The 50 most developed countries in the world and Universal Healthcare.

[Crixus]

That's not true because the unemployment rate is the lowest in half a century and there are 7.3 million unfilled jobs in the country. The United States needs more people from latin America to come to this country in order to improve and sustain good economic growth.

Lol, how old are you?

Irrelevant. What I said is based on accurate economic statistics. There is a labor shortage that will eventually slow and hurt U.S. economic growth. Rising GDP must have a growing labor force to support it. Birthrate decline in the United States and the retirement of the babyboom generation means these extra workers will have to come from immigrants.

WRONG...because automation will fill many of those jobs. You're 20, right?

Yup. Even illegals will be out of work soon.

Well, if that were the case, we'd have rising levels of unemployment and no unfilled jobs. Reality is different. 4% unemployment and dropping, 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Robo-worker is failing miserably when it comes to making a dent in these figures.

Did you not see the robots?

 

[bripat9643]

Your children will pay the price when government decides to control drug prices.

If government controls prices we'll all pay less.

There won't be any new drugs, you fucking dumbass. Drug companies aren't going to invest billions of dollars if they can't recoup their costs.

'

I agree to a point, but drug patents are much too long, shorten the patent times and get generics into the market faster and everyone will benefit. the drug companies might end up making 40% profits instead of 60%

I agree the cost can be vastly reduced. Most of it is a result of regulations and the approval process. Of course, the left will fight that tooth and nail every step of the way.

YES. Laser eye surgery cost like $5k per eye 10 years ago. Now it is $800 per. Why? More doctors, more competition, no insurance interference.

I've seen ads that offer it for $300/per eye, but profit always makes things more expensive, right?

 

[U2Edge]

Don't have to. These little individual examples, whether they are true or not, are irrelevant. What matters is the overall averages on life expectancy and the countries that provide Universal Healthcare. Look FRANCE, GERMANY, SWEDEN, NORWAY, ITALY etc. Most people in the top 50 most developed countries in the world stay in their own countries when it comes to healthcare. At least 34 of those countries citizens live longer than Americans on average. One's personal experience, or some off hand example will not change that reality.

France, where doctors went on strike for weeks, and people were left without care, not to mention people died of heat stroke in hospitals during a heat wave years back.

Germany, has a system of private insurance, the nearly all people are part of.

Moreover, nearly all those countries have double our tax rate.

Which is more expensive: Current insurance premiums, or a 50% tax rate on the middle class?

And yes, the fact is, if you want to support your argument, then you do have to explain why people come from all over the world from their 'free health care' systems, to pay for health care here.

If you can't, then whether you admit it, or believe it, you have undeniably lost the argument that free government care is better.

SOME PEOPLE come to the United States for healthcare. Some. Its a tiny percentage and not proof that the United States healthcare system is better.

Healthcare cost in Europe are about 1/2 to 2/3s of what they are in the United States. The Quality is better because the people there live longer. Everyone there is provided for. Its the three BIG WINS!

The United States can get the taxes it needs for Universal Healthcare from the top 20% of income earners who have 80% of the wealth in the country. Capital Gains, Property, Estate and other things besides just income will need to see increased tax rates. The Middle Class will only be lightly effected if at all by the increased tax rates. The lower class and the poor won't have to pay anything.

This is yet another example of the mythology that I'm talking about.

If what you said was true, then why isn't Europe doing that? You claim we can get all the money we need from the top 20%, right? Why isn't Europe doing that? Why are people in Denmark, who earn $40,000 a year, paying 50% income tax?

Why are people in France that earn $30,000 a year, paying 30% income taxes?

All over Europe, it isn't the rich and wealth, or the top 20%, or 10%, or 1% paying for health care.... it's the middle and lower class paying for it.

Do you know why France is having riots right now? It's because the government was trying to jack up taxes on fuel. They are already paying almost double in income tax, and they want to screw the lower and middle class over with fuel taxes.

Why? To pay for, among other things, their expensive health care system.

You keep telling everyone how it's cheaper... and then when I compare their insane taxes, to my health insurance premium... there is nothing cheaper about it.

You keep blabbering about how the rich and wealthy will pay for it... and then point to all these countries with it, where the poor and middle class are paying for it.

There is not one single example in this world, where the rich and wealthy, pay for the health care of the poor.

And maybe you missed it, but France tried a wealth tax, and the all the wealthy packed up and left.

And clearly you didn't get the memo, because Amazon was about to create 25,000 jobs in New York, and the politicians tried to get them to pay for a bunch of stuff.... and Amazon left, just like the wealthy of France started leaving, just like the wealthy of Venezuela left.

Your system doesn't work. How many hundreds of examples do you need, before you stop believing the mythology the left-wing spews at you?

The irony is, even some of the socialists in this country admit that universal health care would cost at least a 12% on everyone. And that's BS, because that's way to low.

As a percentage of GDP, your average European country spends about 11% of their GDP on healthcare. The United States by contrast spends 17% of its GDP on healthcare. Also consider that US GDP and US GDP per capita is higher on average than these European countries.

The Europeans spend less as a percentage of GDP, cover everyone in the country, and live longer on average than Americans. Those are the facts, and it shows that the Europeans WIN in all three categories.

Israel spends only 7% of its GDP on healthcare and everyone is provided and they live longer than Americans.

"Never mind your facts. I want to believe this is true, so I'm going to keep insisting on it!"

Life expectancy has nothing to do with healthcare. You've had this explained to you ad nauseam. Ergo, arguments about "We need to copy these countries because they live longer" is the same as you saying, "I have no argument, I just want it!"

Also, if you want to blather about healthcare expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you need to explain exactly which spending you're referring to, and provide sources. There is entirely too much loose, sloppy conflation of different healthcare spending numbers for anyone to just take your vague word for it.

Life Expectancy has everything to do with healthcare regardless of your wishful thinking that it does not.

Were looking at total spending on healthcare as a percentage of GDP. The United States has the highest rate in the world. That is according to the CIA World Fact Book. The United States spends more as a percentage of GDP on health care, more per person on health care, than any country in the world. That's an indisputable fact. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that. The United States is 34th in life expectancy. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that fact. The United States does not provide health coverage for all its citizens while the Europeans do provide coverage. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that fact.

Europeans win when it comes to taking care of all of their citizens, they win in terms of how much they spend per person, they spend less than the United States, and finally they win on the most important metric of all which is life expectancy.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

If government controls prices we'll all pay less.

There won't be any new drugs, you fucking dumbass. Drug companies aren't going to invest billions of dollars if they can't recoup their costs.

'

I agree to a point, but drug patents are much too long, shorten the patent times and get generics into the market faster and everyone will benefit. the drug companies might end up making 40% profits instead of 60%

I agree the cost can be vastly reduced. Most of it is a result of regulations and the approval process. Of course, the left will fight that tooth and nail every step of the way.

YES. Laser eye surgery cost like $5k per eye 10 years ago. Now it is $800 per. Why? More doctors, more competition, no insurance interference.

I've seen ads that offer it for $300/per eye, but profit always makes things more expensive, right?

You're making my point. Just get the damn insurance companies out of the mix. It is crazy that I cannot go to the doctor with a sprained ankle and get a price for how much it will cost to get it bandaged and x-rayd. The answer is not more Gov't interference though.

 

[U2Edge]

Lol, how old are you?

Irrelevant. What I said is based on accurate economic statistics. There is a labor shortage that will eventually slow and hurt U.S. economic growth. Rising GDP must have a growing labor force to support it. Birthrate decline in the United States and the retirement of the babyboom generation means these extra workers will have to come from immigrants.

WRONG...because automation will fill many of those jobs. You're 20, right?

Yup. Even illegals will be out of work soon.

Well, if that were the case, we'd have rising levels of unemployment and no unfilled jobs. Reality is different. 4% unemployment and dropping, 7.3 million unfilled jobs. Robo-worker is failing miserably when it comes to making a dent in these figures.

Did you not see the robots?

Yep, I saw them. Still not making any dent in U.S. labor shortages though. 7.3 million unfilled jobs, lowest unemployment rate in half a century. Robo-workers have failed to prevent this from happening.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

France, where doctors went on strike for weeks, and people were left without care, not to mention people died of heat stroke in hospitals during a heat wave years back.

Germany, has a system of private insurance, the nearly all people are part of.

Moreover, nearly all those countries have double our tax rate.

Which is more expensive: Current insurance premiums, or a 50% tax rate on the middle class?

And yes, the fact is, if you want to support your argument, then you do have to explain why people come from all over the world from their 'free health care' systems, to pay for health care here.

If you can't, then whether you admit it, or believe it, you have undeniably lost the argument that free government care is better.

SOME PEOPLE come to the United States for healthcare. Some. Its a tiny percentage and not proof that the United States healthcare system is better.

Healthcare cost in Europe are about 1/2 to 2/3s of what they are in the United States. The Quality is better because the people there live longer. Everyone there is provided for. Its the three BIG WINS!

The United States can get the taxes it needs for Universal Healthcare from the top 20% of income earners who have 80% of the wealth in the country. Capital Gains, Property, Estate and other things besides just income will need to see increased tax rates. The Middle Class will only be lightly effected if at all by the increased tax rates. The lower class and the poor won't have to pay anything.

This is yet another example of the mythology that I'm talking about.

If what you said was true, then why isn't Europe doing that? You claim we can get all the money we need from the top 20%, right? Why isn't Europe doing that? Why are people in Denmark, who earn $40,000 a year, paying 50% income tax?

Why are people in France that earn $30,000 a year, paying 30% income taxes?

All over Europe, it isn't the rich and wealth, or the top 20%, or 10%, or 1% paying for health care.... it's the middle and lower class paying for it.

Do you know why France is having riots right now? It's because the government was trying to jack up taxes on fuel. They are already paying almost double in income tax, and they want to screw the lower and middle class over with fuel taxes.

Why? To pay for, among other things, their expensive health care system.

You keep telling everyone how it's cheaper... and then when I compare their insane taxes, to my health insurance premium... there is nothing cheaper about it.

You keep blabbering about how the rich and wealthy will pay for it... and then point to all these countries with it, where the poor and middle class are paying for it.

There is not one single example in this world, where the rich and wealthy, pay for the health care of the poor.

And maybe you missed it, but France tried a wealth tax, and the all the wealthy packed up and left.

And clearly you didn't get the memo, because Amazon was about to create 25,000 jobs in New York, and the politicians tried to get them to pay for a bunch of stuff.... and Amazon left, just like the wealthy of France started leaving, just like the wealthy of Venezuela left.

Your system doesn't work. How many hundreds of examples do you need, before you stop believing the mythology the left-wing spews at you?

The irony is, even some of the socialists in this country admit that universal health care would cost at least a 12% on everyone. And that's BS, because that's way to low.

As a percentage of GDP, your average European country spends about 11% of their GDP on healthcare. The United States by contrast spends 17% of its GDP on healthcare. Also consider that US GDP and US GDP per capita is higher on average than these European countries.

The Europeans spend less as a percentage of GDP, cover everyone in the country, and live longer on average than Americans. Those are the facts, and it shows that the Europeans WIN in all three categories.

Israel spends only 7% of its GDP on healthcare and everyone is provided and they live longer than Americans.

"Never mind your facts. I want to believe this is true, so I'm going to keep insisting on it!"

Life expectancy has nothing to do with healthcare. You've had this explained to you ad nauseam. Ergo, arguments about "We need to copy these countries because they live longer" is the same as you saying, "I have no argument, I just want it!"

Also, if you want to blather about healthcare expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you need to explain exactly which spending you're referring to, and provide sources. There is entirely too much loose, sloppy conflation of different healthcare spending numbers for anyone to just take your vague word for it.

Life Expectancy has everything to do with healthcare regardless of your wishful thinking that it does not.

Were looking at total spending on healthcare as a percentage of GDP. The United States has the highest rate in the world. That is according to the CIA World Fact Book. The United States spends more as a percentage of GDP on health care, more per person on health care, than any country in the world. That's an indisputable fact. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that. The United States is 34th in life expectancy. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that fact. The United States does not provide health coverage for all its citizens while the Europeans do provide coverage. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that fact.

Europeans win when it comes to taking care of all of their citizens, they win in terms of how much they spend per person, they spend less than the United States, and finally they win on the most important metric of all which is life expectancy.

Reactive vs. proactive. We are the FATTEST NATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And we still live to be 80 on average. LOL.

Europe doesn't spend on military.

You're losing badly.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Which restaurant would you rather go to?

1. An establishment that wanted your business so that they could make money

2. An establishment run by government bureaucrats that didn't give a shit if you showed up or not

Which one do you think you would get the better food?

This is not a trick question.

Getting sick and dying is not a choice, its a reality of life. To allow an industry to profit from something that is not a choice for the individual is immoral and terrible policy. With all this money spent on healthcare In the US for profit system, the country ranks #34 in life expectancy. All that money spent for such a low ranking proves the system is terrible and is bankrupting the country without providing any good results

Oh, give me a break. You leftist jackwads want to make profiting from ANYTHING immoral. Maybe you ought to revisit your half-assed definition of "immoral". The fact of life is that nearly everyone on Earth has to spend the majority of their waking hours acquiring what they themselves need. What is more sensible, acquiring your own needs by providing for the needs of others, or everyone acquiring their own needs by doing frivolous, useless things and then ALSO finding extra time to take care of others?

For all that your vague aspirations toward universal altruism make YOU feel like you're a good person - erroneously - my version has the virtue of being practical and actually working.

I'm continuing to shit on and ignore your insistence on "proving" your argument by making statements about something you've been told is irrelevant, just so you know. "But life expectancy, so I'm RIGHT!" = "I just want it, so give it to me!"

 

[Cecilie1200]

"Free"??? Really? LOL!

You aren't that stupid are you? Nobody is that stupid.

Well, it’s paid out of general tax revenues, but free when you go to hospital.

So if you don't pay at the doctor then it is free?

Then in that case I get free treatment here in the US because I never have to pay a co payment or deductible with my insurance policy.

By the way there ain't so such thing as a free lunch. All Libertarians know that. The Canadians have about 20% higher taxes than we do.

We pay taxes and health insurance, and it depends where you live for how much tax you pay, just like here. But in Canada, everyone is covered, and they don’t care for people for profit.

Yes they do or they wouldn’t have private insurance, and there’d be A LOT more specialists. In Canada you get your spine fused together, in America you actually get a new disk, and it’s life changing. In Canada you have to wait to get subpar cancer treatment, in America you could go to a mid-grade ranked hospital/cancer center and get way better treatment the day of. It’s not at all the same quality of care or else there wouldn’t medical tourism. I work at an infusion center, over 4 hours from the border. I see patients who wake up at 1 in the morning to drive to our facility for a midday appointment, just to sit in a chair for 4 hours for their chemo infusion, and then drive back. They consider themselves the lucky ones. We’re ranked like top 10 in PA alone, so not exactly world beaters. Surprise surprise, most of my American patients aren’t at all wealthy, barely middle class. Healthcare coverage is not at all the same as healthcare, people need to stop conflating the two.

Yet the United States is 34th in life expectancy. People live longer in Canada than in the United States. Those facts say more than any of your personal anecdotal experiences.

I just heard, "I want it, so there!"

 

[U2Edge]

Argentina is in South America, not Europe.

Yes, but allot of rich Europe like there. People from Europe move to and live in Argentina. Don’t matter though because they all come here when they can afford it because they can get treated for life threatening Iillness because they have to wait for simple diagnostic procedures. And things like chemo therapy.

Yep, but that's a tiny minority. Its irrelevant to whether which country is doing healthcare better overall for its entire population.

Your issue is that healthcare is not as strong for the "poor". Agreed? You think it is perfectly fine for the middle class and the wealthy. Correct?

No, its not fine for the middle class and wealthy in the United States although those groups fair better in terms of the overall experience than the poor. The United States is being bankrupted by the way it does healthcare, the for profit healthcare industry. Were spending nearly 5 times on healthcare what we spend on national defense. Healthcare is too expensive, wasteful and provides only marginal benefits in the United States.

Not really. Illegal alien are bankrupting healthcare. That and stupid schemes in Obamacare.

Illegal aliens provide far more benefit to the U.S. economy overall than any cost they add to healthcare. We need far more latin Americans to come to this country whether they are illegal or not in order to grow and sustain economic growth in this country. Its a demographic reality many people do not understand, largely for ideological and racial reasons.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Let me ask you this:

Timely Medical | Timely Surgery at Affordable Prices

This is a company. It's a company operating out of Canada. The entire purpose of this company, is to setup patient, primarily in Canada, with doctors and hospitals in the US.

They charge money, obviously to provide this service.
This is an additional charge to the cost of getting whatever treatment or surgery they get in the US.

The company was started by a Canadian doctor, who was fed up watching patients die while waiting.

So my question to you is this.....

Canada has universal care, that is "free". Please explain to me how Timely medical can find enough consistent flow of customers, willing to pay thousands of dollars for surgery in the US, and to pay them to set them up for that surgery.... if those same customers can all get surgery for 'free'?

If government run health care is so great in Canada, how can this company started by a Canadian doctor, end up with thousands of customers every year willing to pay for health care? How can they find enough people willing to spend thousands of dollar for health care, to escape their Canadian system if it is so great?

Can you explain that to me?

Don't have to. These little individual examples, whether they are true or not, are irrelevant. What matters is the overall averages on life expectancy and the countries that provide Universal Healthcare. Look FRANCE, GERMANY, SWEDEN, NORWAY, ITALY etc. Most people in the top 50 most developed countries in the world stay in their own countries when it comes to healthcare. At least 34 of those countries citizens live longer than Americans on average. One's personal experience, or some off hand example will not change that reality.

France, where doctors went on strike for weeks, and people were left without care, not to mention people died of heat stroke in hospitals during a heat wave years back.

Germany, has a system of private insurance, the nearly all people are part of.

Moreover, nearly all those countries have double our tax rate.

Which is more expensive: Current insurance premiums, or a 50% tax rate on the middle class?

And yes, the fact is, if you want to support your argument, then you do have to explain why people come from all over the world from their 'free health care' systems, to pay for health care here.

If you can't, then whether you admit it, or believe it, you have undeniably lost the argument that free government care is better.

SOME PEOPLE come to the United States for healthcare. Some. Its a tiny percentage and not proof that the United States healthcare system is better.

Healthcare cost in Europe are about 1/2 to 2/3s of what they are in the United States. The Quality is better because the people there live longer. Everyone there is provided for. Its the three BIG WINS!

The United States can get the taxes it needs for Universal Healthcare from the top 20% of income earners who have 80% of the wealth in the country. Capital Gains, Property, Estate and other things besides just income will need to see increased tax rates. The Middle Class will only be lightly effected if at all by the increased tax rates. The lower class and the poor won't have to pay anything.

bullshit. have you been to any European countries? I have. The quality is NOT better.

Yes, I have been to Europe. But your anecdotal experience is irrelevant to the raw facts of average life expectancy.

You would know about irrelevance, given that you keep yammering about life expectancy like it has anything to do with healthcare.

 

[U2Edge]

Well, it’s paid out of general tax revenues, but free when you go to hospital.

So if you don't pay at the doctor then it is free?

Then in that case I get free treatment here in the US because I never have to pay a co payment or deductible with my insurance policy.

By the way there ain't so such thing as a free lunch. All Libertarians know that. The Canadians have about 20% higher taxes than we do.

We pay taxes and health insurance, and it depends where you live for how much tax you pay, just like here. But in Canada, everyone is covered, and they don’t care for people for profit.

Yes they do or they wouldn’t have private insurance, and there’d be A LOT more specialists. In Canada you get your spine fused together, in America you actually get a new disk, and it’s life changing. In Canada you have to wait to get subpar cancer treatment, in America you could go to a mid-grade ranked hospital/cancer center and get way better treatment the day of. It’s not at all the same quality of care or else there wouldn’t medical tourism. I work at an infusion center, over 4 hours from the border. I see patients who wake up at 1 in the morning to drive to our facility for a midday appointment, just to sit in a chair for 4 hours for their chemo infusion, and then drive back. They consider themselves the lucky ones. We’re ranked like top 10 in PA alone, so not exactly world beaters. Surprise surprise, most of my American patients aren’t at all wealthy, barely middle class. Healthcare coverage is not at all the same as healthcare, people need to stop conflating the two.

Yet the United States is 34th in life expectancy. People live longer in Canada than in the United States. Those facts say more than any of your personal anecdotal experiences.

I just heard, "I want it, so there!"

Its a fact. If that's how you deal with the facts, so be it.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

Yes, but allot of rich Europe like there. People from Europe move to and live in Argentina. Don’t matter though because they all come here when they can afford it because they can get treated for life threatening Iillness because they have to wait for simple diagnostic procedures. And things like chemo therapy.

Yep, but that's a tiny minority. Its irrelevant to whether which country is doing healthcare better overall for its entire population.

Your issue is that healthcare is not as strong for the "poor". Agreed? You think it is perfectly fine for the middle class and the wealthy. Correct?

No, its not fine for the middle class and wealthy in the United States although those groups fair better in terms of the overall experience than the poor. The United States is being bankrupted by the way it does healthcare, the for profit healthcare industry. Were spending nearly 5 times on healthcare what we spend on national defense. Healthcare is too expensive, wasteful and provides only marginal benefits in the United States.

Not really. Illegal alien are bankrupting healthcare. That and stupid schemes in Obamacare.

Illegal aliens provide far more benefit to the U.S. economy overall than any cost they add to healthcare. We need far more latin Americans to come to this country whether they are illegal or not in order to grow and sustain economic growth in this country. Its a demographic reality many people do not understand, largely for ideological and racial reasons.

"We need far more latin Americans to come to this country whether they are illegal or not"

Illogical. Simply illogical. How long to sing this song?

 

[U2Edge]

Don't have to. These little individual examples, whether they are true or not, are irrelevant. What matters is the overall averages on life expectancy and the countries that provide Universal Healthcare. Look FRANCE, GERMANY, SWEDEN, NORWAY, ITALY etc. Most people in the top 50 most developed countries in the world stay in their own countries when it comes to healthcare. At least 34 of those countries citizens live longer than Americans on average. One's personal experience, or some off hand example will not change that reality.

France, where doctors went on strike for weeks, and people were left without care, not to mention people died of heat stroke in hospitals during a heat wave years back.

Germany, has a system of private insurance, the nearly all people are part of.

Moreover, nearly all those countries have double our tax rate.

Which is more expensive: Current insurance premiums, or a 50% tax rate on the middle class?

And yes, the fact is, if you want to support your argument, then you do have to explain why people come from all over the world from their 'free health care' systems, to pay for health care here.

If you can't, then whether you admit it, or believe it, you have undeniably lost the argument that free government care is better.

SOME PEOPLE come to the United States for healthcare. Some. Its a tiny percentage and not proof that the United States healthcare system is better.

Healthcare cost in Europe are about 1/2 to 2/3s of what they are in the United States. The Quality is better because the people there live longer. Everyone there is provided for. Its the three BIG WINS!

The United States can get the taxes it needs for Universal Healthcare from the top 20% of income earners who have 80% of the wealth in the country. Capital Gains, Property, Estate and other things besides just income will need to see increased tax rates. The Middle Class will only be lightly effected if at all by the increased tax rates. The lower class and the poor won't have to pay anything.

bullshit. have you been to any European countries? I have. The quality is NOT better.

Yes, I have been to Europe. But your anecdotal experience is irrelevant to the raw facts of average life expectancy.

You would know about irrelevance, given that you keep yammering about life expectancy like it has anything to do with healthcare.

Healthcare has everything to do with life expectancy regardless of how much you wish it didn't.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Which restaurant would you rather go to?

1. An establishment that wanted your business so that they could make money

2. An establishment run by government bureaucrats that didn't give a shit if you showed up or not

Which one do you think you would get the better food?

This is not a trick question.

What if I don’t have any money?

Go earn the money to pay for your meal then you won't be hungry.

We don’t need universal healthcare for people like you and me.

If money is no object I’ll go to the most expensive restaurant

You wouldn't want to eat at a government run restaurant especially if they have a near monopoly. You would have the choice between mush and gruel and it would free in the restaurant but your taxes would go up 20%.

It is not my responsibility to pay other people's bills. It is their responsibility.

The United States military certainly eats very well. They are also #1 at what they do. The for Profit US Healthcare industry ranks #34 in the world.

Remind me to get right on caring about a ranking based on how much socialism the system has.

 

[Cecilie1200]

70% probably support free booze too. Everyone likes free stuff, but the hard cold truth is that nothing is free. Do you really want your medical care decided by a marginally intelligent GS5 sitting in a cubicle in bangla desh? Because that's what you are asking for, and if you don't think the admin of it would be outsourced you are dumber than I thought.

Can you show me which UHC countries outsource their health care decisions to Bangladesh?


Thanks.

can you tell me which of those countries have 330,000,000 people and 20 million illegals? Comparing the US to Norway is like comparing a mouse to an elephant.

Well, then lets compare the 300,000,000 million people who live in Germany, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom and France to the United States. Would you consider that fair?

How many people die from automobile accidents in the US? How many in all those other countries whose people get around by train and such? How many people die from gun shots, or overdoses of heroine that come across the southern border? yeah, make sure not to put those statistics into your "Europeans live longer bullshit"..When you have diseased illegal hordes crossing the border that doesnt help your cause, when they take up plenty of healthcare resources that normally would go to a US citizen.

There are no illegal hordes crossing the border. That's a fairytale told by Trump tards. The number of people crossing the border from Mexico has been dropping for the past several decades. US deaths from automobile accidents have also significantly declined over the past 4 decades. So have homicides. Europeans on the other hand drink and smoke more than Americans.

How long have you lived near the border?

 

[bripat9643]

France, where doctors went on strike for weeks, and people were left without care, not to mention people died of heat stroke in hospitals during a heat wave years back.

Germany, has a system of private insurance, the nearly all people are part of.

Moreover, nearly all those countries have double our tax rate.

Which is more expensive: Current insurance premiums, or a 50% tax rate on the middle class?

And yes, the fact is, if you want to support your argument, then you do have to explain why people come from all over the world from their 'free health care' systems, to pay for health care here.

If you can't, then whether you admit it, or believe it, you have undeniably lost the argument that free government care is better.

SOME PEOPLE come to the United States for healthcare. Some. Its a tiny percentage and not proof that the United States healthcare system is better.

Healthcare cost in Europe are about 1/2 to 2/3s of what they are in the United States. The Quality is better because the people there live longer. Everyone there is provided for. Its the three BIG WINS!

The United States can get the taxes it needs for Universal Healthcare from the top 20% of income earners who have 80% of the wealth in the country. Capital Gains, Property, Estate and other things besides just income will need to see increased tax rates. The Middle Class will only be lightly effected if at all by the increased tax rates. The lower class and the poor won't have to pay anything.

This is yet another example of the mythology that I'm talking about.

If what you said was true, then why isn't Europe doing that? You claim we can get all the money we need from the top 20%, right? Why isn't Europe doing that? Why are people in Denmark, who earn $40,000 a year, paying 50% income tax?

Why are people in France that earn $30,000 a year, paying 30% income taxes?

All over Europe, it isn't the rich and wealth, or the top 20%, or 10%, or 1% paying for health care.... it's the middle and lower class paying for it.

Do you know why France is having riots right now? It's because the government was trying to jack up taxes on fuel. They are already paying almost double in income tax, and they want to screw the lower and middle class over with fuel taxes.

Why? To pay for, among other things, their expensive health care system.

You keep telling everyone how it's cheaper... and then when I compare their insane taxes, to my health insurance premium... there is nothing cheaper about it.

You keep blabbering about how the rich and wealthy will pay for it... and then point to all these countries with it, where the poor and middle class are paying for it.

There is not one single example in this world, where the rich and wealthy, pay for the health care of the poor.

And maybe you missed it, but France tried a wealth tax, and the all the wealthy packed up and left.

And clearly you didn't get the memo, because Amazon was about to create 25,000 jobs in New York, and the politicians tried to get them to pay for a bunch of stuff.... and Amazon left, just like the wealthy of France started leaving, just like the wealthy of Venezuela left.

Your system doesn't work. How many hundreds of examples do you need, before you stop believing the mythology the left-wing spews at you?

The irony is, even some of the socialists in this country admit that universal health care would cost at least a 12% on everyone. And that's BS, because that's way to low.

As a percentage of GDP, your average European country spends about 11% of their GDP on healthcare. The United States by contrast spends 17% of its GDP on healthcare. Also consider that US GDP and US GDP per capita is higher on average than these European countries.

The Europeans spend less as a percentage of GDP, cover everyone in the country, and live longer on average than Americans. Those are the facts, and it shows that the Europeans WIN in all three categories.

Israel spends only 7% of its GDP on healthcare and everyone is provided and they live longer than Americans.

"Never mind your facts. I want to believe this is true, so I'm going to keep insisting on it!"

Life expectancy has nothing to do with healthcare. You've had this explained to you ad nauseam. Ergo, arguments about "We need to copy these countries because they live longer" is the same as you saying, "I have no argument, I just want it!"

Also, if you want to blather about healthcare expenditures as a percentage of GDP, you need to explain exactly which spending you're referring to, and provide sources. There is entirely too much loose, sloppy conflation of different healthcare spending numbers for anyone to just take your vague word for it.

Life Expectancy has everything to do with healthcare regardless of your wishful thinking that it does not.

Were looking at total spending on healthcare as a percentage of GDP. The United States has the highest rate in the world. That is according to the CIA World Fact Book. The United States spends more as a percentage of GDP on health care, more per person on health care, than any country in the world. That's an indisputable fact. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that. The United States is 34th in life expectancy. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that fact. The United States does not provide health coverage for all its citizens while the Europeans do provide coverage. No anecdotal evidence or examples can rebut that fact.

Europeans win when it comes to taking care of all of their citizens, they win in terms of how much they spend per person, they spend less than the United States, and finally they win on the most important metric of all which is life expectancy.

Actually, the quality of healthcare does not have much to do with life expectancy. Once you get over the basic stuff, like having antibiotics and vaccinations, the rest hardly makes a noticeable dent. The big improvements in life expectancy came when cities improved their sanitation, when our diets improved, and when vaccinations were developed for all the major childhood diseases.

 

[AzogtheDefiler]

People in the US are also taller/larger on average...shorter/thinner people live longer. 80 is pretty damn good!

 

[Crixus]

Yes, but allot of rich Europe like there. People from Europe move to and live in Argentina. Don’t matter though because they all come here when they can afford it because they can get treated for life threatening Iillness because they have to wait for simple diagnostic procedures. And things like chemo therapy.

Yep, but that's a tiny minority. Its irrelevant to whether which country is doing healthcare better overall for its entire population.

Your issue is that healthcare is not as strong for the "poor". Agreed? You think it is perfectly fine for the middle class and the wealthy. Correct?

No, its not fine for the middle class and wealthy in the United States although those groups fair better in terms of the overall experience than the poor. The United States is being bankrupted by the way it does healthcare, the for profit healthcare industry. Were spending nearly 5 times on healthcare what we spend on national defense. Healthcare is too expensive, wasteful and provides only marginal benefits in the United States.

Not really. Illegal alien are bankrupting healthcare. That and stupid schemes in Obamacare.

Illegal aliens provide far more benefit to the U.S. economy overall than any cost they add to healthcare. We need far more latin Americans to come to this country whether they are illegal or not in order to grow and sustain economic growth in this country. Its a demographic reality many people do not understand, largely for ideological and racial reasons.

So basically you support slavery to? No they don’t. They easily consume resources set aside for poor COTIZENS. They also burden our healthcare system with their exotic diseases they bring from their home countries. I bet you will deflect from those facts as well. When Automation takes the jobs from America’s poor that the illegals steal what then? You come of as those types who see a future America where there is a ruling class and a slave class.

 

[U2Edge]

Yep, but that's a tiny minority. Its irrelevant to whether which country is doing healthcare better overall for its entire population.

Your issue is that healthcare is not as strong for the "poor". Agreed? You think it is perfectly fine for the middle class and the wealthy. Correct?

No, its not fine for the middle class and wealthy in the United States although those groups fair better in terms of the overall experience than the poor. The United States is being bankrupted by the way it does healthcare, the for profit healthcare industry. Were spending nearly 5 times on healthcare what we spend on national defense. Healthcare is too expensive, wasteful and provides only marginal benefits in the United States.

Not really. Illegal alien are bankrupting healthcare. That and stupid schemes in Obamacare.

Illegal aliens provide far more benefit to the U.S. economy overall than any cost they add to healthcare. We need far more latin Americans to come to this country whether they are illegal or not in order to grow and sustain economic growth in this country. Its a demographic reality many people do not understand, largely for ideological and racial reasons.

"We need far more latin Americans to come to this country whether they are illegal or not"

Illogical. Simply illogical. How long to sing this song?

Its a demographic reality. A growing economy needs more workers. U.S. birth rates are down, and the babyboom population is leaving the workforce. The only way to make up the shortfall is more workers from latin America. Also, past on immigration laws from the past, most of these so called illegals would not be considered illegal.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Wow, you clowns always bring out that debunked talking point.

Get back to Me when they compare apples to apples. We are so diverse as a nation that life expectancy really isn't a viable metric of healthcare. In fact, it is a testament to how good our health services are that we rank that high at all.

How about you try being honest here. You're not talking about healthcare, your talking about other people picking up the tab for your own life.

Sure, why should a lowerclass person be forced to spend all their savings and go into debt just because they get sick? Is that good for the economy? Nope.

Life Expectancy is the most relevant metric that tells the truth about healthcare.

In biology, Diversity is the key to health and survival. Given how diverse the United States is, it should have the highest life expectancy in the world.

Life Expectancy is the most relevant metric that tells the truth about healthcare.
bullshit,you can have the best healthcare there is but if you dont take care of your self what good did it do you?...many Americans have access to great healthcare but dont take great care of themselves....factors for life expectancy has more to do with how you take care of yourself then if you have good healthcare...

Most of the citizens of developed countries have similar lifestyles. Quality of healthcare and access to it is a more important factor when comparing life expectancy among developed countries.

Finally, even if their healthcare is at best equal to ours in quality, at least they provide it to everyone. There is very little evidence to support that Europeans have significantly worse quality healthcare. On average they live longer. Their healthcare quality is either equal too or better than that of the United States. Plus they provide it to all their citizens. They also spend less on healthcare than the United States does.

No they don't.
How many European countries have you been to? How many homes..er...excuse me...tiny flats have you been in?
The average home size in America is over 2000 sq ft. That would be cavernous anywhere in Europe.
Most starter flats are as low as 400sq ft, then oh boy...you get to move up to 600 - 800.
Most of Europe is also exceptionally crowded.
Life expectancy??
Once again the clueless reigns. Americans eat shit.
We have, by far, the worst eating habits in the modern world.
I bet you didn't know that just under 70 cents of every dollar spent for healthcare in America is a food related illness. Heart conditions/Diabetes/arterial diseases/many cancers are directly related to a sedentary lifestyle with horrendously poor diets.
Indeed. Only in America can a person be both obese and malnourished.

The Americans who tend to be obese and malnourished live either in poverty or the lower class. Universal Healthcare would go a long way to mending that problem.

No, it wouldn't, unless you're planning to force everyone onto diet regimens at the point of a gun. Americans don't have crappy nutrition because they don't have the ability to eat healthy; they have crappy nutrition because they choose to.

As much as I know you hate it, you can't control other people's lives for them.