The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[Indeependent]

Palestine legally existed in 1920 by the Allies and Axis powers signing the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres.

You're lying.

There were not to be any Jewish involvement in the government of Palestine.

What government of Palestine?

You are obviously confused.
The only way to learn the truth is by reading what the British had to say about the British Mandate for Palestine.
So the Churchill Whitepaper of 1922 is a quick synopsis.

The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922

{...
Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."

It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.

Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
...}

That clearly proves Palestine was to be Moslem Arab, independent rule.
Jews were only to be allowed facilitated immigration to a Jewish homeland WITHIN this independent Moslem, Arab, Palestine.
The Zionist Organization has pledged to never want any participation in rule, in the 1921 Carlsbad conference.

Why not bring up a document from 1922 where the Arabs living in the area did not yet establish a nation?
O! You did!
You are stupid.

The nation of Palestine was created by the 1920 treaties.
What the Palestinians had not yet created was a government, so then the British were mandated to hold their hand until they were ready.

It's been 90 years and they still haven't created a government, but their "government" has taken billions of dollars from the US and the UN.
Your refusal to see facts is comical.

 

[Indeependent]

Palestine legally existed in 1920 by the Allies and Axis powers signing the Treaty of San Remo and Treaty of Sevres.

You're lying.

There were not to be any Jewish involvement in the government of Palestine.

What government of Palestine?

You are obviously confused.
The only way to learn the truth is by reading what the British had to say about the British Mandate for Palestine.
So the Churchill Whitepaper of 1922 is a quick synopsis.

The Avalon Project : British White Paper of June 1922

{...
Unauthorized statements have been made to the effect that the purpose in view is to create a wholly Jewish Palestine. Phrases have been used such as that Palestine is to become "as Jewish as England is English." His Majesty's Government regard any such expectation as impracticable and have no such aim in view. Nor have they at any time contemplated, as appears to be feared by the Arab deegation, the disappearance or the subordination of the Arabic population, language, or culture in Palestine. They would draw attention to the fact that the terms of the Declaration referred to do not contemplate that Palestine as a whole should be converted into a Jewish National Home, but that such a Home should be founded `in Palestine.' In this connection it has been observed with satisfaction that at a meeting of the Zionist Congress, the supreme governing body of the Zionist Organization, held at Carlsbad in September, 1921, a resolution was passed expressing as the official statement of Zionist aims "the determination of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people on terms of unity and mutual respect, and together with them to make the common home into a flourishing community, the upbuilding of which may assure to each of its peoples an undisturbed national development."

It is also necessary to point out that the Zionist Commission in Palestine, now termed the Palestine Zionist Executive, has not desired to possess, and does not possess, any share in the general administration of the country. Nor does the special position assigned to the Zionist Organization in Article IV of the Draft Mandate for Palestine imply any such functions. That special position relates to the measures to be taken in Palestine affecting the Jewish population, and contemplates that the organization may assist in the general development of the country, but does not entitle it to share in any degree in its government.

Further, it is contemplated that the status of all citizens of Palestine in the eyes of the law shall be Palestinian, and it has never been intended that they, or any section of them, should possess any other juridical status. So far as the Jewish population of Palestine are concerned it appears that some among them are apprehensive that His Majesty's Government may depart from the policy embodied in the Declaration of 1917. It is necessary, therefore, once more to affirm that these fears are unfounded, and that that Declaration, re affirmed by the Conference of the Principle Allied Powers at San Remo and again in the Treaty of Sevres, is not susceptible of change.
...}

That clearly proves Palestine was to be Moslem Arab, independent rule.
Jews were only to be allowed facilitated immigration to a Jewish homeland WITHIN this independent Moslem, Arab, Palestine.
The Zionist Organization has pledged to never want any participation in rule, in the 1921 Carlsbad conference.

Why not bring up a document from 1922 where the Arabs living in the area did not yet establish a nation?
O! You did!
You are stupid.

The nation of Palestine was created by the 1920 treaties.
What the Palestinians had not yet created was a government, so then the British were mandated to hold their hand until they were ready.

They were ready in May 1948.

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Arab "Palestinians", still not ready.......

Obviously the Palestinians are not ready because they were illegally invaded by Israel.
To be ready, they would need arms and an army that could defend themselves.
And the illegal occupation by Israel prevents that.

Obviously the Palestinians are not ready because they were illegally invaded by Israel.

Back in the 1920s, when the nation of Palestine was created by treaty? Sneaky Jews.

To be ready, they would need arms and an army that could defend themselves.

And they'd have to work at it. Their whining doesn't count as work.

Yes, the Zionists were attacking the natives way back in the 1920s.
Why do you think the British were arresting and executing Zionists, and why do you think the Zionists finally wiped out the British peacekeeper command?
Not to mention why the Zionists gunned down the UN Moderator, Folke Bernadotte?
It obviously was so there was no one to stop the mass murder of Arabs by immigrant Zionists.

Any Links from non-Arab sites?

 

[Indeependent]

Israel stole Jerusalem and the West Bank from Palestine,

Palestine? Sweet!!!

Who were the elected leaders of this "Palestine" you speak of?
What was their currency? Who was in charge of their central bank?
What were the interest rates on their debt the day before their land was stolen?

You have any links to back you up?
Besides that cloud of bong smoke you keep pulling your info from?

Abbas is the temporary elected leader since the Israelis assassinated the previous Hamas president.

The currency of Palestine is the Palestine Pound.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_pound.

And the backing of their currency is the US and Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Self-determination: the Palestinian trump card - Opinion

The right to self-determination of the Palestinians is inviolable, undermining legally and morally the propaganda surrounding the UN’s supposed recognition of Israel

english.ahram.org.eg

Understood in the context of international law, such a statement must have meant that a “national home for the Jewish people” would only be established in Palestine with the Palestinians’ consent.


Moreover, after a short period of military occupation and administration, the British agreed to administer Palestine as a mandatory power of the “Allied Powers-created” League of Nations. The British were granted the League of Nations Mandate under Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations at a meeting held in San Remo, Italy, on 24 August 1920.


This mandate set the terms, with Britain’s agreement, by which the international community would ensure the fundamental right to self-determination of the Palestinian people. The mandate was authorised by Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations that governed its interpretation and implementation in relation to Palestine. This article made it clear that the mandatory power only held Palestine in trust until its people “are able to stand alone”. It is also stated unequivocally that the “wishes” of the Palestinians must be the “principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory”.


The ICJ described the League of Nations mandates as “created, in the interests of the inhabitants of the Territory, and of humanity in general, as an international institution with an international object —a sacred trust of civilisation.” The mandate did not, in the words of the World Court, “involve any cession of territory or transfer of sovereignty” and the mandatory power exercised its responsibility “with the object of promoting the well-being and development of the inhabitants”.


The right to self-determination for peoples who were not subject to claims of permanent sovereignty by a state provided for —and still provides today —for the recognition of the will of the local community to determine their own future. Thus by virtue of their right to self-determination the Palestinian people, about 80 per cent of whom were Muslim or Arabs or both, had the right to decide their own future without the interference of any foreign state, including the mandatory power. Indeed, Britain’s legal obligation under international law was to facilitate the realisation of the right to self-determination by the Palestinian people.

 

[Hollie]

Self-determination: the Palestinian trump card - Opinion

The right to self-determination of the Palestinians is inviolable, undermining legally and morally the propaganda surrounding the UN’s supposed recognition of Israel

english.ahram.org.eg

Understood in the context of international law, such a statement must have meant that a “national home for the Jewish people” would only be established in Palestine with the Palestinians’ consent.


Moreover, after a short period of military occupation and administration, the British agreed to administer Palestine as a mandatory power of the “Allied Powers-created” League of Nations. The British were granted the League of Nations Mandate under Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations at a meeting held in San Remo, Italy, on 24 August 1920.


This mandate set the terms, with Britain’s agreement, by which the international community would ensure the fundamental right to self-determination of the Palestinian people. The mandate was authorised by Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations that governed its interpretation and implementation in relation to Palestine. This article made it clear that the mandatory power only held Palestine in trust until its people “are able to stand alone”. It is also stated unequivocally that the “wishes” of the Palestinians must be the “principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory”.


The ICJ described the League of Nations mandates as “created, in the interests of the inhabitants of the Territory, and of humanity in general, as an international institution with an international object —a sacred trust of civilisation.” The mandate did not, in the words of the World Court, “involve any cession of territory or transfer of sovereignty” and the mandatory power exercised its responsibility “with the object of promoting the well-being and development of the inhabitants”.


The right to self-determination for peoples who were not subject to claims of permanent sovereignty by a state provided for —and still provides today —for the recognition of the will of the local community to determine their own future. Thus by virtue of their right to self-determination the Palestinian people, about 80 per cent of whom were Muslim or Arabs or both, had the right to decide their own future without the interference of any foreign state, including the mandatory power. Indeed, Britain’s legal obligation under international law was to facilitate the realisation of the right to self-determination by the Palestinian people.

You should send the above and and an irrelevant Linda Sarsour youtube video to the UN.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: No, it is you that do not understand in terms of the "context.'

Understood in the context of international law, such a statement must have meant that a “national home for the Jewish people” would only be established in Palestine with the Palestinians’ consent.

(COMMENT)

In over a century, no document or political statement has ever eluded to a "need" for Arab Palestinian approval. A century ago, the only obligation that was made in that context → was actually an agreement between the Principal Allied Powers.

The Allied Powers agreed among themselves that there should be the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people and that nothing should be done which: (See Paragraph 2 of the Preamble to the Mandate for Palestine.

◈ Might prejudice the "rights and political status" enjoyed by Jews. ​

​

◈ Might prejudice the "civil and religious rights" of existing non-Jewish communities (ie the Arab Palestinians).​

​

These are two entirely different sets of rights to be considered. It is critical to the understanding of the arguments presented by the Arab Palestinians to understand the "INTENT" of the Allied Powers." One for the Jews (rights and political status), and one for the non-Jews (civil and religious rights). And you have to understand what the 1922 era → Rights, Civil Rights, Religious Rights, and the Political Status meant in context a century ago.

In the of P F Tinmore, he certainly wants to ignore the context in time. He makes an interpretive assumption that is clearly not in evidence. He ignores that something else exists that is in evidence. When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play? (RHETORICAL) Certainly not before the Allied Powers protected the "rights and political status" enjoyed by Jews.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: No, it is you that do not understand in terms of the "context.'

Understood in the context of international law, such a statement must have meant that a “national home for the Jewish people” would only be established in Palestine with the Palestinians’ consent.

(COMMENT)

In over a century, no document or political statement has ever eluded to a "need" for Arab Palestinian approval. A century ago, the only obligation that was made in that context → was actually an agreement between the Principal Allied Powers.

The Allied Powers agreed among themselves that there should be the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people and that nothing should be done which: (See Paragraph 2 of the Preamble to the Mandate for Palestine.

◈ Might prejudice the "rights and political status" enjoyed by Jews. ​

​

◈ Might prejudice the "civil and religious rights" of existing non-Jewish communities (ie the Arab Palestinians).​

​

These are two entirely different sets of rights to be considered. It is critical to the understanding of the arguments presented by the Arab Palestinians to understand the "INTENT" of the Allied Powers." One for the Jews (rights and political status), and one for the non-Jews (civil and religious rights). And you have to understand what the 1922 era → Rights, Civil Rights, Religious Rights, and the Political Status meant in context a century ago.

In the of P F Tinmore, he certainly wants to ignore the context in time. He makes an interpretive assumption that is clearly not in evidence. He ignores that something else exists that is in evidence. When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play? (RHETORICAL) Certainly not before the Allied Powers protected the "rights and political status" enjoyed by Jews.

Most Respectfully,
R

You love that external interference.

 

[P F Tinmore]

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: OK, the oldest document listed by you is, the UN Charter 1945. Nothing more binding until when? (RHETORICAL) More than a quarter of a century after Israels Independence. Of the 9 core international human rights instruments, the oldest of these are:

◈ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; Entered into Force in 1969​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

Having said that, I would like to role back to WWII. There is the Joint Declaration of the President of the United States of America (US) and the Prime Minister, Mr. Churchill, representing His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom (UK) (AKA: The Atlantic Charter). This Charter has some very specific declarations. But those declarations are expressly applicable ONLY to the US and UK and only refer to the "desires" of the government and NOT obligations or requirements. I would like to call your attention to three of the eight passages in the declaration (supra):

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;​

​

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;​

​

Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic prosperity;​

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

(COMMENT)
.
It will be exceptionally difficult to define these rights as you have expressed them. This is because the types and kinds of governments very. Rights are phased into effect on the acceptance.

First Generation (human rights) → civil and political,​

​

Second Generation (human rights) → economic and social rights,​

​

Third Generation (human rights) → self-determination and development,​

These three generate groups of rights are exceedingly difficult to define in any universally accepted way. These groups of rights are in the Core Interments for Human Rights (supra). Without these core instruments, you simply cannot define (in any binding way) what is meant by these Rights that does not become subjective and controversial.

Certainly, the Arab Palestinian arguments rely heavily on non-binding interpretations that are not universally the custom in the countries of the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: QUESTION on Self-determination
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The ICJ described the League of Nations mandates as “created, in the interests of the inhabitants of the Territory, and of humanity in general, as an international institution with an international object —a sacred trust of civilisation.” The mandate did not, in the words of the World Court, “involve any cession of territory or transfer of sovereignty” and the mandatory power exercised its responsibility “with the object of promoting the well-being and development of the inhabitants”.

(QUESTION)

When were the Arab Palestinians denied the Right of Self-determination?
When did the Arab Palestinians come together and formed a body to achieve and Arab State?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: OK, the oldest document listed by you is, the UN Charter 1945. Nothing more binding until when? (RHETORICAL) More than a quarter of a century after Israels Independence. Of the 9 core international human rights instruments, the oldest of these are:

◈ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; Entered into Force in 1969​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

Having said that, I would like to role back to WWII. There is theJoint Declaration of the President of the United States of America (US) and the Prime Minister, Mr. Churchill, representing His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom (UK) (AKA: The Atlantic Charter). This Charter has some very specific declarations. But those declarations are expressly applicable ONLY to the US and UK and only refer to the "desires" of the government and NOT obligations or requirements. I would like to call your attention to three of the eight passages in the declaration (supra):

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;​

​

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;​

​

Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic prosperity;​

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

(COMMENT)
.
It will be exceptionally difficult to define these rights as you have expressed them. This is because the types and kinds of governments very. Rights are phased into effect on the acceptance.

First Generation (human rights) → civil and political,​

​

Second Generation (human rights) → economic and social rights,​

​

Third Generation (human rights) → self-determination and development,​

These three generate groups of rights are exceedingly difficult to define in any universally accepted way. These groups of rights are in the Core Interments for Human Rights (supra). Without these core instruments, you simply cannot define (in any binding way) what is meant by these Rights that does not become subjective and controversial.

Certainly, the Arab Palestinian arguments rely heavily on non-binding interpretations that are not universally the custom in the countries of the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

Holy verbosity, Batman!

Now how about answering the question?

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: QUESTION on Self-determination
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

The ICJ described the League of Nations mandates as “created, in the interests of the inhabitants of the Territory, and of humanity in general, as an international institution with an international object —a sacred trust of civilisation.” The mandate did not, in the words of the World Court, “involve any cession of territory or transfer of sovereignty” and the mandatory power exercised its responsibility “with the object of promoting the well-being and development of the inhabitants”.

(QUESTION)

When were the Arab Palestinians denied the Right of Self-determination?
When did the Arab Palestinians come together and formed a body to achieve and Arab State?

Most Respectfully,
R

Why do you answer a question with a question?

Do I?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: QUESTION on Self-determination
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I did not see one question mark except for the single reprint (cut'n'paste) of my question. And I object to your continuous ad hominem attack about being verbose. You confuse being thorough and citing references as being verbose.

Why do you answer a question with a question?
Do I?

Holy verbosity, Batman!
Now how about answering the question?

(COMMENT)

If you are going to make complex allegations, then use the language correctly for the specified time period. Don't use late 20th Century and early 21st Century criteria for events that happened during the Six-Day War (67) and earlier.

And if you are going to claim that the Palestinians have a 1967 Border, then you best defend how that came about and the method by which the territorial boundary is defined. From a view by the outside observer, Israel has established its border between the State of Israel and the dubious State of Palestine by means of self-determination. If you are going to claim that Israel's self-determination is invalid, then defend the claim.

I however addressed the issue. And again you advocate the exact opposite of the law. You want to retroactively apply non-bind criteria to events that happened before such rights might even have been created in binding form.

(IMO)

You don't really want to address the issues. You don't actually read the commentary. And you simply don't do the research that equips you to discuss the issue in point-by-point fashion. You don't give any specificity to the questions that you do present. And often, in your biased dialog, you build them on assumptions, not in evidence.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: OK, the oldest document listed by you is, the UN Charter 1945. Nothing more binding until when? (RHETORICAL) More than a quarter of a century after Israels Independence. Of the 9 core international human rights instruments, the oldest of these are:

◈ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; Entered into Force in 1969​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

Having said that, I would like to role back to WWII. There is theJoint Declaration of the President of the United States of America (US) and the Prime Minister, Mr. Churchill, representing His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom (UK) (AKA: The Atlantic Charter). This Charter has some very specific declarations. But those declarations are expressly applicable ONLY to the US and UK and only refer to the "desires" of the government and NOT obligations or requirements. I would like to call your attention to three of the eight passages in the declaration (supra):

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;​

​

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;​

​

Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic prosperity;​

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

(COMMENT)
.
It will be exceptionally difficult to define these rights as you have expressed them. This is because the types and kinds of governments very. Rights are phased into effect on the acceptance.

First Generation (human rights) → civil and political,​

​

Second Generation (human rights) → economic and social rights,​

​

Third Generation (human rights) → self-determination and development,​

These three generate groups of rights are exceedingly difficult to define in any universally accepted way. These groups of rights are in the Core Interments for Human Rights (supra). Without these core instruments, you simply cannot define (in any binding way) what is meant by these Rights that does not become subjective and controversial.

Certainly, the Arab Palestinian arguments rely heavily on non-binding interpretations that are not universally the custom in the countries of the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

Simple question.
When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

And I get a whole page of non answer.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: OK, the oldest document listed by you is, the UN Charter 1945. Nothing more binding until when? (RHETORICAL) More than a quarter of a century after Israels Independence. Of the 9 core international human rights instruments, the oldest of these are:

◈ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; Entered into Force in 1969​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

Having said that, I would like to role back to WWII. There is theJoint Declaration of the President of the United States of America (US) and the Prime Minister, Mr. Churchill, representing His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom (UK) (AKA: The Atlantic Charter). This Charter has some very specific declarations. But those declarations are expressly applicable ONLY to the US and UK and only refer to the "desires" of the government and NOT obligations or requirements. I would like to call your attention to three of the eight passages in the declaration (supra):

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;​

​

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;​

​

Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic prosperity;​

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

(COMMENT)
.
It will be exceptionally difficult to define these rights as you have expressed them. This is because the types and kinds of governments very. Rights are phased into effect on the acceptance.

First Generation (human rights) → civil and political,​

​

Second Generation (human rights) → economic and social rights,​

​

Third Generation (human rights) → self-determination and development,​

These three generate groups of rights are exceedingly difficult to define in any universally accepted way. These groups of rights are in the Core Interments for Human Rights (supra). Without these core instruments, you simply cannot define (in any binding way) what is meant by these Rights that does not become subjective and controversial.

Certainly, the Arab Palestinian arguments rely heavily on non-binding interpretations that are not universally the custom in the countries of the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

Simple question.
When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

And I get a whole page of non answer.

Your reading comprehension skills are non-functioning.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: OK, the oldest document listed by you is, the UN Charter 1945. Nothing more binding until when? (RHETORICAL) More than a quarter of a century after Israels Independence. Of the 9 core international human rights instruments, the oldest of these are:

◈ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; Entered into Force in 1969​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

Having said that, I would like to role back to WWII. There is theJoint Declaration of the President of the United States of America (US) and the Prime Minister, Mr. Churchill, representing His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom (UK) (AKA: The Atlantic Charter). This Charter has some very specific declarations. But those declarations are expressly applicable ONLY to the US and UK and only refer to the "desires" of the government and NOT obligations or requirements. I would like to call your attention to three of the eight passages in the declaration (supra):

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;​

​

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;​

​

Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic prosperity;​

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

(COMMENT)
.
It will be exceptionally difficult to define these rights as you have expressed them. This is because the types and kinds of governments very. Rights are phased into effect on the acceptance.

First Generation (human rights) → civil and political,​

​

Second Generation (human rights) → economic and social rights,​

​

Third Generation (human rights) → self-determination and development,​

These three generate groups of rights are exceedingly difficult to define in any universally accepted way. These groups of rights are in the Core Interments for Human Rights (supra). Without these core instruments, you simply cannot define (in any binding way) what is meant by these Rights that does not become subjective and controversial.

Certainly, the Arab Palestinian arguments rely heavily on non-binding interpretations that are not universally the custom in the countries of the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

Simple question.
When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

And I get a whole page of non answer.

Your reading comprehension skills are non-functioning.

So, where was the answer?

 

[rylah]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: OK, the oldest document listed by you is, the UN Charter 1945. Nothing more binding until when? (RHETORICAL) More than a quarter of a century after Israels Independence. Of the 9 core international human rights instruments, the oldest of these are:

◈ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; Entered into Force in 1969​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

Having said that, I would like to role back to WWII. There is theJoint Declaration of the President of the United States of America (US) and the Prime Minister, Mr. Churchill, representing His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom (UK) (AKA: The Atlantic Charter). This Charter has some very specific declarations. But those declarations are expressly applicable ONLY to the US and UK and only refer to the "desires" of the government and NOT obligations or requirements. I would like to call your attention to three of the eight passages in the declaration (supra):

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;​

​

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;​

​

Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic prosperity;​

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

(COMMENT)
.
It will be exceptionally difficult to define these rights as you have expressed them. This is because the types and kinds of governments very. Rights are phased into effect on the acceptance.

First Generation (human rights) → civil and political,​

​

Second Generation (human rights) → economic and social rights,​

​

Third Generation (human rights) → self-determination and development,​

These three generate groups of rights are exceedingly difficult to define in any universally accepted way. These groups of rights are in the Core Interments for Human Rights (supra). Without these core instruments, you simply cannot define (in any binding way) what is meant by these Rights that does not become subjective and controversial.

Certainly, the Arab Palestinian arguments rely heavily on non-binding interpretations that are not universally the custom in the countries of the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

Simple question.
When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

And I get a whole page of non answer.

Your reading comprehension skills are non-functioning.

So, where was the answer?

Are you asking people to prove a fallacy? Nice game there.

I'm still waiting to hear your answer for the international law that vested sovereignty
to any Arab national self determination - in actual law, like ever....

 

[rylah]

Q. On what basis do Arabs demand exclusive domination over the entire Middle East?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

FORWARD: This is as simple as I can make it give the specificity of the question asked.

(COMMENT)

The question is incomplete. It defaults to ALL rights. No culture gets all its rights all at once.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

And I get a whole page of non answer.

(COMMENT)

•• In 1920, The Allied Powers insured that the (what we call today) Arab Palestinians First Generation (human rights) → civil and religious.

•• By 1941, under the Atlantic Conference, it was agreed that everyone would have Second Generation (human rights) → Atlantic Charter determined no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;

•• By 1967 (going into force in 1976), two parallel groups of additional rights were articulated.

◈ Economic, Social and Cultural Rights​

​

◈ Civil and Political Rights​

Since you did not specify a time, I outlined First, Second, and Third Generation Rights:

First Generation (human rights) A descriptor for civil and political rights, being the oldest, most widely acknowledged and accepted, and least controversial of the three ‘generations’ of human rights. Archetypically, these rights are enumerated in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights of 16 December 1966.

Second Generation (human rights) A descriptor for economic and social rights, being later in time developing, less widely acknowledged and accepted and more controversial than First Generation human rights (civil and political).

Third Generation (human rights) A descriptor for human rights enjoyed by groups rather than individuals, such as the rights to self-determination and development ( see development, so-called right of ), being, generally (with the exception of self- determination), the most recent, least widely acknowledged and accepted and most controversial of the three ‘generations’ of human rights.
SOURCE: Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law / John P. Grant and J. Craig Barker. -- 3rd ed. Copyright © 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc.

Most Respectfully,
R
PS: Your question was answered. It was not verbose. I think you just ignore answers that don't fit the Arab Palestinian Agenda.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Palestinian Talks, lectures, & interviews.
SUBTOPIC: Consent
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: OK, the oldest document listed by you is, the UN Charter 1945. Nothing more binding until when? (RHETORICAL) More than a quarter of a century after Israels Independence. Of the 9 core international human rights instruments, the oldest of these are:

◈ International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination; Entered into Force in 1969​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

◈ International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights; Entered into Force in 1976​

​

Having said that, I would like to role back to WWII. There is theJoint Declaration of the President of the United States of America (US) and the Prime Minister, Mr. Churchill, representing His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom (UK) (AKA: The Atlantic Charter). This Charter has some very specific declarations. But those declarations are expressly applicable ONLY to the US and UK and only refer to the "desires" of the government and NOT obligations or requirements. I would like to call your attention to three of the eight passages in the declaration (supra):

Second, they desire to see no territorial changes that do not accord with the freely expressed wishes of the peoples concerned;​

​

Third, they respect the right of all peoples to choose the form of government under which they will live; and they wish to see sovereign rights and self government restored to those who have been forcibly deprived of them;​

​

Fourth, they will endeavor, with due respect for their existing obligations, to further the enjoyment by all States, great or small, victor or vanquished, of access, on equal terms, to the trade and to the raw materials of the world which are needed for their economic prosperity;​

When did these various rights the Arab Palestinians come into play?

Excellent question.
-------------
Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

-------------------------
If, as you claim, the Palestinians did not have these rights during the Mandate period. And they did have these rights in 1974 as the UN states.

When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

Hmmm!

(COMMENT)
.
It will be exceptionally difficult to define these rights as you have expressed them. This is because the types and kinds of governments very. Rights are phased into effect on the acceptance.

First Generation (human rights) → civil and political,​

​

Second Generation (human rights) → economic and social rights,​

​

Third Generation (human rights) → self-determination and development,​

These three generate groups of rights are exceedingly difficult to define in any universally accepted way. These groups of rights are in the Core Interments for Human Rights (supra). Without these core instruments, you simply cannot define (in any binding way) what is meant by these Rights that does not become subjective and controversial.

Certainly, the Arab Palestinian arguments rely heavily on non-binding interpretations that are not universally the custom in the countries of the Middle East.

Most Respectfully,
R

Simple question.
When, and under what circumstances, did the Palestinians get these rights?

And I get a whole page of non answer.

Your reading comprehension skills are non-functioning.

So, where was the answer?

Do you really think anyone takes your spamming as anything but nonsense?