, you have a point there. Could get a bit time consuming, although I'm sure there are schools in Europe which do just that. I do find it sad to think of losing Christmas and Easter at school even though I'm not religious myself. They were lovely times of the year to be in school.

Christmas is a nice time of year. But why? Is it the religious, or is it just that people celebrate something? Having a "winter festival", no religious, with things that make it fun, present giving, decorations and the like, what's wrong with that? If kids want to have it as Christmas, then fine, but everyone should be allowed to partake in this, and unless the school is 100% of a faith, then it isn't going to happen.

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

I'm afraid we'll have to agree to differ. I don't want children exposed to the pseudo religion of a warmongerer and a totalitarian political system masquerading as a religion. Everything else is fine by me. Sorry, and feel free to call me a bigot and whatever else. I won't mind.

 

[gallantwarrior]

I loved the nativity play, the Christmas carols, the Christmas card making, the Christmas tree, and so on. My parents are atheists and I'm agnostic, but I still loved the stories about Jesus and the nativity and all the rest, and I still do. I don't think I want it all taken out of Christmas just because some people don't believe in it. There is little to take offence at in these traditions and they harm no-one, so I'd prefer them to stay, and those that don't like them need not attend.

So you're not offended by it so it's okay?

What if you had Muslim holidays and went through all of that, would you be offended? Maybe not. But how many right wingers do you think WOULD BE offended by it?

This is the point. If people would not accept one thing, why should minorities be forced to accept the majority?

Again, does religion have a place in schools? Education is about learning REAL THINGS.

How about the minorities make other arrangements?

Again, if kids are singled out for being different in schools, it's not a good thing. It doesn't promote integration at all, it promotes an "us and them" attitude which you can see exists massively with right wingers.

Only right-wingers? Really? Looked in a mirror lately?

Did I say "only right wingers"????

You certainly did not include left-wingers.