The God

[hangover]

Someone who can read. The Lord gives all men the ability to judge. And He shows how to do so righteously.

You really need to quit trying to write your own bible. Jesus said, "Judge NOT!" You condemn yourself with ignorance. GOD IS THE JUDGE, NOT YOU.

 

[hangover]

The criminals were judged my man for violating mans laws. Even those who were judged for violating religious laws were also judged by man.

That's a fancy two step. Can you square dance?

Non sequitur response.

Doe see doe.....

 

[Derideo_Te]

So much for being a spiritual man who sees things as they are.

You can deny it all you want. But Jesus is the Christ. The Holy Spirit has told me that. He is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. And that I am absolutely certain of because of the witness of the Holy Spirit. I don't claim to know all things. God hasn't given me that yet. But He has made me a witness of Jesus Christ. And who am I to deny God?

I don't care if you want to think you've refuted everything I've said. You haven't. But you are free to believe that all you want. But I know that the Lord has revealed the truth about Christ to me. And I know that God knows this. I dare not deny it, or I would condemn myself. And I know others have recieved their own witness as well.

You will never know God or His doctrines until you humble yourself before Him. Seek Him sincerely and you will find Him. Seek the truth, not just to know it, but to live accord to it, and you will find it. But if you continue to presume you know about God while proclaiming no one can, you will only delude yourself.

Who are you to judge how he sees things spiritually?

Someone who can read. The Lord gives all men the ability to judge. And He shows how to do so righteously.

The Ten Commandments are Eternal laws & Eternal Truths. One cannot see things as they are and yet deny things as they are.

Moreover, the spirit and the physical are connected. This also is an Eternal truth. We cannot separate our earthly actions from our spiritual life. All things are spiritual to the Lord. For example, taking care of the sick and the poor. It takes work. Sometimes we have to do alot of physical labor for them. But that doesn't make our service less spiritual.

If we become disciples of the Lord, we seek to serve Him in everything we do. We serve him in our careers no matter how secular it may seem. We serve Him in our homes and our family. We serve Him as we serve our community in civic matters. All this service is part of our worship and consecration. They may be physical labors, but they are just as spiritual.

God ask us to love Him. And the best way to love Him is to love His children and serve them.

So your qualifications for judging others are that you were taught to read by man and that you believe yourself to be qualified to judge others?

But you have zero qualifications to actually judge the spirituality of the OP because you don't have the ability to know what is happening inside of him/her. Furthermore your only response is to render a judgment that they are lacking in faith and then attempt to force the OP to believe as you do.

 

[flowery]

if you want to know who is the REAL GOD
watch this :



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d16CpWp-ok]THE MEANING OF LIFE | MUSLIM SPOKEN WORD | HD - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Avatar4321]

Someone who can read. The Lord gives all men the ability to judge. And He shows how to do so righteously.

You really need to quit trying to write your own bible. Jesus said, "Judge NOT!" You condemn yourself with ignorance. GOD IS THE JUDGE, NOT YOU.

Your citing one of the most out of context scriptures in the Bible. God doesn't say judge not. In fact, He commands us to judge righteously. "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24).

The scripture your citing says we will be judged with the judgment we use. Also clearly implying that we are to make judgments.

God has given us a mind to evaluate and look at things. He has also given us the Spirit to discern truth.

He has called men and women to be judges throughout the history of the Bible. In fact, there is an entire book of the Bible about some of those Judges called Judges. If we were to take your interpretation of the scriptures, God would be incredibly inconsistant commanding us not to judge and then calling judges to judge the people.

The judgment we are not support to make is the final judgment. We are not appointed in this life to judge who gets what rewards/punishments in the next life. Specifically because our lives aren't over. We can't say so and so will go to hell because there is a chance that so and so will recognize the error of his/her ways, repent of their sins and recieve Christ.

And even then the Lord will call some of His disciples to participate in the Final judgment. But that will be then and not something we are to worry about in this life.

On a personal note, I've found that those who screem the loudest about others judging are usually the ones who are doing things they sure as heck don't want to be judged for. If that's the case, I invite you to come to Christ and fix the things in your life that you are concerned about.

 

[Avatar4321]

Who are you to judge how he sees things spiritually?

Someone who can read. The Lord gives all men the ability to judge. And He shows how to do so righteously.

The Ten Commandments are Eternal laws & Eternal Truths. One cannot see things as they are and yet deny things as they are.

Moreover, the spirit and the physical are connected. This also is an Eternal truth. We cannot separate our earthly actions from our spiritual life. All things are spiritual to the Lord. For example, taking care of the sick and the poor. It takes work. Sometimes we have to do alot of physical labor for them. But that doesn't make our service less spiritual.

If we become disciples of the Lord, we seek to serve Him in everything we do. We serve him in our careers no matter how secular it may seem. We serve Him in our homes and our family. We serve Him as we serve our community in civic matters. All this service is part of our worship and consecration. They may be physical labors, but they are just as spiritual.

God ask us to love Him. And the best way to love Him is to love His children and serve them.

So your qualifications for judging others are that you were taught to read by man and that you believe yourself to be qualified to judge others?

But you have zero qualifications to actually judge the spirituality of the OP because you don't have the ability to know what is happening inside of him/her. Furthermore your only response is to render a judgment that they are lacking in faith and then attempt to force the OP to believe as you do.

I don't force anything on anyone. Both he and you are free to choose your own path. All I do is speak the truth and invite people to come to Christ.

Though I do find it amusing that you are trying to judge me while accusing me of judging.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Someone who can read. The Lord gives all men the ability to judge. And He shows how to do so righteously.

The Ten Commandments are Eternal laws & Eternal Truths. One cannot see things as they are and yet deny things as they are.

Moreover, the spirit and the physical are connected. This also is an Eternal truth. We cannot separate our earthly actions from our spiritual life. All things are spiritual to the Lord. For example, taking care of the sick and the poor. It takes work. Sometimes we have to do alot of physical labor for them. But that doesn't make our service less spiritual.

If we become disciples of the Lord, we seek to serve Him in everything we do. We serve him in our careers no matter how secular it may seem. We serve Him in our homes and our family. We serve Him as we serve our community in civic matters. All this service is part of our worship and consecration. They may be physical labors, but they are just as spiritual.

God ask us to love Him. And the best way to love Him is to love His children and serve them.

So your qualifications for judging others are that you were taught to read by man and that you believe yourself to be qualified to judge others?

But you have zero qualifications to actually judge the spirituality of the OP because you don't have the ability to know what is happening inside of him/her. Furthermore your only response is to render a judgment that they are lacking in faith and then attempt to force the OP to believe as you do.

I don't force anything on anyone. Both he and you are free to choose your own path. All I do is speak the truth and invite people to come to Christ.

Though I do find it amusing that you are trying to judge me while accusing me of judging.

As you well know I am not a Christian and therefore not beholden to your dogma. That you feel yourself "judged" by me indicates a guilty conscience on your part. Perhaps you should meditate and reread your kneejerk responses to the OP and see if you can figure out why you came across as being judgmental. Consider it to be a learning experience.

Peace
DT

 

[Avatar4321]

[
As you well know I am not a Christian and therefore not beholden to your dogma. That you feel yourself "judged" by me indicates a guilty conscience on your part. Perhaps you should meditate and reread your kneejerk responses to the OP and see if you can figure out why you came across as being judgmental. Consider it to be a learning experience.

Peace
DT

In order to have a guilty conscience about judging, i would have to think it's something that is bad. I've clearly cited scriptures where Christ commands us to judge righteously. That might not be of much interest to you, since as you pointed out, you aren't Christian.

But as my faith teaches me that God will show us how to judge and use our mind and gifts righteously, and you are the one complaining about judging, it seems that it's your dogma that it's wrong for Christians to judge at all. Because the Bible teaches the exactly the opposite.

Now if you don't have a problem judging people at all, and I can clearly tell you where Christ has commanded us to judge righteously, why exactly do you think I should be held to a standard neither of us holds for ourselves, but that you want me alone to abide?

If you want me to abide by the standards you hold, then live those standards yourself and perhaps your example could persuade me that your standard is correct.

As for learning something, I try to learn something from every conversation I'm in. I've learned quite a bit from you right now. Not exactly what you were trying to teach me, but I learned quite a bit nonetheless.

 

[theword]

For reasons I will not get into, I have been contemplating this; my final thoughts. Please tell me what you think, and do not hold back.

"If God did not exist, everything would be permitted.", says Ivan Karamazov in his existentialist works. Pascal creates a wager in which everyone should behave as though there is a God to limit their finite losses in the afterlife.
Although I am supremely interested by both concepts, I agree with neither. Suposing that Karamazov is right, what truly is not permitted? Of all of the things you have wished to do, what are among those you simply could not?
Did these short comings have anything to do with God? I think not, more appropriately, they were consumed by the left-right paradigm of right and wrong, between which, should be chosen and what could be chosen.
In the end, who knows what was more beneficial? It all comes down to whom experienced what, and what they were taught of these experiences. Pascal, another Christian apologist, claims we should live as though God exists whether or not He doesn't.
Is this not anything more than simply putting our cards in with God? Would he be impressed more by the safety net of living as though He exists, or by believing He does not and acting righteously still yet?

Our existence on Earth is meaningful, none can argue. What does it really mean, though? If I myself were not alive, how would that have effected my family? What affect would that have on my sister? I would argue that she would be better off.
She expects much from others, likely due to my constant abuse and subsequent regret of such abuses. How much more stable a person would she be today without my own insecurity? Such a question, neither Pascal nor Karamazov ever pondered. So long
as life goes on, so too does the complexity of our morality and philosophical questioning. One must always be able to ask themselves, without myself how much worse would those I love be? In my case I ask these same questions and see nothing
beneficial in my life. I see no reason for my living, nor my advice should continue on to another generation. I may have few wisdoms to pass on, but none of which are so complicated they could not be easily discerned on their own. I am
essentially worthless.

I see Pascal as little more than a cop out; He lives as though God exists because he is afraid of how the Christian God may react to his doubt. Even a man as wise as Pascal see's the problem in a Christian God, he merely lacks the balls to
call such a God out as He is. Karamazov believes without God, there are no morals, and as such there is no morality. Both take an extreme view of life, and both have influenced life greatly in a harmful direction respectively to one another.
Neither character in the philosophy of Man could begin to comprehend the one and true God. For He is one who desires not our admiration and love, He can live without. He does not demand our obedience, for He gave us free choice. Mere, all He
expects is that we behave as though we are all born good people within His will. He expects us all to be good by Him, and not by our Bible's or Qu'rans. For our dissent we do not suffer, for our wagers we do not benefit. It is only the truest
of us who belong. At one point, we all have a stroke of counsciousness, and in this epiphany we all see Christ, but we do not all see the same Christ. Christ is different for each one of us, because Christ exists within us all. Christ is
supremely different, as are we all, because there is no "One and True God" whom can represent all of mankind. We are all God, and only those of us who can see that and co-exist accordingly have any hope of happiness in this life or any other.

I am not a Christian. I am not a religious person. I am a spiritual man who see's things for what they are. I don't need an apocalypse to make me behave, I don't need an end-times to force me to participate. I don't need a leader to follow,
and I don't need the truth to see what is right. Christ is within me, as He is within you all. Christ is all that is righteous, in the midst of a brand of Christianity which would see you land in Hell, ever judging and hating your brothers.
Modern religion is perverted in its meanings and ways, and it will never lead you to salvation. The only one who can save you is yourself, through behaving in such a way that the one and true God would expect. Nothing perfect could expect
perfection, and He does not expect repentence. All you must do is treat one another as though you were true bretheren. You must not agree, you must not repent, you only must be respectful. You only must refrain from action when others would
strike to kill. He does not expect perfection from us, nor apologies for failing to meet the expectations which were said to be expected from Him. All that he expects from us is to be accepting and tolerant of all, even our own enemies. Was it not
Him whom tought us to turn the other cheek to be smited? Was it not him whom taught us to love our enemies despite our differences. It is here where we should start, and not through the Hebrew teachings which tell us what is and is not an
abomination in the name of God.

I am not a religious man, but there is something in which I have failed to realize through this time in my life. It has little to do with Christianity and contemporary, modern religion... for in experience they all follow suit. The core of
the issue is what is moral, what is good. There are facts in this world which can lead you unto Him. There are also facts in this world which can lead you astray. None of those following are enough in suit to lead you down such a path,
but the multitude of which can lead you to believe something ascertain in which is nothing close to reality certainly can lead you astray. Selflessness does not equal righteousness, and as such righteousness does not equal selflesssness. There can never be any one person who
is right, never any one person who is wrong. Merely, we can all be Christ. We are each Him in His own image, independent of what those whom came before us held a belief. For as Pascal believes man should believe in Him despite that he may
be wrong, I believe man should believe in Him because he is wrong. Our modern interpretations do not describe God. He is neither Christian, nor Hebrew, nor Muslim. He simply is as he is, and the rest is for Us to determine. We are each God, because
God is what is greatest in each of us. God is not perfect without us, for we are his greatest creation, and without us even His life would have no meaning. We can all be lead away from what we believe is God, but how many of us can be led to believe
what we know IS God? Should he be something as simple as nature itself, he is above us all, and His judgement we must all succomb. Should we all behave as though we will be judged? No, but should we all behave as though we have something better to
live for? Absolutely yes.

God's laws say, "Thou shalt not worship any other gods before me".

Since Christians and all other religious people need church buildings and other objects made with human hands besides deities like angels to worship their gods with, are they evil for doing so or are they disobedient to God's commandments?

 

[Derideo_Te]

[
As you well know I am not a Christian and therefore not beholden to your dogma. That you feel yourself "judged" by me indicates a guilty conscience on your part. Perhaps you should meditate and reread your kneejerk responses to the OP and see if you can figure out why you came across as being judgmental. Consider it to be a learning experience.

Peace
DT

In order to have a guilty conscience about judging, i would have to think it's something that is bad. I've clearly cited scriptures where Christ commands us to judge righteously. That might not be of much interest to you, since as you pointed out, you aren't Christian.

But as my faith teaches me that God will show us how to judge and use our mind and gifts righteously, and you are the one complaining about judging, it seems that it's your dogma that it's wrong for Christians to judge at all. Because the Bible teaches the exactly the opposite.

Now if you don't have a problem judging people at all, and I can clearly tell you where Christ has commanded us to judge righteously, why exactly do you think I should be held to a standard neither of us holds for ourselves, but that you want me alone to abide?

If you want me to abide by the standards you hold, then live those standards yourself and perhaps your example could persuade me that your standard is correct.

As for learning something, I try to learn something from every conversation I'm in. I've learned quite a bit from you right now. Not exactly what you were trying to teach me, but I learned quite a bit nonetheless.

Amusing how you deflect your own shortcomings onto others. Here is your original condemnation of the OP;

So much for being a spiritual man who sees things as they are.

You set yourself up as lord high judge, jury and executioner of the OP's spirituality.

Now having been taken to task you also lack the humility to acknowledge that you had no qualifications to make that false judgement.

 

[Avatar4321]

[
As you well know I am not a Christian and therefore not beholden to your dogma. That you feel yourself "judged" by me indicates a guilty conscience on your part. Perhaps you should meditate and reread your kneejerk responses to the OP and see if you can figure out why you came across as being judgmental. Consider it to be a learning experience.

Peace
DT

In order to have a guilty conscience about judging, i would have to think it's something that is bad. I've clearly cited scriptures where Christ commands us to judge righteously. That might not be of much interest to you, since as you pointed out, you aren't Christian.

But as my faith teaches me that God will show us how to judge and use our mind and gifts righteously, and you are the one complaining about judging, it seems that it's your dogma that it's wrong for Christians to judge at all. Because the Bible teaches the exactly the opposite.

Now if you don't have a problem judging people at all, and I can clearly tell you where Christ has commanded us to judge righteously, why exactly do you think I should be held to a standard neither of us holds for ourselves, but that you want me alone to abide?

If you want me to abide by the standards you hold, then live those standards yourself and perhaps your example could persuade me that your standard is correct.

As for learning something, I try to learn something from every conversation I'm in. I've learned quite a bit from you right now. Not exactly what you were trying to teach me, but I learned quite a bit nonetheless.

Amusing how you deflect your own shortcomings onto others. Here is your original condemnation of the OP;

So much for being a spiritual man who sees things as they are.

You set yourself up as lord high judge, jury and executioner of the OP's spirituality.

Now having been taken to task you also lack the humility to acknowledge that you had no qualifications to make that false judgement.

Except I haven't judged his spirituality at all. I've judged his claim to see things as they are.

I am not some high judge. Never pretended to be. As I've pointed out my ability to judge comes from the gift the Lord has given me of a mind. In fact, He has given you the same ability. You can judge and discern good and evil and the truth. It's an endowment He has given to all His children to some degree. And He has commanded we use that judgment righteously.

There is nothing false about what I said. He is not seeing things as they are. Because things are very different than what he proclaims them to be. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone see things incorrectly to some degree.

So please, stop pretending to be outraged about something I didn't do, that doesn't live up to a standard neither you nor believe and which you don't live yourself. That's just hypocritical.

Whoops, I guess Im going to be lectured for judging you to be hypocritical now. Maybe Ill apologize when you get over yourself.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear UK: Minus all the hubbub about what "conditions" do religions impose, the point is to agree on the MEANING.

If we agree that to believe in God is to believe that there is inherent GOODNESS or supreme GOODWILL in the laws of nature and the universe, that is the point. There is order and purpose in life, and we achieve this by aligning in harmony and agreement with such truth and wisdom in LIFE.

If we agree that Jesus means JUSTICE -- not the retributive type that keeps humanity trapped in the vicious cycle of sin/karma. But RESTORATIVE JUSTICE

The point of believing in the sacrifice and redemption in Christ is to believe that the choice of FORGIVENESS redeems and restores relationships and humanity, individually and collectively.

So the more we FORGIVE, then we will come to understand these other truths, and not be confused by the different laws or religions used to describe universal meanings in life.

Love of Truth sets us free from fear and division by selfishness
Love of Justice corrects wrongs/conflicts and restores human relations under universal law
Love of Humanity brings healing so we can seek and agree on truth and cooperate as one

All religions/laws teach that we need to restore the balance between mind/body/spirit, individual human/human relations/collective humanity, or physical/psychological/spiritual. Human nature is a reflection of the universe, so as we make peace, we harmonize globally

 

[Derideo_Te]

In order to have a guilty conscience about judging, i would have to think it's something that is bad. I've clearly cited scriptures where Christ commands us to judge righteously. That might not be of much interest to you, since as you pointed out, you aren't Christian.

But as my faith teaches me that God will show us how to judge and use our mind and gifts righteously, and you are the one complaining about judging, it seems that it's your dogma that it's wrong for Christians to judge at all. Because the Bible teaches the exactly the opposite.

Now if you don't have a problem judging people at all, and I can clearly tell you where Christ has commanded us to judge righteously, why exactly do you think I should be held to a standard neither of us holds for ourselves, but that you want me alone to abide?

If you want me to abide by the standards you hold, then live those standards yourself and perhaps your example could persuade me that your standard is correct.

As for learning something, I try to learn something from every conversation I'm in. I've learned quite a bit from you right now. Not exactly what you were trying to teach me, but I learned quite a bit nonetheless.

Amusing how you deflect your own shortcomings onto others. Here is your original condemnation of the OP;

So much for being a spiritual man who sees things as they are.

You set yourself up as lord high judge, jury and executioner of the OP's spirituality.

Now having been taken to task you also lack the humility to acknowledge that you had no qualifications to make that false judgement.

Except I haven't judged his spirituality at all. I've judged his claim to see things as they are.

I am not some high judge. Never pretended to be. As I've pointed out my ability to judge comes from the gift the Lord has given me of a mind. In fact, He has given you the same ability. You can judge and discern good and evil and the truth. It's an endowment He has given to all His children to some degree. And He has commanded we use that judgment righteously.

There is nothing false about what I said. He is not seeing things as they are. Because things are very different than what he proclaims them to be. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Everyone see things incorrectly to some degree.

So please, stop pretending to be outraged about something I didn't do, that doesn't live up to a standard neither you nor believe and which you don't live yourself. That's just hypocritical.

Whoops, I guess Im going to be lectured for judging you to be hypocritical now. Maybe Ill apologize when you get over yourself.

Your own words call you a liar!

So much for being a spiritual man who sees things as they are.

 

[uhkilleez]

You are right about Pascal and Karamazov, Uhkilleez. You recognize the spirituality within yourself as do I, even though I am an atheist. We humans have a spiritual aspect to ourselves and I suspect that this is true for all mammals. Your belief in God and Jesus is something for you to resolve within yourself and I am not trying to alter your beliefs because that would be unethical. Instead I am going to share with you my spiritual perspective in the hope that it may shed a little light for you.

I was raised in a Christian home and attended Sunday School where I won prizes for memorizing bible verses. I went on to teach it to children in poor inner city communities. But there came a point in my life when I had to choose who I am and what I want to become. So I made a pact with God. In exchange for not bothering him with my prayers asking him for things that he had no intention of granting I would not waste my time claiming to be a Christian and singing his praises. I like to think that we both got something out of the deal. I became 100% responsible for my life and everything, good or bad, was up to me to deal with.

So how did I resolve the spiritual aspect of my life if I no longer worshiped any God? I found myself meditating while I out hiking, climbing, sailing and diving. The contact with nature became the place where my spirituality was fulfilled. The spiritual connection I feel is stronger than anything I ever felt in a place of worship. I can see a sunrise or a chipmunk or even a dead tree and sense the spirituality that is there. This might sound weird to those who don't know what I am speaking about but there is no "judgement", there is no "father" or even a "guide". It is just a sense of peace and serenity. That is the core of who I am and I really don't care what happens after I am dead. I am just thankful for being able to experience this while I am alive.

So that is my personal philosophy. I won't defend it because I don't need to and I won't impose it on others because I don't need others to "believe" in anything because I don't have any dogma that I adhere to. I simply live my life by the Golden Rule and always remain true to myself. The rest just takes care of itself.

Peace
DT

I actually don't believe in Jesus, but I believe that his story is correct. I believe that the stories of Jesus, of Horus, of Krishna, and the multitude of others are here to make us see the truth of God and spirituality which lies within ourselves. I had an epiphany last week when I totaled my car, and it's made me realize that the exact things which led me to believe everything was wrong are actually the same things which should have shown me there is truth to every religion. No one religion is meant to be taken literally, because God is within us and we tap into His will through ourselves. It was upon this realization, and the contemplation of things I may be forced to do in future, that I have reflected on my life and actions to find that I have not been the best person I could have been. I have been arrogant and hateful when I should have been humble and tolerant.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You are right about Pascal and Karamazov, Uhkilleez. You recognize the spirituality within yourself as do I, even though I am an atheist. We humans have a spiritual aspect to ourselves and I suspect that this is true for all mammals. Your belief in God and Jesus is something for you to resolve within yourself and I am not trying to alter your beliefs because that would be unethical. Instead I am going to share with you my spiritual perspective in the hope that it may shed a little light for you.

I was raised in a Christian home and attended Sunday School where I won prizes for memorizing bible verses. I went on to teach it to children in poor inner city communities. But there came a point in my life when I had to choose who I am and what I want to become. So I made a pact with God. In exchange for not bothering him with my prayers asking him for things that he had no intention of granting I would not waste my time claiming to be a Christian and singing his praises. I like to think that we both got something out of the deal. I became 100% responsible for my life and everything, good or bad, was up to me to deal with.

So how did I resolve the spiritual aspect of my life if I no longer worshiped any God? I found myself meditating while I out hiking, climbing, sailing and diving. The contact with nature became the place where my spirituality was fulfilled. The spiritual connection I feel is stronger than anything I ever felt in a place of worship. I can see a sunrise or a chipmunk or even a dead tree and sense the spirituality that is there. This might sound weird to those who don't know what I am speaking about but there is no "judgement", there is no "father" or even a "guide". It is just a sense of peace and serenity. That is the core of who I am and I really don't care what happens after I am dead. I am just thankful for being able to experience this while I am alive.

So that is my personal philosophy. I won't defend it because I don't need to and I won't impose it on others because I don't need others to "believe" in anything because I don't have any dogma that I adhere to. I simply live my life by the Golden Rule and always remain true to myself. The rest just takes care of itself.

Peace
DT

I actually don't believe in Jesus, but I believe that his story is correct. I believe that the stories of Jesus, of Horus, of Krishna, and the multitude of others are here to make us see the truth of God and spirituality which lies within ourselves. I had an epiphany last week when I totaled my car, and it's made me realize that the exact things which led me to believe everything was wrong are actually the same things which should have shown me there is truth to every religion. No one religion is meant to be taken literally, because God is within us and we tap into His will through ourselves. It was upon this realization, and the contemplation of things I may be forced to do in future, that I have reflected on my life and actions to find that I have not been the best person I could have been. I have been arrogant and hateful when I should have been humble and tolerant.

Sounds to me as though you are on the right path for yourself. Glad that you escaped from the wreckage too.

 

[uhkilleez]

I have no use for your ten commandments and Earthly religions, they mean nothing to me. I am seeking the opinion of philosophical believers, and my intent is not to discuss nor demean the beliefs therein. I would appreciate it if you left a personal review over what I have said as opposed to a mere citation of your Bible in which I have refuted throughout my stay at this board. If there is one thing in life I am absolutely certain of, it is that the Christian religion does not bear truth. That does not mean it is not based on a spiritual truth.

So much for being a spiritual man who sees things as they are.

You can deny it all you want. But Jesus is the Christ. The Holy Spirit has told me that. He is the Son of God and the Savior of the world. And that I am absolutely certain of because of the witness of the Holy Spirit. I don't claim to know all things. God hasn't given me that yet. But He has made me a witness of Jesus Christ. And who am I to deny God?

I don't care if you want to think you've refuted everything I've said. You haven't. But you are free to believe that all you want. But I know that the Lord has revealed the truth about Christ to me. And I know that God knows this. I dare not deny it, or I would condemn myself. And I know others have recieved their own witness as well.

You will never know God or His doctrines until you humble yourself before Him. Seek Him sincerely and you will find Him. Seek the truth, not just to know it, but to live accord to it, and you will find it. But if you continue to presume you know about God while proclaiming no one can, you will only delude yourself.

While I would still consider myself a spiritual man who see's things as they are, I am coming to the realization we all feel that way about ourselves no matter our beliefs. I have not refuted all that you said, merely I brought forth complications in the Bible which can only be expected due to its craft by man, and having come from an imperfect source it too is as such. God, the Christ, the Krishna, the Horus... He is within us all, we see His will for us through the lens of our life when we are able to tap into that part of us He is in. We can only come to know God when we look deep within ourselves, and when we do we find the little bit of good in everything, the truth in all religion. It is not necessarily bad to follow any one religion, and deciding to follow the Bible does not make you amoral or any less deserving of respect. You are not a bad, or illogical person for believing, for His word you are compelled to, you find within yourself. When you see it in the Bible, and you consider it within yourself, you know whether or not it is what He wants, because He is in you.

I haven't been the nicest guy in the world on here, nor to you. That is something in which I am apologetic for. I have learned to respect your path to God in finding Him on my own.

 

[hangover]

Someone who can read. The Lord gives all men the ability to judge. And He shows how to do so righteously.

You really need to quit trying to write your own bible. Jesus said, "Judge NOT!" You condemn yourself with ignorance. GOD IS THE JUDGE, NOT YOU.

Your citing one of the most out of context scriptures in the Bible. God doesn't say judge not. In fact, He commands us to judge righteously. "Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:24).

The scripture your citing says we will be judged with the judgment we use. Also clearly implying that we are to make judgments.

God has given us a mind to evaluate and look at things. He has also given us the Spirit to discern truth.

He has called men and women to be judges throughout the history of the Bible. In fact, there is an entire book of the Bible about some of those Judges called Judges. If we were to take your interpretation of the scriptures, God would be incredibly inconsistant commanding us not to judge and then calling judges to judge the people.

The judgment we are not support to make is the final judgment. We are not appointed in this life to judge who gets what rewards/punishments in the next life. Specifically because our lives aren't over. We can't say so and so will go to hell because there is a chance that so and so will recognize the error of his/her ways, repent of their sins and recieve Christ.

And even then the Lord will call some of His disciples to participate in the Final judgment. But that will be then and not something we are to worry about in this life.

On a personal note, I've found that those who screem the loudest about others judging are usually the ones who are doing things they sure as heck don't want to be judged for. If that's the case, I invite you to come to Christ and fix the things in your life that you are concerned about.

Your "judgement" has been ignorant many times, just with the judgements you have passed on me and others on these threads. That makes your Judgement SELF RIGHTEOUS, not "righteous", like those that judged Jesus for healing on the Sabbath.
If Jesus said, "Judge NOT", it's better for you if you don't try to look for justification to do it.
It's like the difference between what Jesus said, "If someone is hungry, feed them", and what Paul said, "If a man doesn't work, don't feed him." Jesus didn't say what Paul said. The difference is Jesus was compassionate, Paul was not.
In your self righteous judgement, you insinuate that I'm screaming the loudest. Trying to justify yourself like that is pitiful. Your really need to learn the lesson of your own quote.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

You are right about Pascal and Karamazov, Uhkilleez. You recognize the spirituality within yourself as do I, even though I am an atheist. We humans have a spiritual aspect to ourselves and I suspect that this is true for all mammals. Your belief in God and Jesus is something for you to resolve within yourself and I am not trying to alter your beliefs because that would be unethical. Instead I am going to share with you my spiritual perspective in the hope that it may shed a little light for you.

I was raised in a Christian home and attended Sunday School where I won prizes for memorizing bible verses. I went on to teach it to children in poor inner city communities. But there came a point in my life when I had to choose who I am and what I want to become. So I made a pact with God. In exchange for not bothering him with my prayers asking him for things that he had no intention of granting I would not waste my time claiming to be a Christian and singing his praises. I like to think that we both got something out of the deal. I became 100% responsible for my life and everything, good or bad, was up to me to deal with.

So how did I resolve the spiritual aspect of my life if I no longer worshiped any God? I found myself meditating while I out hiking, climbing, sailing and diving. The contact with nature became the place where my spirituality was fulfilled. The spiritual connection I feel is stronger than anything I ever felt in a place of worship. I can see a sunrise or a chipmunk or even a dead tree and sense the spirituality that is there. This might sound weird to those who don't know what I am speaking about but there is no "judgement", there is no "father" or even a "guide". It is just a sense of peace and serenity. That is the core of who I am and I really don't care what happens after I am dead. I am just thankful for being able to experience this while I am alive.

So that is my personal philosophy. I won't defend it because I don't need to and I won't impose it on others because I don't need others to "believe" in anything because I don't have any dogma that I adhere to. I simply live my life by the Golden Rule and always remain true to myself. The rest just takes care of itself.

Peace
DT

I actually don't believe in Jesus, but I believe that his story is correct. I believe that the stories of Jesus, of Horus, of Krishna, and the multitude of others are here to make us see the truth of God and spirituality which lies within ourselves. I had an epiphany last week when I totaled my car, and it's made me realize that the exact things which led me to believe everything was wrong are actually the same things which should have shown me there is truth to every religion. No one religion is meant to be taken literally, because God is within us and we tap into His will through ourselves. It was upon this realization, and the contemplation of things I may be forced to do in future, that I have reflected on my life and actions to find that I have not been the best person I could have been. I have been arrogant and hateful when I should have been humble and tolerant.

Sounds to me as though you are on the right path for yourself. Glad that you escaped from the wreckage too.

Derideo, after getting to know Uhkilleez a little better and talking to him I am amazed at his spirituality and his humility and his graciousness - even apologising to people here when I do not believe he needed to do it. But his humility is quite beautiful and I am impressed by his ability to be so honest and real because it is something I rarely see in many people who talk about "God".. I like Uhkilleez very much and believe he has some amazing insight on many things. I look forward to reading his posts in the future. - Jeri

 

[theword]

I actually don't believe in Jesus, but I believe that his story is correct. I believe that the stories of Jesus, of Horus, of Krishna, and the multitude of others are here to make us see the truth of God and spirituality which lies within ourselves. I had an epiphany last week when I totaled my car, and it's made me realize that the exact things which led me to believe everything was wrong are actually the same things which should have shown me there is truth to every religion. No one religion is meant to be taken literally, because God is within us and we tap into His will through ourselves. It was upon this realization, and the contemplation of things I may be forced to do in future, that I have reflected on my life and actions to find that I have not been the best person I could have been. I have been arrogant and hateful when I should have been humble and tolerant.

Sounds to me as though you are on the right path for yourself. Glad that you escaped from the wreckage too.

Derideo, after getting to know Uhkilleez a little better and talking to him I am amazed at his spirituality and his humility and his graciousness - even apologising to people here when I do not believe he needed to do it. But his humility is quite beautiful and I am impressed by his ability to be so honest and real because it is something I rarely see in many people who talk about "God".. I like Uhkilleez very much and believe he has some amazing insight on many things. I look forward to reading his posts in the future. - Jeri

It's hard to challenge Me, your Creator, with your false gods, isn't it Jeremiah?

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.
15: They are worthless, a work of delusion; at the time of their punishment they shall perish.
16: Not like these is he who is the portion of Jacob, for he is the one who formed all things, and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance; the LORD of hosts is his name.

Acts 17: 24-31

24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.
26: And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,
27: that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
28: for ..In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, ..For we are indeed his offspring.'
29: Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man.

You either know Me or you don't. Can you listen to Me in the testimonies of my last saint?

1 John 4:
6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

 

[uhkilleez]

Sounds to me as though you are on the right path for yourself. Glad that you escaped from the wreckage too.

Derideo, after getting to know Uhkilleez a little better and talking to him I am amazed at his spirituality and his humility and his graciousness - even apologising to people here when I do not believe he needed to do it. But his humility is quite beautiful and I am impressed by his ability to be so honest and real because it is something I rarely see in many people who talk about "God".. I like Uhkilleez very much and believe he has some amazing insight on many things. I look forward to reading his posts in the future. - Jeri

It's hard to challenge Me, your Creator, with your false gods, isn't it Jeremiah?

Jeremiah 10
10: But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God and the everlasting King. At his wrath the earth quakes, and the nations cannot endure his indignation.
11: Thus shall you say to them: "The gods who did not make the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."
12: It is he who made the earth by his power, who established the world by his wisdom, and by his understanding stretched out the heavens.
13: When he utters his voice there is a tumult of waters in the heavens, and he makes the mist rise from the ends of the earth. He makes lightnings for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.
14: Every man is stupid and without knowledge; every goldsmith is put to shame by his idols; for his images are false, and there is no breath in them.
15: They are worthless, a work of delusion; at the time of their punishment they shall perish.
16: Not like these is he who is the portion of Jacob, for he is the one who formed all things, and Israel is the tribe of his inheritance; the LORD of hosts is his name.

Acts 17: 24-31

24: The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man,
25: nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything.
26: And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation,
27: that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
28: for ..In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, ..For we are indeed his offspring.'
29: Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man.

You either know Me or you don't. Can you listen to Me in the testimonies of my last saint?

1 John 4:
6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

You are not Him, but He is within you. He is in each one of us, some of us find this part of ourselves and most others are unconscious of it throughout their lives. Some choose to ignore it, others are conditioned to by way of abuse. To be moral and empathetic, to feel what is true, to see the world through His rose colored shades is not something specific to any particular religion. All religions bear some part of truth, and some part of the nature of man. Christianity is no exception, but the truth is hidden deep in parable. It is only through deep reflection of religion as well as self that one can begin to find Him within themselves. Sainthood is apocryphal, for there is no perfection in the nature of self-consciousness.