The Post-Trump GOP

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

You are telling me the Democrats are "commies" and thus want "a stateless society" ... while at the same time "warming up the gas chambers" to let the STATE imprison dissenters?

No, "commie" is the word I use as a pejorative. "Sociee" doesn't sound as good.

It works because the common connection between the two is that individuals are divested of the means of production.

Anything you are calling "socialism" that does not divest the individual of the ownership of the means of production is not socialism.

Lack of logical coherence aside, it's really getting old ... some people told me the same about Obama 10 years ago. That he's a commie or wants to erect gas chambers. Doesn't look like that's what happened. But now, it's a Republican President who tries to subvert the Constitution by refusing to accept the will of the people, like some former east Bloc commie dictator.

He was an admitted Marxist.

He got away with as much as he could. The Constitution was standing in his way. He admitted that too.

 

[Correll]

I've read a couple of times in the past weeks, "Trump is gone, but Trumpism isn't". Though I hope very much this isn't true.

My concerns are less about most of Trump's policies, but his style: That he was running the country on a maximum of division, and that he constantly denied facts and truth, but rather made fuss about fake news stories from the weirdest sources. He constantly fueled distrust and suspicion of the institutions of a constitutional republic, not least by pissing on the Constitution by ignoring the will of the people and attempting to steal the election after he lost.

Trump is a prime example for "party above country", or rather "my own power above country" and for "winning over being right".

A President who uses lying and disinformation as his main tactic for governing is dangerous for any free, constitutional republic. Because constant lying, fake news and disinformation erodes the very basis the republic is founded on.

It's sad to see what the once "Grand Old Party" has become. They used to have decent people like Reagan, Bush sr., John McCain ... people you didn't need to agree with, but whom you could respect as decent people who have the best of the country at their hearts.

I really hope this party comes back to its senses.

It won't.

Trump was the product of the madness that is the GOP.

That you think wanting better trade deals and to deport illegals is "madness",


is you being the crazy one.

 

[Correll]

The real question is whether Trumpism is an aberration or a continuation of Republican “conservatism”.

If Trumpism is merely a continuation, which it may very well be, then Trumpism will not only survive Trump but thrive. The Republican Party was headed towards a more populist position regardless of Trump. With the election of Obama and the the Koch Bros bankrolling the Tea Party the dye was cast as to where the party would be heading. A party angry at the elites, angry at the changing nature of the country, angry at the globalization of the world economy, etc. Trumpism has unleashed that genie and that genie will not be easily put back into the bottle.

As such I don‘t think Trumpism is an aberration. This sense of grievance will only grow with the increase of right-wing media playing to this grievance 24/7.

Trumpism may not need Trump to survive. Trump is an incredibly flawed person, but he has hit a cord.

There is speculation that Ivanka will run for the senate in Florida against Rubio. That will be the bell weather where the GOP is heading. I would expect her to crush him in the primaries.

Yeah, this is clearly not going away.

The questions going forward may be (a) can it just be reduced and marginalized to a point where it is manageable, and (b) how to motivate them to still vote.

I suspect one important element of any Republican candidate's campaign going forward will have to include regularly screaming COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH. Something like that.

When you insist on marginalizing real people with real grievances,

it is on you, when they come back, mad as hell.

You want a civil war? Because this is how you get a civil war.

 

[Correll]

Republicans are being short sighted
Pandering to the MAGA crowd may help them win with the older, white Christians who fear their loss of power.
But younger Americans and minorities are repulsed by the actions of the far right. They are lost forever

Might be true, but the Dems are making a big mistake if they assume too much. They're certainly capable of going too far, as well.

This is why I don't like seeing the GOP turn into a fuckin' psycho ward like this. We need (at least) two strong parties.

When I checked the website of the Dem's national convention in 2016, it took me 15 minutes of clicking around until I saw the first picture of a white male who wasn't obviously depicted as gay.

It's all nice and fine when Democrats care for the issues of non-whites and other minorities ... but if they give a damn about white workers, they shouldn't be surprised when 70% of them then vote for someone like Trump.

This is a very large part of why Trump won in 2016 and why the Dems underperformed in November. The Regressive Left wing of the party -- the illiberal, authoritarian end that pushes Political Correctness, Identity Politics and Cancel Culture -- has damaged the party considerably.

And, just as the Trumpsters are refusing to look clearly and honestly in the mirror, so is the Regressive Left. As I always say, the two ends of our political spectrum can be comically similar in their behaviors.

We are NOT using mob violence to terrorize our enemies, and arresting people that defend themselves.

So, the similarities, are not very impressive.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I first noticed this when discussing the Meltdown of 2008 with them. Finance has been my profession for 20+ years, I've studied the Meltdown extensively, and the story they have been told about it is simply wrong. It was so bizarre for me, with all the information available to them, that I just gave up trying to discuss it with them.

So, no bullshit. What is your take on the 2008 meltdown?

Here's my take, but I will seriously consider any position you have:

Banks were pressured into giving ARM loans with zero down payment to subprime borrowers as a means of getting more black/minority home owners. Others took advantage of the system and jumped into the real estate market, owning 10+ rentals, etc. The housing bubble crashed and they were all left holding their dicks, so the foreclosures went into hyperdrive which left a bunch of empty homes the banks were not able to move or get payment on the mortgages.

Of course, that is the skinny version. There is a lot more to it than that, but what did I leave out or get wrong?

 

[rightwinger]

What's next for the GOP?

A couple of very interesting pieces this morning. Interestingly, much of what they cover includes what we've been talking about here. The anti-Trump types like the Lincoln Project know damn well that he has a vice-like grip on the party, and will even have to consider running separate candidates, which we haven't really talked about here. The party is so afraid of Trump, in fact, that they're not even engaging in the traditional post-mortem for fear of angering him. Holy crap.

At the same time, they did do better than expected down ticket (or was it the Democrats doing worse than expected?), so that just muddies the waters even more. So what do the next few years look like for the GOP?

Never-Trump movement splinters as its villain heads for the exit

"Is there a market for an anti-Trump Republican Party now?” said one prominent member of the anti-Trump Lincoln Project. “I would say no.”

www.politico.com

‘Everything’s great’: GOP ditches election post-mortems

Mitt Romney lost by 5 million votes in 2012 and sparked a 100-page RNC autopsy report. Donald Trump lost by 7 million and there isn’t a peep.

www.politico.com

Oh, for Trumpsters: Ignore all this, he won, "by a lot", they cheated, he'll stay in office, MAGA.

My thoughts:

With tRump still around and noisy (damn is he ever noisy!) They will be a party divided unless they throw their weight behind him. And if they do, as they must to have even the slightest chance at the presidency in 2024, then all the down ballot races have to kiss the orange ass for support, taking the party even farther afield from it's long lost core principals. Four more years of this and the gop is forever gone. Replaced by the tRumplings.

What you forget about the yahoo virus?

Joe won't last a second term this is not going away soon.

I don’t think Biden will run for a second term.....
Unless Trump looks like he will represent the GOP

Then, Biden will kick his ass again

I suppose if they send out paper ballots again to grade school children and illegal mexicans

Why are grade school children and illegal Mexicans registered voters?

I think you are fibbing

 

[Correll]

Republicans are being short sighted
Pandering to the MAGA crowd may help them win with the older, white Christians who fear their loss of power.
But younger Americans and minorities are repulsed by the actions of the far right. They are lost forever

Might be true, but the Dems are making a big mistake if they assume too much. They're certainly capable of going too far, as well.

This is why I don't like seeing the GOP turn into a fuckin' psycho ward like this. We need (at least) two strong parties.

So you don't think the "psychos" will leave the Republican Party to the Moderates if they think its a quixotic effort to gain power?

I don't know. The Trumpsters have the power right now, and the job will be to marginalize them just enough.

Will that happen? I don't know. It may split the party in two literally, and you'll all receive Thank You Cards from the Democrats.

The damage is done, Trump did one heck of a job slamming main stream media and bringing out the true colors of the left.

Very true
Trump bred mistrust in the media. Exactly what most Dictators do in attacking a free press

No he didn't he just slammed it home, the media had there way for over 40 years telling half truths, or burry story's which by the way is deadlier then the truth.

Problem with the credibility of Trumps attacks on the media is that he is so shallow and so obvious.

He attacks the media that criticizes him and heaps adulation on those that praise him.

Let Fox dare to act like a legitimate news outlet and Trump throws a tantrum

Says teth man that still pretends that Trump said ws are very fine people.


Filthy liar.

 

[Correll]

There are no more liberals in the Dem party. They all bailed. It's a goose-stepping commie fest.

Good gawd, ease up on the psycho throttle a little. You're just a caricature at this point.

You say, "ease up" while openly advocating permanently marginalizing a major population of people with real grievances.


Are you not aware of how your actions rightfully enrage your enemies? Are you truly unable to connect cause and effect?

 

[rightwinger]

Republicans are being short sighted
Pandering to the MAGA crowd may help them win with the older, white Christians who fear their loss of power.
But younger Americans and minorities are repulsed by the actions of the far right. They are lost forever

Might be true, but the Dems are making a big mistake if they assume too much. They're certainly capable of going too far, as well.

This is why I don't like seeing the GOP turn into a fuckin' psycho ward like this. We need (at least) two strong parties.

So you don't think the "psychos" will leave the Republican Party to the Moderates if they think its a quixotic effort to gain power?

I don't know. The Trumpsters have the power right now, and the job will be to marginalize them just enough.

Will that happen? I don't know. It may split the party in two literally, and you'll all receive Thank You Cards from the Democrats.

The damage is done, Trump did one heck of a job slamming main stream media and bringing out the true colors of the left.

Very true
Trump bred mistrust in the media. Exactly what most Dictators do in attacking a free press

No he didn't he just slammed it home, the media had there way for over 40 years telling half truths, or burry story's which by the way is deadlier then the truth.

Problem with the credibility of Trumps attacks on the media is that he is so shallow and so obvious.

He attacks the media that criticizes him and heaps adulation on those that praise him.

Let Fox dare to act like a legitimate news outlet and Trump throws a tantrum

Says teth man that still pretends that Trump said ws are very fine people.


Filthy liar.

You type with a lithp

 

[Correll]

This is a very large part of why Trump won in 2016 and why the Dems underperformed in November. The Regressive Left wing of the party -- the illiberal, authoritarian end that pushes Political Correctness, Identity Politics and Cancel Culture -- has damaged the party considerably.

You're describing the WHOLE FUCKING PARTY.

There are no more liberals in the Dem party. They all bailed. It's a goose-stepping commie fest.

Guess if you took the effort of actually talking with some Democrats, you'd probably realize many of them are decent human beings, rather than the silly caricatures the Trump fake news machine wants you to believe they are.

Considering how many Reps still cling to Trump and fail to defend the Constitution against Trump's attempts to piss on it, looks like they're in lockstep to me... but I'm pretty sure there must still be many decent people among them. It's just about time they finally speak up again.

They can't do that. I don't know how familiar you are with the alternate universe they have created, but they are conditioned to avoid / ignore / dismiss anything they are provided in their ideological ecosystem as "fake news" and "commie lies". This alternate universe is now entirely self-sustaining and fully functional. They have their reality, the rest of the country and world has another.

I'm being dead serious. This is what we're dealing with here.

Will you spare us the "alternate universe" cop out.

NAME ONE FUCKING LIBERAL DEMOCRAT STILL LEFT!!!

None, in your world. You're right. In your world.

And you wonder why we are angry.

 

[Correll]

This is a very large part of why Trump won in 2016 and why the Dems underperformed in November. The Regressive Left wing of the party -- the illiberal, authoritarian end that pushes Political Correctness, Identity Politics and Cancel Culture -- has damaged the party considerably.

You're describing the WHOLE FUCKING PARTY.

There are no more liberals in the Dem party. They all bailed. It's a goose-stepping commie fest.

Guess if you took the effort of actually talking with some Democrats, you'd probably realize many of them are decent human beings, rather than the silly caricatures the Trump fake news machine wants you to believe they are.

Considering how many Reps still cling to Trump and fail to defend the Constitution against Trump's attempts to piss on it, looks like they're in lockstep to me... but I'm pretty sure there must still be many decent people among them. It's just about time they finally speak up again.

They can't do that. I don't know how familiar you are with the alternate universe they have created, but they are conditioned to avoid / ignore / dismiss anything they are provided in their ideological ecosystem as "fake news" and "commie lies". This alternate universe is now entirely self-sustaining and fully functional. They have their reality, the rest of the country and world has another.

I'm being dead serious. This is what we're dealing with here.

Yeah, I have a vague idea about this problem ... over here in Germany, we have such a faction as well. Fortunately, it's still relatively small, the only party that panders to them and fuels their ideas is the far-right AfD, but it only gets around 10% of the votes and is shunned by all other parties, including the moderate right. Hope it stays that way.

But it's really scary to imagine they might rise in numbers. You got them siding with conspiracy ideologues denying Covid, watching racist anti-immigrant fake news online and watching Russian propaganda like RT News that rallys them up against our free, republican system. Really disgusting.

I'd call them what they are, traitors, but the problem is that won't bring us any further and will convince none of them.

Well, try to look at us as a cautionary tale. You went through the 30s and 40s with something similar in a few ways. You made it, but not before a great deal of damage was done. It's difficult for many of us to understand how this is happening. We thought that history taught us something.

I have a brother who lives in London, and as goofy as things are there now, he's just stunned by what he's seeing coming from us. We're in regression right now, and we have to find a way past this. Soon.

Now, you are implying we are fucking nazis, and you wonder why we are fucking angry at you.


DO YOU WANT A CIVIL WAR? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU GET A CIVIL WAR.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Republicans are being short sighted
Pandering to the MAGA crowd may help them win with the older, white Christians who fear their loss of power.
But younger Americans and minorities are repulsed by the actions of the far right. They are lost forever

Might be true, but the Dems are making a big mistake if they assume too much. They're certainly capable of going too far, as well.

This is why I don't like seeing the GOP turn into a fuckin' psycho ward like this. We need (at least) two strong parties.

When I checked the website of the Dem's national convention in 2016, it took me 15 minutes of clicking around until I saw the first picture of a white male who wasn't obviously depicted as gay.

It's all nice and fine when Democrats care for the issues of non-whites and other minorities ... but if they give a damn about white workers, they shouldn't be surprised when 70% of them then vote for someone like Trump.

This is a very large part of why Trump won in 2016 and why the Dems underperformed in November. The Regressive Left wing of the party -- the illiberal, authoritarian end that pushes Political Correctness, Identity Politics and Cancel Culture -- has damaged the party considerably.

And, just as the Trumpsters are refusing to look clearly and honestly in the mirror, so is the Regressive Left. As I always say, the two ends of our political spectrum can be comically similar in their behaviors.

We are NOT using mob violence to terrorize our enemies, and arresting people that defend themselves.

So, the similarities, are not very impressive.

He does not seem to care, and in fact has shown that he revels in the "fuck you" he is watching. I would conclude that he does not believe that we are dead fucking serious.

Texas is GONE. Leaving. It may not be this year, or next year, but the sentiment is real and serious. We are getting the fuck out one way or another. If it's peaceful, great. But, I suspect that the powerbrokers will not give up on the world's 10th largest economy that easily. I am at peace with that eventuality and will die for it.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

This is a very large part of why Trump won in 2016 and why the Dems underperformed in November. The Regressive Left wing of the party -- the illiberal, authoritarian end that pushes Political Correctness, Identity Politics and Cancel Culture -- has damaged the party considerably.

You're describing the WHOLE FUCKING PARTY.

There are no more liberals in the Dem party. They all bailed. It's a goose-stepping commie fest.

Guess if you took the effort of actually talking with some Democrats, you'd probably realize many of them are decent human beings, rather than the silly caricatures the Trump fake news machine wants you to believe they are.

Considering how many Reps still cling to Trump and fail to defend the Constitution against Trump's attempts to piss on it, looks like they're in lockstep to me... but I'm pretty sure there must still be many decent people among them. It's just about time they finally speak up again.

They can't do that. I don't know how familiar you are with the alternate universe they have created, but they are conditioned to avoid / ignore / dismiss anything they are provided in their ideological ecosystem as "fake news" and "commie lies". This alternate universe is now entirely self-sustaining and fully functional. They have their reality, the rest of the country and world has another.

I'm being dead serious. This is what we're dealing with here.

Will you spare us the "alternate universe" cop out.

NAME ONE FUCKING LIBERAL DEMOCRAT STILL LEFT!!!

None, in your world. You're right. In your world.

And you wonder why we are angry.

And he does it deliberately. I will stop right here and say no more.

 

[rightwinger]

This is a very large part of why Trump won in 2016 and why the Dems underperformed in November. The Regressive Left wing of the party -- the illiberal, authoritarian end that pushes Political Correctness, Identity Politics and Cancel Culture -- has damaged the party considerably.

You're describing the WHOLE FUCKING PARTY.

There are no more liberals in the Dem party. They all bailed. It's a goose-stepping commie fest.

Guess if you took the effort of actually talking with some Democrats, you'd probably realize many of them are decent human beings, rather than the silly caricatures the Trump fake news machine wants you to believe they are.

Considering how many Reps still cling to Trump and fail to defend the Constitution against Trump's attempts to piss on it, looks like they're in lockstep to me... but I'm pretty sure there must still be many decent people among them. It's just about time they finally speak up again.

They can't do that. I don't know how familiar you are with the alternate universe they have created, but they are conditioned to avoid / ignore / dismiss anything they are provided in their ideological ecosystem as "fake news" and "commie lies". This alternate universe is now entirely self-sustaining and fully functional. They have their reality, the rest of the country and world has another.

I'm being dead serious. This is what we're dealing with here.

Will you spare us the "alternate universe" cop out.

NAME ONE FUCKING LIBERAL DEMOCRAT STILL LEFT!!!

None, in your world. You're right. In your world.

And you wonder why we are angry.

Angry white man pouting because the rules no longer favor him.

 

[Bernhard]

The real question is whether Trumpism is an aberration or a continuation of Republican “conservatism”.

If Trumpism is merely a continuation, which it may very well be, then Trumpism will not only survive Trump but thrive. The Republican Party was headed towards a more populist position regardless of Trump. With the election of Obama and the the Koch Bros bankrolling the Tea Party the dye was cast as to where the party would be heading. A party angry at the elites, angry at the changing nature of the country, angry at the globalization of the world economy, etc. Trumpism has unleashed that genie and that genie will not be easily put back into the bottle.

As such I don‘t think Trumpism is an aberration. This sense of grievance will only grow with the increase of right-wing media playing to this grievance 24/7.

Trumpism may not need Trump to survive. Trump is an incredibly flawed person, but he has hit a cord.

There is speculation that Ivanka will run for the senate in Florida against Rubio. That will be the bell weather where the GOP is heading. I would expect her to crush him in the primaries.

Yeah, this is clearly not going away.

The questions going forward may be (a) can it just be reduced and marginalized to a point where it is manageable, and (b) how to motivate them to still vote.

I suspect one important element of any Republican candidate's campaign going forward will have to include regularly screaming COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH. Something like that.

When you insist on marginalizing real people with real grievances,

it is on you, when they come back, mad as hell.

You want a civil war? Because this is how you get a civil war.

If you're saying the Dems should better find ways to address the concerns of white workers, for that they don't have to fall for someone like Trump who just gives them scapegoats, you're preaching to the choir, as far as I am concerned.

Dems too should better care for the grievances of this demographic. Because on the long run, white academia and minority vote won't be enough to win elections.

They could start with throwing this silly identity stuff out of the window, imo.

 

[rightwinger]

DO YOU WANT A CIVIL WAR? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU GET A CIVIL WAR.

Sounds fun
We will kick your asses just like the last time

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The real question is whether Trumpism is an aberration or a continuation of Republican “conservatism”.

If Trumpism is merely a continuation, which it may very well be, then Trumpism will not only survive Trump but thrive. The Republican Party was headed towards a more populist position regardless of Trump. With the election of Obama and the the Koch Bros bankrolling the Tea Party the dye was cast as to where the party would be heading. A party angry at the elites, angry at the changing nature of the country, angry at the globalization of the world economy, etc. Trumpism has unleashed that genie and that genie will not be easily put back into the bottle.

As such I don‘t think Trumpism is an aberration. This sense of grievance will only grow with the increase of right-wing media playing to this grievance 24/7.

Trumpism may not need Trump to survive. Trump is an incredibly flawed person, but he has hit a cord.

There is speculation that Ivanka will run for the senate in Florida against Rubio. That will be the bell weather where the GOP is heading. I would expect her to crush him in the primaries.

Yeah, this is clearly not going away.

The questions going forward may be (a) can it just be reduced and marginalized to a point where it is manageable, and (b) how to motivate them to still vote.

I suspect one important element of any Republican candidate's campaign going forward will have to include regularly screaming COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH COMMIES AAAUUUGGGHHH. Something like that.

When you insist on marginalizing real people with real grievances,

it is on you, when they come back, mad as hell.

You want a civil war? Because this is how you get a civil war.

If you're saying the Dems should better find ways to address the concerns of white workers, for that they don't have to fall for someone like Trump who just gives them scapegoats, you're preaching to the choir, as far as I am concerned.

Dems too should better care for the grievances of this demographic. Because on the long run, white academia and minority vote won't be enough to win elections.

They could start with throwing this silly identity stuff out of the window, imo.

They won't throw out the identity shit if people like Mac keep voting for it.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

DO YOU WANT A CIVIL WAR? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU GET A CIVIL WAR.

Sounds fun
We will kick your asses just like the last time

I would love to try.

(note the continual antagonism, practically begging us to start a war.)

 

[Bernhard]

And you wonder why we are angry.

An honest question: Why are you angry? And what are the grievances you want politicians to address?

 

[rightwinger]

DO YOU WANT A CIVIL WAR? BECAUSE THIS IS HOW YOU GET A CIVIL WAR.

Sounds fun
We will kick your asses just like the last time

I would love to try.

(note the continual antagonism, practically begging us to start a war.)

That is what the Confederacy said