The Homosexual Dilemma

[GreenBean]

Redfish is babbling.

Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined.

Show evidence that is IS!

Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such, then the problem is relative, and the far social con right has clearly shown they have no objective argument for denying marriage equality.

When their puffed up pretend intelligentsia pops up out of the box and spew their nonsense, it is time to pass coffee and donuts and enjoy the burlesque.

REDFISH: Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined

JAKEMALARKEY: It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such ....

The human genome is complete and the Human Genome Project is over .... Most of the major science journals reported on the progress in the field of genetics, .... The one piece of information that never materialized from the Human Genome Project was the identification of the so-called gay gene. There is none, Homosexuality is not truly a genetic issue, but as Freud and Socarides theorized - it's a Mental disorder.

Science vs. the Gay Gene

Pathology of Homosexuality

I find it hard to take anything seriously from a site that considers evolution a myth

Here's some stuff for thought:
How our genes could make us gay or straight - The Washington Post
A gay Gene - Is Homosexuality Inherited Assault On Gay America FRONTLINE PBS

Most scientists seem to think that homosexuality is a combination of genetics (likely not one gene), enviroment, and biology. It's hard to untangle causes but they're pretty much in agreement that it's hard-wired, not a mental disorder.

I find it hard to take anything seriously from a site that considers evolution a myth

Coyote - WTF are you babbling about ? Stop howling at the moon and spit it out little fella

- The True.Origin Archive -

Okay - so what has that to do with what I posted ?

I don't always you agree with what you post - in fact some of your stuff is off the wall - does that mean you lose ALL credibility. The article YOU linked to is not the article I linked to - if you can't refute the content and they are presenting valid evidence who cares what their other opinions are ?

And just for the record - I'm not a Christian and have written against Christianity on an independent blog I maintain - so don't even try the Bible thumper argument .

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

So if people don't choose what they're attracted to and should be able to shag whoever they're attracted to, why doesn't that also go for people who are attracted to children? I mean, who are you to say your homo love is right, but their pedo love is wrong?

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

Sounds subjective, doesn't it? Why are you going to deny a 40 year old man his 14th Amendment rights to shag a 12 year old girl based on arbitrary permeable standards? What if the girl thinks she's ready? Why do you think you can determine their love is wrong? Take your religious bigotry and intolerance elsewhere and stop imposing your morality on others!

What if someone gets kidnapped and falls in love with their kidnapper, does that make the act of kidnapping right? If someone gets raped and gains some forced pleasure out of it, does that make the act of rape right? What if you have sex with a goat, and the goat likes it, by your silly logic that becomes permissible too.

No, actually that's YOUR SILLY LOGIC that's on display here, being repurposed to promote and defend pedophilia. That's the problem with sexual depravity, you don't get to pick and choose because they are all fruit from the same rotten tree.

 

[hipeter924]

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

Sounds subjective, doesn't it? Why are you going to deny a 40 year old man his 14th Amendment rights to shag a 12 year old girl based on arbitrary permeable standards? What if the girl thinks she's ready? Why do you think you can determine their love is wrong? Take your religious bigotry and intolerance elsewhere and stop imposing your morality on others!

This is a pretty scary post. It shows that you cannot discern the difference between consenting adults and a 12 year old being sexually abused by an adult.

That's what happens when you treat morality as relative instead of absolute. It backfires. Who are you to say that she's being abused and what makes you so sure your truth is more valid than theirs?

The argument for allowing homosexual relations, is not that people take pleasure out of it, or even love - as that isn't a requirement for heterosexual relations either.

 

[GreenBean]

Redfish is babbling.

Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined.

Show evidence that is IS!

Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such, then the problem is relative, and the far social con right has clearly shown they have no objective argument for denying marriage equality.

When their puffed up pretend intelligentsia pops up out of the box and spew their nonsense, it is time to pass coffee and donuts and enjoy the burlesque.

REDFISH: Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined

JAKEMALARKEY: It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such ....

The human genome is complete and the Human Genome Project is over .... Most of the major science journals reported on the progress in the field of genetics, .... The one piece of information that never materialized from the Human Genome Project was the identification of the so-called gay gene. There is none, Homosexuality is not truly a genetic issue, but as Freud and Socarides theorized - it's a Mental disorder.

Science vs. the Gay Gene

Pathology of Homosexuality

I find it hard to take anything seriously from a site that considers evolution a myth

Here's some stuff for thought:
How our genes could make us gay or straight - The Washington Post
A gay Gene - Is Homosexuality Inherited Assault On Gay America FRONTLINE PBS

Most scientists seem to think that homosexuality is a combination of genetics (likely not one gene), enviroment, and biology. It's hard to untangle causes but they're pretty much in agreement that it's hard-wired, not a mental disorder.

they're pretty much in agreement that it's hard-wired, not a mental disorder.

Complete and utter Bullshit - the only argument that lends any credence to the possibility of Homosexuality being inherited is the presence of certain brain enzymes in an extremely small percentage of Gay Men - that is not found in heterosexuals. I not absolutely certain if the percentages -but I believe it was less than 5%

"hard wired" doesn't mean there is only a genetic component. It's likely that homosexuality is influenced by a variety of factors including genetics. What does seem well supported is that it is not simply "a choice" -- it's hard wired. Which is why so-called ex-gay programs are such an abysmal failure. They might change the behavior (like celibacy in priests) but it doesn't change the orientation.

The evidence is against you - anyone who claims it is hard wired without a shred of viable evidence is biased - just curious Coyote - are you a Fag ?

Take your time getting back to me as I am logging off for now - the real world beckons.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

That was a for-profit wedding chapel like those you see in Vegas. You DID know that, right?

PASTORS.

For Profit Business.

You don't seem to get that ALL PASTORS were being threatened, so you're wrong, and like any stubborn Leftist, you can't admit when you're wrong because you'd never stop. That's a dangerous combination, incorrigibility and ignorance, and you model it well.

Pastors are not threatened at all.

For-profit marriage businesses will be closed.

Different thing altogether.

Jake - where did you read it only applied to For-profit? I couldn't find that (maybe I missed it). If it's for profit - then they aren't protected under religious freedom?

The Hobby Lobby ruling would seem to militate against that theory, I agree.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Redfish is babbling.

Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined.

Show evidence that is IS!

Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such, then the problem is relative, and the far social con right has clearly shown they have no objective argument for denying marriage equality.

When their puffed up pretend intelligentsia pops up out of the box and spew their nonsense, it is time to pass coffee and donuts and enjoy the burlesque.

REDFISH: Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined

JAKEMALARKEY: It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such ....

The human genome is complete and the Human Genome Project is over .... Most of the major science journals reported on the progress in the field of genetics, .... The one piece of information that never materialized from the Human Genome Project was the identification of the so-called gay gene. There is none, Homosexuality is not truly a genetic issue, but as Freud and Socarides theorized - it's a Mental disorder.

Science vs. the Gay Gene

Pathology of Homosexuality

I find it hard to take anything seriously from a site that considers evolution a myth

Here's some stuff for thought:
How our genes could make us gay or straight - The Washington Post
A gay Gene - Is Homosexuality Inherited Assault On Gay America FRONTLINE PBS

Most scientists seem to think that homosexuality is a combination of genetics (likely not one gene), enviroment, and biology. It's hard to untangle causes but they're pretty much in agreement that it's hard-wired, not a mental disorder.

they're pretty much in agreement that it's hard-wired, not a mental disorder.

Complete and utter Bullshit - the only argument that lends any credence to the possibility of Homosexuality being inherited is the presence of certain brain enzymes in an extremely small percentage of Gay Men - that is not found in heterosexuals. I not absolutely certain if the percentages -but I believe it was less than 5%

In other words, you don't have the evidence to discount genetically determined homosexuality. OK.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

Sounds subjective, doesn't it? Why are you going to deny a 40 year old man his 14th Amendment rights to shag a 12 year old girl based on arbitrary permeable standards? What if the girl thinks she's ready? Why do you think you can determine their love is wrong? Take your religious bigotry and intolerance elsewhere and stop imposing your morality on others!

This is a pretty scary post. It shows that you cannot discern the difference between consenting adults and a 12 year old being sexually abused by an adult.

That's what happens when you treat morality as relative instead of absolute. It backfires. Who are you to say that she's being abused and what makes you so sure your truth is more valid than theirs?

The argument for allowing homosexual relations, is not that people take pleasure out of it, or even love - as that isn't a requirement for heterosexual relations either.

Which doesn't help you. Maybe the 12 year old girls wants to get pregnant.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Redfish is babbling.

Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined.

Show evidence that is IS!

Don't have to because the sillies above in the thread flatly state there isn't. It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such, then the problem is relative, and the far social con right has clearly shown they have no objective argument for denying marriage equality.

When their puffed up pretend intelligentsia pops up out of the box and spew their nonsense, it is time to pass coffee and donuts and enjoy the burlesque.

REDFISH: Show me the scientific evidence that hetero and homo sexuality are not genetically determined

JAKEMALARKEY: It's their obligation to show by objective evidence. If there is not any such ....

The human genome is complete and the Human Genome Project is over .... Most of the major science journals reported on the progress in the field of genetics, .... The one piece of information that never materialized from the Human Genome Project was the identification of the so-called gay gene. There is none, Homosexuality is not truly a genetic issue, but as Freud and Socarides theorized - it's a Mental disorder.

Science vs. the Gay Gene

Pathology of Homosexuality

I find it hard to take anything seriously from a site that considers evolution a myth

Here's some stuff for thought:
How our genes could make us gay or straight - The Washington Post
A gay Gene - Is Homosexuality Inherited Assault On Gay America FRONTLINE PBS

Most scientists seem to think that homosexuality is a combination of genetics (likely not one gene), enviroment, and biology. It's hard to untangle causes but they're pretty much in agreement that it's hard-wired, not a mental disorder.

they're pretty much in agreement that it's hard-wired, not a mental disorder.

Complete and utter Bullshit - the only argument that lends any credence to the possibility of Homosexuality being inherited is the presence of certain brain enzymes in an extremely small percentage of Gay Men - that is not found in heterosexuals. I not absolutely certain if the percentages -but I believe it was less than 5%

In other words, you don't have the evidence to discount genetically determined homosexuality. OK.

There's no such thing as a genetically determined lifestyle CHOICE.

 

[hipeter924]

Because one is between two consenting adults, and the other is between an adult and a child (who by definition is below the age of consent).

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

Sounds subjective, doesn't it? Why are you going to deny a 40 year old man his 14th Amendment rights to shag a 12 year old girl based on arbitrary permeable standards? What if the girl thinks she's ready? Why do you think you can determine their love is wrong? Take your religious bigotry and intolerance elsewhere and stop imposing your morality on others!

What if someone gets kidnapped and falls in love with their kidnapper, does that make the act of kidnapping right? If someone gets raped and gains some forced pleasure out of it, does that make the act of rape right? What if you have sex with a goat, and the goat likes it, by your silly logic that becomes permissible too.

No, actually that's YOUR SILLY LOGIC that's on display here, being repurposed to promote and defend pedophilia. That's the problem with sexual depravity, you don't get to pick and choose because they are all fruit from the same rotten tree.

Damn. You really are out of touch.

It would suck to actually believe that there is any link between homosexuality and pedophilia, and to see 'gay agendas' like other people see ghosts and invisible friends.

 

[hipeter924]

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

Sounds subjective, doesn't it? Why are you going to deny a 40 year old man his 14th Amendment rights to shag a 12 year old girl based on arbitrary permeable standards? What if the girl thinks she's ready? Why do you think you can determine their love is wrong? Take your religious bigotry and intolerance elsewhere and stop imposing your morality on others!

This is a pretty scary post. It shows that you cannot discern the difference between consenting adults and a 12 year old being sexually abused by an adult.

That's what happens when you treat morality as relative instead of absolute. It backfires. Who are you to say that she's being abused and what makes you so sure your truth is more valid than theirs?

The argument for allowing homosexual relations, is not that people take pleasure out of it, or even love - as that isn't a requirement for heterosexual relations either.

Which doesn't help you. Maybe the 12 year old girls wants to get pregnant.

Maybe someone wants to commit suicide, maybe someone wants to murder. Come on seriously?

 

[JakeStarkey]

The social con far right wacks will not be allowed to make arbitrary permissible standards about who can marry who. Those days are over.

Once again the social con crazies make arguments ab absurdum about marriage equality as a slippery slope.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Who sets the age of consent? It was posted what the different ages of consent are by state. Why are they different?

They are different because all these numbers are arbitrary. There is no "right" or "wrong" age. Age is set by society using...nothing to base the number on.

Mark

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

Sounds subjective, doesn't it? Why are you going to deny a 40 year old man his 14th Amendment rights to shag a 12 year old girl based on arbitrary permeable standards? What if the girl thinks she's ready? Why do you think you can determine their love is wrong? Take your religious bigotry and intolerance elsewhere and stop imposing your morality on others!

What if someone gets kidnapped and falls in love with their kidnapper, does that make the act of kidnapping right? If someone gets raped and gains some forced pleasure out of it, does that make the act of rape right? What if you have sex with a goat, and the goat likes it, by your silly logic that becomes permissible too.

No, actually that's YOUR SILLY LOGIC that's on display here, being repurposed to promote and defend pedophilia. That's the problem with sexual depravity, you don't get to pick and choose because they are all fruit from the same rotten tree.

Damn. You really are out of touch. It would suck to actually believe that there is any link between homosexuality and pedophilia, and to see 'gay agendas' like other people see ghosts and invisible friends.

Sounds like you ran out of arguments. Better luck next time.

 

[Lilah]

Would a hermaphrodite be wired for straight or gay sex?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The social con far right wacks will not be allowed to make arbitrary permissible standards about who can marry who. Those days are over.

Once again the social con crazies make arguments ab absurdum about marriage equality as a slippery slope.

So you agree it's time to allow NAMBLA members to start loving little boys and marrying them, right? Or do you have a few "arbitrary permissible standards" of your own you think are more valid than others?

Damn, it's so fun to turn moral relativist arguments against them!

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Would a hermaphrodite be wired for straight or gay sex?

That's called a birth defect, just like homosexuality and just like "man who thinks he's a woman". Birth defects are not an excuse to force the freak show on everyone else.

 

[hipeter924]

The tooth fairy, who do you think? Obviously psychologists, lawmakers, the community, and science experts with knowledge of human biology.

Age of consent is determined by:

- The biological age of those involved, this means when someone is ready in a biological sense to engage in sexual activity.

- Whether someone can realistically consent to sexual activity and be aware of the consequences of that activity.

- What the parents and wider community have agreed is the the acceptable point where someone get be involved sexually with another.

- If someone is intellectually developed enough to be able to realistically make their own decisions i.e. obviously from 0-15 that is quite difficult.

Age of Consent is then supplemented by laws on rape, child abuse, prostitution, and on the treatment of people with intellectual or physical disabilities.

Sounds subjective, doesn't it? Why are you going to deny a 40 year old man his 14th Amendment rights to shag a 12 year old girl based on arbitrary permeable standards? What if the girl thinks she's ready? Why do you think you can determine their love is wrong? Take your religious bigotry and intolerance elsewhere and stop imposing your morality on others!

What if someone gets kidnapped and falls in love with their kidnapper, does that make the act of kidnapping right? If someone gets raped and gains some forced pleasure out of it, does that make the act of rape right? What if you have sex with a goat, and the goat likes it, by your silly logic that becomes permissible too.

No, actually that's YOUR SILLY LOGIC that's on display here, being repurposed to promote and defend pedophilia. That's the problem with sexual depravity, you don't get to pick and choose because they are all fruit from the same rotten tree.

Damn. You really are out of touch. It would suck to actually believe that there is any link between homosexuality and pedophilia, and to see 'gay agendas' like other people see ghosts and invisible friends.

Sounds like you ran out of arguments. Better luck next time.

Lol. You had an argument?

You provided no evidence to support your points, and spent I don't know how many pages bitching on about 'pedophilia' and 'depravity'.

Who wouldn't be bored by now.

 

[Lilah]

Would a hermaphrodite be wired for straight or gay sex?

That's called a birth defect, just like homosexuality and just like "man who thinks he's a woman". Birth defects are not an excuse to force the freak show on everyone else.

Has anyone ever forced you to commit to straight or gay? What if the doctor gets it wrong when he/she leaves the person with only one form of genitalia? Would that mistake manifest into (your words) a 'freak show?'

 

[bodecea]

Would a hermaphrodite be wired for straight or gay sex?

I honestly don't know....but I do remember reading that there are a lot more hermaphrodites born than we would guess.

 

[bodecea]

The social con far right wacks will not be allowed to make arbitrary permissible standards about who can marry who. Those days are over.

Once again the social con crazies make arguments ab absurdum about marriage equality as a slippery slope.

So you agree it's time to allow NAMBLA members to start loving little boys and marrying them, right? Or do you have a few "arbitrary permissible standards" of your own you think are more valid than others?

Damn, it's so fun to turn moral relativist arguments against them!

I hope that isn't the argument you are trying to make here. But.......as I noted earlier, you can't seem to distinquish between consent of law-abiding, tax-paying adults....and an adult sexually abusing a child.

 

[Lilah]

Would a hermaphrodite be wired for straight or gay sex?

That's called a birth defect, just like homosexuality and just like "man who thinks he's a woman". Birth defects are not an excuse to force the freak show on everyone else.

Has anyone ever forced you to commit to straight or gay? What if the doctor gets it wrong when he/she leaves the person with only one form of genitalia? Would that mistake manifest into (your words) a 'freak show?'

Would a hermaphrodite be wired for straight or gay sex?

I honestly don't know....but I do remember reading that there are a lot more hermaphrodites born than we would guess.

I became aware when I read the book, Middlesex. It was very eye-opening, as well as very sad.