danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #7,241
Only in the vacuum of special pleading and right wing fantasy is our Second Article of Amendment, a Constitution unto itself.I won't bother taking all that nonsense apart. I'll simply point this outI'm not a legal expert or a credentialed constitutional scholar. However, regardless of how you want to spin the Bill of Rights to justify your extremist position, the FACT is that having millions of law abiders walking around with handguns and long guns is great as it leads to more order. Bad actors know not to try and stick someone up, because their octogenarian victim might turn the tables on them and give them an express ticket to Judgment Day.
Let's take a look at the 2nd amendment line by line.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
This means that the well regulated Militia is formed by the state to guard against the forming of the tyranny of the Federal Government. The problem with this is, as late as 1898, Governors were using their Organized Militia as bully boys to support their Rich Cronies business ventures. In 1898, that happened here. And throughout the history this was done over and over. The intent was good but the application was often times not. But that doesn't change a thing. The intent was the same for the original formation. But due to the Spanish American War, the first part of the National Guard Act was passed but no one really took it seriously. It was tightened up a bit more in 1908. But due to the War Department finally coming to the realization that the original 75,000 strong Army could no longer apply ever again, the law of the National Guard Act of 1917 was passed and it still stands today. All of a sudden, the States had no Organized Militia anymore. And even if they did form a separate State Militia (the name was changed to SDF to get around the new Militia laws) the State could not afford to equip and train their SDF people to the level that the Feds could the National Guard or the Regulars. The intent of the first line of the second amendment became lost. The Feds did take control of it but it was gleefully relinquished by each and every state. The States could have blocked it just by standing together. But with WWI coming on the States were scared shitless. The clause was telling the Feds what they could not do but the States allowed it to happen anyway.
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
People break these two apart. We shouldn't. It's really all one thought. The Rights of the People (or the State) to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed. The Federals cannot infringe on the rights of the State when it comes to firearms. Yes, according to this even the 1934 Firearms Act might be deemed illegal unless it's done under the guise of Public Safety and not under Gun Control which is something entirely different. That should be up for debate at state levels, not Federal Levels. I doubt if the Feds could legally do anything to a State that decides to disregard the 1934 Firearms act in the Supreme Court or any Federal Court unless they can prove that the original intent of the Firearms act was Public Safety. It might be an interesting case. Certainly much more deserving than what is usually tried to argue lately on firearms. The second half of the 2nd amendment is telling the Feds that they cannot infringe on the States Firearms Rights and this includes all people in the State.
While the first half is out of date, the second half is not and stands as it is written. And it must be taken in it's intended purpose by our Founding Fathers and the Bill of Rights.
"This means that the well regulated Militia is formed by the state to guard against the forming of the tyranny of the Federal Government. The problem with this is, as late as 1898, Governors were using their Organized Militia as bully boys to support their Rich Cronies business ventures. In 1898, that happened here. "
So the Constitution gives as one of the purposes and duties of a "Well Regulated Militia" that of putting DOWN insurrections...you acknowledge this and point out several contemporaneous uses (Shay's and the Whiskey Rebellion). But somehow this means the opposite of what it says and how it was used?
You really need to go sit in the corner
The constitution does not at all detail the purpose, need, etc., of militias.
ALL the federal constitution would have jurisdiction over or need to point out would be the rare emergency when the federal government would need and be able to draw on the militias.
That is NOT at all the main point of the militias.
And being able to put down immoral insurrections does not at all imply all insurrections are immoral or should be put down.
Clearly the founders implemented a good insurrection and were VERY fond of the ability to commit insurrections.
They would NEVER have at all implied anything that would prevent needed insurrections, and in fact verbally and in writing said they though insurrections would likely be necessary on a semi regular basis.
And NO, militias are NOT formed by the states alone. They are individual, local, and state. Most militias were private.
Clearly the 2nd amendment implies it is the PEOPLE themselves who form well regulated militias, not states.
The original intent was for the State to control the Militias and the total of all of the Militias to outnumber the total number of Federal Troops allowed by law. Each state did not have to have a larger number but the combined number of all the states had to be a larger number than the legal Federal troops. The Federal Troops were limited to 75,000 for many decades. With the Indian Wars taking up so many of that Federal Total, this gave the Confederates a decided advantage at first. Had it not been for the States Militias being called up, the Confederates would have marched in and taken DC. In those days, it was traditional when you took the other guys capital city the war ended much like taking Richmond ended the Civil War the other direction.
When the 2nd amendment reads Organized Militia, by tradition and wordage, it means the State Controlled Militia not a bunch of dudes wearing pickle suits and waving a bunch of guns while running around the woods.
The 2nd Amendment does not read as mentioning the Organized Militia, but instead mentions that to have a well practiced militia, you need "the people" to be armed already.
It specifically does not mention the Organized Militia, and instead only "the people".