The Big Lie

[kaz]

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats,

It's not though. The South was completely controlled by racist democrats. There were non racist democrats but they were the minority.

The statues were put up by the racist Democrats in support of Jim Crow and the KKK, so the statues were put up by racist Democrats.

I suppose there were probably some non-racist Democrats at that time. Ironic, there are no non-racist Democrats today. Being Democrats they are supporting the racist Democrat party

Again not secret. History. Wilson, a Democrat, was a racist and a lot of his rhetoric and policies encourage the race riots in the 20's

Just like Biden today. Those damned multi colored schools, blacks are all the same and if you don't vote for him, according to him you're not black! And his VP pointed out he's a racist. Then Democrats nominated him and he picked her anyway!

Wow, Democrats are and always were racist

Hahahaha must irk you that voters of all colors voted Biden to victory over the Trumpybear.

You can't be racist if other races vote for you? Wow, that's stupid. Even for you

Don't hold back; Let all your frustrations out. Tell me how you really feel about America and our Constitution. When did you lose faith in the American Experiment?

Dude be tripping. So now you're wrapped up on how I feel and you're a mind reader.

Life is just full of disappointment for you, huh?

 

[Faun]

Your post does not contradict my point.



You lied about what he said. You lied about what he meant.

LOLOL

I quoted him, kazzer.

No shit, angry little boy. But you said what he was talking about, which wasn't the purpose of the march and wasn't part of his quote. You lied about what he was referring to.

My God you're stupid. No wonder you're constantly just maxing out at playground insults and posting like an eight year old

LOLOL

It was a racist rally, ya kazzer. Who among those racists are "very fine people?"

You see everything as racist, it's because you are one

LOL

I note you don't want to answer that question... who among the Unite the Right is a very fine person?

Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

I directly answered that question. You are a liar, Trump never said that.

Why do you hate black people? So?

LOLOL

You're kazzing again.

I didn't ask you what Trump said. I asked you who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

I'm asking you again... this makes 4 times I'm asking. Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

Were these very fine people...?

 

[Seawytch]

I don't like what you do Using libertarian to justify Democrat party fascism and totalitarian government and alibiing their racism is pretty pathetic

I'm not really using the term "libertarian" any more. Not on this board. I still think the word has meaning - a radically different meaning than your conception - but words mean what people mean when they use them. And what you mean when you say "libertarian" has, apparently, utterly nothing to do with what I mean when I use the term.

So, to avoid confusion, let me state clearly that whatever it is you mean by "libertarian" - I'm not it. Clear? I want exactly nothing to do with your Trumpster statist idiocy.

What a bunch of useless hot air. And again you disagree with EVERY libertarian on the board and are saying they aren't libertarians and leftists love you. You slap each other on the butt, high five each other and grove all the time. Even Faun, who is one of the most hate filled leftists on the board. He walks up and is like you're great. Mac. The list goes on. They love the Democrat party, they love you.

So, what do I believe that you think isn't small government libertarian? Be specific.

LOL

Dayum, it really bothers you that I find some common ground with some libertarians.

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

You're not the only totalitarian leftist who likes him. And he doesn't get along either with a single libertarian on the board.

Let him answer the question, I really would like to know how it makes sense that someone formerly called a libertarian resonates only with totalitarians

You kaz, i.e., lie, again. You're no libertarian. No real libertarian would have voted for Trump.

Another leftist who says I'm not a libertarian ... who can't come up with any examples ...

Yawn

Libertarians are just disenfranchised Republicans with a slight twist. Meh.

Democrats are just Nazis who miss the 1930s

So let me get this straight. Trump employs all of Hitler's tactics. Nationalism. Racism. Trump even starts his own Beer Hall Putsch. And you have the balls to call us Nazi's?

Hitler went to jail after his failed coup. Let's see if Trump follows the same path.

But also keep in mind Hitler came into power after he was let out of prison. At least in this country you can't run for POTUS if you are a convicted felon. That's why Republicans refuse to impeach him in the Senate.

Huh? What prevents a convicted felon of running for president, other than a felony of rebelling against the government?

I thought if he was convicted or impeached in the Senate then he couldn't run again.

If he was convicted of Impeachment, he could not run again; but that wouldn't make him a felon. A felon has to be convicted in a court of law and such people can run. Technically, a felon in prison could legally run, though it would make campaigning a bitch.

No, a felon could not run. You have to be a registered voter to run for office. I believe only one state allows felons to register.

 

[Seawytch]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

It was no lie, ya piece of shit. There was a rally of various racist rightwing groups, including, but not limited to, neonazis, neoconfederate, kkk, white nationalists and other assorted white supremacists. He condemned some of them but said others among them were "very fine people."

He clearly and explicitly stated that he was not referring to ws, but to the NON-ws who were there.

You know that. It has been repeatedly explained to you. YOU ARE LYING RIGHT NOW.


My point stands. IF the American voter had not been lied to, on such an epic scale, the vote would have been very different.

Different enough that the lie is effectively Fraud by Deception.

It was a racist rally, ya dumbfuck. There were no "NON-ws" there. There were no "very fine people" among the racists.

Trump clearly was on the opinion there were non-ws there, in support of the statues.

You know that. You are choosing to pretend to not know that, to lie.


That is my point.


You people sold the lie that one of the candidates was a fucking WHITE SUPREMACIST.


That made the electorate, not INFORMED AND FREE, but MISINFORMED.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.

And “your side” sold the lie that Hillary was a crook without any evidence. (There’s plenty of evidence that Donald Trump is a racist sympathizers or at least enabler)

HoistEd on your own petard.

 

[Faun]

OMG you're stupid. Right, the PEOPLE who are for or against the statues.

You're so stupid I'm starting to feel sorry for you. Wow, I did not see that coming

So this guy, who was there to support the statues, is a very fine person. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Faun]

I don't like what you do Using libertarian to justify Democrat party fascism and totalitarian government and alibiing their racism is pretty pathetic

I'm not really using the term "libertarian" any more. Not on this board. I still think the word has meaning - a radically different meaning than your conception - but words mean what people mean when they use them. And what you mean when you say "libertarian" has, apparently, utterly nothing to do with what I mean when I use the term.

So, to avoid confusion, let me state clearly that whatever it is you mean by "libertarian" - I'm not it. Clear? I want exactly nothing to do with your Trumpster statist idiocy.

What a bunch of useless hot air. And again you disagree with EVERY libertarian on the board and are saying they aren't libertarians and leftists love you. You slap each other on the butt, high five each other and grove all the time. Even Faun, who is one of the most hate filled leftists on the board. He walks up and is like you're great. Mac. The list goes on. They love the Democrat party, they love you.

So, what do I believe that you think isn't small government libertarian? Be specific.

LOL

Dayum, it really bothers you that I find some common ground with some libertarians.

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

You're not the only totalitarian leftist who likes him. And he doesn't get along either with a single libertarian on the board.

Let him answer the question, I really would like to know how it makes sense that someone formerly called a libertarian resonates only with totalitarians

You kaz, i.e., lie, again. You're no libertarian. No real libertarian would have voted for Trump.

Another leftist who says I'm not a libertarian ... who can't come up with any examples ...

Yawn

Libertarians are just disenfranchised Republicans with a slight twist. Meh.

Democrats are just Nazis who miss the 1930s

So let me get this straight. Trump employs all of Hitler's tactics. Nationalism. Racism. Trump even starts his own Beer Hall Putsch. And you have the balls to call us Nazi's?

Hitler went to jail after his failed coup. Let's see if Trump follows the same path.

But also keep in mind Hitler came into power after he was let out of prison. At least in this country you can't run for POTUS if you are a convicted felon. That's why Republicans refuse to impeach him in the Senate.

Huh? What prevents a convicted felon of running for president, other than a felony of rebelling against the government?

I thought if he was convicted or impeached in the Senate then he couldn't run again.

If he was convicted of Impeachment, he could not run again; but that wouldn't make him a felon. A felon has to be convicted in a court of law and such people can run. Technically, a felon in prison could legally run, though it would make campaigning a bitch.

No, a felon could not run. You have to be a registered voter to run for office. I believe only one state allows felons to register.

I hadn't considered that but I'm not sure that matters. For one, I don't know if felons lose their voters registration or if their names are simply taken off the voter roles. For another, I'm not sure a person has to be registered with a party to run for president. Especially given the only Constitutional requirements are at least 35 years of age, a natural born citizen, and not already served 2 terms.

 

[Correll]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

 

[Correll]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.


AND, as per the op, also intimidated.


Thus, not a legitimate election.

LOL

In Ukraine in 2016, Prosecutor General Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma or Hunter Biden when then VP Joe Biden pushed Poroshenko's hand to fire Shokin for corruption. Trump, Giuliani, and many on the right lied repeatedly by framing that as though that investigation was active and that Biden bribed Poroshenko.

That's fraud by deception, right?

Sorry, irrelevant minutia compared to the Lie that Trump is a ws.


You people ridicule us for our inability to make inroads in the minority vote and then go around telling lies that we are ws.


And you wonder why we think you are all scum of the earth.

 

[Correll]

Your post does not contradict my point.



You lied about what he said. You lied about what he meant.


You told the American voters, that the President said that ws were "very fine people:.


That if true, would be a valid and huge point AGAINST him by the vast majority of voters.


ANd you made it stick.


That makes the election, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.

Nope, the liar and idiot is you. Trump never said he thought there were non-racists there. You're saying that for him because you want to believe that but he never said that. Nor was there a reason to belive that because it was a racist rally held by racists.

From the guy who already lied about what Trumps said, LOL.

Now you're not only a mind reader but you're debating for Trump on what he meant. You're full of shit, racist

LOLOL

I quoted him, kazzer.

No shit, angry little boy. But you said what he was talking about, which wasn't the purpose of the march and wasn't part of his quote. You lied about what he was referring to.

My God you're stupid. No wonder you're constantly just maxing out at playground insults and posting like an eight year old

LOLOL

It was a racist rally, ya kazzer. Who among those racists are "very fine people?"

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

 

[Correll]

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

Yep. Though I disagree with those that oppose them, I do not think that they are all bad people.


And even if I did disagree, I would not lie about what Trump said, so that I could attack him based on that lie.

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

 

[dblack]

LOLOL

So a libertarian running as a Libertarian isn't a libertarian??

Yeah. It's gets rather convoluted.

 

[sealybobo]

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

Yep. Though I disagree with those that oppose them, I do not think that they are all bad people.


And even if I did disagree, I would not lie about what Trump said, so that I could attack him based on that lie.

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

 

[Correll]

Libertarian. That is singular.

And it's unclear how dblack is a libertarian, that's why I asked him.

And I answered. You're not listening. As far as you're concerned - I'm not a libertarian. Clear?

You said you don't call yourself a libertarian. I asked what your views are. Just asking for a summary. Saying you don't call yourself a libertarian anymore doesn't answer that, no

A libertarian is just a spin off of Republican. Small government, less taxes, less regulations, less socialism like they would do away with public schools and social security/medicare.

I could go on and on but bottom line is they are Republicans.

I'm not a Democrat I'm a Curfuffle. I'm pro choice, believe in global warming, like public schools and unions, etc....but I don't like Democrats border policies so now I'm a Curfuffle. Not a Democrat. LOL

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

You're kazzing again. When Trump said there were "very fine people" on that side, he was referring to the Unite the Right crowd.

I'm not interested in your claims you are a mind reader. You're a total moron. And the dispute was over the statues. You're claiming that you know Trump WAS NOT talking about the subject but something else.

You obviously do not know that, racist. But what the hell, I'll give you a chance to prove you read minds. I'm thinking of a number between one and a million. What is it?

LOL

Who among the Unite the Right is a very fine person?

Doesn't matter.

 

[Lastamender]

I think you might be underestimating the number of libertarians who are motivated by opposition to cultural or social norms.

Quite a lot of drug legalization types. Ann Coulter ran into some of that, when there was some discussion of having her run on a Libertarian ticket.

Yea that's a great example of how libertarians are just like Republicans only they are for legalizing pot. sorry that's not enough to make me like their mostly Republican/conservative policies.

Ann Coulter is a horrible person. Ever see her get roasted on Comedy Central? Funny shit. They tore her apart.

IF the Libertarians were just like republicans like you claim, they would have been happy with Ann. The plan feel apart.


That roast? That was your people revealing themselves to be animals. Yes. They did tear her apart. Wow. What an accomplishment. A bunch of people get together and insult the shit out of a woman who is massively outnumbered.


And you consider that something to be proud of?

Yes I am proud because everything horrible they said about her was true. She has balls to show up I'll give her that.

Literally, I think she has balls. Have you seen her adams apple?

Your hate has made you ...disgusting and irrational.

Trump is famous for revenge.. That's what he's doing now.. If he loses he destroys people, political parties etc.

Sorry, in a world where you people sold the "very fine people" lie, I have no reason to believe anything any of you say about Trump.

Trump said there are fine people on both sides. Are you an American?

Trump is a sell out..

Defendant, who prosecutors say stormed Capitol in a QAnon shirt, says he 'fell victim' to conspiracies and was fed 'a pack of lies' by Trump

Yes, there are very fine people who support and oppose Civil War statues. That was pretty reasonable

Yep. Though I disagree with those that oppose them, I do not think that they are all bad people.


And even if I did disagree, I would not lie about what Trump said, so that I could attack him based on that lie.

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I AM a Southerner you nitwit.

That's nice. I hope you enjoy the weather.


Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

Just like Germans shouldn't praise the Nazi's southerners shouldn't celebrate their traitor ancestors even if they were Democrats.

Don't forget the south lost. We should celebrate how we kicked their asses and we should rub it in their faces with statues of Grant and Lincoln in their cities. Would they object? Why?

You assholes want to tear down those statues too.

 

[Correll]

I object to anyone who removes Confederate Statues with violence like BLM and Antifa and their supporters. But I have no problem with people who do it the right way.

I get why reasonable people would be offended by the statues. The generals they honor were fighting on the side of slavery. Obviously private property is another thing. But I don't think government should display things that reasonably offend a large share of it's citizens.

The Statues were also all done specifically in support of Jim Crow and in your face racism.

The dirty secret is they were put up by Democrats and honor Democrats, just like Jim Crow, the KKK, lynching, cross burning and segregation. Democrats are racists

So it's funny today Republicans are the ones defending and arguing for those Democrats from yesterday

The democrats from yesterday are all dead. This is about their descendants and whether they have the right to celebrate their heritage.

During the 1960s a lot of DIXIECRATS became Republicans.

Does that mean that you think that Southerns today do or do NOT have the right to celebrate their heritage?

I have to tell you having lived in the south for several decades that statues are not really a big thing down here. Democrats violence is, but I really have barely ever heard much about the statues. It could be different in more specific areas

That's fine. I'm not surprised. I lived in the should for a short time, and I never heard anyone down there discuss it either.

 

[Correll]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.


AND, as per the op, also intimidated.


Thus, not a legitimate election.

Both side do it. SOP. Or did you truly believe that crap about Joe Biden in the Ukraine the Ghoul was pushing?

Whataboutism, contains an admission of the charge.

I would be happy to discuss the details of that, in another thread. But in this thread the all other lefties are pretending that this did not occur.

Having a discussion about whether our democracy is undermined by your sides massive lies, or by both sides while the vast majority of the posters having their hands over their ears and are screaming, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU AND YOU CAN'T MAKE ME",


does not seem feasible to me.

I understand you don't like it when the other side effectively uses the same tactic your side uses

Even if that were the case, the phrasing would be more along the lines of,


"uses the same tactics far, far more effectively".


The concept of the idea that Trump, OR the gop are effectively ws, in a nation that is rapidly moving to minority majority, is, or will be permanently marginalizing one of the two major parties.

ANd as that is based on MISINFORMATION, or a LIE, that is FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


Your counter accusation that the gop was trying to do the same thing, would be relevant if the discussion ever moves on to how to address the issue.


Currently, the majority of your fellow libs, are doubling down on the idea that Trump is a ws and that what they were doing with the "very fine people" lie, is just telling the truth.


The election was illegitimate and until we fix this issue, all future elections will be too.

 

[Correll]

Your post does not contradict my point.



You lied about what he said. You lied about what he meant.

LOLOL

I quoted him, kazzer.

No shit, angry little boy. But you said what he was talking about, which wasn't the purpose of the march and wasn't part of his quote. You lied about what he was referring to.

My God you're stupid. No wonder you're constantly just maxing out at playground insults and posting like an eight year old

LOLOL

It was a racist rally, ya kazzer. Who among those racists are "very fine people?"

You see everything as racist, it's because you are one

LOL

I note you don't want to answer that question... who among the Unite the Right is a very fine person?

Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

I directly answered that question. You are a liar, Trump never said that.

Why do you hate black people? So?

LOLOL

You're kazzing again.

I didn't ask you what Trump said. I asked you who among the Unite the Right was a very fine person?

I'm asking you again... this makes 4 times I'm asking. Your reluctance to answer reveals you're full of shit.

Were these very fine people...?

View attachment 499166​

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

 

[Correll]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

It was no lie, ya piece of shit. There was a rally of various racist rightwing groups, including, but not limited to, neonazis, neoconfederate, kkk, white nationalists and other assorted white supremacists. He condemned some of them but said others among them were "very fine people."

He clearly and explicitly stated that he was not referring to ws, but to the NON-ws who were there.

You know that. It has been repeatedly explained to you. YOU ARE LYING RIGHT NOW.


My point stands. IF the American voter had not been lied to, on such an epic scale, the vote would have been very different.

Different enough that the lie is effectively Fraud by Deception.

It was a racist rally, ya dumbfuck. There were no "NON-ws" there. There were no "very fine people" among the racists.

Trump clearly was on the opinion there were non-ws there, in support of the statues.

You know that. You are choosing to pretend to not know that, to lie.


That is my point.


You people sold the lie that one of the candidates was a fucking WHITE SUPREMACIST.


That made the electorate, not INFORMED AND FREE, but MISINFORMED.


Thus, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.

And “your side” sold the lie that Hillary was a crook without any evidence. (There’s plenty of evidence that Donald Trump is a racist sympathizers or at least enabler)

HoistEd on your own petard.

Whataboutism contains the premise that the accusation is true.


You have admitted that the "very fine people" lie is a lie.


NOTHING that Trump or the GOP has done is as poisonous or divisive as telling the US voters that the President is a ws or ws enabler.


That is, as I pointed out, FRAUD BY DECEPTION.


The election is not legitimate.

 

[Faun]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.

AND, as per the op, also intimidated.

Thus, not a legitimate election.

Not in the slightest bit true. Trump is most definitely a white supremacist, and Charlottesville was the first time he dropped the mask after the election. ...
....

From the speech you people lied about then and are still lying now.

"And you had people -- and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally. But you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists."

That is what he actually said about ws.


If the American people were told what Trump really said, instead of what you people believe he meant, it could very likely have changed the outcome of the election.

Yes, you also had neo-confederates and kkk and other assorted racists. So that's who was "very fine people."

 

[Faun]

ou said that the "means by which the rabid right" got it's information was not effected.

I agreed with the point, though I dropped your partisan spin.

I went on to make a point that my original concern was more about the more moderate voters.


That was not a "backhanded insult". That was my conceding your point. There was no insult at all.

"might have learned to ignore the propaganda spouted by people like you"

Then you besmirch and sow mistrust of my fellow Americans and try to instill faithlessness in our democratic elections with:

"they are not an informed electorate, but a MISINFORMED electorate."

"And the election is thus not legitimate."

I completely disagree.

DO you believe that President Trump said that ws were "very fine people"?

I don't have to believe what he said, we have recordings.

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

Reporter: "George Washington and Robert E. Lee are not the same."

Trump: "George Washington was a slave owner........"

In Context: Trump’s ‘very fine people on both sides’ remarks

On Aug. 15, 2017, President Donald Trump held a press conference to discuss an executive order he had signed on infrastr

www.politifact.com

And thank you for proving my point that you people are the ones pushing propaganda and lies.


That you can stand by that lie, after it has been so repeatedly and completely debunked, shows that you are beyond saving.

That you people SUCCESSFULLY pushed that lie, and made it stick, is incredible.


That the American voters, as a group, were SUCCESSFULLY LIED TO THAT THE US PRESIDENT WAS SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SUPREMACISTS, MAKES THE ELECTORATE MISINFORMED AND THE ELECTION ILLEGETIMATE.

Crocodile tears. Both sides do it. Recall the "You didn't build that" campaign.

So, you admit it was a political lie. THank you.

Your lie though was massively successful. I can think of nothing more damaging in this day and age, as being smeared with the ws label.


And by that fact, you undermined the election.


FRAUD BY DECPETION.

Well that is was the Republican tactic, completely lie about the context of what was said, whereas the part of the Trumpyberra quote they emphasized was half true in that the Grumpster was trying to equivocate and satisfy both sides.

Romney gained ground back in 2012 after they used that attack ad campaign too. Furthermore the Trumpybear campaign embraced a very deceptive campaign against Sec. Clinton in 2016.

Sounds like you guys can dish it out alright, but when the tables are turned, you cry "Fraud"!

Irrelevant.

THe point stands. THe voters were misled on a massive scale.


AND, as per the op, also intimidated.


Thus, not a legitimate election.

LOL

In Ukraine in 2016, Prosecutor General Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma or Hunter Biden when then VP Joe Biden pushed Poroshenko's hand to fire Shokin for corruption. Trump, Giuliani, and many on the right lied repeatedly by framing that as though that investigation was active and that Biden bribed Poroshenko.

That's fraud by deception, right?

Sorry, irrelevant minutia compared to the Lie that Trump is a ws.


You people ridicule us for our inability to make inroads in the minority vote and then go around telling lies that we are ws.


And you wonder why we think you are all scum of the earth.

LOLOL

Glad to see you only care about one side getting gobsmacked while you approve of the other.