The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate

[P F Tinmore]

The Zionist Colonization of Palestine PART 1​

​

The Zionist Colonization of Palestine PART 2​

 

[rylah]

The Palestinians were the unarmed civilians.

By definition,
or you've just excluded the Jews
and pretend Arab supremacists were unarmed?

Quiet a thin line to hold an entire narrative from falling apart.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Military Attacks
※→ P F Timore, et al,

This is an incredibly gross misrepresentation of the facts (deception).

Military attacks on unarmed civilians.

You can't get any more candy ass than that.

(COMMENT)

I have yet to read about a "deliberate attack" by the IDF on civilians. I have heard, on rare occasions, inadvertent and accidental casualties in the "Fog of War" or collateral damage and casualties as a result of Human Error. But considering the duration of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) activity, those numbers are small. That is not to say that each casualty is unimportant; each life does count and is regrettable. But in the conflict between the Anti-Israeli Forces in Palestine and the Defense Forces of Israel casualties are quite small.

Now! The Israelis do not initiate combat action against the HoAP (as a general rule). What YOU fail to take note of is the fact that each and every strike the IDF makes → is against a military target that has presented a threat to Israeli Sovereignty.

So! How do the Arab Palestinians suffer casualties? (RHETORICAL)

Such casualties are a direct result when the HoAP initiates attacks on Israel from → or in close proximity to the Palestinians that deserve protection. The HoAP launched such attacks attempting to use the dense population as cover and concealment of hostile activities within these densely populated areas. This happens when they ignore three basic Customary Rules:

As usual, this is a direct result of HoAP using their Right of Self-Determination along a path of declared "Armed Struggle."

And each time you make accusations as you have here, you are failing to accept the consequences of the HoAP Action.

I think it is a despicable practice. It is the "candy ass" that hides behind the child as a shield and the women for concealment. But this is an HoAP Policy.

I do not know how you can make such a claim when the HoAP:

When you openly praise role models like Dalal Mughrabi is the female terrorist who led the PLO terrorists responsible for the Coastal Road Massacre in 1978, in which 38 Israelis, 12 of them children, were murdered.

Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎

​

SOURCE: Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) Nan Jacques Zilberdik | Jan 25, 2021
​

This is not a new path. It dates back more than a half-century ago.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Military Attacks
※→ P F Timore, et al,

This is an incredibly gross misrepresentation of the facts (deception).


(COMMENT)

I have yet to read about a "deliberate attack" by the IDF on civilians. I have heard, on rare occasions, inadvertent and accidental casualties in the "Fog of War" or collateral damage and casualties as a result of Human Error. But considering the duration of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) activity, those numbers are small. That is not to say that each casualty is unimportant; each life does count and is regrettable. But in the conflict between the Anti-Israeli Forces in Palestine and the Defense Forces of Israel casualties are quite small.

Now! The Israelis do not initiate combat action against the HoAP (as a general rule). What YOU fail to take note of is the fact that each and every strike the IDF makes → is against a military target that has presented a threat to Israeli Sovereignty.

So! How do the Arab Palestinians suffer casualties? (RHETORICAL)

Such casualties are a direct result when the HoAP initiates attacks on Israel from → or in close proximity to the Palestinians that deserve protection. The HoAP launched such attacks attempting to use the dense population as cover and concealment of hostile activities within these densely populated areas. This happens when they ignore three basic Customary Rules:
View attachment 598542
As usual, this is a direct result of HoAP using their Right of Self-Determination along a path of declared "Armed Struggle."

And each time you make accusations as you have here, you are failing to accept the consequences of the HoAP Action.

I think it is a despicable practice. It is the "candy ass" that hides behind the child as a shield and the women for concealment. But this is an HoAP Policy.

I do not know how you can make such a claim when the HoAP:

When you openly praise role models like Dalal Mughrabi is the female terrorist who led the PLO terrorists responsible for the Coastal Road Massacre in 1978, in which 38 Israelis, 12 of them children, were murdered.

Fatah chooses the path of violence and encourages Palestinians to die as “Martyrs” for ‎‎“Palestine.” That message was cemented by Fatah Revolutionary Council member ‎Raed Radwan, who stressed that Palestinians must be prepared “to sacrifice blood”:‎

View attachment 598549
SOURCE: Palestinian Media Watch (PMW) Nan Jacques Zilberdik | Jan 25, 2021
​

This is not a new path. It dates back more than a half-century ago.

Most Respectfully,
R

My comment was in reference to the creation of Israel, the Nakba. Military forces attacked unarmed Palestinian civilians to drive them off their land to achieve the demographics needed to create a Jewish majority state. Since Jews were only 1/3 of the population in 1947, it was necessary for them to get rid of as many Palestinians possible.

 

[Sixties Fan]

My comment was in reference to the creation of Israel, the Nakba. Military forces attacked unarmed Palestinian civilians to drive them off their land to achieve the demographics needed to create a Jewish majority state. Since Jews were only 1/3 of the population in 1947, it was necessary for them to get rid of as many Palestinians possible.

Repeat a lie a Million times and eventually it will become the truth in your mind, Tinmore, this and many other lies you attempt to make others believe.

Nakba was what Jews of TransJordan experienced in 1925 when they were expelled from their homes in their own homeland to give space for the British Indian giving gift to the Hashemites.

Nakba is what the Jews experienced in 1929 in Hebron.

Nakba is what the Jews experienced in 1948 when the Jordanian Army with the British help, expelled all Jews from their Jewish Homeland in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, which is WHAT now, even after 1967 ?

Nakba is the continued Christian and Muslim intent in killing all Jews so that they can feel at long last.......the Chosen Ones.

You are all a very dangerous joke. Very deadly, sad and pathetic dangerous joke.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Repeat a lie a Million times and eventually it will become the truth in your mind, Tinmore, this and many other lies you attempt to make others believe.

Nakba was what Jews of TransJordan experienced in 1925 when they were expelled from their homes in their own homeland to give space for the British Indian giving gift to the Hashemites.

Nakba is what the Jews experienced in 1929 in Hebron.

Nakba is what the Jews experienced in 1948 when the Jordanian Army with the British help, expelled all Jews from their Jewish Homeland in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, which is WHAT now, even after 1967 ?

Nakba is the continued Christian and Muslim intent in killing all Jews so that they can feel at long last.......the Chosen Ones.

You are all a very dangerous joke. Very deadly, sad and pathetic dangerous joke.

Nice deflection.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Military Attacks
※→ P F Timore, et al,

The term "Nakba" is a politically disguised term for propaganda purposes. Any educated person knows that such combat action, between the Jewish Immigrants and the Arabs of the territory, govern under the Mandate, (that being prior to May 1948) was a non-international armed conflict between two domestic factions within the SAME territory. (See Below). The territory formerly subject to the Mandate of Palestine did not have any independent and self-governing entities.

The use of that term is a deceptive measure to avoid unveiling the true nature of the conflict (Civil War). (See Below)

My comment was in reference to the creation of Israel, the Nakba. Military forces attacked unarmed Palestinian civilians to drive them off their land to achieve the demographics needed to create a Jewish majority state. Since Jews were only 1/3 of the population in 1947, it was necessary for them to get rid of as many Palestinians possible.

(COMMENT)

There were no military forces operating in the territory except for the British.

Most Respectfully,
R
____________________________________
QUOTES
International humanitarian law distinguishes two types of armed conflicts, namely:

• international armed conflicts, opposing two or more States, and
• non-international armed conflicts, between governmental forces and non-
  governmental armed groups, or between such groups only. IHL treaty law also establishes a distinction between non-international armed conflicts in the meaning of common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and non-international armed conflicts falling within the definition provided in Art. 1 of Additional Protocol II.

civil war
Semble this is not a term of art in international law and any definition of it is difficult to find in the writings of that discipline. War, in terms of international law, is essentially international war—between entities at least one of which is a State (no other being, strictly, required to be such, provided that the State party treats the conflict as governed by the laws of war). By contrast, therefore, a civil war appears to be a conflict, no doubt necessarily of a public character, either between entities none of which are States or which is otherwise not governed by international law (because, as in most cases, it falls within the sphere of intra-State or constitutional rather than inter-State law and relations). But a civil war in this sense of a conflict internal to a State may nevertheless be of concern to international law. Indeed, the majority of conflicts since 1945 have been intra-State: U.N. Secretary-General Boutros-Ghali, Agenda for Peace of 17 June 1992 ( U.N. Doc. A/47/277—S/24111 ), paras. 8–19, and its Supplement of 3 January 1995 ( U.N. Doc. A/50/60—S/1995/1), para. 10. The Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 ( 75 U.N.T.S. 3ff. ) each stipulate (art. 3) for the application of certain minimum provisions of these Conventions ‘in the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the … Parties’; Additional Protocol II to the 1949 Geneva Conventions of 8 June 1977 ( 1125 U.N.T.S. 609 ) specifically addresses, in 18 substantive articles, as its title states, the ‘Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts’: the recognition of insurgent or belligerent status of contending factions ( see recognition of belligerency; recognition of insurgency ), whether by the parent State or by third States, may or must elevate a hitherto internal conflict into an international war for purposes of at least that part of international law which has to do with war and neutrality.
SOURCE:
International law--Encyclopedias. I. Grant, John P. II. Barker, J. Craig, 1966-III. Parry, Clive. Parry and Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law IV. Title V Title: Encyclopaedic dictionary of international law. Copyright 2009 by Oxford University Press, Inc. pg 98

 

[Sixties Fan]

Nice deflection.

Keep rejecting reality.
You have nothing to gain by Israel not existing.
The Arabs in Israel and in Gaza and Judea and Samaria are doing quite well in Israel, working, studying, able to get out of Gaza and never come back.

Keep rejecting history with your "nice deflection" nonsense which continues to harm the ones you want to destroy Israel.

Decency and honor are two words which cannot be attributed to the Arab leaders and people like yourself.

Hatred for Jews is an illness.

Get rid of it.

Jesus does not love Jew haters.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There were no military forces operating in the territory except for the British.

Not so. The foreign Zionist colonial project had a full army and started conscripting troops in December of 1947.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Not so. The foreign Zionist colonial project had a full army and started conscripting troops in December of 1947.

The Zionists were Jews indigenous to the homeland where they were going to reconstruct their Nation.

ON their own homeland.

They had to arm themselves and fight the enemy just as their ancestors had fought the Greeks, the Persians and the Romans.

No Arab ever fought those invaders. And then, the Arabs became invaders themselves after defeating the Byzantine which was after the Roman Empire.

In a nutshell, the Jews took back 20 % of their homeland from the Arab Muslims and Christian British invaders who wanted to keep that Mandate for themselves instead of honoring the Mandate for Palestine as they had honored all 3 others.

Nakba is the shame the Christians and Muslims keep bringing on themselves for wanting to keep the Jews homeless, helpless and wondering from land to land without end.

No more.


Am Israel Chai

The People of Israel Live

 

[Sixties Fan]

It is certainly true that the Mufti was marginal to the “final solution.” Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was wrong to remark in 2018 that the Mufti “convinced” Hitler to annihilate the Jews.

However, there were instances when the Mufti, who was known to have visited Nazi camps and hobnobbed with Himmler and von Ribbentrop, proved even more extreme than the Nazis. In 1942, a plan to bring 10,000 Jewish children from Poland to Theresienstadt and exchange them for German civilian prisoners was dropped after fierce protests from the Mufti.

The children were sent to their deaths. The Mufti’s Muslim S.S. units in the former Yugoslavia murdered tens of thousands. According to the Mufti’s memoirs, Hitler had given an explicit undertaking to him at their famous meeting in November 1941 that he would be allowed to solve the Jewish problem. “The Jews are yours,” Hitler said.

The Mufti did not have the satisfaction of exterminating the Jews in his sphere of influence, but his alliance with the Nazis was far more ideological than pragmatic.

It is not the Mufti’s effect on the Nazis that Dayan ignores, but rather his impact on the Arabs. And here he had a massive effect, and—many would argue—still has. Wherever he went in the Arab world, the Mufti stirred up trouble against the local Jews. He was the driving force behind the pro-Nazi coup in Iraq leading to the Farhud massacre of hundreds of Jews in June 1941—proof-positive that anti-Zionism had spilled over into outright anti-Semitism.

Escaping to Berlin when he was Hitler’s lavishly funded wartime guest, the Mufti with a group of Arab exiles pumped out poisonous propaganda from the short-wave transmitter at Zeesen, fusing anti-Jewish verses from the Quran with modern anti-Jewish conspiracy theories.

(full article online )

The Nazi roots of Arab anti-Semitism must not be denied - JNS.org

It is not Haj Amin al-Husseini’s effect on the Nazis that Yad Vashem chair Dani Dayan ignores, but rather, the Mufti’s impact on the Arabs.

www.jns.org

 

[RoccoR]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
SUBTOPIC: Military Attacks
※→ P F Timore, et al,

​

Not so. The foreign Zionist colonial project had a full army and started conscripting troops in December of 1947.

(COMMENT)

Pre-Invasion, both the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish residents established armed organizations. The Arab Palestinians had the (as just one example) Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades. The Jewish Community had (for example) the Haganah.

Your quibbling here is a bit lit the pot calling the kettle → black.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Pre-Invasion, both the Arab Palestinians and the Jewish residents established armed organizations.

Very misleading statement, of course. Britain assisted the Zionists in creating a "state within a state." (Britain's term not mine.) This included a fully functioning military trained by the British and getting combat experience in WWll. They bagan conscripting troops in December of 1947. Golda Meir went to the US to mooch money for their upcoming war.

Britain eliminated the Palestinian leadership and disarmed the Palestinians by 1939. They only had a couple civilian militias with small arms.

The Zionists rolled their military over Palestine expelling over 300,000 Palestinians before the start of the 1948 war.

This was the Nakba that was different than the 1948 war.

 

[P F Tinmore]

These atrocities were not by Palestinians.

That's good to know.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Very misleading statement, of course. Britain assisted the Zionists in creating a "state within a state." (Britain's term not mine.) This included a fully functioning military trained by the British and getting combat experience in WWll. They bagan conscripting troops in December of 1947. Golda Meir went to the US to mooch money for their upcoming war.

Britain eliminated the Palestinian leadership and disarmed the Palestinians by 1939. They only had a couple civilian militias with small arms.

The Zionists rolled their military over Palestine expelling over 300,000 Palestinians before the start of the 1948 war.

This was the Nakba that was different than the 1948 war.

"State within a State"

Links, not words.

Facts, not words.

Try it.

 

[Sixties Fan]

These atrocities were not by Palestinians.

That's good to know.

What an amazingly poor knowledge of history you do have.

The Al Husseini clan had been in Palestine since the 11th Century.

They led the riots against the Jews in the 20th century.

Do the math between the 11th and 20th century.

 

[Sixties Fan]

These atrocities were not by Palestinians.

That's good to know.

And let us not forget the Al Husseini masterpiece in Iraq in 1941. The Fahrud

How many Jews did he enjoy seeing killed during those riots?

 

[rylah]

These atrocities were not by Palestinians.

That's good to know.

How can you know if you didn't read?

Let's take a look...

• 1517: 1st Safed Pogrom
• 1517: 1st Hebron Pogrom,
• 1577: Passover Massacre
• 1660: 2nd Safed Pogrom1834: 2nd Hebron Pogrom
• 1840: Damascus, ritual killings
• 1847: Dayr al-Qamar Pogrom
• 1847: Ethnic cleansing of Jews from Jerusalem
• 1848: 1st Damascus Pogrom
• 1850: 1st Aleppo Pogrom
• 1860: 2nd Damascus Pogrom
• 1862: 1st Beirut Pogrom1874: 2nd Beirut Pogrom
• 1875: 2nd Aleppo Pogrom
• 1882: Homs Massacre
• 1890, 3rd Damascus Pogrom
• 1920 - 1930: Arab riots (incl. "Palestine is Arab land and the Jews are our dogs")
• 1921: 1st Jaffa riots
• 1928: Jewish orphans sold into slavery and forced to convert to Islam by Muslim Brotherhood
• 1929: 3rd Hebron pogrom and 3rd Safed pogrom
• 1933: 2nd Jaffa riots
• 1934: 1st Farhud Massacres
• 1936: 3rd Jaffa riots
• 1936: 2nd Farhud Massacres1941: 3rd Farhud Massacres
• 1942: Jerusalem Grand Mufti openly collaborates with Hitler, plays a part in planning the Final Solution, sends Muslim SS divisions to round up Jews.

(QUESTION)

So if these atrocities weren't committed by them,
does it mean those who call themselves 'Palestinians' didn't live there?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Part 1

Pre-1948 Conditions in Palestine

A study of Palestine under Turkish rule reveals that already at the beginning of the 18th century, long before Jewish land purchases and large-scale Jewish immigration started, the position of the Palestinian fellah (peasant) had begun to deteriorate. The heavy burden of taxation, coming on top of chronic indebtedness to money-lenders, drove a growing number of farmers to place themselves under the protection of men of wealth or of the Moslem religious endowment fund (Waqf), with the result that they were eventually compelled to give up their title to the land, if not their actual residence upon and cultivation of it.

Until the passage of the Turkish Land Registry Law in 1858, there were no official deeds to attest to a man’s legal title to a parcel of land; tradition alone had to suffice to establish such title—and usually it did. And yet, the position of Palestine’s farmers was a precarious one, for there were constant blood-feuds between families, clans and entire villages, as well as periodic incursions by rapacious Bedouin tribes, such as the notorious Ben Sakk’r, of whom H. B. Tristram (The Land of Israel: A Journal of Travels in Palestine, Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, London, 1865) wrote that they “can muster 1,000 cavalry and always join their brethren when a raid or war is on the move. They have obtained their present possessions gradually and, in great measure, by driving out the fellahin (peasants), destroying their villages and reducing their rich corn-fields to pasturage.” (p. 488.)

Tristram goes on to present a remarkable and highly revealing description of conditions in Palestine on both sides of the Jordan River in the middle of the 19th century—a description that belies the Arab claim of a tranquil, normally developing Palestinian rural economy allegedly disrupted by Jewish immigration and settlement.

A few years ago, the whole Ghor was in the hands of the fellahin, and much of it cultivated for corn. Now the whole of it is in the hands of the Bedouin, who eschew all agriculture, except in a few spots cultivated here and there by their slaves; and with the Bedouin come lawlessness and the uprooting of all Turkish authority. No government is now acknowledged on the east side; and unless the Porte acts with greater firmness and caution than is his wont . . . Palestine will be desolated and given up to the nomads.

The same thing is now going on over the plain of Sharon, where, both in the north and south, land is going out of cultivation, and whole villages [are] rapidly disappearing from the face of the earth. Since the year 1838, no [fewer] than 20 villages have been thus erased from the map and the stationary population extirpated. Very rapidly the Bedouin are encroaching wherever horse can be ridden; and the Government is utterly powerless to resist them or to defend its subjects. (p. 490)

For descriptions of other parts of the country, we are indebted to the 1937 Report of the Palestine Royal Commission—though, for lack of space, we can quote but the briefest passages. In Chapter 9, para. 43 the Report quotes an eye-witness account of the condition of the Maritime Plain in 1913:

The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track suitable for transport by camels and carts . . . no orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached Yabna village. . . . Not in a single village in all this area was water used for irrigation. . . .Houses were all of mud. No windows were anywhere to be seen. . . .The ploughs used were of wood. . . . The yields were very poor. . . .The sanitary conditions in the village were horrible. Schools did not exist. . . . The rate of infant mortality was very high. . . .

The area north of Jaffa . . . consisted of two distinctive parts. . . . The eastern part, in the direction of the hills, resembled in culture that of the Gaza-Jaffa area. . . . The western part, towards the sea, was almost a desert. . . . The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many ruins of villages were scattered over the area, as owing to the prevalence of malaria, many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.

The Huleh basin, below the Syrian border, is described as “including a number of Arab villages and a large papyrus swamp draining south into Lake Huleh . . . a triangular strip of land some 44 sq. miles in area. . . . This tract is irrigated in a very haphazard manner by a network of small, primitive canals. It is, owing to over-irrigation, now the most malarious tract in all Palestine. It might become one of the most fertile.”

With regard to yet another region in Palestine—the Beisan (Beit Shean) area—we quote from the report of Mr. Lewis French, Director of Development appointed by the British Government in 1931:

We found it inhabited by fellahin who lived in mud hovels and suffered severely from the prevalent malaria. . . . Large areas of their lands were uncultivated and covered with weeds. There were no trees, no vegetables. The fellahin, if not themselves cattle thieves, were always ready to harbor these and other criminals. The individual plots of cultivation changed hands annually. There was little public security, and the fellahin’s lot was an alternation of pillage and blackmail by their neighbours, the Bedouin.

This, then, was the picture of Palestine in the closing decades of the 19th century and up to the First World War: a land that was overwhelmingly desert, with nomads continually encroaching on the settled areas and its farmers; a lack of elementary facilities and equipment; peasants wallowing in poverty, ignorance and disease, saddled with debts (interest rates at times were as high as 60 per cent) and threatened by warlike nomads or neighbouring clans. The result was a growing neglect of the soil and a flight from the villages, with a mounting concentration of lands in the hands of a small number of large landowners, frequently residing in such distant Arab capitals as Beirut and Damascus, Cairo and Kuwait. Here, in other words, was a social and economic order that had all the earmarks of a medieval feudal society.

Land Ownership in Palestine, 1880–1948 | survival

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