The gun industry is the most consumer-friendly industry in america.

[2aguy]

moot point , some people do good work with their gun while others don't . Its supposed to be FREE country , do as you like !!

And some people claim everyone is safer with a gun. That would be wrong.

Who claimed that?

 

[Brain357]

Brain.....is finally saw what is hanging you up......you don't get it......

I always say "law abiding citizens use guns 1.6 million times a year, on average, to stop violent criminal attack and save lives......"

Pretty much every time I post the 1.6 million number......

You just see a violent criminal attack in progress...a beating, a stabbing, a rape, a murder......but I actually type....

"stop a violent criminal attack...."

To make that more clear brain....I will start to use "stop, or prevent...." that should cover what I have posted above and help clarify what I am saying...

When you confront a burglar...who may or may not have known you were home at the time of the break in....who might be looking for an opportunity rape to throw in with the burglary......happens all the time......and you are confronting them, or your wife, daughter, grand daughter.....and you show your gun, or draw and point your gun....you have "STOPPED" a violent criminal attack........before it happens

Dittos with the life saving....since you don't know what is going to happen, when you stop/prevent the violent attack from ever happening, you have potentially saved your life or the life of another victim....on top of those cases where an attack in progress was actually stopped.

And another point.....the woman in colorado, who was raped 50 ft. from the campus police station because she had to leave her gun in her car...which she was allowed to carry because she had a concealed carry permit.....but couldn't carry it on campus because it was a "gun free" killing and rape zone for criminals......she was raped...and because she didn't stop the attack with her pistol, either capturing or injuring or killing the rapist.....he went on to rape another woman, and rape and murder a 3rd woman...that we know of....those are the three they caught him for.....

So had she "stopped/prevented" that criminal attack.....a life would have been saved outside of the event.....

So again

Law abiding citizens use guns 1.6 million times a year...on average to stop, or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.........according to all the research into actual defensive use of guns........

There......that's better....

No that's still very deceptive. First the 1.6 is obviously wrong. Second the majority aren't violent crimes only maybe 10%. You can say to defend against crimes, but violent crimes and saving lives is deceptive.

No...1) because I don't say every time a life is saved I say lives are saved and they are....all the time....and yes...I said in the past "to stop violent criminal attack" meaning in progress and before it happens....you didn't get that part and I didn't get that you didn't get it....but from the way I posted above and the examples I have used show that is what I meant....

And finally, the average is 1.6 million times a year that law abiding citizens use guns to stop, or prevent a violent criminal attack and save lives........

And so far...I have 16 actual gun studies and if I use the police foundation study...which might already be in the 16....I average my number from those actual gun studies....you make up your number.....and there are a few gun studies that I don't have access to that support the numbers in the other 16.....

You can say anything you want brain...but actual researchers...experts in their fields of study, in both public and private research institutions, over a 40 year period make up the number I use....with actual studies focused on the self defense use of guns.......

And the surveys have been debunked several times over. Again they newest ones are over 20 years old and crime has come down over 30%. You can't claim they are accurate for now. You can give a year and say maybe this many for that year. But you treat it like it is accurate for now when it is even less accurate now than it was then.

No brain..again...anti gun nuts saying the research is debunked is not disproving the studies....there are over 16 of them and the most recent was done by obama and his CDC in 2013.....you can't get more anti gun than that group and they confirmed the accuracy of the research....they claim that there are somewhere between 500,000 and 3 million defensive gun uses each year.....

And yes....crime is down....as are gun accidents...with more Americans owning and carrying guns for self defense....destroying the meme that more guns create more crime...but the studies stand.....they show that every year over a million Americans (1.6) use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....that has never been debunked....it has been lied about...a lot....but never disproven.......

I don't believe the cdc did any new research, just studied old surveys. If it's 500k you are off by 1.1 million. I won't get into how inaccurate 500k to 3 mil is. Did they mention how many defenses are by criminals. There is really no truth to your claim of 1.6.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

[

And some people claim everyone is safer with a gun. That would be wrong.

i agree. People on welfare should not have a gun.

Most people on welfare probably have more important needs to spend money on.

Like beer, cigarettes and crack.

While those may be popular items, I wouldn't recommend those either.

I'm sure your recommendations will be welcomed.

 

[pismoe]

this is what matters , real life stories of real self defense !! --- Home Alone girl 12 shoots intruder - NY Daily News --- just one successful self defense is good enough for me !!

 

[2aguy]

Brain.....is finally saw what is hanging you up......you don't get it......

I always say "law abiding citizens use guns 1.6 million times a year, on average, to stop violent criminal attack and save lives......"

Pretty much every time I post the 1.6 million number......

You just see a violent criminal attack in progress...a beating, a stabbing, a rape, a murder......but I actually type....

"stop a violent criminal attack...."

To make that more clear brain....I will start to use "stop, or prevent...." that should cover what I have posted above and help clarify what I am saying...

When you confront a burglar...who may or may not have known you were home at the time of the break in....who might be looking for an opportunity rape to throw in with the burglary......happens all the time......and you are confronting them, or your wife, daughter, grand daughter.....and you show your gun, or draw and point your gun....you have "STOPPED" a violent criminal attack........before it happens

Dittos with the life saving....since you don't know what is going to happen, when you stop/prevent the violent attack from ever happening, you have potentially saved your life or the life of another victim....on top of those cases where an attack in progress was actually stopped.

And another point.....the woman in colorado, who was raped 50 ft. from the campus police station because she had to leave her gun in her car...which she was allowed to carry because she had a concealed carry permit.....but couldn't carry it on campus because it was a "gun free" killing and rape zone for criminals......she was raped...and because she didn't stop the attack with her pistol, either capturing or injuring or killing the rapist.....he went on to rape another woman, and rape and murder a 3rd woman...that we know of....those are the three they caught him for.....

So had she "stopped/prevented" that criminal attack.....a life would have been saved outside of the event.....

So again

Law abiding citizens use guns 1.6 million times a year...on average to stop, or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives.........according to all the research into actual defensive use of guns........

There......that's better....

No that's still very deceptive. First the 1.6 is obviously wrong. Second the majority aren't violent crimes only maybe 10%. You can say to defend against crimes, but violent crimes and saving lives is deceptive.

No...1) because I don't say every time a life is saved I say lives are saved and they are....all the time....and yes...I said in the past "to stop violent criminal attack" meaning in progress and before it happens....you didn't get that part and I didn't get that you didn't get it....but from the way I posted above and the examples I have used show that is what I meant....

And finally, the average is 1.6 million times a year that law abiding citizens use guns to stop, or prevent a violent criminal attack and save lives........

And so far...I have 16 actual gun studies and if I use the police foundation study...which might already be in the 16....I average my number from those actual gun studies....you make up your number.....and there are a few gun studies that I don't have access to that support the numbers in the other 16.....

You can say anything you want brain...but actual researchers...experts in their fields of study, in both public and private research institutions, over a 40 year period make up the number I use....with actual studies focused on the self defense use of guns.......

And the surveys have been debunked several times over. Again they newest ones are over 20 years old and crime has come down over 30%. You can't claim they are accurate for now. You can give a year and say maybe this many for that year. But you treat it like it is accurate for now when it is even less accurate now than it was then.

No brain..again...anti gun nuts saying the research is debunked is not disproving the studies....there are over 16 of them and the most recent was done by obama and his CDC in 2013.....you can't get more anti gun than that group and they confirmed the accuracy of the research....they claim that there are somewhere between 500,000 and 3 million defensive gun uses each year.....

And yes....crime is down....as are gun accidents...with more Americans owning and carrying guns for self defense....destroying the meme that more guns create more crime...but the studies stand.....they show that every year over a million Americans (1.6) use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....that has never been debunked....it has been lied about...a lot....but never disproven.......

I don't believe the cdc did any new research, just studied old surveys. If it's 500k you are off by 1.1 million. I won't get into how inaccurate 500k to 3 mil is. Did they mention how many defenses are by criminals. There is really no truth to your claim of 1.6.

Brain, they studied all the research....including the most recent research and they tried to find the lowest numbers possible.....Kleck's study is only one of 18 or 19 studies on the subject....and the lowest obama's cdc could fudge the numbers was 500,000.......and they had to admit the number could be as high as 3 million.....

Kleck's study is the most accurate of all of them which is why they target him specifically even though his is one of 18 or 19 studies......anyone interested can see his methods and results....and he came up with 2.5 million defensive gun uses....

1.6 is the average of the 16 studies done over 40 years.....and recently vetted by obama's CDC in 2013........and no, the people in the study were not criminals, they were law abiding citizens who carried guns, and possibly did so without proper permits.......don't be dishonest....

 

[Brain357]

No that's still very deceptive. First the 1.6 is obviously wrong. Second the majority aren't violent crimes only maybe 10%. You can say to defend against crimes, but violent crimes and saving lives is deceptive.

No...1) because I don't say every time a life is saved I say lives are saved and they are....all the time....and yes...I said in the past "to stop violent criminal attack" meaning in progress and before it happens....you didn't get that part and I didn't get that you didn't get it....but from the way I posted above and the examples I have used show that is what I meant....

And finally, the average is 1.6 million times a year that law abiding citizens use guns to stop, or prevent a violent criminal attack and save lives........

And so far...I have 16 actual gun studies and if I use the police foundation study...which might already be in the 16....I average my number from those actual gun studies....you make up your number.....and there are a few gun studies that I don't have access to that support the numbers in the other 16.....

You can say anything you want brain...but actual researchers...experts in their fields of study, in both public and private research institutions, over a 40 year period make up the number I use....with actual studies focused on the self defense use of guns.......

And the surveys have been debunked several times over. Again they newest ones are over 20 years old and crime has come down over 30%. You can't claim they are accurate for now. You can give a year and say maybe this many for that year. But you treat it like it is accurate for now when it is even less accurate now than it was then.

No brain..again...anti gun nuts saying the research is debunked is not disproving the studies....there are over 16 of them and the most recent was done by obama and his CDC in 2013.....you can't get more anti gun than that group and they confirmed the accuracy of the research....they claim that there are somewhere between 500,000 and 3 million defensive gun uses each year.....

And yes....crime is down....as are gun accidents...with more Americans owning and carrying guns for self defense....destroying the meme that more guns create more crime...but the studies stand.....they show that every year over a million Americans (1.6) use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....that has never been debunked....it has been lied about...a lot....but never disproven.......

I don't believe the cdc did any new research, just studied old surveys. If it's 500k you are off by 1.1 million. I won't get into how inaccurate 500k to 3 mil is. Did they mention how many defenses are by criminals. There is really no truth to your claim of 1.6.

Brain, they studied all the research....including the most recent research and they tried to find the lowest numbers possible.....Kleck's study is only one of 18 or 19 studies on the subject....and the lowest obama's cdc could fudge the numbers was 500,000.......and they had to admit the number could be as high as 3 million.....

Kleck's study is the most accurate of all of them which is why they target him specifically even though his is one of 18 or 19 studies......anyone interested can see his methods and results....and he came up with 2.5 million defensive gun uses....

1.6 is the average of the 16 studies done over 40 years.....and recently vetted by obama's CDC in 2013........and no, the people in the study were not criminals, they were law abiding citizens who carried guns, and possibly did so without proper permits.......don't be dishonest....

And if the 800k surveys are right you are off by 100%. You can't average then and pretend that is accurate.

 

[August West]

So in my lifetime 90 million times a gun was used in self defense or whatever. How come I don`t know of one single person who has used a gun in this manner. Using an anecdote about a 12 year old shooting an intruder is a pretty lame attempt to make your case.

 

[pismoe]

not trying to make a case , the case is a factual event , really happened and one successful case is good enough for me . Everyone that wants to be armed is able to be armed in the USA and its a good thing that the 12 year old girl was armed and did good work with her gun August !!

 

[pismoe]

and that's just my argument August , I just go to it because its easy to find but there are lots more just like it in America. I just don't try to justify or explain my RIGHTS !!

 

[Brain357]

So in my lifetime 90 million times a gun was used in self defense or whatever. How come I don`t know of one single person who has used a gun in this manner. Using an anecdote about a 12 year old shooting an intruder is a pretty lame attempt to make your case.

Yes the odds would seems against it. I have not, nor do I know anyone who has. Makes one really question the accuracy of the surveys... Even most the nuts on here say they haven't.

 

[August West]

and that's just my argument August , I just go to it because its easy to find but there are lots more just like it in America. I just don't try to justify or explain my RIGHTS !!

Understood pismoe. Shooters have rights but not the second graders leaving school in body bags or the 80 people who were shot watching a movie. What about their unalienable right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness as stated in the Declaration of Independence? There`s more to our form of govt. than the second amendment regardless of what the gun/criminal lobby tells their easily played membership.

 

[pismoe]

criminals shouldn't ever be allowed to shoot 2nd graders August , that why armed teachers and armed hall monitors should be employed same as is done in Israel [perhaps] . Schools should not be GUN FREE zones either !! Go ahead , pursue your Rights while I pursue and preserve my Rights !!

 

[Brain357]

criminals shouldn't ever be allowed to shoot 2nd graders August , that why armed teachers and armed hall monitors should be employed same as is done in Israel [perhaps] . Schools should not be GUN FREE zones either !! Go ahead , pursue your Rights while I pursue and preserve my Rights !!

So you would welcome in accidental shootings? There are far more people killed in accidental shootings then in those mass shootings.

 

[pismoe]

accidental shootings in a newly armed USA school zone hasn't happened until , well until they happen Brian . I think that your speculation on accidental shooting pales when compared to actual school shootings in GUN FREE ZONES !!

 

[Brain357]

accidental shootings in a newly armed USA school zone hasn't happened until , well until they happen Brian . I think that your speculation on accidental shooting pales when compared to actual school shootings in GUN FREE ZONES !!

Pales? There are 17,000 accidental shootings each year. I think it is a valid concern. While there are very few armed teachers now, it has still happened.
Utah teacher accidentally shoots herself in leg at elementary school - LA Times

 

[pismoe]

gotta wait for armed school zone shootings to happen before you can count them Brian . Course we have the actual numbers of dead in the RARE school shooting that happen in GUN FREE school zones . I'd just let the teachers arm if they like , plus armed school hall monitors , maybe secure entry to schools . Hasn't been a big school shooting or bombing in Israel for a long time if I recall correctly .

 

[pismoe]

big deal , she shot herself in the leg , no one died . Cops on the street and in the school room do the same thing every once in awhile . Accidents happen Brian !!

 

[pismoe]

yep , even the 'highly' trained police have accidents Brian !! --- dea agent shoot self in foot in school room on youtube - Bing Videos ---

 

[Brain357]

big deal , she shot herself in the leg , no one died . Cops on the street and in the school room do the same thing every once in awhile . Accidents happen Brian !!

Yes luckily she only shot herself. What if it was a student?

 

[Brain357]

yep , even the 'highly' trained police have accidents Brian !! --- dea agent shoot self in foot in school room on youtube - Bing Videos ---

Yes so is it wise to open up schools to accidents? As your link shows it can happen to the most trained. 17,000 a year.