The Dirty Little Truth About the Minimum Wage

[dblack]

The only honest answer, to all of your questions, is, of course, I don't know. Neither do you. But you seem to be suggesting that, deprived of the coercive power of government, society would simply give up on these problems and wallow in failure. I don't buy that.

It is what you want - but you have no idea what would happen if you got your way?

Yep. Just like you, eh?

In one sense, I do know what would happen. We'd have to work out ways to deal with social problems via voluntary cooperation, rather than state mandates.

This was never done before mandatory minimum wage. Churches did what they could do, of course, and still do, but they are and were overwhelmed. They would be even more over-whelmed in the scenario I present. It would be like putting a Band-Aid on a severed leg.

But this is your idea – what is your contingency plan.

More details are needed. Your response was pretty vague.

I have no desire to mandate any particular 'plan' on anyone. That's the point. It's not a proper responsibility of government.

You guys cannot see passed your hate. You have never even considered the consequences.

WTF??? Where does that come from? Who said anything about hate?

 

[Boss]

This was never done before mandatory minimum wage. Churches did what they could do, of course, and still do, but they are and were overwhelmed. They would be even more over-whelmed in the scenario I present. It would be like putting a Band-Aid on a severed leg.

But this is your idea – what is your contingency plan.

More details are needed. Your response was pretty vague.

The minimum wage isn't charity for the needy. Why are you conflating wages with charity? We have all kinds of "safety net" programs to ensure little kiddies don't starve to death, old people don't get abandoned out in the cold, sick people get medical treatment... all of that is done through our government already.

The minimum wage is the government telling businesses what they must pay employees. When you raise this amount, it means that business is more demanding on who and when they hire and what jobs will entail. This makes things particularly harder on the poor and minorities. Fewer jobs exist and the ones that do exist, command a more competent and productive person to fill them.

There have been examples given to you of jobs that were completely eliminated due to ever-increasing minimum wage mandates. The old service station attendant is a prime example. Jobs on the docks, construction site jobs, domestic help.. all kinds of areas where jobs have been eliminated because no one was willing to create such a job for such a cost. The free market handles this beautifully and allows individuals the liberty to have jobs and create jobs and give people work experience they need when starting their careers.

So when we hear "increase the minimum wage" that simply translates to "kill low end jobs." There is no other way around this, that IS the effect. But you somehow have it in your mind this is a charity thing.

 

[Boss]

You guys cannot see passed your hate.

But it's NOT hate... We aren't the ones who want to kill the jobs for poor people... that's you! That's what YOU want to do by increasing the minimum wage and acting like it's charity.

AND It's "see past your hate" ....as most 7th grade graduates should know. Here you are, trying to intellectually tell us why we should increase the minimum wage and kill jobs for poor folks because that seems like the charitable thing to do in your mind, and you can't even use proper grammar. This is what's wrong with the country... we have morons like you running the show.... other morons voting you into power... doing totally moronic things that we can't get through your head, don't work. And then you have the audacity to accuse US of hating people because we don't want to pretend we're morons like you.

 

[JoeB131]

So you are a racist then? Sad you make fun of hardworking people which again shows your lack of intelligence. Never heard of Eric Hoffer have you and if you did you
would be embarrassed. Oh and by the way mocking people usually is illustrated by putting "quotes" around your text... like you did "redneck"... But your lack of
writing skills plus your obvious totally missing the point of the OP's contribution!

I think any sensible person could have read what I wrote and got what I was saying... but please continue with your false outrage.... It's almost as funny as when you claim our Health Care system is perfectly fine.

I don't even have my 9 mm glock anymore , gave it up , pawned it 12 years ago.

I'm sure you needed the booze money.

Hey... dummy... HOW many people work at minimum wage today of $7.25/hour?
YOU also need a little education about WHO of the 3 million are!
Among those paid by the hour, 1.3 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 3.0 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 3.9 percent of all hourly paid workers.
Of the 3 million... 1.443 million ages 16 to 24!

So what? I know there are a lot of ladies out there working for tips who make below the minimum wage.

 

[JoeB131]

The rich pay over 70% of all collected income taxes. That's not fair?

You're right, they should be paying 90%.

Well.......Okay. But I don't know what that has to do with the fact lowering a CEO's pay won't help any customer one bit.

.
And p aying the people who do the work won't hurt the customer one bit.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The rich pay over 70% of all collected income taxes. That's not fair?

You're right, they should be paying 90%.

Well.......Okay. But I don't know what that has to do with the fact lowering a CEO's pay won't help any customer one bit.

.
And p aying the people who do the work won't hurt the customer one bit.

And p aying the people who do the work won't hurt the customer one bit.

Increased prices always hurts the customer.

You're right, they should be paying 90%.

Why don't they just pay 100% so you pay nothing into our society?

But the rich are the greedy ones?

 

[Markle]

You stupid dumb fuck propaganda tool

What about the price of

A ding dong?

Bread?

A candy bar?

Lawn care

God Damn fool pennies add up to probably around an extra $50 bucks or so a week

I agree. We totally need to cut the Million Dollar salaries of CEO's to make it fair for the consumer....

Oh, wait. Sorry, that's not what you are going for, is it?

For that, you may thank the husband of the current Democrat nominee for President.

From Bloomberg Business week

How Bill Clinton Helped Boost CEO Pay

Posted on November 26, 2006


Bill Clinton had what he thought was a great idea to curb the soaring paychecks of the nation's executives. It was 1991, shortly after the launch of his Presidential campaign, and he had just read a best seller on corporate greed by compensation guru Graef Crystal.


Clinton's brainstorm: Use the tax code to curb excessive pay.


Companies at the time were allowed to deduct all compensation to top executives. Clinton wanted to permit companies to write off amounts over $1 million only if executives hit specified performance goals. He called Crystal for his thoughts. "Utterly stupid," the consultant says he told the future President. THE SHAME GAME


Now, 13 years after Clinton's plan became law, the results are clear: It didn't work. Over the law's first decade, average compensation for chief executives at companies in Standard & Poor's 500-stock index soared from $3.7 million to $9.1 million, according to a 2005 Harvard Law School study. The law contains so many obvious loopholes, says Crystal, that "in 10 minutes even Forrest Gump could think up five ways around it."


My emphasis


Read more: How Bill Clinton Helped Boost CEO Pay

 

[Markle]

The rich pay over 70% of all collected income taxes. That's not fair?

You're right, they should be paying 90%.

Well.......Okay. But I don't know what that has to do with the fact lowering a CEO's pay won't help any customer one bit.

.
And paying the people who do the work won't hurt the customer one bit.

Except, as you well know, the people doing the work are paid exactly what they are worth, just as you are and I was before retiring. Pay them more, just for breathing and that gets passed to you, the customer.

 

[Markle]

Curious, I got my first "real" job when I was 16. That would have been 1960. I got a job bagging groceries for $0.85 an hour because we also got tips. Minimum wage otherwise was $1.00. NO ONE, NO ONE, expected or even dreamed of that being a "LIVING WAGE" or anything upon which to start a household. It is a place to START, learn a work ethic and move up.

Do you believe that workers remain in the same income level all their lives?

No, but here's the thing. You should make a living wage. Period.

Why are we even still discussing this?

I understand, you do not believe in personal responsibility. Just because you can breath doesn't mean you are worth a "living wage".

 

[Markle]

As you know, the Ku Klux Klan began as the radical wing of the Democrat Party.

Remnants of them have only recently dropped out of our Legislature.

wow, guy, doctored pictures certainly make your point.

Point is, it isn't the Democrats appealling to Klansmen today.. it's the GOP Candidate who won't denounce David Duke.

The point is, was Sen. Byrd a member of the Ku Klux Klan? Yes he was, he was a recruiter.

PLEASE show me where the Democrats have denounced the Occupy Wall Street Movement, the Black Lives Matter movement, and the New Black Panthers.

From the 2008 campaign.

 

[Markle]

That's not to mention out of those 3% of people, most are senior citizens just looking to keep occupied, high school or college kids looking for extra money, or stay at home wives that want to add to the household income while the kids are in school.

So let me get this straight. Senior Citizens lose their shirt in the Wall Street Casino, have to work for minimum wage to keep from eating dog food, and you think this is a good thing?

Battered Housewife Conservatism, everyone. No matter how badly the rich beat him down, he'll keep making excuses for them. He'll drive through the ruins of Cleveland - a true cesspool- and blame poor people for it.

Yeah, that would make it fair to the consumer. Let's see, if we get rid of that million dollar salary, divide that by the tens of millions of products Walmart sells per year, why that could reduce the cost of the products they buy by almost one-cent each.

Okay, let's look at that.


None

"The Walton family, which owns Wal-Mart, controls a fortune equal to the wealth of the bottom 42 percent of Americans combined."

Bivens wrote that in 2010, the wealth of six Walton family heirs was $89.5 billion, 22 percent higher than in 2007.

Meanwhile, the median wealth of American families in 2010 was $77,300, nearly 39 percent lower than three years earlier.

(Median wealth refers to the American family that is exactly wealthier than half of all families and less wealthy than half.)

As for measuring one against the other, Bivens said the Walton family wealth in 2010 was as large as the wealth of the bottom 48.8 million families in the United States, or 41.5 percent of all American families.

They are providing a service, they gave the consumer what they wanted and now you bitch about it?

God Damn someone like Taylor swift is rich as heck. She provided a service , people bought it

The Waltons destroyed small business in this country, and you want to pat them on the back for it.

Man, you people raise stupid to an art form.

Everywhere a Walmart has been built, retail prices to the community have gone down benefiting the low and middle-income workers. They also have lines of people looking for jobs so the unemployment goes down in the area.

We have two Walmarts and a Sam's in our area. We also have paint stores, hardware stores, lingerie stores, women's wear stores, men's wear stores, appliance stores, stores that sell only kitchenware, all are doing fine. They provide a higher quality product and personal service. They learned to survive and prosper. A win-win for everyone.

 

[Markle]

So you are a racist then? Sad you make fun of hardworking people which again shows your lack of intelligence. Never heard of Eric Hoffer have you and if you did you
would be embarrassed. Oh and by the way mocking people usually is illustrated by putting "quotes" around your text... like you did "redneck"... But your lack of
writing skills plus your obvious totally missing the point of the OP's contribution!

I think any sensible person could have read what I wrote and got what I was saying... but please continue with your false outrage.... It's almost as funny as when you claim our Health Care system is perfectly fine.

I don't even have my 9 mm glock anymore , gave it up , pawned it 12 years ago.

I'm sure you needed the booze money.

Hey... dummy... HOW many people work at minimum wage today of $7.25/hour?
YOU also need a little education about WHO of the 3 million are!
Among those paid by the hour, 1.3 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 3.0 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 3.9 percent of all hourly paid workers.
Of the 3 million... 1.443 million ages 16 to 24!

So what? I know there are a lot of ladies out there working for tips who make below the minimum wage.

And their income, including their tips, is way above minimum wage. Good waiters and waitresses make good money for hard work. My first "real" job was when I was 16 as a bag boy in a grocery store. The minimum wage was $1.00 per hour and we got $0.85 an hour plus tips. Working hard and really giving good service earned us a LOT more. The weekly paycheck from the store was usually less than the tips from working one 4:30-9:30 shift. Why is that bad?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And their income, including their tips, is way above minimum wage. Good waiters and waitresses make good money for hard work. My first "real" job was when I was 16 as a bag boy in a grocery store. The minimum wage was $1.00 per hour and we got $0.85 an hour plus tips. Working hard and really giving good service earned us a LOT more. The weekly paycheck from the store was usually less than the tips from working one 4:30-9:30 shift. Why is that bad?

Boy does that take me back.

During the Carter/ Reagan recession, I worked for a pizza place at night that I always did business with. He paid me $1.50 an hour plus gas money to deliver pizzas. Even then, that was well below minimum wage.

They would send me out with three or four deliveries, and I would have that completed in about a half-hour. With tips for those deliveries, I was making on average $10.00 for a half-hour work.

Mind you this didn't happen all night long, but you can make some pretty good money on tips. In fact one of my newest tenants has the same kind of job. While his actual pay was not impressive enough for me to trust him renting an apartment from me, my experience told me that he was making much more off the books. He and his girlfriend (now with child) have been successfully paying rent on time and keeping the apartment immaculate.

 

[Afterword]

AND It's "see past your hate" ....as most 7th grade graduates should know.

Just when you were starting to think I was perfect. Sorry to disappoint you. I also put my pants on one leg at a time.

 

[JoeB131]

Increased prices always hurts the customer.

Then we need to stop paying CEO's Eight figures.... simple enough, right/

Except, as you well know, the people doing the work are paid exactly what they are worth, just as you are and I was before retiring. Pay them more, just for breathing and that gets passed to you, the customer.

YOu see, this is where you Wingnuts get confused. The CEO contributes NOTHING to the good or services I recieve. The SHAREHOLDER contributes nothing to the goods or services I receive. So why should they get huge amounts of money and the folks who did the work get a pittance. That's where the system is truly fucked up.

I understand, you do not believe in personal responsibility. Just because you can breath doesn't mean you are worth a "living wage".

I don't take you guys terribly seriously on "personal responsibility" anymore. When Rush Limbaugh goes to the same prison the poor black kid does for doping, then I'll take you guys seriously on "Personal Responsibility".

The point is, was Sen. Byrd a member of the Ku Klux Klan? Yes he was, he was a recruiter.

PLEASE show me where the Democrats have denounced the Occupy Wall Street Movement, the Black Lives Matter movement, and the New Black Panthers.

Why should they? OWS and BLM have VALID LEGITIMATE POINTS. the NBP has about what, five members?

 

[JoeB131]

Everywhere a Walmart has been built, retail prices to the community have gone down benefiting the low and middle-income workers. They also have lines of people looking for jobs so the unemployment goes down in the area.

Except they only have so many jobs, and those jobs all disappear when Walmart has driven all the local businesses out of business and they close down and move...

But you keep taking it up the ass from the Walton Family.

Battered housewife Conservatives are sooooo fun to watch.

 

[Boss]

Then we need to stop paying CEO's Eight figures.... simple enough, right/

Well this would be fine if WE paid CEOs... WE don't pay them, their board of directors does. These are private sector companies who can vote to pay their CEO whatever they feel like and it's not any of YOUR business. IF CEOs were Federal funded from our tax revenues, THEN you could claim WE pay the CEOs... that's not the case.

 

[Boss]

The CEO contributes NOTHING to the good or services I recieve. The SHAREHOLDER contributes nothing to the goods or services I receive. So why should they get huge amounts of money and the folks who did the work get a pittance.

Just because you're fucked in the head doesn't mean we all are. The CEOs and shareholders contribute a company that must first exist for there to be folks on the assembly lines. "Do the work" is a misnomer you keep using which means nothing... there is LOTS of work in many different areas. You're focused myopically on one little cog in the machine which you've decided is the only important aspect. Well... it's NOT, Joey... there are thousands and thousands of others involved in the process. They all collectively "do the work" and they are all compensated for their contribution.

If you don't like their formula of distribution, you are free to go out and form your own company without shareholders or a CEO, and you can pay whoever you think deserves the money, whatever amount you think they deserve. Show us all how it's done, Joey! You live in a free enterprise system! Go for it!

 

[dblack]

Circling back to the OP, I'm not sure it's all that useful examining the supposed racist origins of minimum wage laws. Mostly because I don't think that's what is motivating supporters now. To them it just sounds like another conservative slur campaign.

But it is worth pointing out the negative effect that minimum wage has on people who want to move out of poverty via their own initiative. Minimum wage laws are part of a bulwark of regulation designed to prevent hungrier competitors from competing with established businesses. That's why 'business' (and by that I mean the lobbying front financed by dominant corporations) never challenges minimum wage laws in a meaningful way. Minimum wage laws, and all the other regulations that artificially boost the cost of entry in a given market, serve the interests of established businesses. That's why they remain on the books. And that's why they'll never be raised to anything meaningful.

 

[JoeB131]

Well this would be fine if WE paid CEOs... WE don't pay them, their board of directors does. These are private sector companies who can vote to pay their CEO whatever they feel like and it's not any of YOUR business. IF CEOs were Federal funded from our tax revenues, THEN you could claim WE pay the CEOs... that's not the case.

Actually, they are mostly publically held companies, and the government CAN regulate their pay.

Or we can just say anything over $999,999.00 is taxed at 100%. Problem solved.

Now I know you live in mortal terror some rich person won't be able to afford a new Dressage Horse, but the rest of us don't worry about these things.

ust because you're fucked in the head doesn't mean we all are. The CEOs and shareholders contribute a company that must first exist for there to be folks on the assembly lines. "Do the work" is a misnomer you keep using which means nothing... there is LOTS of work in many different areas. You're focused myopically on one little cog in the machine which you've decided is the only important aspect. Well... it's NOT, Joey... there are thousands and thousands of others involved in the process. They all collectively "do the work" and they are all compensated for their contribution.

Shareholders are parasites, and most CEO's are clueless. They are parasites who've convinced you they are vital organs..

Guess what, in Europe, the CEO's don't get six figures and the workers get good pay, and they produce better products than we do.