The Church In History....

PoliticalChic

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Oct 6, 2008
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It hasn't always been roses and rainbows.
As the Church is directed by men, not by angels, the same elements that the Founders understood as requiring checks and balances, suffered from the lack thereof.


1. I doubt that any need a remedial on the early history of the Church, the period that may the called its 'martyr period'.

But, when Constantine offered his sword to the Church....it used it.

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton


a. "It is with the twelfth century that we come to the greatest challenge confronting the historically naive Christian who may fondly suppose that his religion has been consistently faithful to the boundless philanthropy of its founder. For it is at this point in history ... that the Christian West, that is to say the Church itself, became what Professor Robert Moore has called a "persecuting society," the exact inversion of a martyr society. That society, often regarded in retrospect as Christianity in a state of religious and social perfection, now became a gross and habitual violator of human rights ."
Patrick Collinson, "Religion and Human Rights: The Case of and for Protestantism," in Historical Change and Human Rights: The Oxford Amnesty Lectures, p.34.


I'll bet that it would be hard to find Christians who are unaware of the persecution done to Jews, heretics, or the Crusades themselves. Collinson is largely spot on.


b. "If there is ignorance among the faithful, it pertains to dark episodes from other eras, like Charlemagne's merciless conversion of the Saxons in the eighth century, a campaign so brutal that the Nazis would resurrect its memory twelve centuries later in order to justify their anti-Christian policies."
"Christianity and Progress," by Carroll and Shiflett, p. 19-20.


" Charlemagne’s forces... routed the Saxons at the Battle of Suntel (or Sonnethal) Mountain, and thereupon
.... no fewer than 4500 of the others, ... were handed over and at the place on the river Aller called Verden, at the king’s command, all beheaded in a single day. Thus was punishment executed; and the king then retired to winter-quarters at Thionville, where he celebrated both the Lord’s birthday and Easter in the customary fashion.

This merciless slaughter of prisoners is one of the lasting blights on Charlemagne’s impressive reputation."
ExecutedToday.com 782 4 500 Saxons by order of Charlemagne



"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car."
 
If one believes that Peter and Paul were once authorized to act on behalf of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, and then apostasy fell on the Church, one has to explain that if authority was lost how it has been re-established.
 
Through the ministry of angels by those who originally held the authority
 
Love it. A militant atheist foolishly going after subjects the which he can't grasp. That makes him a buddy of PC.
 
Love it. A militant atheist foolishly going after subjects the which he can't grasp. That makes him a buddy of PC.

I can grasp the subject very well.

All the things we don't understand can be eventually explained by science.
Therefore, there is no God.

And before you give me some tired argument about faith, just take any argument for "God" and insert the words 'Santa Claus" and you realize how ludicrous it becomes.
 
2. Perhaps it is time now to add a bit of balance to the narrative, as that same Church built structures on which constitutional government is based, and enforced a view that power must have clearly defined limits.


a. " [Many] would perhaps be surprised to discover in this era the growth of enforceable property rights and taxation by consent. They are unlikely to have learned that the diffusion of the Bible's skeptical view of secular power — I Samuel 8 was an especially popular citation — helped to check the ambitions of would-be tyrants. They are probably unaware that the same popes who, to their ever lasting shame, introduced the Inquisition also helped throttle feudal lawlessness and humbled more than one monarch angling for absolute power."
Carroll and Shilett, Op. Cit.



3. Warnings about what 'kings' can do are found in I Samuel 8, in it the Lord says to Samuel to warn the people about what a king will do...
."And the Lords aid to Samuel, “Obey the voice of the people in all that they say to you,for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them.8 According to all the deeds that they have done, from the day I brought them up out of Egypt even to this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are also doing to you.9 Now then, obey their voice; only you shall solemnly warn them and show them the ways of the king who shall reign over them.”

Of course....folks didn't listen to the warnings.



It was repeated here: Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiature (The people wish to be deceived, so let them be deceived- anonymous, ancient Roman)



Seems to resonate today.

"Republicans Blast 'Emperor' Obama's Immigration Order" GOP Blasts Emperor Obama s Immigration Order - Business Insider
 
a campaign so brutal that the Nazis would resurrect its memory twelve centuries later in order to justify their anti-Christian policies."

Good to see PC is back to attacking her own side of the political spectrum.

What next - linking the Tea Party with the Holocaust?


You are mistaken (bet you hear that a lot.)

You have read only one fifth of my portion of the thread.
I hope you are able to read the entire thread.....no one is more sorely in need of education than you are.
 
a campaign so brutal that the Nazis would resurrect its memory twelve centuries later in order to justify their anti-Christian policies."

Good to see PC is back to attacking her own side of the political spectrum.

What next - linking the Tea Party with the Holocaust?


You are mistaken (bet you hear that a lot.)

You have read only one fifth of my portion of the thread.
I hope you are able to read the entire thread.....no one is more sorely in need of education than you are.

If I read one fifth of this thread, that must be 30% more than anyone else has ever read, isn't it?

Once again - Hitler was EXTREMELY RIGHT WING. You are EXTREMELY RIGHT WING.

We see a lot of childish shit on this board, but posters so dim they flail away at their own political beliefs may be a new low.
 
P.Chic -

Far-right politics
or extreme-right politics are right-wing politics to the right of the mainstream centre right on the traditional left-right spectrum. They often involve a focus on tradition as opposed to policies and customs that are regarded as reflective of modernism. They tend to include disregard or disdain for egalitarianism, if not overt support for social inequality and social hierarchy, elements of social conservatism and opposition to most forms of liberalism and socialism. The terms are commonly used to describe fascism, neo-fascism and other ideologies or organizations that feature extreme nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, or reactionary views.[1] Some far-right movements, such as the Nazis, have pursued oppression and genocide against groups of people on the basis of their alleged inferiority or their alleged threat to the nation or state.[2]

Far-right politics - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Try and muster an adult response. Really. This is not the first time that I have explained this to you, is it?
 
a campaign so brutal that the Nazis would resurrect its memory twelve centuries later in order to justify their anti-Christian policies."

Good to see PC is back to attacking her own side of the political spectrum.

What next - linking the Tea Party with the Holocaust?


You are mistaken (bet you hear that a lot.)

You have read only one fifth of my portion of the thread.
I hope you are able to read the entire thread.....no one is more sorely in need of education than you are.

If I read one fifth of this thread, that must be 30% more than anyone else has ever read, isn't it?

Once again - Hitler was EXTREMELY RIGHT WING. You are EXTREMELY RIGHT WING.

We see a lot of childish shit on this board, but posters so dim they flail away at their own political beliefs may be a new low.




Hitler, like Stalin, was left wing.

Nazi...national socialism....based on nationalism and/or race... Communism....international socialism.

Why are you so afraid of the truth?
Oh.....right...because it puts you in bed with Hitler.

Yet you jump right in with the worse killer, Stalin.

Reveals your abject stupidity, huh?
 
P.Chic -

Far-right politics
or extreme-right politics are right-wing politics to the right of the mainstream centre right on the traditional left-right spectrum. They often involve a focus on tradition as opposed to policies and customs that are regarded as reflective of modernism. They tend to include disregard or disdain for egalitarianism, if not overt support for social inequality and social hierarchy, elements of social conservatism and opposition to most forms of liberalism and socialism. The terms are commonly used to describe fascism, neo-fascism and other ideologies or organizations that feature extreme nationalist, chauvinist, xenophobic, racist, or reactionary views.[1] Some far-right movements, such as the Nazis, have pursued oppression and genocide against groups of people on the basis of their alleged inferiority or their alleged threat to the nation or state.[2]

Far-right politics - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Try and muster an adult response. Really. This is not the first time that I have explained this to you, is it?


Nazism, communism, socialism...and fascism....

1. Which stem from the works of Karl Marx?
2. Which is a form of command and control big government?
3. Which uses genocide as an accepted procedure on its political enemies?
4. Which is based on the collective over the individual?
5. Which oppresses and slaughters its own citizens as pro forma....?

6. Which represents totalitarian governance?



And, of course, they all are do.

And all, along with Liberalism and Progressivism, are iterations of the Left.
 
P. Chic -

I have answered all of your questions before, actually.

You didn't understand the answers then and you won't understand them now.

The thing is, you know, I have actually tried quite patiently to explain this to you twice now, but once again I have to accept that you simply are not bright enough to understand even a basic dictionary definition.
 
4. While there are truly episodes of slaughter in Church history, e.g., Chalemagne's slaughter of Saxons in an attempt to convert them to Christianity, there are also efforts to bring peace to the continent....


a. " ... the Code of Chivalry as it stood by the Late Middle Ages was a moral system which combined a warrior ethos,Christian virtue and courtly manners, all conspiring to establish a notion of honour and nobility. ...Christianity had a modifying influence on the classical concept of heroism and virtue, nowadays identified with the virtues of chivalry.[9] The Peace and Truce of God in the 10th century was one such example, with limits placed on knights to protect and honour the weaker members of society and also help the church maintain peace.


b. Chivalry can be classified into three basic but overlapping areas:

1. Duties to countrymen and fellow Christians: this contains virtues such as mercy, courage, valour, fairness, protection of the weak and the poor, and in the servant-hood of the knight to his lord. This also brings with it the idea of being willing to give one’s life for another’s; whether he would be giving his life for a poor man or his lord.

2. Duties to God: this would contain being faithful to God, protecting the innocent, being faithful to the church, being the champion of good against evil, being generous and obeying God above the feudal lord.

3. Duties to women: this is probably the most familiar aspect of chivalry. This would contain what is often called courtly love, the idea that the knight is to serve a lady, and after her all other ladies. Most especially in this category is a general gentleness and graciousness to all women."
Chivalry - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
 
PC and Hitler, per fascism are far right wing progressives that would use undemocratic procedures to force their wills on everyone else.

JoeB and PC both misunderstand science and God, and their continual revolving arguments are
laughing-019.gif
.
 

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