The only people who are LOSING HEALTH INSURANCE are the ones who CHOSE TO NOT BUY IT.

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So why do I have to subsidies you?

Please explain...

Because we will then do the same for you, when you need it. Because lowering the cost of health insurance (by expanding the risk pool to include more investors) will make for a morenstable economy and a faster growimg economy, as the inefficient system we have now will be better.

Now, if you dont think it's worth it, say so. No shame in that, when it comes from a place of beong informed about both the costs and benefits.

 

[jon_berzerk]

premiums have skyrocketed under obamacare

Shameless lie. Premiums have risen more slowly since the passing of the ACA than they did previously.

bs

You're wrong, and you literally pulled your lie out of your ass and hoped it was true.

So all these news stories from average Joe's you call them liars after Obama care was passed ..why?


You do know blue Cross had $100 dollar a month plans before Obama care right.?

It was for catastrophic health care ..


With must cheaper deductibles..


And that's all Obama Care is now, with much higher premimums and higher deductibles..

yup

liars need to lie

to push the agenda

telling the truth only hurts them

 

[JQPublic1]

You're smarter than the CBO?
That's awesome!
GOP Tax Plan Would Still Leave 13 Million Without Health Insurance, CBO Says

You are aware they can still buy insurance, correct? They just don't pay a penalty if they decide they don't want to buy insurance. In short, their freedom of choice has been restored.

The poor can't afford to buy insurance without the subsidies. Funding for the subsidies. comes from mandating that those who don't have insurance participate. That includes millenials who can afford it but think they do not need it. But when an accident or illness puts them in the ER they can't pay the bill. Some of the cost is passed on to the taxpayers but the hospital takes a financial hit too. Although the stupid uninsured MF who didn't forsee his trip to the hospital gets top notch treatment for free...his credit rating is ruined. Too bad the hospitals and the government doesn't sue those dumb MFs.
That mandate was the best thing since apple pie.

 

[JQPublic1]

You're smarter than the CBO?
That's awesome!
GOP Tax Plan Would Still Leave 13 Million Without Health Insurance, CBO Says

You are aware they can still buy insurance, correct? They just don't pay a penalty if they decide they don't want to buy insurance. In short, their freedom of choice has been restored.

The poor can't afford to buy insurance without the subsidies. Funding for the subsidies. comes from mandating that those who don't have insurance participate. That includes millenials who can afford it but think they do not need it. But when an accident or illness puts them in the ER they can't pay the bill. Some of the cost is passed on to the taxpayers but the hospital takes a financial hit too. Although the stupid uninsured MF who didn't forsee his trip to the hospital gets top notch treatment for free...his credit rating is ruined. Too bad the hospitals and the government doesn't sue those dumb MFs.
That mandate was the best thing since apple pie.

I'm not finished. Without Obamacare and. Subsidized insurance., it ought to be readily apparent that millions of people who couldn't otherwise afford health insurance will lose what they had under the PPACA. The impoverished uninsured will go back to the ER and we're back to the old system.

 

[Markle]

Now if we can only get rid of the car insurance mandate..I am tired of paying for crappy ass drivers..

Simple, don't drive. Problem solved!

 

[Markle]

Shameless lie. Premiums have risen more slowly since the passing of the ACA than they did previously.

Were your premiums reduced by $2,500 per year?

 

[Care4all]

The 13.5 million w/o insurance estimate comes mostly from EMPLOYERS cutting the benefit that they are no longer mandated to cover with health insurance.... their employees....

and NOT from individuals choosing not to have health insurance anymore....

 

[dblack]

I’m glad people are no longer feeling pressured into buying that BS with the threat of fines. It was the most ridiculous and insane crap I’ve ever seen from our government.

Now if we can only get rid of the car insurance mandate..I am tired of paying for crappy ass drivers..

We should. It's the same mistake, the same abuse of state power.

 

[Mac1958]

We don't need a safety net.

But as an advanced society, we recognize that it's the right thing to do.

At least most of us do.

Then it shouldn't be a problem to create one without coercive mandates, eh?

Paying into Medicare is a mandate. Paying for Medicare Part B if you want a Supplement or a Medicare Advantage Plan is mandate.

I'd expand that whole system to all. An excellent blend of public safety net and dynamic free market competition and innovation.

So it depends on the nature of the mandate.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Like the COTUS? Not wanting the govt to FORCE people to purchase a for profit product? Shit like that?

Shit like having a cohesive, affordable, efficient, effective health care system that combines the best of a foundational public safety net and the best of dynamic free market competition.

Shit like admitting that we all have to pay more for our own care when those who can't afford it access far less preventive and diagnostic services, waiting until their problems are far worse and more costly.

Shit like seeing that we have SEVEN (7) different delivery/payment systems, none of which communicate directly each other, an efficiency so glaring and profound as to be a national embarrassment. Or at least it would be if people knew more.

Shit like taking a massive cost/administrative monkey off the backs of American employers by instead having individual and portable plans that have nothing to do with employment and don't force people to stay employed for coverage.

Yeah, that kinda shit.
.

You lost me at public safety net.
Govt IS the problem.
We wont see eye to eye on this because you have faith in our failure of a govt and its bureaucracy

Well, that's the problem. You're starting from "government is the problem" and trying to work backwards.

I made four specific points there. We can ignore them for ideological reasons if we want, I just don't want to.
.

hey genius, faith in a failure is part of YOUR ideology...
What sane responsible person wouldnt work back? Why would i vouch for giving the govt MORE power when all they do is fuck shit up? Seems completely stupid

A very binary view. Which is where the GOP is stuck right now.
.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Most people that are losing it don't have the money to choose between your greed based dogshit and food. Old people, sick people, disabled people and the working poor.

It isn't like your rich ass has ever thought outside of your let them eat cake little world.

 

[Rustic]

Most people that are losing it don't have the money to choose between your greed based dogshit and food. Old people, sick people, disabled people and the working poor.

It isn't like your rich ass has ever thought outside of your let them eat cake little world.

Why do you want to force people you disagree with into your collective? Is it a control thing? Sounds like it

 

[ScienceRocks]

The 13.5 million w/o insurance estimate comes mostly from EMPLOYERS cutting the benefit that they are no longer mandated to cover with health insurance.... their employees....

and NOT from individuals choosing not to have health insurance anymore....

Yep,

Most employers are so greed driven that they simply don't give a damn about their workers. Sadly, we have millions of retarded conservatives with no clue making it easy for these pieces of shit to get away with it.

 

[Rustic]

The 13.5 million w/o insurance estimate comes mostly from EMPLOYERS cutting the benefit that they are no longer mandated to cover with health insurance.... their employees....

and NOT from individuals choosing not to have health insurance anymore....

Yep,

Most employers are so greed driven that they simply don't give a damn about their workers. Sadly, we have millions of retarded conservatives with no clue making it easy for these pieces of shit to get away with it.

Millions of people want nothing to do with any type of insurance, insurance rubs them the wrong way.
Being in a socialist society is not living, it’s just existing

 

[Mac1958]

Like the COTUS? Not wanting the govt to FORCE people to purchase a for profit product? Shit like that?

Shit like having a cohesive, affordable, efficient, effective health care system that combines the best of a foundational public safety net and the best of dynamic free market competition.

Shit like admitting that we all have to pay more for our own care when those who can't afford it access far less preventive and diagnostic services, waiting until their problems are far worse and more costly.

Shit like seeing that we have SEVEN (7) different delivery/payment systems, none of which communicate directly each other, an efficiency so glaring and profound as to be a national embarrassment. Or at least it would be if people knew more.

Shit like taking a massive cost/administrative monkey off the backs of American employers by instead having individual and portable plans that have nothing to do with employment and don't force people to stay employed for coverage.

Yeah, that kinda shit.
.

Why do we need a safety net? Insurance is a safety plan, isn't it?

How about a system where you pay your health care bills and I pay mine and we let it go at that? Why should anybody be guarantee heath care simply because they are alive? Somebody else has to pay for it and that is not right.

We don't need a safety net.

But as an advanced society, we recognize that it's the right thing to do.

At least most of us do.
.

Sure, as soon as you guarantee that it's beneficial to society and isn't being abused.

Lets put a limit on it all, welfare, health insurance subsidies, all of it. Lifetime limit that shit and I'll happily contribute to such things. Without such assurances though you're just paying into a black hole of zero beneficial returns - IE wasting money. I'm not "greedy" I just abhor wasting money; it's why I don't rent an apartment/house, it's why I don't lease cars, it's why I pay for shit with cash instead of on credit, and it's why I will /never/ pay for health insurance.

Everything is abused, whether it's public or private. There is government abuse, there is free market abuse. Asking for "guarantees" against that is pointless.

And you're against waste? Did you know that we currently have SEVEN (7) different delivery payment systems in this country, NONE of which works directly with the other? Individual health, group health, VA, Medicare, Medicaid, Workers Comp and Indigent. That insanity really makes sense to you, and you're worried about "waste"? The GOP has done NOTHING to address that. And MOST people don't even KNOW it, because MOST people have ZERO (0) knowledge of our health care "system". All they know is their partisan ideology and what it tells them to believe.

The Medicare/Medicare Supplement/Medicare Advantage system is already up and running, it's efficient, it's popular, and it's an excellent blend of a public foundation and free market competition and innovation. The problem is, VERY FEW people don't know how it works, because their TOP priority is their partisan political ideology.
.

 

[Mac1958]

you are confused. It is not the right thing for the filthy ass government to steal money from the people that earn the money and give it to the welfare queens that didn't earn it.

More shallow, binary thinking. Just as shallow and binary as someone saying "corporations are evil".

Life is just a bit more complicated than that.
.

 

[Mac1958]

It's pretty clear that many who are arguing about our health care delivery/payment system have little knowledge of how it works.

 

[initforme]

If those that choose no insurance get sick, should they be allowed to be treated and if so who pays?

 

[Flash]

you are confused. It is not the right thing for the filthy ass government to steal money from the people that earn the money and give it to the welfare queens that didn't earn it.

More shallow, binary thinking. Just as shallow and binary as someone saying "corporations are evil".

Life is just a bit more complicated than that.
.

Democracy is a terrible form of government when it doesn't protect individual liberties and allows the majority to steal from the minority. Most of the time it isn't even a majority but a plurality.

It is not complicated to understand that thievery is thievery no matter if it is an asshole that breaks into your home or an asshole that elects a politician to steal your money on their behalf.

 

[TNHarley]

you are confused. It is not the right thing for the filthy ass government to steal money from the people that earn the money and give it to the welfare queens that didn't earn it.

More shallow, binary thinking. Just as shallow and binary as someone saying "corporations are evil".

Life is just a bit more complicated than that.
.

Why the self righteousness? The argument against it is just as logical and reasonable as being for it.
Too bad you are letting ideology get in the way of seeing that