The Age of Corporate Treason

[JoeNormal]

That would be because the government has incentivized spending and dis-incentivized saving, thus corporations are given the signal that people are more interested in purchasing now rather than in the future. Meaning that they have no reason to attempt any truly long-term forecasting, since they must provide for the present.

Seems like a pretty weak argument. Unless they feel there's no future market for their products, they'd better plan something. The impetus behind the short term thinking we see today is the musical chairs nature of life at the top of the corporate ladder. These guys just want to make bank and then make a hasty retreat.

So they're greedy evildoers, but they're willing to "make a hasty retreat" and stop making money at some point? That makes no sense. As for my explanation being a weak argument, yours makes two contradictory claims: That businessmen are both insatiably greedy and that they would be content with making a quick buck.

The individuals at the top want to get their huge bonuses before either the shit hits the fan or they're ousted. I've seen it personally many times.

 

[JoeNormal]

Ralph Nader???? are you kidding? the guy has been a fool since the 1970s.

Want to expand on that a bit?

 

[Redfish]

Ralph Nader???? are you kidding? the guy has been a fool since the 1970s.

Want to expand on that a bit?

not really, if you want to know about nader and his foolishness, google him. I am not here to teach history to you.

 

[JoeNormal]

These are some valid points but it calls into question, the size of projects that can be pulled off. The pure brand of capitalism in which a miscalculation results in bankruptcy would preclude the creation of anything as complex as an MRI, or jet fighter, or commercial jet, or mega-ship... And without the initial government sponsored R&D efforts, the basic technologies for these things wouldn't exist anyway.

Nonsense. Go check out a few of the GNU licensed projects.

There wouldn't be any GNU licensed projects if DARPA hadn't created the Internet.

 

[JoeNormal]

You see no value in patriotism?

That not only is obvious it seems to be typical of the mindset of the current breed of right-wing Libertarians and indoctrinated water-carriers for the corporatocracy. It is a surprising and peculiar phenomenon.

There's nothing "patriotic" about paying more taxes than the law requires - not one thing.

Interesting conundrum. You get your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make tax avoidance legal and then suddenly, they're doing nothing illegal. Makes sense if you're an idiot, I suppose.

 

[JoeNormal]

Ralph Nader???? are you kidding? the guy has been a fool since the 1970s.

Want to expand on that a bit?

not really, if you want to know about nader and his foolishness, google him. I am not here to teach history to you.

I've been aware of Nader since I was a kid and he was railing against the Corvair. I doubt your knowledge of recent history is as detailed as mine.

 

[Redfish]

Want to expand on that a bit?

not really, if you want to know about nader and his foolishness, google him. I am not here to teach history to you.

I've been aware of Nader since I was a kid and he was railing against the Corvair. I doubt your knowledge of recent history is as detailed as mine.

what? you want to have a history test? I had one of Nader's "unsafe at any speed" Corvairs. It was a shitty car, but not a rolling death trap like ralphy boy claimed.

it was detroit's attempt to counter the VW and it failed. So did the Edsel and the Kaiser and the Henry J.

don't try history trivia with me, I will make you look like a foolish child.

 

[The Rabbi]

Seems like a pretty weak argument. Unless they feel there's no future market for their products, they'd better plan something. The impetus behind the short term thinking we see today is the musical chairs nature of life at the top of the corporate ladder. These guys just want to make bank and then make a hasty retreat.

So they're greedy evildoers, but they're willing to "make a hasty retreat" and stop making money at some point? That makes no sense. As for my explanation being a weak argument, yours makes two contradictory claims: That businessmen are both insatiably greedy and that they would be content with making a quick buck.

The individuals at the top want to get their huge bonuses before either the shit hits the fan or they're ousted. I've seen it personally many times.

Confirmation bias.
The fact that you've "seen it many times" doesn't mean you can generalize to all of American business. I guess those Germans, French, and Japanese executives aren't greedy.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Seems like a pretty weak argument. Unless they feel there's no future market for their products, they'd better plan something. The impetus behind the short term thinking we see today is the musical chairs nature of life at the top of the corporate ladder. These guys just want to make bank and then make a hasty retreat.

So they're greedy evildoers, but they're willing to "make a hasty retreat" and stop making money at some point? That makes no sense. As for my explanation being a weak argument, yours makes two contradictory claims: That businessmen are both insatiably greedy and that they would be content with making a quick buck.

The individuals at the top want to get their huge bonuses before either the shit hits the fan or they're ousted. I've seen it personally many times.

Subjective anecdotal nonsense. The people at the top want to make money, no doubt, and they know the best way to do that is to avoid letting the shit hit the fan or getting ousted.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That not only is obvious it seems to be typical of the mindset of the current breed of right-wing Libertarians and indoctrinated water-carriers for the corporatocracy. It is a surprising and peculiar phenomenon.

There's nothing "patriotic" about paying more taxes than the law requires - not one thing.

Interesting conundrum. You get your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make tax avoidance legal and then suddenly, they're doing nothing illegal. Makes sense if you're an idiot, I suppose.

As opposed to you getting your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make people pay more taxes and then, suddenly, they're doing something illegal by keeping their own money?

 

[MikeK]

You see no value in patriotism?

That not only is obvious it seems to be typical of the mindset of the current breed of right-wing Libertarians and indoctrinated water-carriers for the corporatocracy. It is a surprising and peculiar phenomenon.

Yeah, don't reply to anything that I actually said. Who needs substance?

(Quote: Kevin Kennedy)

"The only obligation any corporation has is to its customers, geography notwithstanding."

(Close quote)

In terms of legal obligations you are for the most part correct. But the only reason many corporations are able to circumvent their tax obligation (by sheltering income offshore) is their lobbied influence (bribery) on the Congress to adjust the IRS Code in ways which accommodate corporate interests.

Considering that all money earned by American corporations is the result of exploiting this Nation's natural, material, administrative, and human resources, along with the fact that these corporations could not have achieved the same success anywhere else in the world, it seems pretty clear they are substantially obligated to the U.S. and should be paying quite a bit more in taxes than they presently are getting away with.

This notion Libertarians have that no one, neither individuals nor corporations, owe this Nation anything is part of that party's philosophy that turns me and many other Americans away from it. I agree with you Libertarians on many issues but we part company when it comes to the knee-jerk anti-government, anti-socialist mindset.

So you might wish to modify your comment to specify legal obligation -- and then add some commentary on a corporation's moral obligation to the Nation that fostered it.

 

[MikeK]

There's nothing "patriotic" about paying more taxes than the law requires - not one thing.

Interesting conundrum. You get your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make tax avoidance legal and then suddenly, they're doing nothing illegal. Makes sense if you're an idiot, I suppose.

As opposed to you getting your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make people pay more taxes and then, suddenly, they're doing something illegal by keeping their own money?

10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year:
10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year: Report

What was your tax rate last year?

If you are an ordinary working class American it was more than twice that of the corporations. So you need to find a more effective lobbyist.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Interesting conundrum. You get your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make tax avoidance legal and then suddenly, they're doing nothing illegal. Makes sense if you're an idiot, I suppose.

As opposed to you getting your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make people pay more taxes and then, suddenly, they're doing something illegal by keeping their own money?

10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year:
10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year: Report

What was your tax rate last year?

If you are an ordinary working class American it was more than twice that of the corporations. So you need to find a more effective lobbyist.

and good for them.

 

[The Rabbi]

That not only is obvious it seems to be typical of the mindset of the current breed of right-wing Libertarians and indoctrinated water-carriers for the corporatocracy. It is a surprising and peculiar phenomenon.

Yeah, don't reply to anything that I actually said. Who needs substance?

(Quote: Kevin Kennedy)

"The only obligation any corporation has is to its customers, geography notwithstanding."

(Close quote)

In terms of legal obligations you are for the most part correct. But the only reason many corporations are able to circumvent their tax obligation (by sheltering income offshore) is their lobbied influence (bribery) on the Congress to adjust the IRS Code in ways which accommodate corporate interests.

Considering that all money earned by American corporations is the result of exploiting this Nation's natural, material, administrative, and human resources, along with the fact that these corporations could not have achieved the same success anywhere else in the world, it seems pretty clear they are substantially obligated to the U.S. and should be paying quite a bit more in taxes than they presently are getting away with.

This notion Libertarians have that no one, neither individuals nor corporations, owe this Nation anything is part of that party's philosophy that turns me and many other Americans away from it. I agree with you Libertarians on many issues but we part company when it comes to the knee-jerk anti-government, anti-socialist mindset.

So you might wish to modify your comment to specify legal obligation -- and then add some commentary on a corporation's moral obligation to the Nation that fostered it.

I'm not a narco libertarian and I still think you're full of shit. Corporations pay plenty of taxes and employ people. They are not exploiting anything. Everyone is made better by their actions.
Therefore they have no obligation to pay more taxes than what they owe. In fact they have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders that would prohibit them from doing that. They would open themselves to sharehholder lawsuits, rightfully so, if they did not take every tax break they could.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

That not only is obvious it seems to be typical of the mindset of the current breed of right-wing Libertarians and indoctrinated water-carriers for the corporatocracy. It is a surprising and peculiar phenomenon.

Yeah, don't reply to anything that I actually said. Who needs substance?

(Quote: Kevin Kennedy)

"The only obligation any corporation has is to its customers, geography notwithstanding."

(Close quote)

In terms of legal obligations you are for the most part correct. But the only reason many corporations are able to circumvent their tax obligation (by sheltering income offshore) is their lobbied influence (bribery) on the Congress to adjust the IRS Code in ways which accommodate corporate interests.

Considering that all money earned by American corporations is the result of exploiting this Nation's natural, material, administrative, and human resources, along with the fact that these corporations could not have achieved the same success anywhere else in the world, it seems pretty clear they are substantially obligated to the U.S. and should be paying quite a bit more in taxes than they presently are getting away with.

This notion Libertarians have that no one, neither individuals nor corporations, owe this Nation anything is part of that party's philosophy that turns me and many other Americans away from it. I agree with you Libertarians on many issues but we part company when it comes to the knee-jerk anti-government, anti-socialist mindset.

So you might wish to modify your comment to specify legal obligation -- and then add some commentary on a corporation's moral obligation to the Nation that fostered it.

There is no moral obligation to the nation because the "nation" is a fiction. There is no such entity. Nor did they "exploit" the "nation's" resources. They used their legally acquired property as they saw fit to turn a profit, which was only possible because their customers were made better off by their product.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Interesting conundrum. You get your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make tax avoidance legal and then suddenly, they're doing nothing illegal. Makes sense if you're an idiot, I suppose.

As opposed to you getting your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make people pay more taxes and then, suddenly, they're doing something illegal by keeping their own money?

10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year:
10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year: Report

What was your tax rate last year?

If you are an ordinary working class American it was more than twice that of the corporations. So you need to find a more effective lobbyist.

How about we just make everybody's tax rate 0%?

 

[whitehall]

An "excellent article" (about capitalism) by Ralph Nader is a pure example of an oxymoron.

 

[Wyatt earp]

As opposed to you getting your highly paid lobbyists to write laws that make people pay more taxes and then, suddenly, they're doing something illegal by keeping their own money?

10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year:
10 Most Profitable U.S. Corporations Paid Average Tax Rate Of Just 9 Percent Last Year: Report

What was your tax rate last year?

If you are an ordinary working class American it was more than twice that of the corporations. So you need to find a more effective lobbyist.

How about we just make everybody's tax rate 0%?

just give them a tax holiday of 3 months or so and they will see for themselfs how much they pay? lol they would be pissed off when the holiday was over....

 

[Darkwind]

Wow. Talk about setting up a false premise.

 

[Wyatt earp]

but it would be funny....