The Official Zimmerman Trial Verdict Thread

[R.D.]

Yep and many many people on both sides of the race spectrum have fallen into that trap....including 90 percent of the people in this forum.

There might be 10 percent of this forum that can think objectively, imo. Outside of that, there is a huge bias...both sides.

I hope you're not including yourself in that 10%. I have pointed out the issues again and again. You seem to plug your ears and say nah nah nah I can't hear you.

The only relevant issue is whether Zimmerman was reasonably in fear of his life at the time he shot Martin. Period.

I definitely put myself in that 10 percent...actually the number is probably smaller....closer to 1-5 percent...I was being nice.

You could be there, but your inability to see any fault with GZ when there were obvious anc clear mistakes, suggest you have a huge bias. GZ gooooood....trayvon....baaaaaaad.

GZ wasnt a pro...to think that he did everything correct that night and doesnt hold some responsibility is just illogical and dismissive to me. I can see about 10 things he did to put himself in that situation.

I see the good and bad of both sides...its just more fun. One sided is boring to me.

Blaming the victim for being attacked in the same breath blaming him for defending off the attack.

You're not objective, you're simply playing the part of contrarian because it takes less effort than actually having a position.

 

[25Caliber]

You can never get mad in this forum...too many adults being downright hilarious..

 

[JimBowie1958]

[MENTION=20450]MarcATL[/MENTION]

Did you respond to my answer to your question?
If, so, apologies in advance and I'll dig around some more.

If not, please do.
TIA

Both Defense and Prosecution were involved in choosing the jury.

Hopefully, you are not accusing the Prosecution of being racist.

The tactic used by the defense was to discredit her testimony. The tactic used had to do with her prior inconsistent taped interview and her deposition among other things.

Rachel Jeantel Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman: Prosecution Witness Tweets About Drunk Driving | Breaking News for Black America

Rachel Jeantel George Zimmerman: Trayvon Martin?s Friend Testifies | Breaking News for Black America

For those of us who have had the misfortune of being forced to put black people on the stand for the defense, Jeantel's behavior and demeanor is all too common. It is the reason, this behavior is the very reason why an innocent black man is more likely to go to jail than an innocent white man.

I have seen it a thousand times, unfortunately mostly to those who were truly, truly innocent.

The cultural barrier between educated middle class people (of all races) and the illiterate behavior of what many call the welfare subculture (again of all races) makes these people look like they are lying, being evasive, and/or too stupid to be reliable when it is not always the case, probably most often not the case.

But the prosecutors do some gamesmanship to get a lot of 'confessions' like writing up a laundry list of charges and offering to reduce them down to a few if the person 'confesses' guilty or not. Its in the interest of saving the court time and expenses, not in achieving a just outcome. Blacks have had to deal with this crap for centuries, so I cannot be astonished if a lot of them see the system as a threat in and of itself, and has no trust in any part of it in any phase or process.

Maybe that is why Holder said that the Constitution does not promise justice but only due process?

 

[Gracie]

I think the whole mess got out of hand and neither one planned on death happening at their stupidity. With that said...Trayvon cannot be punished for his idiocy...he's dead. Zimmerman is not dead. I don't think he planned to kill Martin at all. So...I call it involitary manslaughter and some time in prison for what he did. Not life.

If you are saying Tevon had no intentions on actually killing Zimmerman, why is Zimmerman allowed to kill him for a pop in the nose?

Anyone home, McFly? I said zimmerman was an idiot himself and should have some form of punishment for BEING an idiot. Pay 'tention, zona.
Those two men had no intention of going out that night to kill someone. Shit happens. It happened. One is dead. The other is not but is just as liable of idiocy as the dead one. Period.

 

[Ernie S.]

His nose looks broke to me or damage severely. Plus the black eyes the next day suggest being hit in the nose pretty hard.

Yeah, well I would have hit him pretty hard too if he was following me around in the dark and when I asked him what he wanted he reached for his gun.

I would have hit him with all my might and tried to incapacitate him so he couldn't hurt me.

Zimmerman's injuries could easily be viewed as evidence that Martin was trying to defend himself.

A rather biased assumption, I'd say. It seems to me that if Zimmerman wanted to harm Martin, he wouldn't have the police on the way and he would have simply shot the boy. It seems rather foolish to assault someone AFTER you have called the cops.
Conversely, Martin didn't know the police were on the way. He would be more likely to expect he would get away with it.
It just makes sense to anyone with a basic grasp of logic.

 

[25Caliber]

I hope you're not including yourself in that 10%. I have pointed out the issues again and again. You seem to plug your ears and say nah nah nah I can't hear you.

The only relevant issue is whether Zimmerman was reasonably in fear of his life at the time he shot Martin. Period.

I definitely put myself in that 10 percent...actually the number is probably smaller....closer to 1-5 percent...I was being nice.

You could be there, but your inability to see any fault with GZ when there were obvious anc clear mistakes, suggest you have a huge bias. GZ gooooood....trayvon....baaaaaaad.

GZ wasnt a pro...to think that he did everything correct that night and doesnt hold some responsibility is just illogical and dismissive to me. I can see about 10 things he did to put himself in that situation.

I see the good and bad of both sides...its just more fun. One sided is boring to me.

Blaming the victim for being attacked in the same breath blaming him for defending off the attack.

You're not objective, you're simply playing the part of contrarian because it takes less effort than actually having a position.

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

 

[25Caliber]

His nose looks broke to me or damage severely. Plus the black eyes the next day suggest being hit in the nose pretty hard.

Yeah, well I would have hit him pretty hard too if he was following me around in the dark and when I asked him what he wanted he reached for his gun.

I would have hit him with all my might and tried to incapacitate him so he couldn't hurt me.

Zimmerman's injuries could easily be viewed as evidence that Martin was trying to defend himself.

A rather biased assumption, I'd say. It seems to me that if Zimmerman wanted to harm Martin, he wouldn't have the police on the way and he would have simply shot the boy. It seems rather foolish to assault someone AFTER you have called the cops.
Conversely, Martin didn't know the police were on the way. He would be more likely to expect he would get away with it.
It just makes sense to anyone with a basic grasp of logic.

Not really if you think about it...not if he sees a gun in that holster...especially knowing that GZ has already reached there very early when just asked a question.

Actually a very logical assumption. If you were fighting someone following you, and you saw a gun and the guy reaching for it during the struggle...what would you do? Probably keep punching?

And this is not speculation on my part...GZ says the gun was exposed and admits going for it. You certainly wouldnt stop punching if you saw him going for it.

 

[The Rabbi]

Yep and many many people on both sides of the race spectrum have fallen into that trap....including 90 percent of the people in this forum.

There might be 10 percent of this forum that can think objectively, imo. Outside of that, there is a huge bias...both sides.

I hope you're not including yourself in that 10%. I have pointed out the issues again and again. You seem to plug your ears and say nah nah nah I can't hear you.

The only relevant issue is whether Zimmerman was reasonably in fear of his life at the time he shot Martin. Period.

I definitely put myself in that 10 percent...actually the number is probably smaller....closer to 1-5 percent...I was being nice.

You could be there, but your inability to see any fault with GZ when there were obvious anc clear mistakes, suggest you have a huge bias. GZ gooooood....trayvon....baaaaaaad.

GZ wasnt a pro...to think that he did everything correct that night and doesnt hold some responsibility is just illogical and dismissive to me. I can see about 10 things he did to put himself in that situation.

I see the good and bad of both sides...its just more fun. One sided is boring to me.

It isn't that Zimmerman did everything perfectly. He didnt. But it doesn't matter. This isn't a basketball match with points scored. It is a legal case that turns on facts and law. The law is that Zimmerman was justified in using deadly force if he was reasonably in fear of death or severe bodily harm. I believe the facts as now known indicate he was and therefore justified.
You seem to think that because his perfomance wasn't flawless he was somehow at fault. I dont know where you ever learned that but you need to unlearn it because that isnt self defense law.

 

[25Caliber]

I think the whole mess got out of hand and neither one planned on death happening at their stupidity. With that said...Trayvon cannot be punished for his idiocy...he's dead. Zimmerman is not dead. I don't think he planned to kill Martin at all. So...I call it involitary manslaughter and some time in prison for what he did. Not life.

If you are saying Tevon had no intentions on actually killing Zimmerman, why is Zimmerman allowed to kill him for a pop in the nose?

Anyone home, McFly? I said zimmerman was an idiot himself and should have some form of punishment for BEING an idiot. Pay 'tention, zona.
Those two men had no intention of going out that night to kill someone. Shit happens. It happened. One is dead. The other is not but is just as liable of idiocy as the dead one. Period.

Excellent post. She gets it.

 

[The Rabbi]

I definitely put myself in that 10 percent...actually the number is probably smaller....closer to 1-5 percent...I was being nice.

You could be there, but your inability to see any fault with GZ when there were obvious anc clear mistakes, suggest you have a huge bias. GZ gooooood....trayvon....baaaaaaad.

GZ wasnt a pro...to think that he did everything correct that night and doesnt hold some responsibility is just illogical and dismissive to me. I can see about 10 things he did to put himself in that situation.

I see the good and bad of both sides...its just more fun. One sided is boring to me.

Blaming the victim for being attacked in the same breath blaming him for defending off the attack.

You're not objective, you're simply playing the part of contrarian because it takes less effort than actually having a position.

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

So because Zimmerman committed a legal act he should be judged guilty? WTF?
If someone were following me I would run as fast as I could in the opposite direction. I wouldn't really care whether the person was really following me or not.
Your attempt to be "open minded" has let your brains drop out.

 

[Gracie]

Moron Rachel stated that she and her friends often did 3 way calls and just jabbered about all topics...including calling whites Cracka's. So..I am presuming that when he was on the phone with her, he was also either on speaker phone so others could hear or they were on the 3 way system. Regardless, he was telling them about the creepy ass cracker following him. Now, from Moron Rachel's own admission and Martin's propensity to be a wannabe gangbanger, he thought he would impress his friends on the phone and let them hear him go thump a cracka for following him. Problem is...cracka had a gun. I don't think Martin intentionally decided to KILL zimmerman any more than zimmerman intended to KILL martin. It just happened. Instead of getting kudos from pals for beating up a cracka, he got his ass shot by the cracka. So Moron Rachel had to state what the convo was to cover whatever he was saying to impress his buds. According to her, if you could make out her mumbles between the 'tude and eye rolls, she said he was in a rush and would call her back. He never did. Cuz he be daid. Maybe it was a normal thing to act like an idiot for them, but they didn't count on a gun, either. And zimmerman with his actions shows he was doing what he thought was right, being in a NWP. He did everything proper..except follow the guy which is not illegal but still...he was feeling pretty uppity since he was packin'. When the guy he was following turned the tables, he freaked out. Pulled the gun out. Shot the guy. Was it planned in advance? No. Just flat out stupidity on both their parts.

 

[Sarah G]

I definitely put myself in that 10 percent...actually the number is probably smaller....closer to 1-5 percent...I was being nice.

You could be there, but your inability to see any fault with GZ when there were obvious anc clear mistakes, suggest you have a huge bias. GZ gooooood....trayvon....baaaaaaad.

GZ wasnt a pro...to think that he did everything correct that night and doesnt hold some responsibility is just illogical and dismissive to me. I can see about 10 things he did to put himself in that situation.

I see the good and bad of both sides...its just more fun. One sided is boring to me.

Blaming the victim for being attacked in the same breath blaming him for defending off the attack.

You're not objective, you're simply playing the part of contrarian because it takes less effort than actually having a position.

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

Wait, now you're calling George Zimmerman the victim? You all are getting really batshit crazy.

 

[Ernie S.]

His nose looks broke to me or damage severely. Plus the black eyes the next day suggest being hit in the nose pretty hard.

Yeah, well I would have hit him pretty hard too if he was following me around in the dark and when I asked him what he wanted he reached for his gun.

I would have hit him with all my might and tried to incapacitate him so he couldn't hurt me.

Zimmerman's injuries could easily be viewed as evidence that Martin was trying to defend himself.

I agree...grabbing or reaching for something in the dark when asked why you are following could be a big problem...and it was. The prosecution is making a huge mistake not addressing this...it is only us in here discussing the reaching.

The prosecution knows what it is doing, man. It's not there first rodeo. If they thought they could score points with it, they would have brought it up.

From my observation, Zimmerman is left handed. I saw him taking notes. The officer that disarmed him said he carried his KelTek on his right side meaning he had to reach across his body to get to the gun and the grip would be facing forward. This practice is common for southpaws because left handed holsters are rarely stocked in gun shops.
I doubt that anyone would reach across their body to get to their phone. I carry mine in my left rear pocket. I retrieve it with my left hand. How about the rest of you? Do you reach across your body to get to your sail foam?

 

[ScienceRocks]

When you're getting your head beat into the ground=victim. In florida you can use deadly force when you're getting killed.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I definitely put myself in that 10 percent...actually the number is probably smaller....closer to 1-5 percent...I was being nice.

You could be there, but your inability to see any fault with GZ when there were obvious anc clear mistakes, suggest you have a huge bias. GZ gooooood....trayvon....baaaaaaad.

GZ wasnt a pro...to think that he did everything correct that night and doesnt hold some responsibility is just illogical and dismissive to me. I can see about 10 things he did to put himself in that situation.

I see the good and bad of both sides...its just more fun. One sided is boring to me.

Blaming the victim for being attacked in the same breath blaming him for defending off the attack.

You're not objective, you're simply playing the part of contrarian because it takes less effort than actually having a position.

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

You keep claiming Zimmerman reached for something,I haven't seen that claimed anywhere else, where are you getting that from?

 

[testarosa]

If you are saying Tevon had no intentions on actually killing Zimmerman, why is Zimmerman allowed to kill him for a pop in the nose?

Anyone home, McFly? I said zimmerman was an idiot himself and should have some form of punishment for BEING an idiot. Pay 'tention, zona.
Those two men had no intention of going out that night to kill someone. Shit happens. It happened. One is dead. The other is not but is just as liable of idiocy as the dead one. Period.

b

Excellent post. She gets it.

Gracie? Gracie gets everything.

 

[Ernie S.]

Yeah, well I would have hit him pretty hard too if he was following me around in the dark and when I asked him what he wanted he reached for his gun.

I would have hit him with all my might and tried to incapacitate him so he couldn't hurt me.

Zimmerman's injuries could easily be viewed as evidence that Martin was trying to defend himself.

kooshdouche you sound ridiculous. That's fair enough. You ARE ridiculous.

If you would punch someone in the nose because he was reaching for a cell phone, then you would probably get the ass kicking yourself.

Or, assuming you are a woman, maybe the person you came up to would refrain from knocking you out.

But you CERTAINLY wouldn't be busting his nose for reaching for a cell phone and you wouldn't have the ability to get on top of him and pummel his head onto the pavement.

So stop your mindless yammering. You truly do sound like a moron. Again. It's fair. You clearly ARE a moron. But there's no need for you to keep proving it.

Trayvon didnt know what he was reaching for...and there was no cell phone there btw...but there was a pistol. Im not convinced at all that GZ was reaching for a phone that wasnt there. But I can see why GZ would state that is what he was reaching for instead of a gun.

Fact is he reached...fact is there was no cell phone there...fact is there was a gun there. So if Trayvon was suspecting he may be reaching for a weapon of some sort...he would have been correct...the gun was holstered in the area he was reaching.

You know that he was reaching for a phone, because GZ said so after the fact...trayvon didnt have the privilege of knowing that.

Again, its like watching poker on tv and seeing all the cards and yelling at the bet that makes no sense because we can see the guy holding pocket aces. The guy betting doesnt see the pocket aces...he thinks hes making a good bet with his pocket kings.

I've seen pocket kings beat pocket aces many times. My game does pay the big blind to anyone that gets aces busted.

 

[The Rabbi]

Blaming the victim for being attacked in the same breath blaming him for defending off the attack.

You're not objective, you're simply playing the part of contrarian because it takes less effort than actually having a position.

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

Wait, now you're calling George Zimmerman the victim? You all are getting really batshit crazy.

No, honey. You're the batshit crazy one. Zimmerman acted in self defense to thwart a threat to his life. That makes him the victim. Trayvon was the aggressor. No wonder you're consistently wrong.

 

[25Caliber]

Yeah, well I would have hit him pretty hard too if he was following me around in the dark and when I asked him what he wanted he reached for his gun.

I would have hit him with all my might and tried to incapacitate him so he couldn't hurt me.

Zimmerman's injuries could easily be viewed as evidence that Martin was trying to defend himself.

I agree...grabbing or reaching for something in the dark when asked why you are following could be a big problem...and it was. The prosecution is making a huge mistake not addressing this...it is only us in here discussing the reaching.

The prosecution knows what it is doing, man. It's not there first rodeo. If they thought they could score points with it, they would have brought it up.

From my observation, Zimmerman is left handed. I saw him taking notes. The officer that disarmed him said he carried his KelTek on his right side meaning he had to reach across his body to get to the gun and the grip would be facing forward. This practice is common for southpaws because left handed holsters are rarely stocked in gun shops.
I doubt that anyone would reach across their body to get to their phone. I carry mine in my left rear pocket. I retrieve it with my left hand. How about the rest of you? Do you reach across your body to get to your sail foam?

I am doubting the competence and motive of the prosecution team...I have already expressed that. They are taking the pressure off of them and passing the buck to 6 female jurors...monkey is off their back and on the jurors...we tried him like you wanted and they let him off...brilliant!

You make a great point about being left handed. No I would not reach across my body.

Do we know what hand GZ fired his gun with?

Good points, ernie...I definitely need to consider the southpaw thing. I will look into it for sure.

 

[The Rabbi]

Blaming the victim for being attacked in the same breath blaming him for defending off the attack.

You're not objective, you're simply playing the part of contrarian because it takes less effort than actually having a position.

Nope...i dont blame the victim for defending himself at all. I blame the victim for being on that sidewalk following a teen in the dark and rain holding a flashlight and holstering a pistol.

Lets think about this...you pack a pistol because you think you may need it. So why put yourself in a situation where you very well may need to use it. GZ increased the odds of this possibility by following a teen in the dark...all im saying. Not illegal, but not smart and against the recommendation of law enforcement for that very reason.

Follow me like GZ was and you find yourself in the same situation...people dont like being followed in the dark...period....some will run home and some may ask the person why they are being followed. Go reaching for something at that exact moment and who knows how one person will act from another.

Of course everyone in here in hindsight would have done the absolute correct thing...lol. In hindsight of course.

Youre a grown adult...a man...some creep is following you in the dark and rain...and you take off running for your house...lmao....most would, certainly I would turn around and go hey dude wtf is your problem?

You keep claiming Zimmerman reached for something,I haven't seen that claimed anywhere else, where are you getting that from?

He made it up. 25 caliber likes to imagine what Trayvon was thinking, what Trayvon saw, etc. If 25 had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.