The Pope takes back his Church

[CrusaderFrank]

Frank, "thou shalt not" call evil good as American capitalism is the antithesis of Christian teaching.

Jake thou shall shutteth the fuck up lest you reveal your ignorance and Marxist idolatry Read a Bible once in a while God was a big fan rewarding his people

Controlling the anti-Christian greed of capitalism and directing it into social market democratic paths is not Marxism, good buddy. You certainly readeth but comprehendeth it not.

It's marxism we have a marxist pope. Why bother giving money to a dead church that is abdicating its charitable mission

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What a shame.

The nations that are the most Socialist and practice government enforced redistribution are the world poorest.

The USA became the most prosperous nation on the planet because we tried something new and different and totally aligned with the teaching of Christ

South America and the US's policy towards them is a whole other thread subject, unless you believe to the point of public expression that the last 40 years or so of US policy (covert and overt) towards the South Americas was Godly in any way, shape, or form.

Great example. Your hero Hugo Chavez caused vast poverty and human misery and is a classic example of the guaranteed failure of Marxist Francis ideology

 

[Barb]

What a shame.

The nations that are the most Socialist and practice government enforced redistribution are the world poorest.

The USA became the most prosperous nation on the planet because we tried something new and different and totally aligned with the teaching of Christ

South America and the US's policy towards them is a whole other thread subject, unless you believe to the point of public expression that the last 40 years or so of US policy (covert and overt) towards the South Americas was Godly in any way, shape, or form.

Great example. Your hero Hugo Chavez caused vast poverty and human misery and is a classic example of the guaranteed failure of Marxist Francis ideology

If you would like to argue the results of US Policy in the South America's, I would be very happy to oblige. Start a thread. This one's about the wonderful new Pope

 

[Quantum Windbag]

no he did not.

having a grandmother a catholic does not make you "knowledgeable" . it just leaves you with no other option but to be a typo police

your whole "knowledge"is salon or huffpost opinions

Please ask an adult in your household to explain to you what the Pope actually said in the OP, Vox!

Maybe we can help him. Here is the link to the Pope's own writing on the subject:

Evangelii Gaudium, Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Francis, 2013

53. Just as the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say “thou shalt not” to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.

Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a “disposable” culture which is now spreading. It is no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new. Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised – they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the “exploited” but the outcast, the “leftovers”.

54. In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

emphasis mine

Read the whole thing - Pope Francis writes clearly and quite well.

Funny how you support this guy when he spouts psuedo science that you like, yet eviscerate him when he spouts the same psuedo science to make a point you don't.

I prefer to ignore him all the time, even when I think he is right. If I can't make my own arguments in defense of my opinions they aren't really my opinions, they are just soundbites I cling to to sound intelligent.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

South America and the US's policy towards them is a whole other thread subject, unless you believe to the point of public expression that the last 40 years or so of US policy (covert and overt) towards the South Americas was Godly in any way, shape, or form.

Great example. Your hero Hugo Chavez caused vast poverty and human misery and is a classic example of the guaranteed failure of Marxist Francis ideology

If you would like to argue the results of US Policy in the South America's, I would be very happy to oblige. Start a thread. This one's about the wonderful new Pope

The Pope who said "Among the vulnerable for whom the Church wishes to care with particular love and concern are unborn children, the most defenceless and innocent among us. Nowadays efforts are made to deny them their human dignity and to do with them whatever one pleases, taking their lives and passing laws preventing anyone from standing in the way of this. Frequently, as a way of ridiculing the Church’s effort to defend their lives, attempts are made to present her position as ideological, obscurantist and conservative" in the very same document you just praised?

Please, lets talk about this "Wonderful new Pope." I am willing to bet I can use his words to prove to you that you hate everything he stands for.

 

[BDBoop]

South America and the US's policy towards them is a whole other thread subject, unless you believe to the point of public expression that the last 40 years or so of US policy (covert and overt) towards the South Americas was Godly in any way, shape, or form.

Great example. Your hero Hugo Chavez caused vast poverty and human misery and is a classic example of the guaranteed failure of Marxist Francis ideology

If you would like to argue the results of US Policy in the South America's, I would be very happy to oblige. Start a thread. This one's about the wonderful new Pope

Long may he reign!

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Did you know that he wants Catholics to proclaim their faith on the streets?

That he expects them to get in your face and, how is it that you put it again, shove their beliefs down your throat?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Great example. Your hero Hugo Chavez caused vast poverty and human misery and is a classic example of the guaranteed failure of Marxist Francis ideology

If you would like to argue the results of US Policy in the South America's, I would be very happy to oblige. Start a thread. This one's about the wonderful new Pope

Long may he reign!

You might want to pay closer attention to what he is saying before you say stuff like that. He might believe in redistribution of wealth, but he is diametrically opposed to almost everything else you hold dear.

 

[Derideo_Te]

So it is the 5-10% profit margin that is the cause of the bankruptcy?

Should doctors accept a salary that bankrupts the family, should the nurses? the hospital staff?

Deflection from answering the question asked duly noted.

You're right.

Let's skip over the fact that your opinion here is based entirely in the dogmatic value that a human life's worth cannot be expressed in economic value. . . let's just pretend that you're correct.

People should not be going into the medical profession to profit. They should be going into the medical profession because people need to be helped. Let's assume that this isn't an opinion and that, somehow, this moral can be proven as "correct".

So let's stop paying doctors large salaries. Fuck that they had to pay their way through school and bust their ass for seven years, if that's the route they wanted to go they should've been willing to do it for free.

Let's nationalize all medicine from here on out, make sure those evil fuckers that blast millions of dollars in R&D and those greedy ass scientists who come up with the drugs in the first place aren't doing so to take our money. People that want to come up with new medicines should be doing so for the good of mankind, not for their pocket books. Let's just take their stuff. You know, as a society. . . for the children and all that.

And those dickheads selling insurance? We should simply do away with them, if you catch my drift. They shouldn't be paying peoples' medical bills only because those people paid into the insurance scheme, and they damn well shouldn't be doing it for a profit. They should pay for everyone's medical treatment because fuck 'em, they got the money and they need to help people.

So yeah, let's go all out and enforce your morality on the entire medical industry. Then, when we've removed all personal incentive, watch how quickly people smart enough to be surgeons divert into other more profitable majors.

Watch how quickly world class chemists start peddling their wares in other fields in stead of researching and inventing new medicines.

Watch how quickly people with the capital to play the insurance game start investing in other shit in stead, and, while you're at it, make sure your medical savings account is brimming, dummy.

Sorry, but this "culture of greed" has presided over the fastest technological growth spurt the world's ever seen. You can attribute a lot of it to abundant energy resources, but if you think that morally pressuring people to help each other is going to create the kind of innovation that a free market promotes, you're dreaming.

The rest of the world is not like America. Perhaps if you knew a little bit about how healthcare works in the rest of the civilized nations you would understand that quality of life is preferable to amassing the most wealth and/or possessions.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Jake thou shall shutteth the fuck up lest you reveal your ignorance and Marxist idolatry Read a Bible once in a while God was a big fan rewarding his people

Controlling the anti-Christian greed of capitalism and directing it into social market democratic paths is not Marxism, good buddy. You certainly readeth but comprehendeth it not.

It's marxism we have a marxist pope. Why bother giving money to a dead church that is abdicating its charitable mission

 

[Dot Com]

Of course, my favorite bit;

The excluded are still waiting for wealth to “trickle down”

“In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.”

The 21 Most Important Quotes from Pope Francis' Sweeping Apostolic Exhortation 'Evangelii Gaudium' - Aleteia

exactly. He's no sheeple

Pope Francis attacks 'tyranny' of unfettered capitalism, 'idolatry of money' - World News

This is, of course, anathema to contemporary Republicans.
.
.
.
.
.

 

[Vox]

Jake thou shall shutteth the fuck up lest you reveal your ignorance and Marxist idolatry Read a Bible once in a while God was a big fan rewarding his people

Controlling the anti-Christian greed of capitalism and directing it into social market democratic paths is not Marxism, good buddy. You certainly readeth but comprehendeth it not.

It's marxism we have a marxist pope. Why bother giving money to a dead church that is abdicating its charitable mission

He is not exactly marxist, he actually is AGAINST liberation theology, but having been around and fighting against it for the last 45 years he inevitably got some influence from it as well.
Don't view this Pope as the person from the first world country. He is NOT. He is from Latin America and the problems of that part of the word are the ones he is mostly influenced in his views and that is the core of his remarks.

You can not view them from the standpoint of the affluent West.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Of course, my favorite bit;

The excluded are still waiting for wealth to “trickle down”

“In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.”

The 21 Most Important Quotes from Pope Francis' Sweeping Apostolic Exhortation 'Evangelii Gaudium' - Aleteia

exactly. He's no sheeple

Pope Francis attacks 'tyranny' of unfettered capitalism, 'idolatry of money' - World News

This is, of course, anathema to contemporary Republicans.
.
.
.
.
.

Exactly.

 

[Barb]

Please ask an adult in your household to explain to you what the Pope actually said in the OP, Vox!

Maybe we can help him. Here is the link to the Pope's own writing on the subject:

Evangelii Gaudium, Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Francis, 2013

53. Just as the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say “thou shalt not” to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills. How can it be that it is not a news item when an elderly homeless person dies of exposure, but it is news when the stock market loses two points? This is a case of exclusion. Can we continue to stand by when food is thrown away while people are starving? This is a case of inequality. Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalized: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape.

Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded. We have created a “disposable” culture which is now spreading. It is no longer simply about exploitation and oppression, but something new. Exclusion ultimately has to do with what it means to be a part of the society in which we live; those excluded are no longer society’s underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised – they are no longer even a part of it. The excluded are not the “exploited” but the outcast, the “leftovers”.

54. In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system. Meanwhile, the excluded are still waiting. To sustain a lifestyle which excludes others, or to sustain enthusiasm for that selfish ideal, a globalization of indifference has developed. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people’s pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else’s responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase; and in the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

emphasis mine

Read the whole thing - Pope Francis writes clearly and quite well.

Funny how you support this guy when he spouts psuedo science that you like, yet eviscerate him when he spouts the same psuedo science to make a point you don't.

I prefer to ignore him all the time, even when I think he is right. If I can't make my own arguments in defense of my opinions they aren't really my opinions, they are just soundbites I cling to to sound intelligent.

Actually, what I support are his stances on political science as it applies to social policies. Try to keep up.

 

[Barb]

Great example. Your hero Hugo Chavez caused vast poverty and human misery and is a classic example of the guaranteed failure of Marxist Francis ideology

If you would like to argue the results of US Policy in the South America's, I would be very happy to oblige. Start a thread. This one's about the wonderful new Pope

The Pope who said "Among the vulnerable for whom the Church wishes to care with particular love and concern are unborn children, the most defenceless and innocent among us. Nowadays efforts are made to deny them their human dignity and to do with them whatever one pleases, taking their lives and passing laws preventing anyone from standing in the way of this. Frequently, as a way of ridiculing the Church’s effort to defend their lives, attempts are made to present her position as ideological, obscurantist and conservative" in the very same document you just praised?

Please, lets talk about this "Wonderful new Pope." I am willing to bet I can use his words to prove to you that you hate everything he stands for.

So if we part ways on anything I must "hate everything he stands for?" Lighten up, Nancy. You're just a little to emotional about this.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

Deflection from answering the question asked duly noted.

You're right.

Let's skip over the fact that your opinion here is based entirely in the dogmatic value that a human life's worth cannot be expressed in economic value. . . let's just pretend that you're correct.

People should not be going into the medical profession to profit. They should be going into the medical profession because people need to be helped. Let's assume that this isn't an opinion and that, somehow, this moral can be proven as "correct".

So let's stop paying doctors large salaries. Fuck that they had to pay their way through school and bust their ass for seven years, if that's the route they wanted to go they should've been willing to do it for free.

Let's nationalize all medicine from here on out, make sure those evil fuckers that blast millions of dollars in R&D and those greedy ass scientists who come up with the drugs in the first place aren't doing so to take our money. People that want to come up with new medicines should be doing so for the good of mankind, not for their pocket books. Let's just take their stuff. You know, as a society. . . for the children and all that.

And those dickheads selling insurance? We should simply do away with them, if you catch my drift. They shouldn't be paying peoples' medical bills only because those people paid into the insurance scheme, and they damn well shouldn't be doing it for a profit. They should pay for everyone's medical treatment because fuck 'em, they got the money and they need to help people.

So yeah, let's go all out and enforce your morality on the entire medical industry. Then, when we've removed all personal incentive, watch how quickly people smart enough to be surgeons divert into other more profitable majors.

Watch how quickly world class chemists start peddling their wares in other fields in stead of researching and inventing new medicines.

Watch how quickly people with the capital to play the insurance game start investing in other shit in stead, and, while you're at it, make sure your medical savings account is brimming, dummy.

Sorry, but this "culture of greed" has presided over the fastest technological growth spurt the world's ever seen. You can attribute a lot of it to abundant energy resources, but if you think that morally pressuring people to help each other is going to create the kind of innovation that a free market promotes, you're dreaming.

The rest of the world is not like America. Perhaps if you knew a little bit about how healthcare works in the rest of the civilized nations you would understand that quality of life is preferable to amassing the most wealth and/or possessions.

Preferable? Define preferable. Last I checked this was an objective value, just like the morals that drive you kids to say shit like insurance people are evil because they profit off of the death of children.

I know enough about other nations with socialized health care to know that putting a government in charge doesn't guarantee treatment any more than the private sector does, and I know enough about history to know that putting the government in charge of wealth distribution doesn't guarantee that there won't be portions of the population suffering from poverty.

No matter how comprehensively you legislate and no matter how noble your stated purpose is, shit will continue to happen. Count on it.

 

[Derideo_Te]

You're right.

Let's skip over the fact that your opinion here is based entirely in the dogmatic value that a human life's worth cannot be expressed in economic value. . . let's just pretend that you're correct.

People should not be going into the medical profession to profit. They should be going into the medical profession because people need to be helped. Let's assume that this isn't an opinion and that, somehow, this moral can be proven as "correct".

So let's stop paying doctors large salaries. Fuck that they had to pay their way through school and bust their ass for seven years, if that's the route they wanted to go they should've been willing to do it for free.

Let's nationalize all medicine from here on out, make sure those evil fuckers that blast millions of dollars in R&D and those greedy ass scientists who come up with the drugs in the first place aren't doing so to take our money. People that want to come up with new medicines should be doing so for the good of mankind, not for their pocket books. Let's just take their stuff. You know, as a society. . . for the children and all that.

And those dickheads selling insurance? We should simply do away with them, if you catch my drift. They shouldn't be paying peoples' medical bills only because those people paid into the insurance scheme, and they damn well shouldn't be doing it for a profit. They should pay for everyone's medical treatment because fuck 'em, they got the money and they need to help people.

So yeah, let's go all out and enforce your morality on the entire medical industry. Then, when we've removed all personal incentive, watch how quickly people smart enough to be surgeons divert into other more profitable majors.

Watch how quickly world class chemists start peddling their wares in other fields in stead of researching and inventing new medicines.

Watch how quickly people with the capital to play the insurance game start investing in other shit in stead, and, while you're at it, make sure your medical savings account is brimming, dummy.

Sorry, but this "culture of greed" has presided over the fastest technological growth spurt the world's ever seen. You can attribute a lot of it to abundant energy resources, but if you think that morally pressuring people to help each other is going to create the kind of innovation that a free market promotes, you're dreaming.

The rest of the world is not like America. Perhaps if you knew a little bit about how healthcare works in the rest of the civilized nations you would understand that quality of life is preferable to amassing the most wealth and/or possessions.

Preferable? Define preferable. Last I checked this was an objective value, just like the morals that drive you kids to say shit like insurance people are evil because they profit off of the death of children.

I know enough about other nations with socialized health care to know that putting a government in charge doesn't guarantee treatment any more than the private sector does, and I know enough about history to know that putting the government in charge of wealth distribution doesn't guarantee that there won't be portions of the population suffering from poverty.

No matter how comprehensively you legislate and no matter how noble your stated purpose is, shit will continue to happen. Count on it.

Your lack of faith in We the People to govern ourselves is duly noted. Then again you support a gouging private sector and a corporate owned legislature.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe we can help him. Here is the link to the Pope's own writing on the subject:

Evangelii Gaudium, Apostolic Exhortation of Pope Francis, 2013

emphasis mine

Read the whole thing - Pope Francis writes clearly and quite well.

Funny how you support this guy when he spouts psuedo science that you like, yet eviscerate him when he spouts the same psuedo science to make a point you don't.

I prefer to ignore him all the time, even when I think he is right. If I can't make my own arguments in defense of my opinions they aren't really my opinions, they are just soundbites I cling to to sound intelligent.

Actually, what I support are his stances on political science as it applies to social policies. Try to keep up.

Except that is not what he is doing, is it?


The issues here are economic, not political, and the data clearly shows that free markets improve quality of life. Every single non Marxist economist on the planet says the same thing, yet thanks to the idiot that can't look at the facts, the church has based its offical policy on an falsehood. In a few decades another Pope will eventually have to step in an issue an official correction for that lie, and everyone will marvel that the Church is finally moving into the 22nd century and recognizing that its version of science is completely wrong just like when they finally admitted Galileo was right.

Which means that, just like I said, you support him when he agrees with you, and hate him when he doesn't. Not sure if that makes you angry, or just pathetic, and don't care enough to figure it out.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you would like to argue the results of US Policy in the South America's, I would be very happy to oblige. Start a thread. This one's about the wonderful new Pope

The Pope who said "Among the vulnerable for whom the Church wishes to care with particular love and concern are unborn children, the most defenceless and innocent among us. Nowadays efforts are made to deny them their human dignity and to do with them whatever one pleases, taking their lives and passing laws preventing anyone from standing in the way of this. Frequently, as a way of ridiculing the Church’s effort to defend their lives, attempts are made to present her position as ideological, obscurantist and conservative" in the very same document you just praised?

Please, lets talk about this "Wonderful new Pope." I am willing to bet I can use his words to prove to you that you hate everything he stands for.

So if we part ways on anything I must "hate everything he stands for?" Lighten up, Nancy. You're just a little to emotional about this.

No, it means you are using fake science and outright lies to support your viewpoint, which is absurd.

On the other hand, you could try proving he was right when he said that free enterprise has never improved the quality of life for anyone. That would at least who that you are basing your opinion about him being right on something other than him agreeing with you.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The rest of the world is not like America. Perhaps if you knew a little bit about how healthcare works in the rest of the civilized nations you would understand that quality of life is preferable to amassing the most wealth and/or possessions.

Preferable? Define preferable. Last I checked this was an objective value, just like the morals that drive you kids to say shit like insurance people are evil because they profit off of the death of children.

I know enough about other nations with socialized health care to know that putting a government in charge doesn't guarantee treatment any more than the private sector does, and I know enough about history to know that putting the government in charge of wealth distribution doesn't guarantee that there won't be portions of the population suffering from poverty.

No matter how comprehensively you legislate and no matter how noble your stated purpose is, shit will continue to happen. Count on it.

Your lack of faith in We the People to govern ourselves is duly noted. Then again you support a gouging private sector and a corporate owned legislature.

Why does this make me think of another, even dumber, idiot?