The Confederate Flag

[Boss]

Actually it is more FAIL on your part

I was discussing how the Confederate Battle Flag was used as a means of intimidating blacks during the Civil Right era and that nobody who is complaining about the "Heritage" of the flag complained

You chimed in that Sons and daughters of the Confederacy had. When I asked for proof, you repeatedly changed the subject

No, it's a massive fail on your part. It demonstrates the desperate extreme you will go to in order to support your bigotry. It's the same as asking why civil rights advocates didn't stand up against the violent acts of the Black Panthers (some did), or why peaceful Muslims don't stand up against radical Islam (some do), or why Gay Rights advocates don't speak out against NAMBLA (they have).

I have spoken out several times in this thread against the perversion of the symbol by racist hate groups. I know of many people who share my view. Lawsuits have been filed by several heritage groups against the KKK for inappropriate representation of the flag, and the courts ruled they have that right of free speech. Do you need specific information regarding those cases, or are you simply going to find a way to refute them and continue supporting your bigotry? My guess is, the later because that's what bigots do.

 

[Boss]

Then why are Conservatives trying to rewrite history as it pertains to slavery?

Slavery continued to exist because for 40 years before the Civil War southern politicians tied up our legislature to ensure not only that slavery would continue but that it would be expanded to new territories
The Supreme Court was much like todays conservative court. More concerned with protecting conservative institutions than doing the right thing

The Confederate Flag is a symbol....a symbol of hatred and injustice

No one is trying to rewrite history here but you. Are you a conservative? Slavery existed for hundreds of years before the Civil War. It existed in Colonial times before the nation was created. It was debated at the founding of the nation but left to stand. Adams defined it as a "necessary evil." For the 85 years between the Declaration of Independence and the Civil War, it was upheld by the Supreme Court, it was upheld by Congress, it was upheld by every president including Lincoln. You want to write yourself a pass and blame that on Southerners strongarming the government into accepting something you claim was opposed, but that makes no logical sense.

The Confederate flag was not a symbol of hatred or injustice. The injustice came from a government attempting to violate it's own court rulings and defy it's own constitution. Hate is spawned from bigoted prejudice, like what you are displaying here. You've found a way to absolve yourself and your ancestors for their racist past by scapegoating Southerners. Idiots like Asclepias have bought into your rhetoric because of the victim mentality.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually it is more FAIL on your part

I was discussing how the Confederate Battle Flag was used as a means of intimidating blacks during the Civil Right era and that nobody who is complaining about the "Heritage" of the flag complained

You chimed in that Sons and daughters of the Confederacy had. When I asked for proof, you repeatedly changed the subject

No, it's a massive fail on your part. It demonstrates the desperate extreme you will go to in order to support your bigotry. It's the same as asking why civil rights advocates didn't stand up against the violent acts of the Black Panthers (some did), or why peaceful Muslims don't stand up against radical Islam (some do), or why Gay Rights advocates don't speak out against NAMBLA (they have).

I have spoken out several times in this thread against the perversion of the symbol by racist hate groups. I know of many people who share my view. Lawsuits have been filed by several heritage groups against the KKK for inappropriate representation of the flag, and the courts ruled they have that right of free speech. Do you need specific information regarding those cases, or are you simply going to find a way to refute them and continue supporting your bigotry? My guess is, the later because that's what bigots do.

I asked for cases where they sued during the Civil Rights period....not today

My position is that those groups supported the segregationists and encouraged the use of the battle flag. They are only suing today because it is impacting their ability to fly the flag

Too little too late

 

[OnePercenter]

When my wife and I were in L.A. (near the airport) we saw this Black guy with a Confederate Flag tattoo'd on his shoulder. I sh*t you not!

Should have taken a pic.

Occasionally here in Central Pennsylvania I'll encounter what I refer to as "Black Rednecks". They drive Bubba Trucks with NASCAR stickers on them and wear John Deer hats.

Needing to 'get a life' crosses all races.

 

[Boss]

Actually it is more FAIL on your part

I was discussing how the Confederate Battle Flag was used as a means of intimidating blacks during the Civil Right era and that nobody who is complaining about the "Heritage" of the flag complained

You chimed in that Sons and daughters of the Confederacy had. When I asked for proof, you repeatedly changed the subject

No, it's a massive fail on your part. It demonstrates the desperate extreme you will go to in order to support your bigotry. It's the same as asking why civil rights advocates didn't stand up against the violent acts of the Black Panthers (some did), or why peaceful Muslims don't stand up against radical Islam (some do), or why Gay Rights advocates don't speak out against NAMBLA (they have).

I have spoken out several times in this thread against the perversion of the symbol by racist hate groups. I know of many people who share my view. Lawsuits have been filed by several heritage groups against the KKK for inappropriate representation of the flag, and the courts ruled they have that right of free speech. Do you need specific information regarding those cases, or are you simply going to find a way to refute them and continue supporting your bigotry? My guess is, the later because that's what bigots do.

I asked for cases where they sued during the Civil Rights period....not today

My position is that those groups supported the segregationists and encouraged the use of the battle flag. They are only suing today because it is impacting their ability to fly the flag

Too little too late

Well now you are drawing parameters around your request to ensure your point can't be challenged. This is another common tactic of bigots.

The official flag of the KKK, to this day, is the American flag. Have you led the charge to file a lawsuit to protect the American flag from misrepresentation? So I guess we can assume the American flag stands as a symbol of racism because you are silent?

Again... let's be perfectly clear on what the law says regarding the use of a flag by any group or organization.... they are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There is nothing that can be done from a legal perspective by the SCV or UDC to prohibit the use of the Confederate flag by any group for any purpose. These organizations have strongly condemned such usage and continue to do so. If you want to go check out some KKK forums, you will find they literally hate the SCV and UDC almost as much as they hate black people.

 

[rightwinger]

No, it's a massive fail on your part. It demonstrates the desperate extreme you will go to in order to support your bigotry. It's the same as asking why civil rights advocates didn't stand up against the violent acts of the Black Panthers (some did), or why peaceful Muslims don't stand up against radical Islam (some do), or why Gay Rights advocates don't speak out against NAMBLA (they have).

I have spoken out several times in this thread against the perversion of the symbol by racist hate groups. I know of many people who share my view. Lawsuits have been filed by several heritage groups against the KKK for inappropriate representation of the flag, and the courts ruled they have that right of free speech. Do you need specific information regarding those cases, or are you simply going to find a way to refute them and continue supporting your bigotry? My guess is, the later because that's what bigots do.

I asked for cases where they sued during the Civil Rights period....not today

My position is that those groups supported the segregationists and encouraged the use of the battle flag. They are only suing today because it is impacting their ability to fly the flag

Too little too late

Well now you are drawing parameters around your request to ensure your point can't be challenged. This is another common tactic of bigots.

The official flag of the KKK, to this day, is the American flag. Have you led the charge to file a lawsuit to protect the American flag from misrepresentation? So I guess we can assume the American flag stands as a symbol of racism because you are silent?

Again... let's be perfectly clear on what the law says regarding the use of a flag by any group or organization.... they are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There is nothing that can be done from a legal perspective by the SCV or UDC to prohibit the use of the Confederate flag by any group for any purpose. These organizations have strongly condemned such usage and continue to do so. If you want to go check out some KKK forums, you will find they literally hate the SCV and UDC almost as much as they hate black people.

I have seen that picture many times. It is from the 1920s. The klan of the 50s and 60s switched to the confederate flag. So did any racist who wanted to make it clear where he stood on segregation and civil rights

They turned it into a flag of hate

 

[Asclepias]

No, it's a massive fail on your part. It demonstrates the desperate extreme you will go to in order to support your bigotry. It's the same as asking why civil rights advocates didn't stand up against the violent acts of the Black Panthers (some did), or why peaceful Muslims don't stand up against radical Islam (some do), or why Gay Rights advocates don't speak out against NAMBLA (they have).

I have spoken out several times in this thread against the perversion of the symbol by racist hate groups. I know of many people who share my view. Lawsuits have been filed by several heritage groups against the KKK for inappropriate representation of the flag, and the courts ruled they have that right of free speech. Do you need specific information regarding those cases, or are you simply going to find a way to refute them and continue supporting your bigotry? My guess is, the later because that's what bigots do.

I asked for cases where they sued during the Civil Rights period....not today

My position is that those groups supported the segregationists and encouraged the use of the battle flag. They are only suing today because it is impacting their ability to fly the flag

Too little too late

Well now you are drawing parameters around your request to ensure your point can't be challenged. This is another common tactic of bigots.

The official flag of the KKK, to this day, is the American flag. Have you led the charge to file a lawsuit to protect the American flag from misrepresentation? So I guess we can assume the American flag stands as a symbol of racism because you are silent?

Again... let's be perfectly clear on what the law says regarding the use of a flag by any group or organization.... they are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There is nothing that can be done from a legal perspective by the SCV or UDC to prohibit the use of the Confederate flag by any group for any purpose. These organizations have strongly condemned such usage and continue to do so. If you want to go check out some KKK forums, you will find they literally hate the SCV and UDC almost as much as they hate black people.

Sorry dude. You are convincing no one at all. Tell your KKK buddies to stop using it.

 

[Ronin]

The fact that our founding fathers weren't compelled to end slavery at the onset of this nation and it's constitution is probably first and foremost to me,

Not all of them. Many were against it. However they knew they needed the other side (at least initially) to have any potential success fighting the British.

The author's of the Declaration and Constitution knew the verbiage and framework for amendments would eventually end slavery. However, they probably never thought it would create a civil war.

 

[ogibillm]

The fact that our founding fathers weren't compelled to end slavery at the onset of this nation and it's constitution is probably first and foremost to me,

Not all of them. Many were against it. However they knew they needed the other side (at least initially) to have any potential success fighting the British.

The author's of the Declaration and Constitution knew the verbiage and framework for amendments would eventually end slavery. However, they probably never thought it would create a civil war.

are you seriously contending that all the signers of the declaration of independence and all the ratifiers of the constitution were actually abolitionists?

 

[Geaux4it]

I asked for cases where they sued during the Civil Rights period....not today

My position is that those groups supported the segregationists and encouraged the use of the battle flag. They are only suing today because it is impacting their ability to fly the flag

Too little too late

Well now you are drawing parameters around your request to ensure your point can't be challenged. This is another common tactic of bigots.

The official flag of the KKK, to this day, is the American flag. Have you led the charge to file a lawsuit to protect the American flag from misrepresentation? So I guess we can assume the American flag stands as a symbol of racism because you are silent?

Again... let's be perfectly clear on what the law says regarding the use of a flag by any group or organization.... they are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There is nothing that can be done from a legal perspective by the SCV or UDC to prohibit the use of the Confederate flag by any group for any purpose. These organizations have strongly condemned such usage and continue to do so. If you want to go check out some KKK forums, you will find they literally hate the SCV and UDC almost as much as they hate black people.

Sorry dude. You are convincing no one at all. Tell your KKK buddies to stop using it.

 

[rightwinger]

Well now you are drawing parameters around your request to ensure your point can't be challenged. This is another common tactic of bigots.

The official flag of the KKK, to this day, is the American flag. Have you led the charge to file a lawsuit to protect the American flag from misrepresentation? So I guess we can assume the American flag stands as a symbol of racism because you are silent?

Again... let's be perfectly clear on what the law says regarding the use of a flag by any group or organization.... they are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There is nothing that can be done from a legal perspective by the SCV or UDC to prohibit the use of the Confederate flag by any group for any purpose. These organizations have strongly condemned such usage and continue to do so. If you want to go check out some KKK forums, you will find they literally hate the SCV and UDC almost as much as they hate black people.

Sorry dude. You are convincing no one at all. Tell your KKK buddies to stop using it.

Look scary black men upholding their second amendment rights

 

[Jackson]

There was nothing inherently offensive about the swastika either. It was used for centuries before being usurped by the Nazis
There is nothing inherently offensive about the name Adolph. But you don't see it used much anymore

The Confederate Battle flag was a symbol of the Southern Rebellion until it was usurped by the KKK as a symbol of black oppression. To many blacks that flag symbolizes the men who came in the night and burned and lynched. During the Civil Rights movement, that flag was waived as a reminder of the protesters slave roots

It may have been a perfectly acceptable symbol at one time....but it no longer is

I live in Tn but I came from Ohio. I bought a t-shirt that was a large confederate flag to honor the history of the south. Never thought of slavery at the time of the purchase. I don't see it as offending anyone in the South.

 

[Boss]

I asked for cases where they sued during the Civil Rights period....not today

My position is that those groups supported the segregationists and encouraged the use of the battle flag. They are only suing today because it is impacting their ability to fly the flag

Too little too late

Well now you are drawing parameters around your request to ensure your point can't be challenged. This is another common tactic of bigots.

The official flag of the KKK, to this day, is the American flag. Have you led the charge to file a lawsuit to protect the American flag from misrepresentation? So I guess we can assume the American flag stands as a symbol of racism because you are silent?

Again... let's be perfectly clear on what the law says regarding the use of a flag by any group or organization.... they are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There is nothing that can be done from a legal perspective by the SCV or UDC to prohibit the use of the Confederate flag by any group for any purpose. These organizations have strongly condemned such usage and continue to do so. If you want to go check out some KKK forums, you will find they literally hate the SCV and UDC almost as much as they hate black people.

I have seen that picture many times. It is from the 1920s. The klan of the 50s and 60s switched to the confederate flag. So did any racist who wanted to make it clear where he stood on segregation and civil rights

They turned it into a flag of hate

Nope. Sorry. The klan does fly the Confederate flag, but they still regard the American flag as their 'official' flag. That has never been changed.

2013

1996

1977

1965

1949

As you can see, there is no time in the Klan's history where they didn't predominantly fly the American flag. So by your criteria, we can denounce the American flag as a symbol of race hate because the Klan has always considered it their 'official' flag, correct?

They turned it into a flag of hate.

The same applies to the American flag then. So long Old Glory! We can no longer honor you because the Klan has turned you into a symbol of something different than you were intended, and we are weak-minded morons who have to apply stereotypes and prejudice to entire groups of people on the basis of the actions of a few extremists.

 

[Boss]

The fact that our founding fathers weren't compelled to end slavery at the onset of this nation and it's constitution is probably first and foremost to me,

Not all of them. Many were against it. However they knew they needed the other side (at least initially) to have any potential success fighting the British.

The author's of the Declaration and Constitution knew the verbiage and framework for amendments would eventually end slavery. However, they probably never thought it would create a civil war.

I didn't say all of them were in favor of slavery, I said they weren't compelled to end it. This point often gets lost in the minutiae but MANY slave owners were morally opposed to slavery. That may seem a bit odd, but it's no different than Al Gore being opposed to carbon pollution, yet jetting all around the globe in a G5. Thomas Jefferson was one of the Founding Fathers who raised the issue of slavery, and it was heavily debated at the time, and he owned hundreds of slaves. It's how crops were harvested on a large scale. There was no other option at the time, the technology didn't yet exist. If you wanted to grow and produce large amounts of cotton, sugar cane or tobacco, you needed slaves. That's how it was done. It was not a matter of "we just want to keep these black people down" as much as it was the only means of production at the time.

The South's protest of ending slavery was not about Civil Rights or wanting to keep blacks enslaved, but a property rights issue as had been determined by US courts and the Constitution. They had a legitimate investment, and a substantial one at that. No one was offering to compensate them in any way. It became a political strategy to start adding "free" states, not allowing states to determine for themselves, which brought the issue to a head.

 

[rightwinger]

Well now you are drawing parameters around your request to ensure your point can't be challenged. This is another common tactic of bigots.

The official flag of the KKK, to this day, is the American flag. Have you led the charge to file a lawsuit to protect the American flag from misrepresentation? So I guess we can assume the American flag stands as a symbol of racism because you are silent?

Again... let's be perfectly clear on what the law says regarding the use of a flag by any group or organization.... they are protected by the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. There is nothing that can be done from a legal perspective by the SCV or UDC to prohibit the use of the Confederate flag by any group for any purpose. These organizations have strongly condemned such usage and continue to do so. If you want to go check out some KKK forums, you will find they literally hate the SCV and UDC almost as much as they hate black people.

I have seen that picture many times. It is from the 1920s. The klan of the 50s and 60s switched to the confederate flag. So did any racist who wanted to make it clear where he stood on segregation and civil rights

They turned it into a flag of hate

Nope. Sorry. The klan does fly the Confederate flag, but they still regard the American flag as their 'official' flag. That has never been changed.

2013

1996

1977

1965

1949

As you can see, there is no time in the Klan's history where they didn't predominantly fly the American flag. So by your criteria, we can denounce the American flag as a symbol of race hate because the Klan has always considered it their 'official' flag, correct?

They turned it into a flag of hate.

The same applies to the American flag then. So long Old Glory! We can no longer honor you because the Klan has turned you into a symbol of something different than you were intended, and we are weak-minded morons who have to apply stereotypes and prejudice to entire groups of people on the basis of the actions of a few extremists.

The klan is into symbols

Hoods, burning crosses, secret ceremonies.

They use the American Flag to symbolize that they consider themselves to be patriots and "real Americans"
They use the confederate flag to symbolize their opposition to equality of the races. Just like the South did in the civil war

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have seen that picture many times. It is from the 1920s. The klan of the 50s and 60s switched to the confederate flag. So did any racist who wanted to make it clear where he stood on segregation and civil rights

They turned it into a flag of hate

Nope. Sorry. The klan does fly the Confederate flag, but they still regard the American flag as their 'official' flag. That has never been changed.

2013

1996

1977

1965

1949

As you can see, there is no time in the Klan's history where they didn't predominantly fly the American flag. So by your criteria, we can denounce the American flag as a symbol of race hate because the Klan has always considered it their 'official' flag, correct?

They turned it into a flag of hate.

The same applies to the American flag then. So long Old Glory! We can no longer honor you because the Klan has turned you into a symbol of something different than you were intended, and we are weak-minded morons who have to apply stereotypes and prejudice to entire groups of people on the basis of the actions of a few extremists.

The klan is into symbols

Hoods, burning crosses, secret ceremonies.

They use the American Flag to symbolize that they consider themselves to be patriots and "real Americans"
They use the confederate flag to symbolize their opposition to equality of the races. Just like the South did in the civil war

 

[rightwinger]

Nope. Sorry. The klan does fly the Confederate flag, but they still regard the American flag as their 'official' flag. That has never been changed.

[
[1949

As you can see, there is no time in the Klan's history where they didn't predominantly fly the American flag. So by your criteria, we can denounce the American flag as a symbol of race hate because the Klan has always considered it their 'official' flag, correct?

They turned it into a flag of hate.

The same applies to the American flag then. So long Old Glory! We can no longer honor you because the Klan has turned you into a symbol of something different than you were intended, and we are weak-minded morons who have to apply stereotypes and prejudice to entire groups of people on the basis of the actions of a few extremists.

The klan is into symbols

Hoods, burning crosses, secret ceremonies.

They use the American Flag to symbolize that they consider themselves to be patriots and "real Americans"
They use the confederate flag to symbolize their opposition to equality of the races. Just like the South did in the civil war

Wow....a couple of blacks with the confederate flag

I guess that proves without a doubt that the flag is not a racist symbol

 

[rightwinger]

Civil Rights counter protester showing where he stands

 

[rightwinger]

Waving the confederate flag in response to civil rights protests

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The klan is into symbols

Hoods, burning crosses, secret ceremonies.

They use the American Flag to symbolize that they consider themselves to be patriots and "real Americans"
They use the confederate flag to symbolize their opposition to equality of the races. Just like the South did in the civil war

Wow....a couple of blacks with the confederate flag

I guess that proves without a doubt that the flag is not a racist symbol

Come down south and you will find it's more than just a couple. But, stay ignorant if you want.