The Poisoning of Flint, MI.

[NYcarbineer]

The Right is trying to pin the blame on the EPA, of course,

ironically being an agency that wouldn't even exist if the Right had its way.

There will be plenty of blame to go around, and some of it will end up on the Governor's lap, and rightfully so.

But calling for his resignation and claiming he poisoned a bunch of children either through outright neglect or willful ignorance is partisan and ludicrous.

There will be an investigation, and more than likely the culprit will be a combination of bureaucratic red tape and overall lethargy.

And yet the buck stops at the desk of Scott. What he knew and when may very well have been redacted from the e-mails he will release. BUT when more than one person knows the details of a secret, it usually comes out.

I hope Michael Moore will lead in finding that person or the person's who know the truth. What a movie that would be.

And if the truth turns out that the problem is the intricacies of the bureaucracy surrounding regulations at the State and Federal level? The layers and layers of checks and paperwork and approvals needed to get anything done that progressives and Statists love so well?

That's rich. If you had your way there would be no regulation of water quality at any level of government.

Bullshit. I work in water and wastewater quality, and government oversight is needed. What is not needed are regulations that look like they were written by lawyers and bugs and bunny environmental activists, instead of by people who actually understand the goals of treatment.

lol, so day by day I'm breaking down your anti-government bullshit.

And quite easily so.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Since when is the state responsible for local drinking water?

Since Rome, dude. Where the fuck have you been?

I'm in Westchester County NY and our water is from the local district, nothing to do with Rome or FDR

You've never heard of NY's DEC?

lol, big surprise.

It's like asking, have you heard of Navy Seals because I don't get my water from them either
Very familiar with them. For reason I can't begin to understand, they now carry firearms. Armed DEP agents.

 

[SwimExpert]

Since when is the state responsible for local drinking water?

Since Rome, dude. Where the fuck have you been?

I'm in Westchester County NY and our water is from the local district, nothing to do with Rome or FDR

The "local district" is nothing more than an extension of the state.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Rachel Maddow should be charged with poisoning people with hate. Why anyone listens to that ugly dyke is beyond me.

Another ridiculous attempt to deflect by a ridiculous partisan hack.

==========
I have come to the conclusion that most of the posts on here and on Disqus come from the Koch phone bank in Vegas where there are paid posters for the Republican Party.

All they do all day / night is post the party line on forums and try to smear liberals.

I disagree. The Koch Brother's can afford to pay for intelligent, competent shills, those who post here are neither intelligent nor competent.

 

[bucs90]

I admit...haven't read up on this much so I don't know. I've seen it's becoming a major political hot potato.

Some links please to clarify if you have them to things I've heard:

1. Who decided to switch the water supply....the governor or the city manager?
2. Is the water poisoned from the source or did the lead pipes corrode and thus cause the contamination? 2b. Was there any water treatment to make is safe that was skipped?

 

[tinydancer]

I admit...haven't read up on this much so I don't know. I've seen it's becoming a major political hot potato.

Some links please to clarify if you have them to things I've heard:

1. Who decided to switch the water supply....the governor or the city manager?
2. Is the water poisoned from the source or did the lead pipes corrode and thus cause the contamination? 2b. Was there any water treatment to make is safe that was skipped?

Governor had nothing to do with the insane switch. Part 2. Both.

Here's the kicker. Gee I'll try to find the link I had. When the problems first were flagged, they were dismissed by the health authorities. Those are the people that really need to be wearing orange in the near future.

 

[tinydancer]

Check this out. This is the real deal on this story.

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

December 21, 2015 Siddhartha Roy Articles
After missing warning signs of spiking childhood lead poisoning that occurred few months after switching to a corrosive river water source in 2014, outside pressure forced officials at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) to closely scrutinize their data in July 2015. They discovered scientifically conclusive evidence of an anomalous increase in childhood lead poisoning in summer 2014 immediately after the switch in water sources, but stood by silently as Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) officials repeatedly and falsely stated that no spike in blood lead levels (BLL) of children had occurred. DHHS employees later stonewalled efforts by outside researchers who questioned MDEQ statements and withheld damning documents but released incomplete data suggesting that there were no problems — DHHS officials ultimately fessed up only after incidence of childhood lead poisoning skyrocketed above 10% in the two Flint zip codes with highest water lead risk during summer 2015!

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

 

[tinydancer]

This part is just unreal. I can't believe the response to this one woman's concern for her child. The nurse said he's barely lead poisoned.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"DHHS’ engagement in the Flint water crisis, started in early 2015 with two phone calls from Lee-Anne Walters to a state lead poisoning nurse in Lansing identified only as “Karen.” When asked about the phone call last night, Walters said she was at first expressing concern over high lead in water measurements in Flint, but on the second call she was in tears because her son’s blood lead had increased to 6.5 ug/dL.


According to Walters, “Karen” stated that “He is barely lead poisoned. If CDC had not changed their lead poisoning standard from 10 down to 5, we would not be having this conversation.” Angry, Walters protested that Karen was minimizing the problem, at which point “Karen” cut her off and said “I am working with kids in their 40’s and 50’s. It is just a few IQ points…it is not the end of the world.” FOIA e-mails do reveal a “Karen” at DHHS who acknowledged receiving phone calls on the dates Walters called (the caller’s name is redacted in the FOIA), but elsewhere this person reveals to colleagues that the last time she actually worked with a child who had blood lead above 45 ug/dL was in 2009."

Michigan Health Department Hid Evidence of Health Harm Due to Lead Contaminated Water: Allowed False Public Assurances by MDEQ and Stonewalled Outside Researchers

 

[tinydancer]

The libs are making hay of this because they want to get rid of Snyder not that they ever gave a rat's ass about the people of Flint. Turning this issue into a political game one more time.

Cripes they make me want to bazooka barf with this kind of bullshit that they pull.

Remember when they blamed Governor Snyder who has just been elected for freaking Detroit's bankruptcy. Sheesh.

 

[cnm]

Austerity measures put in place by Snyder meant $100/day was too much to pay to keep safer water for a population of 100,000 odd.

 

[tinydancer]

Austerity measures put in place by Snyder meant $100/day was too much to pay to keep safer water for a population of 100,000 odd.

Flint City Council were the ones that decided to switch from Detroit Water and Sewage to Flint River and then to Karegondi Water Authority. Vote was 7 to 1.

Now I realize you're a partisan hack who only wants to blame a Republican but the truth is this was the City Council's decision. And trust me. Flint's City Council is note composed of raging Republicans.

 

[tinydancer]

By the way, this water was to have been properly treated. Was Governor Snyder responsible for the lack of treatment?

No. Nor was the Mayor of Flint. Nor was any member of the City Council.

 

[tinydancer]

I really want to stress I want to see heads roll on this. I've been a mega water conservationist for years and am now working with others on forcing my government to remove boil water advisories on First Nations by giving them proper drinking water facilities. Going to be a big deal in the up coming election.

So please keep that in mind.

Everyone should stop playing politics with this. I personally think not even the City Council should be blamed. They entered into this agreement in good faith. They're just city council members for heaven's sake.

They trusted others as well they should to treat the water properly and keep their residents safe.

Even though residents were desperately worried and voicing their concerns the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality kept insisting the water was safe to drink.

If you pay attention to how this all unfolded you can see where people hid and misled all to cover their asses. Lying on a monumental industrial freaking scale. Just unreal.

I've got tons more on this but to make it short and sweet this is just the tip of the iceberg. Easy reading just from wiki.

Aye carumba check this out.

"While the local outcry about Flint water quality was growing in early 2015, Flint water officials filed papers with state regulators purporting to show that "tests at Flint's water treatment plant had detected no lead and testing in homes had registered lead at acceptable levels."

The documents falsely claim that the city had tested tap water from homes with lead service lines, and therefore the highest lead-poisoning risks; in reality; the city does not know the locations of lead service lines, which city officials acknowledged in November 2015 after the Flint Journal/MLive published an article revealing the practice after obtaining documents through the Michigan Freedom of Information Act.

The Journal/MLive reported that the city had "disregarded federal rules requiring it to seek out homes with lead plumbing for testing, potentially leading the city and state to underestimate for months the extent of toxic lead leaching into Flint's tap water."

Only after independent research was conducted by Marc Edwards and a local physician, Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, was a public-health emergency declared"

Sigh. I really feel for the families. If everyone hadn't been so busy trying to CYA this could have been nipped in the bud.

Flint water crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"real facts"

lol

 

[cnm]

By the way, this water was to have been properly treated. Was Governor Snyder responsible for the lack of treatment?

Snyder appointed city managers were responsible for all decisions. The Snyder supervised environmental quality department refused to treat the water.

 

[cnm]

Keep pretending that organisations and entities answering to Snyder were not implementing his agenda.

 

[tinydancer]

By the way, this water was to have been properly treated. Was Governor Snyder responsible for the lack of treatment?

Snyder appointed city managers were responsible for all decisions. The Snyder supervised environmental quality department refused to treat the water.

Prove that they refused to treat the water. And I mean really back it up.

 

[cnm]

Flint City Council were the ones that decided to switch from Detroit Water and Sewage to Flint River and then to Karegondi Water Authority. Vote was 7 to 1.

Other way around, apparently.

Starting in 2010, Genesee County had spearheaded the development of the Karegnondi Water Authority (KWA) to supply it and Lapeer and Sanilac counties—plus the cities of Lapeer and Flint—with water.[7] On March 25, 2013, Flint City Council approved 7-1 to purchase 16 million gallons per day from the KWA rather than go with Flint River water as a permanent supply.[8] Flint emergency manager (EM) Ed Kurtz and Mayor Dayne Walling approved the action on March 29 and forward the action for the State Treasurer to approve.[9]
wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#cite_note-9

 

[tinydancer]

One more time it was a decision made to change to KWA who by the way were going to service other counties because they had a better price than Detroit Water and Sewage and Flint River was just a temporary fix.

Voted on 7 to 1.

It's still not the City Council's fault either. One of the problems with changing water supply companies is that Detroit got pissed off and were going to cut off Flint before the switch could be made to KWA.

Flint turned to Flint River. No option. That's just part of this whacked out sequence of events.

 

[cnm]

Prove that they refused to treat the water. And I mean really back it up.

The EPA was trying to make the the state environmental quality department [ensure the water was treated]. The department was fudging its tests and refusing to follow EPA direction. This is everywhere in media coverage of this issue.

How Flint's Water Got Poisonous

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

In October, the MDEQ admitted it failed to follow the correct protocol for corrosion. In December, the agency's director and spokesman both resigned after a task force appointed by Snyder blamed the MDEQ above all other agencies for failing to ensure the safety of Flint's water.​