The Right To Bear Arms

[Redfish]

Ok, tell me exactly how a background check would work when a gangbanger sells a stolen gun to another gangbanger. That's a gun transaction, right?

Well, a background check wouldn't work on a stolen gun, but a fingerprint ID lock like my iphone has would. Which is why one of the five actions I think we should take is to mandate all new guns manufactured have the fingerprint ID lock that all smart phones now have as a standard feature.

who is going to fingerprint MS13 and the other criminal gangs? who is going to take their guns away and install fingerprint locks?

your naivete is amazing.

 

[Redfish]

that is a bold faced lie. Check out the gun deaths in Norway. How about Chicago, toughest gun laws in the nation, and the highest gun death rate.

1. It's "BALD-FACED LIE", not "Bold-faced", you fucking Russian troll.
2. What are the gun deaths in Norway supposed to prove, and by all means, post whatever data you want.
3. Chicago has tough gun laws but the states surrounding Chicago don't, so what happens is that straw purchasers traffic guns into Chicago that are used in crimes. Universal background checks on every gun purchase and transaction and transfer would eliminate straw purchasing.

typo, dipshit.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

All those kids gone just so the gun industry can make a few bucks, and worse. we, the American people allowed it to happen.

I agree. I still remember when then President George W. Bush signed the PLCAA protecting gun manufacturers and dealers from liability.

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is a United States law which protects firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable when crimes have been committed with their products. However, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible in much the same manner that any U.S. based manufacturer of consumer products is held responsible. They may also be held liable for negligent entrustment when they have reason to know a gun is intended for use in a crime.

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - Wikipedia

The manufacturer of a firearm is not responsible fro the crimes people commit

It is when the product is designed only to kill a lot of people. Thompson's sales came to a screeching halt on the Thompson MG when they singled it out with the 1934 law. IF only the mafia types only killed each other they may have left it alone. But they didn't. Innocents were slaughtered as well.

I elect that the AR types and the AK types are placed in the same special place the Thompson is today for exactly the same reason.

 

[BasicHumanUnit]

.
Ya know....Leftists already accomplished all this "Gun Control" and MORE......IN VENEZUELA.

How's that working out for Venezuela?
(It takes a special kind of Imbecile to see this and still push for more gun controls)

 

[The Derp]

Possession of a hand gun without a permit is a crime in Chicago. Do you understand that?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT GUNS THAT END UP IN CHICAGO ARE TRAFFICKED THERE BY STRAW PURCHASERS VIA AN "IRON PIPELINE"?

So it would seem that if you are truly, honestly, and sincerely concerned about gun violence in Chicago, you would support universal background checks that eliminate straw purchasing. But do you? No...because you're not true, honest, or sincere in your concern for gun violence in Chicago or any city for that matter.

You're just a fraud and a coward.

If guns are banned and confiscated, only criminals and the government will have guns, would that make you sleep better?

Straw man alert! Did I say anything about banning or confiscating guns? No. But you have to pretend I did, otherwise your hysterical argument means nothing. As I've said, I think there are five very simple and easy actions we can take to reduce gun violence, none of them involve banning or confiscating guns:

1. Universal background checks on any and all gun transactions and transfers, no exceptions.
2. All new guns manufactured moving forward must have the same fingerprint ID lock my smart phone has.
3. No one with a domestic violence charge or restraining order against them should be allowed to own a gun.
4. No one on the terrorist no-fly list should be allowed to own a gun.
5. Free, universal, open, and encouraged access to mental health counseling and treatment for everyone

If we enacted those five very simple and non-controversial actions, gun deaths would drop dramatically.

 

[Redfish]

All those kids gone just so the gun industry can make a few bucks, and worse. we, the American people allowed it to happen.

I agree. I still remember when then President George W. Bush signed the PLCAA protecting gun manufacturers and dealers from liability.

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is a United States law which protects firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable when crimes have been committed with their products. However, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible in much the same manner that any U.S. based manufacturer of consumer products is held responsible. They may also be held liable for negligent entrustment when they have reason to know a gun is intended for use in a crime.

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - Wikipedia

The manufacturer of a firearm is not responsible fro the crimes people commit

It is when the product is designed only to kill a lot of people. Thompson's sales came to a screeching halt on the Thompson MG when they singled it out with the 1934 law. IF only the mafia types only killed each other they may have left it alone. But they didn't. Innocents were slaughtered as well.

I elect that the AR types and the AK types are placed in the same special place the Thompson is today for exactly the same reason.

I sort of agree that no average citizen needs an assault rifle with a large capacity magazine. But the problem comes in defining the weapons and the slippery slope that the libs would put the entire subject on.

a better solution would be to get mentally ill people off the streets and not allow them to buy or own any kind of gun. We used to have places where people like the fla shooter would be committed, that no longer happens because we are obsessed with PC and cant hurt anyone's feelings, even if it saves innocent lives.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The never-give-an-inch NRA Rambo gun nuts are the greatest threat to my future gun rights. I would never own an AR-15.

How about a semiautomatic .223 like this

The rate of fire on the Mini-14 is much slower than the fire rate of the AR. You are limited to the number of rounds you can fire by that slower fire rate. For hunting, the Mini-14 blows the AR away in all areas. For Mass Kilings, the AR is king. Are you willing to compromise on making the AR and the AK of all types regulated more and gotten off the shelves at Gun Stores and out of Online Sales? If you are not, you hurt the gun culture. They just might bag the Mini-14 with the same oncoming laws that will bag the AR and AK.

 

[The Derp]

who is going to fingerprint MS13 and the other criminal gangs? who is going to take their guns away and install fingerprint locks?

You are being deliberately obtuse and I don't know why.

Firstly, do you even know how the current fingerprint ID locks on guns work? If not, educate yourself.

Take out your smart phone. Look at it. Does it have a fingerprint ID mechanism on it that allows you access? My iphone X does, and in order to use my smart phone, I have to unlock it with my fingerprint.

I propose the same thing on all newly manufactured guns. Some gunmakers already do that. I think it should be universal.

So why are you pretending to be obtuse? Why do you have that compulsion? Is it simply a matter of pride? That's what it seems.

 

[Redfish]

Possession of a hand gun without a permit is a crime in Chicago. Do you understand that?

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT GUNS THAT END UP IN CHICAGO ARE TRAFFICKED THERE BY STRAW PURCHASERS VIA AN "IRON PIPELINE"?

So it would seem that if you are truly, honestly, and sincerely concerned about gun violence in Chicago, you would support universal background checks that eliminate straw purchasing. But do you? No...because you're not true, honest, or sincere in your concern for gun violence in Chicago or any city for that matter.

You're just a fraud and a coward.

If guns are banned and confiscated, only criminals and the government will have guns, would that make you sleep better?

Straw man alert! Did I say anything about banning or confiscating guns? No. But you have to pretend I did, otherwise your hysterical argument means nothing. As I've said, I think there are five very simple and easy actions we can take to reduce gun violence, none of them involve banning or confiscating guns:

1. Universal background checks on any and all gun transactions and transfers, no exceptions.
2. All new guns manufactured moving forward must have the same fingerprint ID lock my smart phone has.
3. No one with a domestic violence charge or restraining order against them should be allowed to own a gun.
4. No one on the terrorist no-fly list should be allowed to own a gun.
5. Free, universal, open, and encouraged access to mental health counseling and treatment for everyone

If we enacted those five very simple and non-controversial actions, gun deaths would drop dramatically.

you keep saying background checks on all gun transactions, but you cant answer the question of how you do that when a criminal sells a gun to another criminal or trades a gun for a hit of coke.

Answer that and then we will talk, until then, STFU

 

[The Derp]

that is a bold faced lie. Check out the gun deaths in Norway. How about Chicago, toughest gun laws in the nation, and the highest gun death rate.

1. It's "BALD-FACED LIE", not "Bold-faced", you fucking Russian troll.
2. What are the gun deaths in Norway supposed to prove, and by all means, post whatever data you want.
3. Chicago has tough gun laws but the states surrounding Chicago don't, so what happens is that straw purchasers traffic guns into Chicago that are used in crimes. Universal background checks on every gun purchase and transaction and transfer would eliminate straw purchasing.

typo, dipshit.

No it wasn't. Don't fucking lie to me.

Secondly, what about points #2 and #3? No answer for those? Color me shocked.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

All those kids gone just so the gun industry can make a few bucks, and worse. we, the American people allowed it to happen.

I agree. I still remember when then President George W. Bush signed the PLCAA protecting gun manufacturers and dealers from liability.

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is a United States law which protects firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable when crimes have been committed with their products. However, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible in much the same manner that any U.S. based manufacturer of consumer products is held responsible. They may also be held liable for negligent entrustment when they have reason to know a gun is intended for use in a crime.

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - Wikipedia

The manufacturer of a firearm is not responsible fro the crimes people commit

It is when the product is designed only to kill a lot of people. Thompson's sales came to a screeching halt on the Thompson MG when they singled it out with the 1934 law. IF only the mafia types only killed each other they may have left it alone. But they didn't. Innocents were slaughtered as well.

I elect that the AR types and the AK types are placed in the same special place the Thompson is today for exactly the same reason.

I sort of agree that no average citizen needs an assault rifle with a large capacity magazine. But the problem comes in defining the weapons and the slippery slope that the libs would put the entire subject on.

a better solution would be to get mentally ill people off the streets and not allow them to buy or own any kind of gun. We used to have places where people like the fla shooter would be committed, that no longer happens because we are obsessed with PC and cant hurt anyone's feelings, even if it saves innocent lives.

You try and make it Political. It's not any more Political than the Non Political Mass Murderers. It's not about politics, it's about how do we minimize the damage and body count.

 

[Redfish]

who is going to fingerprint MS13 and the other criminal gangs? who is going to take their guns away and install fingerprint locks?

You are being deliberately obtuse and I don't know why.

Firstly, do you even know how the current fingerprint ID locks on guns work? If not, educate yourself.

Take out your smart phone. Look at it. Does it have a fingerprint ID mechanism on it that allows you access? My iphone X does, and in order to use my smart phone, I have to unlock it with my fingerprint.

I propose the same thing on all newly manufactured guns. Some gunmakers already do that. I think it should be universal.

So why are you pretending to be obtuse? Why do you have that compulsion? Is it simply a matter of pride? That's what it seems.

I am asking practical questions. you are posting talking points and bullshit.

I understand finger print locks. I have one on my gun safe. I don't have one on my gun in my car because I don't want to have to say "wait a minute Mr criminal while I activate my fingerprint lock"

 

[Redfish]

that is a bold faced lie. Check out the gun deaths in Norway. How about Chicago, toughest gun laws in the nation, and the highest gun death rate.

1. It's "BALD-FACED LIE", not "Bold-faced", you fucking Russian troll.
2. What are the gun deaths in Norway supposed to prove, and by all means, post whatever data you want.
3. Chicago has tough gun laws but the states surrounding Chicago don't, so what happens is that straw purchasers traffic guns into Chicago that are used in crimes. Universal background checks on every gun purchase and transaction and transfer would eliminate straw purchasing.

typo, dipshit.

No it wasn't. Don't fucking lie to me.

Secondly, what about points #2 and #3? No answer for those? Color me shocked.

already answered, and yes it was. I don't give a flying fuck if you believe me.

 

[Papageorgio]

It doesn't matter if their crime rate is high or not, the bottom line is once they banned the guns, the murder rates went up.

That sounds suspiciously like bullshit to me. Where are the "facts" that support this?

Murder and homicide rates before and after gun bans - Crime Prevention Research Center

So...a couple things about this chart:

1. I see the rate in 2010 dropped to below the rate in 1997.
2. Where's 2012-2017?

so it's your contention that it takes decades for gun bans to decrease the murder rate?

And how the hell should I know why there isn't data for 2017?

The murder rate went down after Britain added law enforcement to stem the trend that was moving upwards. So it was added law enforcement not banning guns that led to the decline.

 

[Redfish]

All those kids gone just so the gun industry can make a few bucks, and worse. we, the American people allowed it to happen.

I agree. I still remember when then President George W. Bush signed the PLCAA protecting gun manufacturers and dealers from liability.

The Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) is a United States law which protects firearms manufacturers and dealers from being held liable when crimes have been committed with their products. However, both manufacturers and dealers can still be held liable for damages resulting from defective products, breach of contract, criminal misconduct, and other actions for which they are directly responsible in much the same manner that any U.S. based manufacturer of consumer products is held responsible. They may also be held liable for negligent entrustment when they have reason to know a gun is intended for use in a crime.

Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act - Wikipedia

The manufacturer of a firearm is not responsible fro the crimes people commit

It is when the product is designed only to kill a lot of people. Thompson's sales came to a screeching halt on the Thompson MG when they singled it out with the 1934 law. IF only the mafia types only killed each other they may have left it alone. But they didn't. Innocents were slaughtered as well.

I elect that the AR types and the AK types are placed in the same special place the Thompson is today for exactly the same reason.

I sort of agree that no average citizen needs an assault rifle with a large capacity magazine. But the problem comes in defining the weapons and the slippery slope that the libs would put the entire subject on.

a better solution would be to get mentally ill people off the streets and not allow them to buy or own any kind of gun. We used to have places where people like the fla shooter would be committed, that no longer happens because we are obsessed with PC and cant hurt anyone's feelings, even if it saves innocent lives.

You try and make it Political. It's not any more Political than the Non Political Mass Murderers. It's not about politics, it's about how do we minimize the damage and body count.

by keeping guns out of the hands of mentally ill people and by arming the people protecting our children.

 

[kaz]

By Peter Weber

That's the opinion of Rupert Murdoch's conservative New York Post. And it's not as far-fetched as it may seem.

Well, let's read the text of the Second Amendment, says Jeffrey Sachs at The Huffington Post:

A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.​

It's astonishingly clear that "the Second Amendment is a relic of the founding era more than two centuries ago," and "its purpose is long past."

As Justice John Paul Stevens argues persuasively, the amendment should not block the ability of society to keep itself safe through gun control legislation. That was never its intent. This amendment was about militias in the 1790s, and the fear of the anti-federalists of a federal army. Since that issue is long moot, we need not be governed in our national life by doctrines on now-extinct militias from the 18th century.​

"Fair-minded readers have to acknowledge that the text is ambiguous," says Cass Sunstein at Bloomberg View. Justice Antonin Scalia, who wrote the majority opinion in Heller, was laying out his interpretation of a "genuinely difficult" legal question, and "I am not saying that the court was wrong." More to the point: Right or wrong, obsolete or relevant, the Second Amendment essentially means what five justices on the Supreme Court say it means. So "we should respect the fact that the individual right to have guns has been established," but even the pro-gun interpretation laid out by Scalia explicitly allows for banning the kinds of weapons the shooter used to murder 20 first-graders. The real problem is in the political arena, where "opponents of gun control, armed with both organization and money, have been invoking the Second Amendment far more recklessly," using "wild and unsupportable claims about the meaning of the Constitution" to shut down debate on what sort of regulations might save lives.

More: Is the Second Amendment obsolete? - The Week

No, it's more important than ever

 

[The Derp]

you keep saying background checks on all gun transactions, but you cant answer the question of how you do that when a criminal sells a gun to another criminal or trades a gun for a hit of coke.

OMFG...you are being a fucking idiot on purpose, aren't you?

As I said before, background checks won't work on stolen guns because they're stolen.

But fingerprint ID locks would work, which is why it's the second thing I list.

You keep ignoring that, why? Because you don't want to admit that your blanket support for guns is flawed. I think it's even more personal than that...I think you just don't want to admit that what I'm proposing is reasonable because your mushy brain is paranoid and thinks I'm out to get you. I can assure you I'm not. I really, truly do not care about your personal life at all. I doubt anyone does.

 

[The Derp]

I am asking practical questions. you are posting talking points and bullshit."

No, I'm responding to your questions...you're just not getting the answers you want and are finding yourself persuaded by my argument...but because you have the world's shittiest ego, you can't bring yourself to admit that what I'm proposing is reasonable for whatever fucking psychological reason you have.

Explain how what I'm proposing are "talking points" when you agree with me!

• You do agree that guns should have fingerprint ID locks so only the owner can use them, right? Why wouldn't you agree to that?
• And you agree that all gun transactions and transfers should be subject to a background check, right? Why wouldn't you agree to that?
• And surely you agree that domestic abusers shouldn't be allowed to own guns, right? Why wouldn't you agree to that?
• And surely you also agree that terrorists or suspected terrorists shouldn't be allowed to own guns, right? Why wouldn't you agree to that?
• And of course you also agree that mentally ill people should be encouraged to go to mental health treatment and therapy, right? Why wouldn't you agree to that?

I think the reason you won't agree to it is simply a matter of your ego.

I understand finger print locks. I have one on my gun safe. I don't have one on my gun in my car because I don't want to have to say "wait a minute Mr criminal while I activate my fingerprint lock"

How long does it take to activate the fingerprint ID lock on your smart phone? Because mine is instantaneous, the moment I put my finger on the home button of my iphone X.

Your dirty harry vigilante fantasy notwithstanding, I don't see how a fingerprint ID lock for your gun is any different than a safety switch. In fact, you could eliminate the safety switch if you wanted and just have your fingerprint unlock everything. That technology exists.

 

[The Derp]

that is a bold faced lie. Check out the gun deaths in Norway. How about Chicago, toughest gun laws in the nation, and the highest gun death rate.

1. It's "BALD-FACED LIE", not "Bold-faced", you fucking Russian troll.
2. What are the gun deaths in Norway supposed to prove, and by all means, post whatever data you want.
3. Chicago has tough gun laws but the states surrounding Chicago don't, so what happens is that straw purchasers traffic guns into Chicago that are used in crimes. Universal background checks on every gun purchase and transaction and transfer would eliminate straw purchasing.

typo, dipshit.

No it wasn't. Don't fucking lie to me.

Secondly, what about points #2 and #3? No answer for those? Color me shocked.

already answered, and yes it was. I don't give a flying fuck if you believe me.

No you didn't answer them. Not at all. Stop being lazy and do the fucking work.

 

[The Derp]

by keeping guns out of the hands of mentally ill people and by arming the people protecting our children.

Who is protecting the children? Isn't that the job of the police?

You want to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people, but what do you do about the mentally ill people who don't think they're mentally ill and thus, aren't diagnosed as mentally ill and won't show up on a background check?