The Problem With keynesian economics

Public Government spending is not per se the problem. But mis-spending,


1) krugman says spending on weapons will end the depression even if you dump them into the sea

2) so as a goof liberal you have no idea what mis spending is do you??

See why we are positive a liberal will be a fool??
 
People were shocked when the nation didn't jump back in to a depression after the war because they put too much stock in the structural theories that were in vogue pre-war (and are coming back in to vogue today). That's they were wrong is a pretty positive sign. It means we engage in counter-cyclical spending to smooth demand without the need for an ever-rising debt.

And Taylor is a partisan hack. His own theory suggests interest rates should be negative right now, but he spends his days moaning that current rates are going to set off a wave of hyperinflation.

People were shocked there wasn't a depression after the war?

What the frack do you base that on?

Writings of economists from the time.

Can you actually provide examples?
 
The problem with that paper is that his argument doesn't really show what he thinks it shows. His argument is that it didn't have much impact because it just shifted what state and local governments did. Fair enough, but it misses the point they would have massively cut services in absence of stimulus. That creates a very different multiplier than his assumption that state and local government would have remained the same in the absence of stimulus.

The purpose of a Keynesian stimulus is to create new spending, not to continue old spending. The purpose of the Obama stimulus was to continue old spending until the economy inevitably recovered so he could take credit for it.

Thanks for admitting that, under Keynes theories, the stimulus was a failure. Thanks for also proving that, under Obama's theory, it was more than a failure.

That's only true if you believe Keynes stands for the proposition that maintaining the spending level is worse than reducing the spending level.

What you said does not even make sense, especially when you know what Keynes actually stood for.
 
i don't understand.

dear you're a liberal. liberals means, I don't understand!!!


In the 1930s, poor people (in effect) borrowed from their country-men, who made them build infrastructure, in the US. Then, in the 1940s, they built war material (to destroy infrastructure, in Europe). Economically, spending on domestic infrastructure & military (re-)employed millions of Americans, perhaps on Publicly-funded contracts, to private firms.

yes and then bubble bursts and everyone is unemployed times 10 and the entire economy is badly distorted until the free market can put people and resources back in their proper capitalist places. Way way over your head right????




But (Public) investment in infrastructure & military employs people to build new assets (roads, ships).

too stupid!! what happens when the bubble spending ends???? You get a depression!!! Only private spending is sustainable and can grow the economy.
 
Except that state and local governments largely don't have the ability to find their budgets via borrowing. Hence why even more liberal states have been slashing budgets all over the place.

Funny thing, they are still slashing budgets even though revenue is up. Under your explanation they should be increasing spending.

That assumes revenue is the only constraint. States can also be driving by ideological factors and concerns about another rainy day.

What ideological concerns do the Democrats in California have? In fact, what concerns do the Democrats in the California legislature have about a rainy day?

Maybe you should stop spouting sound bites and making assumptions that I live in a red state. Revenues are up in California and they are still cutting spending wherever the courts will let them.
 
People were shocked when the nation didn't jump back in to a depression after the war because they put too much stock in the structural theories that were in vogue pre-war (and are coming back in to vogue today). That's they were wrong is a pretty positive sign. It means we engage in counter-cyclical spending to smooth demand without the need for an ever-rising debt.

And Taylor is a partisan hack. His own theory suggests interest rates should be negative right now, but he spends his days moaning that current rates are going to set off a wave of hyperinflation.

People were shocked there wasn't a depression after the war?

What the frack do you base that on?

Writings of economists from the time.

its true even Krugman has said he doesn't know why the Depression didn't come back. It was a miracle given that it was a huge bubble popping far bigger than the housing bubble even.
 
Bubbles don't necessarily start with any specific politics behind them, ed. For instance, the .com bubble

dear, that was a bubble in one industry, not a liberal federal bubble that depresses the whole economy!!!


The housing bubble was supported by politicians and financiers.

yes now thats a liberal bubble as most of the federal government was organized to subvert the free market by getting folks in houses the free market said they could not afford.
Ed, me boy. You are a tool. Try thinking, for christ sakes.

The .com bubble was indeed a economy wide bubble. It drove up the value of securities greatly, and all financial and economic professionals recognized it as a national economic bubble. Only you have some strange aversion to believing it affected the overall economy.

By your rather strange analysis, the housing bubble would also be a single industry bubble. You know, ed, the housing industry. It was not, and it was not liberal in nature at all. It was based on a number of factors that had mostly to do with the financial industry believing that the values of real estate would not retreat, and a number of other factors. And, it was indeed fully supported by politicians and their economic expert, in this case Greenspan. He has since admitted he was wrong. Of course, you missed that, I am sure.
 
The purpose of a Keynesian stimulus is to create new spending, not to continue old spending. The purpose of the Obama stimulus was to continue old spending until the economy inevitably recovered so he could take credit for it.

Thanks for admitting that, under Keynes theories, the stimulus was a failure. Thanks for also proving that, under Obama's theory, it was more than a failure.

That's only true if you believe Keynes stands for the proposition that maintaining the spending level is worse than reducing the spending level.

What you said does not even make sense, especially when you know what Keynes actually stood for.

Keynes wrote a book in which he argued that government manipulation could be used in a 100 ways to help an economy. He said nothing more specific than that I promise. So you don't need to read the General Theory
 
Any particular one, or all of them? Do you have a "standard basket of commodities on the world market" index?

Doesn't matter which one you use, take a look at the world and the effect of the tight money supply we currently have.

So at least you realize there isn't a danger of runaway inflation. That's positive. I'd also note rising commodity prices aren't necessarily evidence of inflation. It can also be a sign of real shocks in supply and/or demand for the goods in question.

There is always a danger of runaway inflation, if there wasn't we wouldn't need the Fed.

Since you are suddenly a commodities and economics expert why don't you explain to us how the tight money supply we have right now is not an inflationary concern. By the wau, if you knew half as much as you think you did you would have tried to argue that the low interest rates are the best sign we do not have a tight money supply. Google and feel free to try and show me I am wrong.
 
The .com bubble was indeed a economy wide bubble.

it was a tiny private sector bubble from which the economy quickly recovered not a huge liberal national housing bubble that caused a protracted depression.

Our founders knew that national government was the source of evil, that is way they didn't give us one.
 
Any particular one, or all of them? Do you have a "standard basket of commodities on the world market" index?

Doesn't matter which one you use, take a look at the world and the effect of the tight money supply we currently have.

Of course it matters. Otherwise it's just arbitrarily picking the one that suits ones bias.

So far, the idea just sounds like a load of carp.

Perhaps it might be easer to just look at the exchange rate.

If I gave you examples you would dismiss them as proof of my bias, if you fond them yourself you can't lie to yourself as easily.

By the way, exchange rates are only effective at showing inflation when both sides of the exchange have disparate rates of inflation and the currency is actually traded freely. Various countries in the Eurozone have highly disparate inflation, yet they all use the same currency. If we used your standard none of them would show any inflation.
 
But your claim is that these are artificial markets that wouldn't exist in the absence of Freddie and Fannie. Your own data shows that you can attribute a third of the market to them at best.

How does that prove they did not create an artificial market?
 
But your claim is that these are artificial markets that wouldn't exist in the absence of Freddie and Fannie. Your own data shows that you can attribute a third of the market to them at best.

How does that prove they did not create an artificial market?


much of the government was organized to create an artificial market that would get people into homes the Republican free market said they could not afford. Who can say witha straight face that Fan Fred Fed CRA FHA were not a huge part of it??
 
That's only true if you believe Keynes stands for the proposition that maintaining the spending level is worse than reducing the spending level.

What you said does not even make sense, especially when you know what Keynes actually stood for.

Keynes wrote a book in which he argued that government manipulation could be used in a 100 ways to help an economy. He said nothing more specific than that I promise. So you don't need to read the General Theory

I actually read and, and wonder if what he said might actually work. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing his theory put to the test, the problem is everyone wants to use his theory to justify all sorts of things he didn't believe in.
 
"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." John Maynard Keynes

I am constantly fascinated by the right wing fight against success. Success that helped the nation and all its people and not just the privileged. The battle goes on with them and the people have been dead for a long time. Does that not say something about their ideas?

A Review of Keynesian Theory

"Along with Great Britain, President Reagan announced that the U.S. would also follow a monetarist policy. However, this was simply a cover story, meant for public consumption only. In reality, the government's policies were thoroughly Keynesian. Government borrowing and spending exploded under Reagan, with the national debt climbing to $3 trillion by the time he left office. Paul Volcker, Chairman of the Federal Reserve Board, battled inflation during the severe recession of 1980-82 through the Keynesian method of raising interest rates and tightening the money supply. When inflation looked defeated in 1982, he abruptly slashed the prime rate and flooded the economy with money. A few months later, the economy roared to life, in a recovery that would last over seven years. The American experience was in direct contrast to Great Britain's. As a result, most economists abandoned monetarist theory."
 
why don't you explain to us how the tight money supply we have right now is not an inflationary concern.

we have easy money now and it is not inflationary concern because few are spending the money

I think Milton Friedman might disagree. Low interest rates are a sign of extremely tight monetary policies.

The Invisibility of Market Monetarism - Forbes

Who knows what he would have thought with interest rates at 0% and the Fed's balance sheet at $3.5 trillion
 
IF you read "Reckless Endangerment" you'll see that it was 100%. THey defined subprime and Alt -a, and always downward to always expand .

Except those "subprime" loans that Freddie and Fannie were allegedly giving away were not actually subprime:

dear, if I said they were I'll pay you $10,000. Bet or run away with your liberal strawman between your legs once again.

Can you add two and two? If FF were not involved in the subprime or risky lending, then how could they be the cause of subprime mortgage crisis?
 

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