The Cosmos

[AVG-JOE]

Anyone who believes in God needs to watch the Cosmos. Watch the new one with Neil Degrasse Tyson and the old one with Carl Sagan. Once you learn the history of man, science and religion you will realize god(s) were made up long before we decided to just go with one god. Religious ignorance has held us back thousands of years. Religious people love to brag that it was on their watch that we came up with cures and that it was religious people who got us on the moon. They expose their ignorance to the fact that many of the scientists were/are atheists. They try to ignore the history of how many scientists were put to death for heresy by the churches for things that turned out to be correct. But today the church doesn't get so upset if you suggest the earth isn't the center of the universe or that the sun revolves around the earth because churches change with the times. They've learned not to fight science and instead ignore your anti scientific history and embrace science. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

300 years before Christ, Aristarchus of Samos discovered the earth was not the center of the universe. But it wasn't until the year 1500 of our lord that someone dared suggest it again. Who squashed this fact for 1800 years? Religion.

Think about instead of the 50 year cold war and all the other wars we fought if we would have put the time and energy into colonizing Mars. Take all the nukes we have built since the 1950's and tell me how much money that is. Human beings are stupid. One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.

One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.
is that one way?....just play along here Bobo.....what if Steven Hawking said he believes in a higher "being" "power" or a higher something....would you still think he is a dumbass?...some rather intelligent people are able to keep their Beliefs separate from what they can observe....if a "God" does indeed exist, he used science to create all this...what opportunist did afterwards to get power is another matter....and those kinds of people have always been around....

The first question in religious discussion remains: "Which God?"


The Cosmos could just as easily be evidence of a god as not.... but if God is, especially in light of this new evidence concerning our place in the universe and our point on The Timeline, doesn't it make sense that God's way bigger than the ancient stories of Monkeys from Earth?

First generation to let go of the past and put their faith instead in The Future and Monkey Spawn gets to watch their grandchildren explore the stars.

 

[MaxGrit]

You are the insane idiot atheist.

God existence is obvious and easily seen by his creatures, so that all shall have no excuse for not believing in Him during the Day of Judgment.

If god(s) existence were obvious the greatest minds in the world wouldn't question it.

Why not more than one god? That's what we thought for hundreds of thousands of years before we finally settled on the 1 god concept. What evidence did we use to decide there is only 1 god?

If you were born back in ancient Greece you'd believe in multiple gods. Would you be right? Multiple gods seemed obvious to them. You could look up in the sky and see millions of gods (stars). Little did they know those were just other suns and they are so far away we just can't see that life is all over the universe. So instead superstitious/ignorant/primitive man decided we were all there was. Special. And the sun and cosmos revolved around us. We were wrong again.

Doesn't seem to matter how much we are wrong about god. Still doesn't prove god doesn't exist, right? But tell us this. Why is he hiding? And please don't use any of the stuff you read in the bible. If you do, also show me what every other 999 former and prior religions say. Doesn't matter what they say because they didn't use science to figure it out. If they did, show me the science.

God existence is obvious to the very best minds ever born, minds that constantly seek for absolute truth.

You're blind.

They can't be the best minds if they believe in god.

1. Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me. Think for yourself.
   
   
2. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so.
   
   
3. Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it.
   
   
4. Follow the evidence, wherever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.
   
   
5. And perhaps even the most important rule of all: remember you could be wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about somethings. Newton, Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made mistakes. Of course they did, their were human. Science is a way keep from fooling ourselves and each other.

I'll remain open to the possibility that a god or gods exist and created us. I haven't seen enough evidence to believe. I have seen enough evidence however to be very skeptical, especially of anyone who belongs to an organized religion. It is obvious to me Jesus, Moses, Mohammad, Abraham, Noah, Adam & Eve and Joseph Smith of the Mormons don't pass the test.

LoL you are blind.

How? Explain it to me? But remember if you quote the bible or koran I'm going to use this

(1) Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so.

(2) Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so.

(3) Test ideas by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well-designed test, it's wrong. Get over it.

(4) Follow the evidence wherever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.

And perhaps the most important rule of all...

(5) Remember: you could be wrong. Even the best scientists have been wrong about some things. Newton, Einstein, and every other great scientist in history -- they all made mistakes. Of course they did. They were human.

Science is a way to keep from fooling ourselves, and each other.

Live with what you think. You should be able to, in time, find the truth that God exists, if you are sincere.

You can also know after you die. You will find out if what I tell you is true.

 

[Dajjal]

Who knows how many of these theories are fact or just theory. Doesn't matter. I like how they came up with them. Through the scientific approach. Not because some ancient book or old outdated controlling corrupt Church said so. All of these theories are open for debate.

Well I for one do not dispute the evidence of evolution, but Darwin himself said, in the footnotes of 'the origin of the species' That he did not see why God could not have started the whole process off. But unlike some here I do not get my information about God from the bible, I get it from modern day revelations I have been privy to in my study of spiritualism and the occult. For further information see my thread 'spiritual teachings' In which I have compiled many links to extensive online library's of 100s of spiritual books.

 

[Dajjal]

Mods. sorry about the quote error above. I could not edit It, and now it is too late to delete it.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Fixed.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, since science has already established that the universe will eventually expand apart in all directions, and disappear completely, I would say that god needs to read one or two more books on the subject before he tries to do it again.

Who says it has to last forever? If He created it, he can destroy it when He's done with it.

Why does he hide?

Because He has no desire or need to perform tricks on command for unbelievers. Now, again, why do you think you're capable of designing a test that He cannot ignore?

Oh but he did have the desire to go talk to Adam & Eve, Abraham, Moses, Noah and every other liar in the bible who said god talked to them? You theists are cherry pickers. You believe your bibles but not all the holy books that came before or after? What makes yours any different? In fact Noah isn't even the first flood story.

There are 2 arguments. 1. There is a generic god. He didn't talk to Moses or Mohammad, theists who believe in him don't believe he ever came and talked to anyone. 2. Then there is the specific god(s). The ones who talked to Jesus or Mohammad or Joe Smith.

The funny thing about people who believe in generic god is that they too cherry pick from the organized religions. When I ask them why this creator is hiding they say, "he's testing you". So in some small way,without any proof, reason or knowledge, these people choose to believe in a god that monitors your good and evil. So they too are brainwashed.

Have you watched the Cosmos? Why is it that the religion you believe burned scientists in the past for things we know today are true? They did it because the law back then was you do not question authority. And if Giordano Bruno was right, that would open the church up to a lot more questions. If they were so wrong about that, what else are they wrong about? I would suggest the entire premise of their religion is false. There is no god. They made him up. People believed before they made up their specific god, they just said he came and confirmed his existence. And you don't think I should ask for proof? What kind of fools are you? Challenge authority means don't swallow the bullshit your parents told you that their parents told them and who's parents told them and those people lived in a time when you either believed or died or were sent away.

Giordano Bruno believed in god too but they still burned him. He told the Christians like Martin Luther that their god was too small. That god was much bigger than what they thought. If I were going to believe in a creator or god, I would agree with Bruno. A "creator" of the universe is not watching you, does not care about you. You are just one species on one planet of trillions and trillions of planets. It'd be like you caring for every living thing in a fish tank. Not just the fish but the smaller creatures like the Tardigrade, the Cryptosporidium, the Anabaena, Rotifers, Copepods, etc. Oh, and not just one fish tank. Let me give you 100 billion fish tanks and tell you to care about every creature in every tank. See how/why your religion is outdated and makes no sense? Sure an all powerful all knowing god could do it but that opens up a whole bunch of questions like why are some kids born with deseases? If he's perfect he wouldn't have created this world. He would have done a much better job. Religion was the best way we could explain our existence before science.

 

[hadit]

Well, since science has already established that the universe will eventually expand apart in all directions, and disappear completely, I would say that god needs to read one or two more books on the subject before he tries to do it again.

Who says it has to last forever? If He created it, he can destroy it when He's done with it.

Why does he hide?

Because He has no desire or need to perform tricks on command for unbelievers. Now, again, why do you think you're capable of designing a test that He cannot ignore?

Oh but he did have the desire to go talk to Adam & Eve, Abraham, Moses, Noah and every other liar in the bible who said god talked to them? You theists are cherry pickers. You believe your bibles but not all the holy books that came before or after? What makes yours any different? In fact Noah isn't even the first flood story.

Tsk, tsk. How easily you wander astray. God speaks to many. What He doesn't do is speak to everyone who wants to see a supernatural trick. As for Noah not being the "first" flood story, what of it? Moses wrote the book in which the Biblical story is recorded. He lived long after the event in question, which means there were many opportunities for others to also record it. Are you sure you're even trying?

There are 2 arguments. 1. There is a generic god. He didn't talk to Moses or Mohammad, theists who believe in him don't believe he ever came and talked to anyone. 2. Then there is the specific god(s). The ones who talked to Jesus or Mohammad or Joe Smith.

The funny thing about people who believe in generic god is that they too cherry pick from the organized religions. When I ask them why this creator is hiding they say, "he's testing you". So in some small way,without any proof, reason or knowledge, these people choose to believe in a god that monitors your good and evil. So they too are brainwashed.

I don't say God is testing you, I say He's tapping on your shoulder and you're doing your darndest to ignore Him. Why else are you being such an Evangelistic Secular Humanist?

Have you watched the Cosmos? Why is it that the religion you believe burned scientists in the past for things we know today are true? They did it because the law back then was you do not question authority. And if Giordano Bruno was right, that would open the church up to a lot more questions. If they were so wrong about that, what else are they wrong about? I would suggest the entire premise of their religion is false. There is no god. They made him up. People believed before they made up their specific god, they just said he came and confirmed his existence. And you don't think I should ask for proof? What kind of fools are you? Challenge authority means don't swallow the bullshit your parents told you that their parents told them and who's parents told them and those people lived in a time when you either believed or died or were sent away.

There is a vast difference between a "religion" and a personal relationship with God Himself. You haven't experienced it, so of course you have no idea what it's like. You're like a guy chained to a wall in a cave, watching shadows on the wall, insisting that's all there is to anything anywhere. Meanwhile, I'm standing behind you telling you about the world outside, the sun, the grass and the animals.

Giordano Bruno believed in god too but they still burned him. He told the Christians like Martin Luther that their god was too small. That god was much bigger than what they thought. If I were going to believe in a creator or god, I would agree with Bruno. A "creator" of the universe is not watching you, does not care about you. You are just one species on one planet of trillions and trillions of planets. It'd be like you caring for every living thing in a fish tank. Not just the fish but the smaller creatures like the Tardigrade, the Cryptosporidium, the Anabaena, Rotifers, Copepods, etc. Oh, and not just one fish tank. Let me give you 100 billion fish tanks and tell you to care about every creature in every tank. See how/why your religion is outdated and makes no sense? Sure an all powerful all knowing god could do it but that opens up a whole bunch of questions like why are some kids born with deseases? If he's perfect he wouldn't have created this world. He would have done a much better job. Religion was the best way we could explain our existence before science.

Since you say that God is much bigger than we can possibly imagine, why would you have a hard time believing that He can indeed care for every fish in every fish tank everywhere? As for why children are born with disease, and you thinking He would never have created the world this way, you expose your ignorance. He created the world perfectly. Sin corrupted it. Seriously, you need to actually read the Word, not just what somebody says about it.

 

[sealybobo]

I have a relative who has a kid with slight autism. I don't think that is any kind of life. Not for the kid and not for her. I would have late term aborted if I knew my kid was going to come out like that. And if you would let us do stem cell research maybe we could prevent this from happening in the future. But for you we will make sure your kids have it because you think it is sweet, cute and adorable. You can continue to think that when the kid is in his 20's if he lives that long. And worry about what the hell is going to happen to it after you die if it out lives you. I'm a Spartan. I'd throw it in the pit if I could. No seriously I'd give it a lethal shot at birth if the law allowed.

And I don't want to get off topic with you on how you think we need religion to have morality. Religion is a great way for bad people to feel good about themselves. Not necessary. I don't murder people because I don't want to go to jail and because I wouldn't want someone to murder someone I care about. I have empathy. No god needed.

P.S. If I had a Down Syndrom baby, no one would love the little bastard more than I would. BUT, I have to admit, if I knew ahead of time I would put it out of it's misery and mine. Because raising that kid would be horrible. I know you would get use to it and you would love it but fuck that. Same way I wouldn't put my mother down right now even though she's going through Alzheimers. I know that the old her would want to be dead rather than to be living the way she is right now. I would too. Who wants to live like that? What kind of life is that? Plus the stress on my dad and his pocket book if he ever has to put her in a home. Euthenasia should be legal in all 50 states, not just a few of them. Same way Gordy Howe had to fly to California to get good stem cell help because it is illegal in Michigan. Why? Because of God who does not even exist?

I don't know what rock you've been under, but no one has stopped or prevented stem cell research, at least the research that doesn't involve killing something first. It's going fine, and in fact has produced several useful treatments. Nice to know your logic is kicking in a little bit there, wanting to put down the less fortunate and all. Can't have them inconveniencing anyone, after all. Just take them out to the barn and shoot 'em. Be better for everyone. Nice and logical.

You're dumb. Gordy Howe has the $ to fly to California to get stem cell research that works. What about all the people who don't have the $ to fly to Cali? Your foolish religious beliefs have held mankind back for thousands of years. Time for it to end.

Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.
Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so. Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it. Follow the evidence, were ever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.
And perhaps even the most important rule of all, remember you could be wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about something. Newton, Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made mistakes. Of course they did, their were human. Science is a way keep from fooling ourselves and each other.

Of course, your "well designed test" relies on the arrogant presumption that you can design a test that cannot be ignored by a superior being. Can an ant design a test to prove the existence of scientists in a lab if the scientists decide when, if, and how to enter the ants' existence? No.

Wait a minute. You come tell me a story that is unbelievable and has to be taken on faith that you swallowed from a clearly corrupt society/church and you're saying we're being arrogant for wanting more proof?

If I proved to you beyond any doubt whatsoever that every word of the Bible is true, would it make any difference in your life? Would you be any more inclined to accept His Lordship? If not, there's no point in proving anything to you.

Maybe the poor and stupid in Europe swallowed those stories 2000 years ago to date but I think man has gotten too smart for your organized religion. Time to come up with a new one.

P.S. Did you know some of Jesus' disciples were sure the end was coming in their life time? 2000 years later...Stop waiting. Lets get off this planet. Less bombs more space ships and stop polluting the planet.

Of course they were prepared for that eventuality, silly person. Jesus told them straight up to be ready at all times. That's obvious to even the lightest of Biblical scholars.

Of course it would make a huge difference if I believed the bible, koran or old testament. Now would I be a Martin Luther type and beat myself and sleep in the snow in order to be closer with Jesus who suffered on the cross? Probably not. Most Christians aren't that extreme. But would I go to church once a week and truly believe Jesus was the Messiah? Of course I would. Hell, I might even devote my life to it.

Or if I were a Muslim, would I pray 5 times a day? Yes I would. If I believed in god.

But I don't believe. And what does it matter? Your religion says I'll go to hell, Muslims say I should be put to death. In fact in the late 1500's your church would have killed me too.

Knowing this history of your religion and every other religion, it is impossible for me to believe the books your church hands me. If you aren't Catholic your church spawned from them. Do you even know the hsitory of the Catholic Church? Even if I believed in god I wouldn't believe he liked the Catholic Church. That means every Christian is swallowing a lie no matter if you are a Lutheran, Protestant, Baptist. The entire premise is made up.

Just look at all the Jews who saw Jewish Jesus do miracles. Hardly any of them converted. The early history you think is real is all a lie. There weren't thousands of witnesses that saw Jesus do miracles and they told their kids and that is the early start to Christianity. Not at all. They say thousands witnessed Jesus but the Christian religion was started by 11 guys 60 years after the fact in Greece. Paul or one of the desciples went to Greece and told those stupid illiterate Greeks an amazing story and they bought it. All I have to think about is my uneducated Greek grandmother when she told me the stories in the bible. This woman had a 3rd grade education and she was so superstitious and gullible.

When I credit "the Greeks" for things like math and philosophy and astronomy, realize I'm only crediting a small number of people. The masses like in every other society are sheep and dumb. Consider if not for a few guys like Bruno, Einstein and Newton, Oort, Hailey, Michael Faraday,we'd still be living in the stone ages.

Every Christian needs to watch the Cosmos. Once you know the history of religion maybe you won't be so sure about your one little religion.

Consider this. Put the history of the universe on a 12 month calendar. If the universe is 13.5 billion years old, all recorded human history is but the last 40 seconds on the last day of the year. We didn't know shit until we invented the microscope. And we are just now starting to figure everything out, no thanks to religions. To say "must be god" or "god did it" is a cop out. That's what people say when they don't know the answers. Better to say you don't know and keep looking.

 

[orogenicman]

Anyone who believes in God needs to watch the Cosmos. Watch the new one with Neil Degrasse Tyson and the old one with Carl Sagan. Once you learn the history of man, science and religion you will realize god(s) were made up long before we decided to just go with one god. Religious ignorance has held us back thousands of years. Religious people love to brag that it was on their watch that we came up with cures and that it was religious people who got us on the moon. They expose their ignorance to the fact that many of the scientists were/are atheists. They try to ignore the history of how many scientists were put to death for heresy by the churches for things that turned out to be correct. But today the church doesn't get so upset if you suggest the earth isn't the center of the universe or that the sun revolves around the earth because churches change with the times. They've learned not to fight science and instead ignore your anti scientific history and embrace science. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

300 years before Christ, Aristarchus of Samos discovered the earth was not the center of the universe. But it wasn't until the year 1500 of our lord that someone dared suggest it again. Who squashed this fact for 1800 years? Religion.

Think about instead of the 50 year cold war and all the other wars we fought if we would have put the time and energy into colonizing Mars. Take all the nukes we have built since the 1950's and tell me how much money that is. Human beings are stupid. One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.

One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.
is that one way?....just play along here Bobo.....what if Steven Hawking said he believes in a higher "being" "power" or a higher something....would you still think he is a dumbass?...some rather intelligent people are able to keep their Beliefs separate from what they can observe....if a "God" does indeed exist, he used science to create all this...what opportunist did afterwards to get power is another matter....and those kinds of people have always been around....

Even the smartest minds sometimes gets things dead wrong.

 

[hadit]

I don't know what rock you've been under, but no one has stopped or prevented stem cell research, at least the research that doesn't involve killing something first. It's going fine, and in fact has produced several useful treatments. Nice to know your logic is kicking in a little bit there, wanting to put down the less fortunate and all. Can't have them inconveniencing anyone, after all. Just take them out to the barn and shoot 'em. Be better for everyone. Nice and logical.

You're dumb. Gordy Howe has the $ to fly to California to get stem cell research that works. What about all the people who don't have the $ to fly to Cali? Your foolish religious beliefs have held mankind back for thousands of years. Time for it to end.

Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.
Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so. Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it. Follow the evidence, were ever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.
And perhaps even the most important rule of all, remember you could be wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about something. Newton, Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made mistakes. Of course they did, their were human. Science is a way keep from fooling ourselves and each other.

Of course, your "well designed test" relies on the arrogant presumption that you can design a test that cannot be ignored by a superior being. Can an ant design a test to prove the existence of scientists in a lab if the scientists decide when, if, and how to enter the ants' existence? No.

Wait a minute. You come tell me a story that is unbelievable and has to be taken on faith that you swallowed from a clearly corrupt society/church and you're saying we're being arrogant for wanting more proof?

If I proved to you beyond any doubt whatsoever that every word of the Bible is true, would it make any difference in your life? Would you be any more inclined to accept His Lordship? If not, there's no point in proving anything to you.

Maybe the poor and stupid in Europe swallowed those stories 2000 years ago to date but I think man has gotten too smart for your organized religion. Time to come up with a new one.

P.S. Did you know some of Jesus' disciples were sure the end was coming in their life time? 2000 years later...Stop waiting. Lets get off this planet. Less bombs more space ships and stop polluting the planet.

Of course they were prepared for that eventuality, silly person. Jesus told them straight up to be ready at all times. That's obvious to even the lightest of Biblical scholars.

Of course it would make a huge difference if I believed the bible, koran or old testament. Now would I be a Martin Luther type and beat myself and sleep in the snow in order to be closer with Jesus who suffered on the cross? Probably not. Most Christians aren't that extreme. But would I go to church once a week and truly believe Jesus was the Messiah? Of course I would. Hell, I might even devote my life to it.

Or if I were a Muslim, would I pray 5 times a day? Yes I would. If I believed in god.

But I don't believe. And what does it matter? Your religion says I'll go to hell, Muslims say I should be put to death. In fact in the late 1500's your church would have killed me too.

Knowing this history of your religion and every other religion, it is impossible for me to believe the books your church hands me. If you aren't Catholic your church spawned from them. Do you even know the hsitory of the Catholic Church? Even if I believed in god I wouldn't believe he liked the Catholic Church. That means every Christian is swallowing a lie no matter if you are a Lutheran, Protestant, Baptist. The entire premise is made up.

Dude, again you reveal ignorance. Have you ever heard of the Reformation? Since you obviously have not, I'll help you. The Dark Ages weren't just dark for science and society, they were dark for the Church. The Catholic Church became impossibly corrupt and apostate. The Reformation was sparked by Catholic priests who looked at what was going on, compared it to Scripture and realized the two were completely at odds. Many of them paid the ultimate price for their efforts to reform the Church.

Just look at all the Jews who saw Jewish Jesus do miracles. Hardly any of them converted. The early history you think is real is all a lie. There weren't thousands of witnesses that saw Jesus do miracles and they told their kids and that is the early start to Christianity. Not at all.

This is why there would be no point to God coming down to earth in front of you and doing all kinds of miracles. When you refuse to believe, you will refuse to believe even the hardest of proof.

They say thousands witnessed Jesus but the Christian religion was started by 11 guys 60 years after the fact in Greece.

You're just making it all up as you go along, aren't you?

Paul or one of the desciples went to Greece and told those stupid illiterate Greeks an amazing story and they bought it. All I have to think about is my uneducated Greek grandmother when she told me the stories in the bible. This woman had a 3rd grade education and she was so superstitious and gullible.

Paul wasn't a disciple, BTW. In fact, he was a Pharisee who hunted down Christians in the early church to imprison them, so you have a problem. He couldn't have started the church if he was trying to stop it before he was converted.

When I credit "the Greeks" for things like math and philosophy and astronomy, realize I'm only crediting a small number of people. The masses like in every other society are sheep and dumb. Consider if not for a few guys like Bruno, Einstein and Newton, Oort, Hailey, Michael Faraday,we'd still be living in the stone ages.

I'm sure you believe that falsehood. Here's a hint. The Dark Ages are over, and have been for a long time.

[qoute]Every Christian needs to watch the Cosmos. Once you know the history of religion maybe you won't be so sure about your one little religion.[/quote]

Again, religion and a relationship with a living God are not the same things. I don't expect you to understand it, because you can't.

Consider this. Put the history of the universe on a 12 month calendar. If the universe is 13.5 billion years old, all recorded human history is but the last 40 seconds on the last day of the year. We didn't know shit until we invented the microscope. And we are just now starting to figure everything out, no thanks to religions. To say "must be god" or "god did it" is a cop out. That's what people say when they don't know the answers. Better to say you don't know and keep looking.

Also better to admit you're working from a false premise when you insist before looking that you cannot ever be allowed to discover something greater than yourself.

 

[sealybobo]

Well, since science has already established that the universe will eventually expand apart in all directions, and disappear completely, I would say that god needs to read one or two more books on the subject before he tries to do it again.

Who says it has to last forever? If He created it, he can destroy it when He's done with it.

Why does he hide?

Because He has no desire or need to perform tricks on command for unbelievers. Now, again, why do you think you're capable of designing a test that He cannot ignore?

Why else are you being such an Evangelistic Secular Humanist?

There is a vast difference between a "religion" and a personal relationship with God Himself. You haven't experienced it, so of course you have no idea what it's like. You're like a guy chained to a wall in a cave, watching shadows on the wall, insisting that's all there is to anything anywhere. Meanwhile, I'm standing behind you telling you about the world outside, the sun, the grass and the animals.

Giordano Bruno believed in god too but they still burned him. He told the Christians like Martin Luther that their god was too small. That god was much bigger than what they thought. If I were going to believe in a creator or god, I would agree with Bruno. A "creator" of the universe is not watching you, does not care about you. You are just one species on one planet of trillions and trillions of planets. It'd be like you caring for every living thing in a fish tank. Not just the fish but the smaller creatures like the Tardigrade, the Cryptosporidium, the Anabaena, Rotifers, Copepods, etc. Oh, and not just one fish tank. Let me give you 100 billion fish tanks and tell you to care about every creature in every tank. See how/why your religion is outdated and makes no sense? Sure an all powerful all knowing god could do it but that opens up a whole bunch of questions like why are some kids born with deseases? If he's perfect he wouldn't have created this world. He would have done a much better job. Religion was the best way we could explain our existence before science.

Since you say that God is much bigger than we can possibly imagine, why would you have a hard time believing that He can indeed care for every fish in every fish tank everywhere? As for why children are born with disease, and you thinking He would never have created the world this way, you expose your ignorance. He created the world perfectly. Sin corrupted it. Seriously, you need to actually read the Word, not just what somebody says about it.

Why am I being an Evangelistic Secular Humanist? Because I think belief in god is holding us back. I think believing in something for bad reasons is bad for people. I believe "they" have used religion to hold us back. Have you watched the Cosmos yet? Learn the history of man. How great men and great societies made great advancements but then those advancements disappeared because of "authority". No bigger authority than a church especially back when church and state were one and the same.

Remember, your religion came from a time when free speech and free thinking were not allowed. So they told your ancestors that god talked to them and don't you dare fucking question them!

I haven't had a personal relationship with god? WOW! How wrong you are again. When I realized all organized religions were bullshit, I had a personal relationship with god for YEARS! Christians told me that wasn't enough. I had to believe their story or burn in hell. It wasn't until watching the Cosmos with atheists friends that I realized that there is no god. Why there is no god

And so what if I don't believe something intelligently created us? The only people who think it matters are organized religions like Christianity and Islam. Those religions are evil and lies.

Sin corrupted this world? That's your answer for why babies get cancer? Boy you theists have an answer for everything. Not a good answer but good enough for you. Anyways, so you clearly believe the bible literally and you believe the Adam & Eve story is not an allegory. You take it as fact. That puts you on the level of insane or retarded.

Clearly you have not watched the Cosmos yet. I have read your books. You think that explanation passes the test? That because Adam ate an apple or fig that god allows children to get diseases?

Funny god didn't give us any cures. He didn't tell us which plants to use to heal the sick or all the things doctors/scientists have had to come up with via trial and error for thousands of years. Seriously, your god is a dick and your religion sucks.

 

[sealybobo]

We have very good evidence evolution is real and god was made up. And I promise you I have no evil motive behind not liking religion. And it is not the devil in me. If you come back with that, that makes you stupid.

I just remembered a scene in the Cosmos. The religious establishment laughed at the pStar Trekerson who came up with Tactonic Plates and the theory that the earth use to be one big continent but then broke apart. PangeaEvery. The religious establishment insisted that there was a land bridge that the animals crossed but scientifically that argument has so many holes it makes no sense. But for years the establishment laughed at the idea. The scientist died before his theory was proven true. Why does the religious establishment fight science so much? Because religion is and has always been so wrong about everything. You think your religion is perfect? Sure after being edited for thousands of years by kings and popes.

The earth is still connected. Believe it or not, get down below the water and you will find a dirt bottom that you could walk over from one region of the earth to the other. The earth is still connected, it just has a few mud puddles in the way now.

Evolution is a bunch of myths, fables, and science fiction. Star Trek is just as real. Nothing about evolution can be substantiated Every aspect of evolution is a mathematical impossibility. Evolution has been rife with hoax and corruption. Every missing link has been proven a hoax or misrepresentation. Myth and fraud.

What about Plate Tectonics? The earth is alive. Did god reveal that or science?

So you think God sat down and designed each and every one of the millions of beatles that exist today? They didn't all evolve from a single species?

Many scientists and philosophers of science have described evolution as fact and theory, a phrase which was used as the title of an article by Stephen Jay Gould in 1981. He describes fact in science as meaning data, not absolute certainty but "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent." A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of such facts. The facts of evolution come from observational evidence of current processes, from imperfections in organisms recording historical common descent, and from transitions in the fossil record. Theories of evolution provide a provisional explanation for these facts

Religion is the myth. Religion(s) don't hold up to the test that the theory of evolution passed. Sorry dummy.

(1) Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.

(2) Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so.

(3) Test ideas by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well-designed test, it's wrong. Get over it.

(4) Follow the evidence wherever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.

And perhaps the most important rule of all...

(5) Remember: you could be wrong. Even the best scientists have been wrong about some things. Newton, Einstein, and every other great scientist in history -- they all made mistakes. Of course they did. They were human.

Science is a way to keep from fooling ourselves, and each other. You're fooling yourself. Know what that makes you? A fool.

It is hard for you to understand because evolution happens over millions of years. Want to see a great example? Look at a Poodle or Chawawa. Know where they came from? The wolf. We made them by picking the traits we liked. So we know evolution is real. It is accepted as fact. Anyone who challenges it is now the nut job were in the past people believed religion. Why is religion losing? Because it doesn't stand the scientific test and never will. You have to be dumb and have faith.

Youtube
4 Billion Years of Evolution in 40 Seconds

You came from a bacteria. Then a fish, then a small mammal, then a monkey then man. Took millions of years.

I'll go with what science says, you go with a book written 1000's of years ago by superstitious ignorant controlling rules/priests/societies.

1. 
   
   
   • Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me. Think for yourself.
   • Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so.
   • Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it.
   • Follow the evidence, wherever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.
   • And perhaps even the most important rule of all: remember you could be wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about somethings. Newton, Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made mistakes. Of course they did, their were human. Science is a way keep from fooling ourselves and each other.

What I'm saying is for the earth to even have been positioned where it is by sheer happenstance is a mathematical impossibility.

For a single asexual cell to have come out of some slime pit, mutated and divided into anything at all is a mathematical impossibility.

For a single cell to have ever mutated and divided into even a four cell organism is such an impossibility that one could not write the number of zeros in a single day.

Evolution is a myth, a mathematical impossibility. Even most all of your missing links have been proven to be hoaxes.

Why is it impossible? There are 100's of billions of stars in our galaxy alone and planets around every one of those stars. Now consider there are 100's of billions of galaxies in our known universe. There might be "life" around every sun. In fact the suns and planets are living organisms themselves. Do you know microbes or bacteria can live on meteors and asteroids? This is one way life might have come to our planet. They theorize this because of meteor rocks they found on the bottom of the ocean floor that are the same age as the last die off. You know what? I can't remember all the details. Point is that science has come up with a couple theories on how life started on earth. Watch the Cosmos and Neal Degrasse Tyson or Carl Sagan will explain how they came up with their theories. Are they perfect? No. Do they have all the answers? No. Could they be wrong? Sure. But their theories stand up to the test. Religion does not. That's my point. In fact I was watching the Cosmos last night and they were talking about some Bruno guy who first figured out the universe and he said the universe does not revolve around our planet. Religion burned him at the stake. So how are you all taking the word of religion when you know that history? And how does religion still have any credibility? The answer is, people want to believe and/or they are scared into believing or they can't imagine any other way.

So the mathamatical improbability is that we are the only life in our galaxy, let alone the universe. So it is not mathamatically impossible. It is a fact and science knows exactly how it happened. Is it amazing how perfect everything is and had to be for us to be here? Sure is. But there have already been 4 major die offs where life almost got wiped out on this planet. Not to mention we won't be here forever. So enjoy it while it lasts.

You are dead wrong about evolution. At least that is what science says. WRONG. If you do your research and still don't believe in evolution, you please tell us your theory. Tell us how god sat down and intelligently designed 1/2 a billion beatles and why 1 billion beatles are now extinct. I'm not going to try to explain it to you. Like you theists say, "you gotta read the bible" well you gotta watch the Cosmos. It is better than any religious book ever written. It stands up to the test.

A single cell can evolve into a 2 cell organism over millions of years. See, this is your sides problem. You guys don't realize we are just one little itty bitty planet in the universe and you are just one animal on this planet. If the universe has been here for a year, man has only been here for 1 day. The last day of the year. And "we" think we know it all. How did we get here? Must be god. End of conversation. Burn me at the stake if I question you too.

Sorry but it is your theories that are impossible and don't pass the test.

(1) Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so. Mary was a virgin? And you swallowed that?

(2) Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so. If you are a Christian, you're basically believing the story passed down by the very corrupt Catholic Church. Remember what they did to
Giordano Bruno in the 1600's just for trying to explain the universe is much bigger than anyone ever thought? He even believed in god! It wasn't like he was an atheist. Doesn't matter. They still killed him. So this is where your fables come from.


(3) Test ideas by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well-designed test, it's wrong. Get over it. This is how they came up with evolution and realized your creation story is wrong. Miracles, virgin births, rising from the dead, the noah story, parting of the seas. None of these things pass the test.

(4) Follow the evidence wherever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment. Like us. We don't say there is no god. We just see no evidence. As a scientist we'll remain open to the possibility. But to tell us we'll go to hell? That's not science. That's emotional blackmale. That's what is done to stupid people. Are you?

And perhaps the most important rule of all...

(5) Remember: you could be wrong. Even the best scientists have been wrong about some things. Newton, Einstein, and every other great scientist in history -- they all made mistakes. Of course they did. They were human.

Science is a way to keep from fooling ourselves, and each other.

Go find yourself someone with a major in mathematics and ask him to provide you with the possibility that life sprang forth from a single asexual cell and see what he will tell you when he gets through crunching the numbers.

100% possible and probable is what they told me. And they said if you think otherwise, please provide proof/links.

Some species alternate between the sexual and asexual strategies, an ability known as heterogamy, depending on conditions. Alternation is observed in severalrotifer species (cyclical parthenogenesis e.g. in Brachionus species) and a few types of insects, such as aphids which will, under certain conditions, produce eggs that have not gone through meiosis, thus cloning themselves. The cape bee Apis mellifera subsp. capensis can reproduce asexually through a process calledthelytoky. A few species of amphibians, reptiles, and birds have a similar ability (see parthenogenesis for examples). For example, the freshwater crustaceanDaphnia reproduces by parthenogenesis in the spring to rapidly populate ponds, then switches to sexual reproduction as the intensity of competition and predation increases. Another example are monogonont rotifers of the genus Brachionus, which reproduce via cyclical parthenogenesis: at low population densities females produce asexually and at higher densities a chemical cue accumulates and induces the transition to sexual reproduction. Many protists and fungi alternate between sexual and asexual reproduction.

 

[hadit]

Who says it has to last forever? If He created it, he can destroy it when He's done with it.

Why does he hide?

Because He has no desire or need to perform tricks on command for unbelievers. Now, again, why do you think you're capable of designing a test that He cannot ignore?

Why else are you being such an Evangelistic Secular Humanist?

There is a vast difference between a "religion" and a personal relationship with God Himself. You haven't experienced it, so of course you have no idea what it's like. You're like a guy chained to a wall in a cave, watching shadows on the wall, insisting that's all there is to anything anywhere. Meanwhile, I'm standing behind you telling you about the world outside, the sun, the grass and the animals.

Giordano Bruno believed in god too but they still burned him. He told the Christians like Martin Luther that their god was too small. That god was much bigger than what they thought. If I were going to believe in a creator or god, I would agree with Bruno. A "creator" of the universe is not watching you, does not care about you. You are just one species on one planet of trillions and trillions of planets. It'd be like you caring for every living thing in a fish tank. Not just the fish but the smaller creatures like the Tardigrade, the Cryptosporidium, the Anabaena, Rotifers, Copepods, etc. Oh, and not just one fish tank. Let me give you 100 billion fish tanks and tell you to care about every creature in every tank. See how/why your religion is outdated and makes no sense? Sure an all powerful all knowing god could do it but that opens up a whole bunch of questions like why are some kids born with deseases? If he's perfect he wouldn't have created this world. He would have done a much better job. Religion was the best way we could explain our existence before science.

Since you say that God is much bigger than we can possibly imagine, why would you have a hard time believing that He can indeed care for every fish in every fish tank everywhere? As for why children are born with disease, and you thinking He would never have created the world this way, you expose your ignorance. He created the world perfectly. Sin corrupted it. Seriously, you need to actually read the Word, not just what somebody says about it.

Why am I being an Evangelistic Secular Humanist? Because I think belief in god is holding us back. I think believing in something for bad reasons is bad for people. I believe "they" have used religion to hold us back. Have you watched the Cosmos yet? Learn the history of man. How great men and great societies made great advancements but then those advancements disappeared because of "authority". No bigger authority than a church especially back when church and state were one and the same.

They are not the same now, and Jesus never intended for His followers to enforce Christianity through the State. See, this is where your problem comes in. You keep going on about organized religion. Organized religion and Christianity are not the same thing.

Remember, your religion came from a time when free speech and free thinking were not allowed. So they told your ancestors that god talked to them and don't you dare fucking question them!

Actually, a prophet to ancient Israel had to prove God was speaking to them. If anything they said failed to happen, they were a false prophet. You keep saying you know all this stuff, but it's obvious you don't.

I haven't had a personal relationship with god? WOW! How wrong you are again. When I realized all organized religions were bullshit, I had a personal relationship with god for YEARS! Christians told me that wasn't enough. I had to believe their story or burn in hell. It wasn't until watching the Cosmos with atheists friends that I realized that there is no god. Why there is no god

Right, people who have a relationship with God tell you God is for real. People who don't tell you He isn't.

And so what if I don't believe something intelligently created us? The only people who think it matters are organized religions like Christianity and Islam. Those religions are evil and lies.

You'll think it matters too. You just don't now.

Sin corrupted this world? That's your answer for why babies get cancer? Boy you theists have an answer for everything. Not a good answer but good enough for you. Anyways, so you clearly believe the bible literally and you believe the Adam & Eve story is not an allegory. You take it as fact. That puts you on the level of insane or retarded.

I don't know if you realize this, silly humanist, but ranting, raving and using adolescent language doesn't enhance your credibility as an adult.

Clearly you have not watched the Cosmos yet. I have read your books. You think that explanation passes the test? That because Adam ate an apple or fig that god allows children to get diseases?

And you believe that life just miraculously appeared out of nothing, because a TV show told you it did.

Funny god didn't give us any cures. He didn't tell us which plants to use to heal the sick or all the things doctors/scientists have had to come up with via trial and error for thousands of years. Seriously, your god is a dick and your religion sucks.

I don't have a religion, so keep trying.

 

[sealybobo]

You're dumb. Gordy Howe has the $ to fly to California to get stem cell research that works. What about all the people who don't have the $ to fly to Cali? Your foolish religious beliefs have held mankind back for thousands of years. Time for it to end.

Question authority. No idea is true just because someone says so, including me.
Think for yourself. Question yourself. Don't believe anything just because you want to. Believing something doesn't make it so. Test ideas, by the evidence gained from observation and experiment. If a favorite idea fails a well designed test, it's wrong. Get over it. Follow the evidence, were ever it leads. If you have no evidence, reserve judgment.
And perhaps even the most important rule of all, remember you could be wrong. Even the best scientist have been wrong about something. Newton, Einstein, and ever other great scientist in history. They all made mistakes. Of course they did, their were human. Science is a way keep from fooling ourselves and each other.

Of course, your "well designed test" relies on the arrogant presumption that you can design a test that cannot be ignored by a superior being. Can an ant design a test to prove the existence of scientists in a lab if the scientists decide when, if, and how to enter the ants' existence? No.

Wait a minute. You come tell me a story that is unbelievable and has to be taken on faith that you swallowed from a clearly corrupt society/church and you're saying we're being arrogant for wanting more proof?

If I proved to you beyond any doubt whatsoever that every word of the Bible is true, would it make any difference in your life? Would you be any more inclined to accept His Lordship? If not, there's no point in proving anything to you.

Maybe the poor and stupid in Europe swallowed those stories 2000 years ago to date but I think man has gotten too smart for your organized religion. Time to come up with a new one.

P.S. Did you know some of Jesus' disciples were sure the end was coming in their life time? 2000 years later...Stop waiting. Lets get off this planet. Less bombs more space ships and stop polluting the planet.

Of course they were prepared for that eventuality, silly person. Jesus told them straight up to be ready at all times. That's obvious to even the lightest of Biblical scholars.

Of course it would make a huge difference if I believed the bible, koran or old testament. Now would I be a Martin Luther type and beat myself and sleep in the snow in order to be closer with Jesus who suffered on the cross? Probably not. Most Christians aren't that extreme. But would I go to church once a week and truly believe Jesus was the Messiah? Of course I would. Hell, I might even devote my life to it.

Or if I were a Muslim, would I pray 5 times a day? Yes I would. If I believed in god.

But I don't believe. And what does it matter? Your religion says I'll go to hell, Muslims say I should be put to death. In fact in the late 1500's your church would have killed me too.

Knowing this history of your religion and every other religion, it is impossible for me to believe the books your church hands me. If you aren't Catholic your church spawned from them. Do you even know the hsitory of the Catholic Church? Even if I believed in god I wouldn't believe he liked the Catholic Church. That means every Christian is swallowing a lie no matter if you are a Lutheran, Protestant, Baptist. The entire premise is made up.

Dude, again you reveal ignorance. Have you ever heard of the Reformation? Since you obviously have not, I'll help you. The Dark Ages weren't just dark for science and society, they were dark for the Church. The Catholic Church became impossibly corrupt and apostate. The Reformation was sparked by Catholic priests who looked at what was going on, compared it to Scripture and realized the two were completely at odds. Many of them paid the ultimate price for their efforts to reform the Church.

Just look at all the Jews who saw Jewish Jesus do miracles. Hardly any of them converted. The early history you think is real is all a lie. There weren't thousands of witnesses that saw Jesus do miracles and they told their kids and that is the early start to Christianity. Not at all.

This is why there would be no point to God coming down to earth in front of you and doing all kinds of miracles. When you refuse to believe, you will refuse to believe even the hardest of proof.

They say thousands witnessed Jesus but the Christian religion was started by 11 guys 60 years after the fact in Greece.

You're just making it all up as you go along, aren't you?

Paul or one of the desciples went to Greece and told those stupid illiterate Greeks an amazing story and they bought it. All I have to think about is my uneducated Greek grandmother when she told me the stories in the bible. This woman had a 3rd grade education and she was so superstitious and gullible.

Paul wasn't a disciple, BTW. In fact, he was a Pharisee who hunted down Christians in the early church to imprison them, so you have a problem. He couldn't have started the church if he was trying to stop it before he was converted.

When I credit "the Greeks" for things like math and philosophy and astronomy, realize I'm only crediting a small number of people. The masses like in every other society are sheep and dumb. Consider if not for a few guys like Bruno, Einstein and Newton, Oort, Hailey, Michael Faraday,we'd still be living in the stone ages.

I'm sure you believe that falsehood. Here's a hint. The Dark Ages are over, and have been for a long time.

[qoute]Every Christian needs to watch the Cosmos. Once you know the history of religion maybe you won't be so sure about your one little religion.

Again, religion and a relationship with a living God are not the same things. I don't expect you to understand it, because you can't.

Consider this. Put the history of the universe on a 12 month calendar. If the universe is 13.5 billion years old, all recorded human history is but the last 40 seconds on the last day of the year. We didn't know shit until we invented the microscope. And we are just now starting to figure everything out, no thanks to religions. To say "must be god" or "god did it" is a cop out. That's what people say when they don't know the answers. Better to say you don't know and keep looking.

Also better to admit you're working from a false premise when you insist before looking that you cannot ever be allowed to discover something greater than yourself.[/QUOTE]

It is you guys who can't see something greater than yourselves. In the Cosmos they explain that there comes a day in every persons life that they realize the world doesn't revolve around them. But this isn't true for Christians. They/You are so arrogant and ignorant to think you are special.

And at least you admit that at one point your church was corrupted. That's a step in the right direction. Maybe one day you'll realize every religion was made up. Your religion is no different.

Sorry I don't know about the Reformation. That's a term used by your religion to explain away it's flaws and corruption. Watch the Cosmos and you'll learn more of the history of guys like Martin Luther who was a nut job. He beat himself until bloody to be closer with Jesus. He slept in the snow until he almost died. He thought the second coming would happen in his lifetime. The other monks thought he was crazy. They were right. And he helped kill Bruno for saying the earth was not the center of the universe.

The universe is greater than myself. I am nothing but one animal on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in our universe.

 

[hadit]

Of course, your "well designed test" relies on the arrogant presumption that you can design a test that cannot be ignored by a superior being. Can an ant design a test to prove the existence of scientists in a lab if the scientists decide when, if, and how to enter the ants' existence? No.

Wait a minute. You come tell me a story that is unbelievable and has to be taken on faith that you swallowed from a clearly corrupt society/church and you're saying we're being arrogant for wanting more proof?

If I proved to you beyond any doubt whatsoever that every word of the Bible is true, would it make any difference in your life? Would you be any more inclined to accept His Lordship? If not, there's no point in proving anything to you.

Maybe the poor and stupid in Europe swallowed those stories 2000 years ago to date but I think man has gotten too smart for your organized religion. Time to come up with a new one.

P.S. Did you know some of Jesus' disciples were sure the end was coming in their life time? 2000 years later...Stop waiting. Lets get off this planet. Less bombs more space ships and stop polluting the planet.

Of course they were prepared for that eventuality, silly person. Jesus told them straight up to be ready at all times. That's obvious to even the lightest of Biblical scholars.

Of course it would make a huge difference if I believed the bible, koran or old testament. Now would I be a Martin Luther type and beat myself and sleep in the snow in order to be closer with Jesus who suffered on the cross? Probably not. Most Christians aren't that extreme. But would I go to church once a week and truly believe Jesus was the Messiah? Of course I would. Hell, I might even devote my life to it.

Or if I were a Muslim, would I pray 5 times a day? Yes I would. If I believed in god.

But I don't believe. And what does it matter? Your religion says I'll go to hell, Muslims say I should be put to death. In fact in the late 1500's your church would have killed me too.

Knowing this history of your religion and every other religion, it is impossible for me to believe the books your church hands me. If you aren't Catholic your church spawned from them. Do you even know the hsitory of the Catholic Church? Even if I believed in god I wouldn't believe he liked the Catholic Church. That means every Christian is swallowing a lie no matter if you are a Lutheran, Protestant, Baptist. The entire premise is made up.

Dude, again you reveal ignorance. Have you ever heard of the Reformation? Since you obviously have not, I'll help you. The Dark Ages weren't just dark for science and society, they were dark for the Church. The Catholic Church became impossibly corrupt and apostate. The Reformation was sparked by Catholic priests who looked at what was going on, compared it to Scripture and realized the two were completely at odds. Many of them paid the ultimate price for their efforts to reform the Church.

Just look at all the Jews who saw Jewish Jesus do miracles. Hardly any of them converted. The early history you think is real is all a lie. There weren't thousands of witnesses that saw Jesus do miracles and they told their kids and that is the early start to Christianity. Not at all.

This is why there would be no point to God coming down to earth in front of you and doing all kinds of miracles. When you refuse to believe, you will refuse to believe even the hardest of proof.

They say thousands witnessed Jesus but the Christian religion was started by 11 guys 60 years after the fact in Greece.

You're just making it all up as you go along, aren't you?

Paul or one of the desciples went to Greece and told those stupid illiterate Greeks an amazing story and they bought it. All I have to think about is my uneducated Greek grandmother when she told me the stories in the bible. This woman had a 3rd grade education and she was so superstitious and gullible.

Paul wasn't a disciple, BTW. In fact, he was a Pharisee who hunted down Christians in the early church to imprison them, so you have a problem. He couldn't have started the church if he was trying to stop it before he was converted.

When I credit "the Greeks" for things like math and philosophy and astronomy, realize I'm only crediting a small number of people. The masses like in every other society are sheep and dumb. Consider if not for a few guys like Bruno, Einstein and Newton, Oort, Hailey, Michael Faraday,we'd still be living in the stone ages.

I'm sure you believe that falsehood. Here's a hint. The Dark Ages are over, and have been for a long time.

[qoute]Every Christian needs to watch the Cosmos. Once you know the history of religion maybe you won't be so sure about your one little religion.

Again, religion and a relationship with a living God are not the same things. I don't expect you to understand it, because you can't.

Consider this. Put the history of the universe on a 12 month calendar. If the universe is 13.5 billion years old, all recorded human history is but the last 40 seconds on the last day of the year. We didn't know shit until we invented the microscope. And we are just now starting to figure everything out, no thanks to religions. To say "must be god" or "god did it" is a cop out. That's what people say when they don't know the answers. Better to say you don't know and keep looking.

Also better to admit you're working from a false premise when you insist before looking that you cannot ever be allowed to discover something greater than yourself.

It is you guys who can't see something greater than yourselves. In the Cosmos they explain that there comes a day in every persons life that they realize the world doesn't revolve around them. But this isn't true for Christians. They/You are so arrogant and ignorant to think you are special.

Oh, brother. Again with the TV show. You do know you're treating it like the Bible, right? The Christian in relationship with God understands that the only thing that makes him/her special is that God cares about him/her, nothing within themselves.

And at least you admit that at one point your church was corrupted. That's a step in the right direction. Maybe one day you'll realize every religion was made up. Your religion is no different.

It wasn't "my church". It wasn't even much of a Church at all. The true Church split off from it, realizing there was no way to continue in it and be true to Scripture.

Sorry I don't know about the Reformation. That's a term used by your religion to explain away it's flaws and corruption.

Explain away? Hardly. Identify flaws and corruption and eliminate them? Absolutely. That's still going on, BTW. Christians do not like the "prosperity Gospel" preachers on TV today because they're preaching against what Christ taught.

Watch the Cosmos and you'll learn more of the history of guys like Martin Luther who was a nut job. He beat himself until bloody to be closer with Jesus. He slept in the snow until he almost died.

That was far from uncommon in his day. Remember, he was a Catholic priest, steeped from childhood in the idea that you have to do penance for sin.

He thought the second coming would happen in his lifetime.

Jesus told His followers to live every day like He was coming at any moment.

The other monks thought he was crazy. They were right. And he helped kill Bruno for saying the earth was not the center of the universe.

Again, what part of the Catholic Church of that time being apostate do you not understand? Here's a quote from Luther that may help you understand how a person can be changed:

"Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."

You do admire those who question authority, correct?

The universe is greater than myself. I am nothing but one animal on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in our universe.

Of course. Quite a playground God created.

 

[sealybobo]

Why does he hide?

Because He has no desire or need to perform tricks on command for unbelievers. Now, again, why do you think you're capable of designing a test that He cannot ignore?

Why else are you being such an Evangelistic Secular Humanist?

There is a vast difference between a "religion" and a personal relationship with God Himself. You haven't experienced it, so of course you have no idea what it's like. You're like a guy chained to a wall in a cave, watching shadows on the wall, insisting that's all there is to anything anywhere. Meanwhile, I'm standing behind you telling you about the world outside, the sun, the grass and the animals.

Giordano Bruno believed in god too but they still burned him. He told the Christians like Martin Luther that their god was too small. That god was much bigger than what they thought. If I were going to believe in a creator or god, I would agree with Bruno. A "creator" of the universe is not watching you, does not care about you. You are just one species on one planet of trillions and trillions of planets. It'd be like you caring for every living thing in a fish tank. Not just the fish but the smaller creatures like the Tardigrade, the Cryptosporidium, the Anabaena, Rotifers, Copepods, etc. Oh, and not just one fish tank. Let me give you 100 billion fish tanks and tell you to care about every creature in every tank. See how/why your religion is outdated and makes no sense? Sure an all powerful all knowing god could do it but that opens up a whole bunch of questions like why are some kids born with deseases? If he's perfect he wouldn't have created this world. He would have done a much better job. Religion was the best way we could explain our existence before science.

Since you say that God is much bigger than we can possibly imagine, why would you have a hard time believing that He can indeed care for every fish in every fish tank everywhere? As for why children are born with disease, and you thinking He would never have created the world this way, you expose your ignorance. He created the world perfectly. Sin corrupted it. Seriously, you need to actually read the Word, not just what somebody says about it.

Why am I being an Evangelistic Secular Humanist? Because I think belief in god is holding us back. I think believing in something for bad reasons is bad for people. I believe "they" have used religion to hold us back. Have you watched the Cosmos yet? Learn the history of man. How great men and great societies made great advancements but then those advancements disappeared because of "authority". No bigger authority than a church especially back when church and state were one and the same.

They are not the same now, and Jesus never intended for His followers to enforce Christianity through the State. See, this is where your problem comes in. You keep going on about organized religion. Organized religion and Christianity are not the same thing.

Remember, your religion came from a time when free speech and free thinking were not allowed. So they told your ancestors that god talked to them and don't you dare fucking question them!

Actually, a prophet to ancient Israel had to prove God was speaking to them. If anything they said failed to happen, they were a false prophet. You keep saying you know all this stuff, but it's obvious you don't.

I haven't had a personal relationship with god? WOW! How wrong you are again. When I realized all organized religions were bullshit, I had a personal relationship with god for YEARS! Christians told me that wasn't enough. I had to believe their story or burn in hell. It wasn't until watching the Cosmos with atheists friends that I realized that there is no god. Why there is no god

Right, people who have a relationship with God tell you God is for real. People who don't tell you He isn't.

And so what if I don't believe something intelligently created us? The only people who think it matters are organized religions like Christianity and Islam. Those religions are evil and lies.

You'll think it matters too. You just don't now.

Sin corrupted this world? That's your answer for why babies get cancer? Boy you theists have an answer for everything. Not a good answer but good enough for you. Anyways, so you clearly believe the bible literally and you believe the Adam & Eve story is not an allegory. You take it as fact. That puts you on the level of insane or retarded.

I don't know if you realize this, silly humanist, but ranting, raving and using adolescent language doesn't enhance your credibility as an adult.

Clearly you have not watched the Cosmos yet. I have read your books. You think that explanation passes the test? That because Adam ate an apple or fig that god allows children to get diseases?

And you believe that life just miraculously appeared out of nothing, because a TV show told you it did.

Funny god didn't give us any cures. He didn't tell us which plants to use to heal the sick or all the things doctors/scientists have had to come up with via trial and error for thousands of years. Seriously, your god is a dick and your religion sucks.

I don't have a religion, so keep trying.

I believe what can be proven. And a god would not require a person to believe the authority of your parents or a church. That is exactly what a made up church would say though. Don't question authority and honor your mother and father. Doesn't matter if they are good parents. Honor them no matter what. Same thing they taught slaves. Respect and honor your master.

Life appeared out of nothing? I never said that. If you look at the science of it all, life started 13.5 billion years ago. Well the big bang happened then. Life on earth didn't start for billions of years after that. In fact the earth itself wasn't even formed then. It took billions of years after the big bang for our sun, the earth and our moon to form and then millions of years for the first life to form on this planet. Now compare these facts with your creation story. Also realize you are just one crazy theist. What you think/say isn't necessarily what all theists say. But science does have a consensus on what it believes. Doesn't matter where you were born. If you were in Saudi Arabia you'd be arguing for Mohammad and Islams beautiful story. It would make perfect sense to you just like Jesus does to you now.

The universe is all there is, was, and ever will be. There may be multiverses When every star dies they may fall together again and start all over again. Or black holes may start new universes. We may actually be the result of a black hole in another universe. God doesn't have to be eternal when the universe is. Maybe our planet will be gone one day and our sun and our solar system and our immediate viewable universe will die but the cosmos will last forever and has always been. No need for a creator.

The universe is much greater than your little creation story of god. In fact god stories are now pathetic to me. We've only been here and aware for about 40,000 years. We also only learned modern science in the last few hundreds of years. I guess its going to take awhile before people put Jesus down and pick science up.

The Voyager 1 goes 38,000 mph. Going at that speed it would take us 70,000 years to get to it. We know this because of science, not religion. If it weren't for religions/gods we'd have known this 5000 years ago.

 

[sealybobo]

Wait a minute. You come tell me a story that is unbelievable and has to be taken on faith that you swallowed from a clearly corrupt society/church and you're saying we're being arrogant for wanting more proof?

If I proved to you beyond any doubt whatsoever that every word of the Bible is true, would it make any difference in your life? Would you be any more inclined to accept His Lordship? If not, there's no point in proving anything to you.

Maybe the poor and stupid in Europe swallowed those stories 2000 years ago to date but I think man has gotten too smart for your organized religion. Time to come up with a new one.

P.S. Did you know some of Jesus' disciples were sure the end was coming in their life time? 2000 years later...Stop waiting. Lets get off this planet. Less bombs more space ships and stop polluting the planet.

Of course they were prepared for that eventuality, silly person. Jesus told them straight up to be ready at all times. That's obvious to even the lightest of Biblical scholars.

Of course it would make a huge difference if I believed the bible, koran or old testament. Now would I be a Martin Luther type and beat myself and sleep in the snow in order to be closer with Jesus who suffered on the cross? Probably not. Most Christians aren't that extreme. But would I go to church once a week and truly believe Jesus was the Messiah? Of course I would. Hell, I might even devote my life to it.

Or if I were a Muslim, would I pray 5 times a day? Yes I would. If I believed in god.

But I don't believe. And what does it matter? Your religion says I'll go to hell, Muslims say I should be put to death. In fact in the late 1500's your church would have killed me too.

Knowing this history of your religion and every other religion, it is impossible for me to believe the books your church hands me. If you aren't Catholic your church spawned from them. Do you even know the hsitory of the Catholic Church? Even if I believed in god I wouldn't believe he liked the Catholic Church. That means every Christian is swallowing a lie no matter if you are a Lutheran, Protestant, Baptist. The entire premise is made up.

Dude, again you reveal ignorance. Have you ever heard of the Reformation? Since you obviously have not, I'll help you. The Dark Ages weren't just dark for science and society, they were dark for the Church. The Catholic Church became impossibly corrupt and apostate. The Reformation was sparked by Catholic priests who looked at what was going on, compared it to Scripture and realized the two were completely at odds. Many of them paid the ultimate price for their efforts to reform the Church.

Just look at all the Jews who saw Jewish Jesus do miracles. Hardly any of them converted. The early history you think is real is all a lie. There weren't thousands of witnesses that saw Jesus do miracles and they told their kids and that is the early start to Christianity. Not at all.

This is why there would be no point to God coming down to earth in front of you and doing all kinds of miracles. When you refuse to believe, you will refuse to believe even the hardest of proof.

They say thousands witnessed Jesus but the Christian religion was started by 11 guys 60 years after the fact in Greece.

You're just making it all up as you go along, aren't you?

Paul or one of the desciples went to Greece and told those stupid illiterate Greeks an amazing story and they bought it. All I have to think about is my uneducated Greek grandmother when she told me the stories in the bible. This woman had a 3rd grade education and she was so superstitious and gullible.

Paul wasn't a disciple, BTW. In fact, he was a Pharisee who hunted down Christians in the early church to imprison them, so you have a problem. He couldn't have started the church if he was trying to stop it before he was converted.

When I credit "the Greeks" for things like math and philosophy and astronomy, realize I'm only crediting a small number of people. The masses like in every other society are sheep and dumb. Consider if not for a few guys like Bruno, Einstein and Newton, Oort, Hailey, Michael Faraday,we'd still be living in the stone ages.

I'm sure you believe that falsehood. Here's a hint. The Dark Ages are over, and have been for a long time.

[qoute]Every Christian needs to watch the Cosmos. Once you know the history of religion maybe you won't be so sure about your one little religion.

Again, religion and a relationship with a living God are not the same things. I don't expect you to understand it, because you can't.

Consider this. Put the history of the universe on a 12 month calendar. If the universe is 13.5 billion years old, all recorded human history is but the last 40 seconds on the last day of the year. We didn't know shit until we invented the microscope. And we are just now starting to figure everything out, no thanks to religions. To say "must be god" or "god did it" is a cop out. That's what people say when they don't know the answers. Better to say you don't know and keep looking.

Also better to admit you're working from a false premise when you insist before looking that you cannot ever be allowed to discover something greater than yourself.

It is you guys who can't see something greater than yourselves. In the Cosmos they explain that there comes a day in every persons life that they realize the world doesn't revolve around them. But this isn't true for Christians. They/You are so arrogant and ignorant to think you are special.

Oh, brother. Again with the TV show. You do know you're treating it like the Bible, right? The Christian in relationship with God understands that the only thing that makes him/her special is that God cares about him/her, nothing within themselves.

And at least you admit that at one point your church was corrupted. That's a step in the right direction. Maybe one day you'll realize every religion was made up. Your religion is no different.

It wasn't "my church". It wasn't even much of a Church at all. The true Church split off from it, realizing there was no way to continue in it and be true to Scripture.

Sorry I don't know about the Reformation. That's a term used by your religion to explain away it's flaws and corruption.

Explain away? Hardly. Identify flaws and corruption and eliminate them? Absolutely. That's still going on, BTW. Christians do not like the "prosperity Gospel" preachers on TV today because they're preaching against what Christ taught.

Watch the Cosmos and you'll learn more of the history of guys like Martin Luther who was a nut job. He beat himself until bloody to be closer with Jesus. He slept in the snow until he almost died.

That was far from uncommon in his day. Remember, he was a Catholic priest, steeped from childhood in the idea that you have to do penance for sin.

He thought the second coming would happen in his lifetime.

Jesus told His followers to live every day like He was coming at any moment.

The other monks thought he was crazy. They were right. And he helped kill Bruno for saying the earth was not the center of the universe.

Again, what part of the Catholic Church of that time being apostate do you not understand? Here's a quote from Luther that may help you understand how a person can be changed:

"Unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason - I do not accept the authority of the popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other - my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and I will not recant anything for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen."

You do admire those who question authority, correct?

The universe is greater than myself. I am nothing but one animal on one planet in one solar system in one galaxy in our universe.

Of course. Quite a playground God created.

Why would I give more credibility to a 2000 year old book than I do a modern day science show that provides facts and proof of their beliefs?

Anyways, it is obvious you have no watched the Cosmos yet.

 

[sealybobo]

Anyone who believes in God needs to watch the Cosmos. Watch the new one with Neil Degrasse Tyson and the old one with Carl Sagan. Once you learn the history of man, science and religion you will realize god(s) were made up long before we decided to just go with one god. Religious ignorance has held us back thousands of years. Religious people love to brag that it was on their watch that we came up with cures and that it was religious people who got us on the moon. They expose their ignorance to the fact that many of the scientists were/are atheists. They try to ignore the history of how many scientists were put to death for heresy by the churches for things that turned out to be correct. But today the church doesn't get so upset if you suggest the earth isn't the center of the universe or that the sun revolves around the earth because churches change with the times. They've learned not to fight science and instead ignore your anti scientific history and embrace science. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

300 years before Christ, Aristarchus of Samos discovered the earth was not the center of the universe. But it wasn't until the year 1500 of our lord that someone dared suggest it again. Who squashed this fact for 1800 years? Religion.

Think about instead of the 50 year cold war and all the other wars we fought if we would have put the time and energy into colonizing Mars. Take all the nukes we have built since the 1950's and tell me how much money that is. Human beings are stupid. One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.

One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.
is that one way?....just play along here Bobo.....what if Steven Hawking said he believes in a higher "being" "power" or a higher something....would you still think he is a dumbass?...some rather intelligent people are able to keep their Beliefs separate from what they can observe....if a "God" does indeed exist, he used science to create all this...what opportunist did afterwards to get power is another matter....and those kinds of people have always been around....

The first question in religious discussion remains: "Which God?"


The Cosmos could just as easily be evidence of a god as not.... but if God is, especially in light of this new evidence concerning our place in the universe and our point on The Timeline, doesn't it make sense that God's way bigger than the ancient stories of Monkeys from Earth?

First generation to let go of the past and put their faith instead in The Future and Monkey Spawn gets to watch their grandchildren explore the stars.

In the Cosmos they showed where we are in the Milky Way Galaxy and how far out 6500 years would be. It is only a fraction of the Milky Way galaxy. Proving that if we were only 6500 years old we wouldn't be able to see out of our galaxy let alone all the other galaxies we can see using telescopes.

How many years did science have to fight religion on this one point? Notice today most religions are backing down on their 6500 year claim. OR they say 7 days to god is not the same as 7 days to us. Oh how fucking convenient.

 

[sealybobo]

Anyone who believes in God needs to watch the Cosmos. Watch the new one with Neil Degrasse Tyson and the old one with Carl Sagan. Once you learn the history of man, science and religion you will realize god(s) were made up long before we decided to just go with one god. Religious ignorance has held us back thousands of years. Religious people love to brag that it was on their watch that we came up with cures and that it was religious people who got us on the moon. They expose their ignorance to the fact that many of the scientists were/are atheists. They try to ignore the history of how many scientists were put to death for heresy by the churches for things that turned out to be correct. But today the church doesn't get so upset if you suggest the earth isn't the center of the universe or that the sun revolves around the earth because churches change with the times. They've learned not to fight science and instead ignore your anti scientific history and embrace science. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

300 years before Christ, Aristarchus of Samos discovered the earth was not the center of the universe. But it wasn't until the year 1500 of our lord that someone dared suggest it again. Who squashed this fact for 1800 years? Religion.

Think about instead of the 50 year cold war and all the other wars we fought if we would have put the time and energy into colonizing Mars. Take all the nukes we have built since the 1950's and tell me how much money that is. Human beings are stupid. One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.

One way to tell how dumb someone is, ask them if they believe in god.
is that one way?....just play along here Bobo.....what if Steven Hawking said he believes in a higher "being" "power" or a higher something....would you still think he is a dumbass?...some rather intelligent people are able to keep their Beliefs separate from what they can observe....if a "God" does indeed exist, he used science to create all this...what opportunist did afterwards to get power is another matter....and those kinds of people have always been around....

Giordano Bruno & Newton believed in god.

 

[Dajjal]

Lets all watch Cosmos, and then everyone will know what the thread is trying to say. Here is episode 1.