The Sunset Argument about individuals losing their tax cuts

[initforme]

Middle class tax cuts sunsetting should never happen no matter the state of the nation.

 

[nat4900]

The Left has got to stop using the Sunset argument to attack the new Tax bill. There are plenty of areas to attack regarding the bill but this one is a losing argument. I hear democratic congressmen using this talking point in every interview and all it takes is asking them the question, "Would you vote to repeal the individual tax cuts in 7 years?" Of course they aren't going to say yes. We know that Republicans aren't going to repeal them and I seriously doubt that dems would either. It would be political suicide.

For those of you who don't know what the sunset argument is... It is the talking point that the Corporate cuts are permanent and the individual tax cuts are temporary, up for a renewal vote after 7 years. Dems are playing the scenario that after 7 years, if the tax cuts aren't renewed by congress, then everybody's taxes will go up. I'm saying right now that is not realistic, nobody is not going to vote to renew, it is a losing argument. Move on to the next one!

Sorry, but you may be 100% wrong on this......and here's why.....

With this tax scam we have opened ourselves up for EXTORTION......Sure, no GOPers will come out for extending the tax cuts for the middle class.....

BUT, they WILL come out with the "rationale" that to extend those tax cuts, we MUST cut Medicare,Medicaid and deny any raises on SS payments.

Basically Paul Ryan' wet dream coming true.

 

[initforme]

The middle class will take it on the chin...welcome to america. Do not argue this you can't.

 

[Slade3200]

The Left has got to stop using the Sunset argument to attack the new Tax bill. There are plenty of areas to attack regarding the bill but this one is a losing argument. I hear democratic congressmen using this talking point in every interview and all it takes is asking them the question, "Would you vote to repeal the individual tax cuts in 7 years?" Of course they aren't going to say yes. We know that Republicans aren't going to repeal them and I seriously doubt that dems would either. It would be political suicide.

For those of you who don't know what the sunset argument is... It is the talking point that the Corporate cuts are permanent and the individual tax cuts are temporary, up for a renewal vote after 7 years. Dems are playing the scenario that after 7 years, if the tax cuts aren't renewed by congress, then everybody's taxes will go up. I'm saying right now that is not realistic, nobody is not going to vote to renew, it is a losing argument. Move on to the next one!

Sorry, but you may be 100% wrong on this......and here's why.....

With this tax scam we have opened ourselves up for EXTORTION......Sure, no GOPers will come out for extending the tax cuts for the middle class.....

BUT, they WILL come out with the "rationale" that to extend those tax cuts, we MUST cut Medicare,Medicaid and deny any raises on SS payments.

Basically Paul Ryan' wet dream coming true.

Bushes cuts were sunset and obama extended them and then made them perminant with a super majority. I don’t see any party dropping these cuts. I do agree that Ryan’s got a chubby right now for welfare reform, it’s the only way he can pay for these tax cuts. The debt is now blowing up. Trump wants to spend on border and infrastructure so we are about to see some fireworks

 

[depotoo]

I guess I do not understand the Dem's point of view here, I see no reason why a tax cut or tax hike should not be temporary since times and circumstances can change. Maybe those cuts won't be needed down the road. What s the Dem's logic here, what is their beef?

I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t demand it be put in there.

 

[debbiedowner]

I guess I do not understand the Dem's point of view here, I see no reason why a tax cut or tax hike should not be temporary since times and circumstances can change. Maybe those cuts won't be needed down the road. What s the Dem's logic here, what is their beef?

The logic behind their opposition to the tax plan (which I actually agree isn't a very good plan), is that it benefits the corporations more than the middle class. Money from the poor to the rich. The Corporate tax cuts being permanent and the individual tax cuts being temporary feeds that narrative... I just don't think it is a strong argument.

I wouldn't say it's the greatest tax plan either, but to say that it takes money from the poor to the rich is nonsense. The poor aren't paying any taxes to begin with, and I believe this new tax plan increases the number of non-payers. As for the corp tax cuts being permanent, the next Congress and President can change that PDQ if they have the votes.
And so far as I know there is or was no other country in the world with a higher corp tax rate than the US, which is significant factor int he decision for many to shift their ops offshore enough to keep them here and even bring back some who have left. Yes, it helps the rich but it also helps so many of us in the middle class who have savings invested in 401ks. It is dumbshit stupid to shoot ourselves in the foot by adopting policies that restrict economic growth just because some rich guys are going to get richer. As long as the rest of us get richer too and more jobs get created OR SAVED (loved that one when the Dems came up with it), let's go for it.

I pay taxes and I will lose out and anyone that currently used a form 2106 to take certain job expenses not reimbursed by employer, that is now gone starting Jan 1. All the public sees after doing their tax calculations are Oh I will pay lower taxes, I think you all better delve into this bill and talk to your accountants. Some are going to rejoice and some that are cheering for it at this moment are going to say WTF happened here.

 

[debbiedowner]

3% of $10M = $300K (for thj mmp)

3% of $50K = $1500 (one months rent)

I think I'm becoming a Leftist?
Did "they"really need an additional $300K? While babies freeze to death in NorCal?
It ain't the meat, its the motion.

PLEASE tell me that isn't how you figured out it was a tax cut for the rich????

Because one gets back more money, that makes it a tax cut for the rich???

And, we wonder how this country got so fucked up .....

I thought other bottom brackets could be lowered (10% instead of 12%, corp 20% vs. 21% etc.). High income could go to 40% for all I care, no reduction IMVHO. the "rich" needed SALT help? bullhockey.

Edit: and I like clean numbers, 5, 10, 25, 40 etc. Things are better but still so complicated? 7 brackets? Why so many pages of Tax Code still? what is in there? What is that Wall st. Interest pass thru McConnell and others refused to eliminate? Trump had promised?

I understand much of it. A 5% flat tax below $50K, 15% above? Great. Sign me up.

No funny business would be great. But they built up pensions and 30 years of debt, $10T just newly added.

You want some answers? Google taxpro forums, plenty of answers about this.

 

[debbiedowner]

The Left has got to stop using the Sunset argument to attack the new Tax bill. There are plenty of areas to attack regarding the bill but this one is a losing argument. I hear democratic congressmen using this talking point in every interview and all it takes is asking them the question, "Would you vote to repeal the individual tax cuts in 7 years?" Of course they aren't going to say yes. We know that Republicans aren't going to repeal them and I seriously doubt that dems would either. It would be political suicide.

For those of you who don't know what the sunset argument is... It is the talking point that the Corporate cuts are permanent and the individual tax cuts are temporary, up for a renewal vote after 7 years. Dems are playing the scenario that after 7 years, if the tax cuts aren't renewed by congress, then everybody's taxes will go up. I'm saying right now that is not realistic, nobody is not going to vote to renew, it is a losing argument. Move on to the next one!

Sorry, but you may be 100% wrong on this......and here's why.....

With this tax scam we have opened ourselves up for EXTORTION......Sure, no GOPers will come out for extending the tax cuts for the middle class.....

BUT, they WILL come out with the "rationale" that to extend those tax cuts, we MUST cut Medicare,Medicaid and deny any raises on SS payments.

Basically Paul Ryan' wet dream coming true.

Shit, ss increases will be cut due to the new chained CPI index they included. Which by the way people should do some studying. Seems if the gdp doesn't grow like they think they will take from these programs to pay for tax cuts.

 

[nat4900]

Shit, ss increases will be cut due to the new chained CPI index they included. Which by the way people should do some studying. Seems if the gdp doesn't grow like they think they will take from these programs to pay for tax cuts.

Indeed, Debbie.......the GDP cannot grow from the 2.5% to 6% as the orange moron predicts.......demand for goods and services will not be there since the middle class is getting about 17% of these tax cuts........

Conversely, there is a fallback position among the Paul Ryans within congress....If the GDP does not grow fast enough, THEN there will be an "argument" that social security and Medicare MUST be cut.........(but never any talk that corporations should be taxed higher.)

....

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

That built-in sunset was a pretty nice move by the GOP. It's a poison pill to blame on the democrats if an extension is not passed.

 

[radical right]

All the public sees after doing their tax calculations are Oh I will pay lower taxes, I think you all better delve into this bill and talk to your accountants. Some are going to rejoice and some that are cheering for it at this moment are going to say WTF happened here.

That WTF moment won't happen until they start calculating their 2018 taxes between january 2019 and april 2019.

 

[debbiedowner]

All the public sees after doing their tax calculations are Oh I will pay lower taxes, I think you all better delve into this bill and talk to your accountants. Some are going to rejoice and some that are cheering for it at this moment are going to say WTF happened here.

That WTF moment won't happen until they start calculating their 2018 taxes between january 2019 and april 2019.

You're probably right, but if their accountants are worth a grain of salt they should be letting them know when they do their taxes for 2017.

 

[radical right]

That WTF moment won't happen until they start calculating their 2018 taxes between january 2019 and april 2019.

You're probably right, but if their accountants are worth a grain of salt they should be letting them know when they do their taxes for 2017.

Why would their accountant be calculating their 2018 taxes this april? Except to tell them the bad news about what would happen the next year.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

"Vote GOP or your taxes will go up."



The worthless GOP finally figures out how to play dirty like the communist democrats have been doing for decades.

 

[task0778]

I guess I do not understand the Dem's point of view here, I see no reason why a tax cut or tax hike should not be temporary since times and circumstances can change. Maybe those cuts won't be needed down the road. What s the Dem's logic here, what is their beef?

The logic behind their opposition to the tax plan (which I actually agree isn't a very good plan), is that it benefits the corporations more than the middle class. Money from the poor to the rich. The Corporate tax cuts being permanent and the individual tax cuts being temporary feeds that narrative... I just don't think it is a strong argument.

I wouldn't say it's the greatest tax plan either, but to say that it takes money from the poor to the rich is nonsense. The poor aren't paying any taxes to begin with, and I believe this new tax plan increases the number of non-payers. As for the corp tax cuts being permanent, the next Congress and President can change that PDQ if they have the votes.
And so far as I know there is or was no other country in the world with a higher corp tax rate than the US, which is significant factor int he decision for many to shift their ops offshore enough to keep them here and even bring back some who have left. Yes, it helps the rich but it also helps so many of us in the middle class who have savings invested in 401ks. It is dumbshit stupid to shoot ourselves in the foot by adopting policies that restrict economic growth just because some rich guys are going to get richer. As long as the rest of us get richer too and more jobs get created OR SAVED (loved that one when the Dems came up with it), let's go for it.

I pay taxes and I will lose out and anyone that currently used a form 2106 to take certain job expenses not reimbursed by employer, that is now gone starting Jan 1. All the public sees after doing their tax calculations are Oh I will pay lower taxes, I think you all better delve into this bill and talk to your accountants. Some are going to rejoice and some that are cheering for it at this moment are going to say WTF happened here.

I believe that just about every person that does not itemize deductions is going to get a tax cut and that's a whole lot of people. Including me and the wife BTW.

 

[task0778]

The middle class will take it on the chin...welcome to america. Do not argue this you can't.

I doubt you would listen anyway, your mind has already closed. But no, the middle class WILL get a tax cut, and to deny that is to deny reality.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

"The Democrats are going to raise taxes on the middle and working class."



What a great move. I never thought the dog shit GOP could play dirty and set traps like the thug POS ass wipes in the communist DNC have done for no less than 70 years..

 

[radical right]

I believe that just about every person that does not itemize deductions is going to get a tax cut and that's a whole lot of people. Including me and the wife BTW.

Itemized Deductions. Itemizing your deductions means listing out each deduction you qualify for. People do this when the sum of all their deductions is greater than the standard amount. Some things people might itemize include medical expenses, large charitable donations and mortgage interest payments.

 

[task0778]

I believe that just about every person that does not itemize deductions is going to get a tax cut and that's a whole lot of people. Including me and the wife BTW.

Itemized Deductions. Itemizing your deductions means listing out each deduction you qualify for. People do this when the sum of all their deductions is greater than the standard amount. Some things people might itemize include medical expenses, large charitable donations and mortgage interest payments.

Sure, but if the total amount of allowed itemized deductions doesn't exceed the standard deduction then people won't itemize. Which we don't, did for awhile during the earlier years when we were paying a lot interest on our mortgage, but eventually it wasn't worth it to itemize any more. And there's a whole lot of people in that boat with us. And those are the people who WILL get a tax cut. Depending on what your definition of middle class is, we're talking about the majority of tax filers.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

"The Democrats are trying raise taxes on the poor."



Oh, payback is a motherfucking BITCH, ain't it, dem-commies? Take your pinko medicine.