The Arctic is already effectively ice free

[Old Rocks]

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/NEWIMAGES/arctic.seaice.color.000.png

Of course, there are several satellites from differant nations now looking at the arctic ice. Hard for anyone to fudge the numbers or pictures. Unless, like so many of the 'Conservatives' on this board, you subscribe to some international cabal controlling all the scientists. LOL

 

[Socialist]

Look everybody, a bunch of americans on a random internet board know more then scientists.

 

[Billy_Bob]

The OP discusses what a scientist found when he went to the Arctic specifically to look at the ice and what he found. The OP discusses the differences between what the satellites think they see and what is actually floating around up there.

You've already heard ad infinitum how that wisp os CO2 is doing that Frank. I've asked you this before but you've never answered. What do YOU think is raising Arctic temperatures and melting all the ice? Or are you going to argue that the ice is all still there?

You do know that the Arctic and Antarctic have both been ice free many times over earths history.. The Roman Warm Period was one of those times.

So, you don't care that the Arctic is going ice free. You must not care, then, that the world is getting warmer. Neither must you care the sea level is rising and that weather extremes are becoming worse and more common.

The earth is cyclic and this is just one more cycle.

Look at the temperature data and show us the last time the Earth's temperature rose as rapidly as it has risen in the last century. Look at the CO2 data and show us the last time levels have risen as fast they have in the last century. Look at the ocean pH data dn show us the last time they have dropped as precipitously as they are dropping now. This is no fucking cycle. This is a goddamn catastrophe in the making and you're one of the idiots telling us not to worry.

What i think is hilarious

THERE'S NOTHING HILARIOUS HERE YOU GODDAMNED IDIOT

My children's world is going to be a pile of shit that could have been stopped, that could have been prevented were it not for worse than worthless shit-for-brains assholes like you.

Fools like you are making a clump of dirt into a mountain that it is not. Thanks for confirming that your a GOD DAMN IDIOT!

 

[Billy_Bob]

The human race is going to face a radical change in lifestyle. But it won't be caused by global warming. It will be caused by progressives forcing us into the dark ages because of their preternatural horror of overpopulation and warm weather. Obama's working overtime to #1, sharply cut our access to energy (read...HEAT and AIR CONDITIONING and REFRIGERATION and FOOD PRODUCTION) #2, establish government control of our food supply, #3 establish government oversight of reproduction and #4 establish government control of child rearing. We're going to be cold, starving, poor, childless, and really really uneducated. We'll be North Koreans.

I hope you're entertained by these fantasies. If you want to sell them to us, I suggest something along the lines of evidence.

Oh you ignorant fool... Try UN AGENDA 21... its been around for about 80 years now and the plan is well established. Only ignorant fools like you are being useful idiots in giving up all of our rights to ourselves and our nation.

 

[Billy_Bob]

Look everybody, a bunch of americans on a random internet board know more then scientists.

Some of us ARE scientists... most here like you are just fools who believe every lie that is handed down from their progressive masters, never thinking what the end result will be to their own lives..

 

[flacaltenn]

A whole bunch of real scientists that say there is, unlike certain poseurs on the internet.

They say WHAT OldieRocks? That the Earth's entire thermodynamic redistribution of heat can be described by a single Climate Sensitivity number? That ICED means only 15% coverage? What exactly are they saying?

MOST Of these stupid sea ice graphs only go BACK 30 or 40 years.. What the fuck does that have to do with Climate Science? We have KNOWN Arctic Oscillations that are longer and older than that.. I know YOU are perfectly panicked by shit like that -- but I'm not. And in reality -- I'll wager that MOST of the scientists are not panicked either. They are just supplying political cover for USING these factoids to panic YOU and get policies implemented that fit the Greenish agenda..

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW -- I was working in space-based enviro science when grade schoolers had no idea what the environment was. Just one of the MANY different areas of science and engineering that I've been lucky enough to participate in during my careers..

 

[SillyWabbit]

Arctic Sea Ice and Al Gore s Prediction 2013
EXCERPT
Dr. Barber has been searching for 200-foot thick multiyear Arctic sea ice in the Beaufort Sea, an area of the Arctic Ocean that stretches for almost 1,000 miles along the coasts of Alaska and Canada.

For his research in summer 2010, he cruised through the Beaufort Sea in the ice breaker Amundsen and never did find that multiyear ice. What Barber's team did find was vastly different from what the satellites were telling them was there. They thought they would find 20- to 30-foot thick multiyear ice covering 7 percent to 9 percent of the Beaufort Sea.

Instead, they found 25 percent open water and very small remnant multiyear and first-year floes interspersed with thin new ice in between. Unfortunately, these satellite errors are not in our favor. The problem is because these conditions are new. They simply have not existed before, so there was no way to test for them and know that this sea icescape looks, to the eye of the satellite, exactly like a sea icescape that is thick and solid.7

The ice the Amundsen encountered was so rotten that it did not impede the forward progress of the ship. What they found was hundreds of miles of what Barber called "rotten ice." This was 20-inch layers of fresh ice covering small chunks of older ice.8This discovery came as a great surprise to this researcher as he cruised through the rotten ice of the Beaufort Sea at 14 miles per hour (the top speed of his vessel in open water is 15 miles per hour). The Amundsen was designed to break 1-meter thick sea ice (3.3 feet) at 3.4 miles per hour. The ice they found was so rotten that the Amundsen could break 19 to 26 feet of rotten multiyear ice at 5.7 miles per hour.9

EXCERPT
"Ship navigation across the pole is imminent as the type of ice which resides there is no longer a barrier to [normal] ships in the late summer and fall,"10

"If you want to ship across the pole, you're concerned about multiyear sea ice. You're not concerned about this rotten stuff we we're doing 13 knots through. It's easy to navigate through. I would argue that we almost have a seasonally ice-free Arctic now, because multiyear sea ice is the barrier to the use and development of the Arctic."11

The entire human race is about to face the most radical change in lifestyle it has ever seen. Most people are oblivious to it but it is near. Global Warming is right at the spot where we won't be able to reverse it, if we haven't already done past it. Once Runaway Global Warming begins the game is over.

There have been 5 major mass extinctions in the history of life on Earth, we are now in well into the beginning of the 6th.

Because governments around the world are generally run by the wealthy that don't want to give up their revenue streams, the rest of humanity will pay the price for the greed of these very few scumbags.

Of course the moment will come when the masses DO figure out how horrendous life is going to get and guess who they will be pointing at to string up on the maypole.

Well...

 

[Katzndogz]

Arctic ice has been increasing since 2013.

 

[westwall]

A whole bunch of real scientists that say there is, unlike certain poseurs on the internet.

Who are desperate for the cash that only flows so long as they write the crap their masters want them to. Truly olfraud, that is not a compelling argument.

 

[Crick]

Don't you think warmed waters might have an effect on the Arctic's ice pack? Scientists do.

And your continuing failure to understand the picture being painted here is getting a little frustrating Frank. The oceans have ALWAYS absorbed ~90% of the solar energy striking the Earth. There has been no enormous change - some changes, but it's not like it used to be 60% or 70%. It is determined by the properties of water vs air vs land. It's why firemen don't throw rocks at burning houses or bring fans to blow them out.

From undersea volcanoes, sure. Are you claiming that AGW is causing undersea volcanoes or can you show us how much of this imaginary "excess heat" was absorbed by the Arctic sea

The temperature of the ocean has risen Frank and its not from undersea volcanoes. Warmer waters mean it will be a little bit longer before the winter ice develops and it'll be a little sooner that it starts to melt.

 

[westwall]

Look everybody, a bunch of americans on a random internet board know more then scientists.

Certainly looks that way. We're not the ones stuck on an icebreaker in the middle of SUMMER!

 

[Billy_Bob]

Don't you think warmed waters might have an effect on the Arctic's ice pack? Scientists do.

And your continuing failure to understand the picture being painted here is getting a little frustrating Frank. The oceans have ALWAYS absorbed ~90% of the solar energy striking the Earth. There has been no enormous change - some changes, but it's not like it used to be 60% or 70%. It is determined by the properties of water vs air vs land. It's why firemen don't throw rocks at burning houses or bring fans to blow them out.

From undersea volcanoes, sure. Are you claiming that AGW is causing undersea volcanoes or can you show us how much of this imaginary "excess heat" was absorbed by the Arctic sea

The temperature of the ocean has risen Frank and its not from undersea volcanoes. Warmer waters mean it will be a little bit longer before the winter ice develops and it'll be a little sooner that it starts to melt.

Still spewing the 0.02 Deg C rise are we? Still within the MOE of the equipment in use.. Therefore, the probability of it being correct is very low.. IN-fact it could be quite the opposite..

 

[Crick]

You don't think there's anything special about the current drought in the southwest? It's broken records dating back centuries. Or do you think those are the lies of conspirators getting rich from drought measures?

No there isn't. What makes you think there is? I'm just wondering....

Because those projections you don't like to look at tell us that it is going to continue for a great long while, that there is a very good chance it will be the longest and most severe drought in this area in human history, that this lengthy, severe drought is going to occur in several different places around the world and that these droughts are a result of anthopogenic global warming.

That's what's different

 

[Crick]

Don't you think warmed waters might have an effect on the Arctic's ice pack? Scientists do.

And your continuing failure to understand the picture being painted here is getting a little frustrating Frank. The oceans have ALWAYS absorbed ~90% of the solar energy striking the Earth. There has been no enormous change - some changes, but it's not like it used to be 60% or 70%. It is determined by the properties of water vs air vs land. It's why firemen don't throw rocks at burning houses or bring fans to blow them out.

From undersea volcanoes, sure. Are you claiming that AGW is causing undersea volcanoes or can you show us how much of this imaginary "excess heat" was absorbed by the Arctic sea

The temperature of the ocean has risen Frank and its not from undersea volcanoes. Warmer waters mean it will be a little bit longer before the winter ice develops and it'll be a little sooner that it starts to melt.

Still spewing the 0.02 Deg C rise are we? Still within the MOE of the equipment in use.. Therefore, the probability of it being correct is very low.. IN-fact it could be quite the opposite..

You don't believe the ocean has warmed? Then you must think one hell of a lot of meltwater has runoff there that we know nothing about. The bulk of the rise in sea level is thermosteric, shit-for-brains. If you want to contend it's not getting warmer, you're going to have to also contend it's not rising. Good luck with that.

 

[Crick]

A whole bunch of real scientists that say there is, unlike certain poseurs on the internet.

Who are desperate for the cash that only flows so long as they write the crap their masters want them to. Truly olfraud, that is not a compelling argument.

Scientists in any field could make up lies to get grant money. Why is it only the climate scientists that you think do so? And why is it all of them?

 

[flacaltenn]

Look everybody, a bunch of americans on a random internet board know more then scientists.

Certainly looks that way. We're not the ones stuck on an icebreaker in the middle of SUMMER!

AND they are rescuing folks from Arctic ice who are no where NEAR the polar ice cap...

 

[westwall]

You don't think there's anything special about the current drought in the southwest? It's broken records dating back centuries. Or do you think those are the lies of conspirators getting rich from drought measures?

No there isn't. What makes you think there is? I'm just wondering....

Because those projections you don't like to look at tell us that it is going to continue for a great long while, that there is a very good chance it will be the longest and most severe drought in this area in human history, that this lengthy, severe drought is going to occur in several different places around the world and that these droughts are a result of anthopogenic global warming.

That's what's different

Projections aren't facts dude. We KNOW that there have been MULTIPLE droughts in California that have lasted for over 200 years. All in the last 1200 years. In other words....and I'm going to make this as simple as I possibly can given your lack of comprehension and critical thinking ability.....it's NORMAL!

Yes, you heard me. This is NORMAL. There is nothing going on that is in ANYWAY different from that which has happened before. NOTHING!

 

[Crick]

Arctic ice has been increasing since 2013.

Arctic ice has been decreasing since before we put up our first satellites (NSIDC and PIOMAS):

 

[westwall]

Arctic ice has been increasing since 2013.

Arctic ice has been decreasing since before we put up our first satellites (NSIDC and PIOMAS):

Oh lookey there, it's within the two standard deviation region that it has always been in. You were saying?