The Third Rail -- 3rd Party Thread

[Pogo]

OK, since the site seems to be channeling attention into the Clinton/Trump Duopoly, a/k/a Tweedle Dee/Tweedle Dumb, and since said Republicrat/Demoblican Duopoly is in dire need of some outside energy to challenge it, rather than just obsequiously follow along going "yes masters, may we have more of the same old thing", now therefore let us create this alternative channel for the candidates that are not named Clinton or Trump. Let this be the wellspring to make the case for, or simply to inform about, any candidates outside the System.

Some facts first:

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump have been nominated by a party. The respective parties must take that step at their conventions. In the Democrats' case Bernie Sanders is still running in hopes of usurping "pledged" Clinton delegates; in the case of the Republicans a similar "conscience" vote may nullify the primary results depending on how they address their own rules (they did something similar in 1912 when Teddy Roosevelt breezed through primary elections winning most of the states but was snubbed at the convention).

This thread will not be intended for those points; just pointing out the fact.

Fact Two: since the 1988 election, national televised debates have been run under the auspices of something called the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is an outright collusion by the two major party (singular intentional) to ensure that they can jointly negotiate what topics and what alternative candidates will be avoided, thus ensuring nobody who challenges their supreme Duopoly will get a voice in it. Hence the pressing need to bring those alternative voices out.

So bring forth your Gary Johnsons and your Jill Steins, your Darrell Castles and your Gloria LaRivas. Show us what they're about, and more importantly ---- what the issues and views are that the Duopoly doesn't want us to know about. As well, tell us who should be running as 3P if they didn't get the nomination of the Duopoly Party.

​

flacaltenn
Lucy Hamilton
boedicca

Whoa there sport. I reject your premise. You must be smoking some wicked stuff if you are classifying Trump as " yes master, can I have some more of the same old thing". You are aware that the GOP establishment hates the big orange clown, aren't you? On the Donkey side, sure, the pantsuit bull dyke is what the Dems forced down their followers throat. Nice try, but you missed on the premise, the orange clown is a long way from McCain or Romney.

I speak there of the robotic zombified thinking of "must..... vote ...... Democrat ..... or...... Republican.... ". It refers to the vision thing, or lack thereof, the binary thinking that the Duopoly is all there is. In any year.

And as I already pointed out in the OP --- neither Rump nor Clinton is a nominated candidate anyway, and there's no guarantee that they will be the nominees.

This thread is to counterbalance that binary zombiethink that seems to be locked not only into the Duopoly, but to their presumptive nominees before they've even been nominated.

Seems pointless, either a dem or rep will be the next POTUS, and highly likely either Orange clown or pantsuit bull dyke.

Self-fulfilling prophecy. If you do what you've always done you'll get what you always got.

I agree but this is a team sport not just yourself. You cant make other people vote for a 3rd party no matter how much you want them too.

That isn't the point here. The point is something outside the Established Duopoly has the right to say "I exist". The point is to resist that binary thinking and open the possibilities.

 

[PredFan]

OK, since the site seems to be channeling attention into the Clinton/Trump Duopoly, a/k/a Tweedle Dee/Tweedle Dumb, and since said Republicrat/Demoblican Duopoly is in dire need of some outside energy to challenge it, rather than just obsequiously follow along going "yes masters, may we have more of the same old thing", now therefore let us create this alternative channel for the candidates that are not named Clinton or Trump. Let this be the wellspring to make the case for, or simply to inform about, any candidates outside the System.

Some facts first:

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump have been nominated by a party. The respective parties must take that step at their conventions. In the Democrats' case Bernie Sanders is still running in hopes of usurping "pledged" Clinton delegates; in the case of the Republicans a similar "conscience" vote may nullify the primary results depending on how they address their own rules (they did something similar in 1912 when Teddy Roosevelt breezed through primary elections winning most of the states but was snubbed at the convention).

This thread will not be intended for those points; just pointing out the fact.

Fact Two: since the 1988 election, national televised debates have been run under the auspices of something called the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is an outright collusion by the two major party (singular intentional) to ensure that they can jointly negotiate what topics and what alternative candidates will be avoided, thus ensuring nobody who challenges their supreme Duopoly will get a voice in it. Hence the pressing need to bring those alternative voices out.

So bring forth your Gary Johnsons and your Jill Steins, your Darrell Castles and your Gloria LaRivas. Show us what they're about, and more importantly ---- what the issues and views are that the Duopoly doesn't want us to know about. As well, tell us who should be running as 3P if they didn't get the nomination of the Duopoly Party.

​

flacaltenn
Lucy Hamilton
boedicca

Whoa there sport. I reject your premise. You must be smoking some wicked stuff if you are classifying Trump as " yes master, can I have some more of the same old thing". You are aware that the GOP establishment hates the big orange clown, aren't you? On the Donkey side, sure, the pantsuit bull dyke is what the Dems forced down their followers throat. Nice try, but you missed on the premise, the orange clown is a long way from McCain or Romney.

I understand you, but none of us really know that do we? Trump is a man who can change himself into who he needs to be at any time. At the end of his 4 years, he could end up being some more of the same old thing. You don't know that he won't.

 

[Asclepias]

Whoa there sport. I reject your premise. You must be smoking some wicked stuff if you are classifying Trump as " yes master, can I have some more of the same old thing". You are aware that the GOP establishment hates the big orange clown, aren't you? On the Donkey side, sure, the pantsuit bull dyke is what the Dems forced down their followers throat. Nice try, but you missed on the premise, the orange clown is a long way from McCain or Romney.

I speak there of the robotic zombified thinking of "must..... vote ...... Democrat ..... or...... Republican.... ". It refers to the vision thing, or lack thereof, the binary thinking that the Duopoly is all there is. In any year.

And as I already pointed out in the OP --- neither Rump nor Clinton is a nominated candidate anyway, and there's no guarantee that they will be the nominees.

This thread is to counterbalance that binary zombiethink that seems to be locked not only into the Duopoly, but to their presumptive nominees before they've even been nominated.

Seems pointless, either a dem or rep will be the next POTUS, and highly likely either Orange clown or pantsuit bull dyke.

Self-fulfilling prophecy. If you do what you've always done you'll get what you always got.

I agree but this is a team sport not just yourself. You cant make other people vote for a 3rd party no matter how much you want them too.

That isn't the point here. The point is something outside the Established Duopoly has the right to say "I exist". The point is to resist that binary thinking and open the possibilities.

I dont think the point is to obtain a hollow victory. Your actions have consequences outside of you making an idealistic point. You can resist binary thinking without cutting off your nose to spite your face. At some point there is a reality that needs to be addressed. The person that gets elected will appoint judges that interpret laws. They will also represent your country internationally. i always tell people to register as an independent if you want to make a point.

 

[Carla_Danger]

You're too late for ballots in most states, and there are many that won't allow write-in's either.

Actually there are seven -- Arkansas, Hawaii, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, Oklahoma, South Dakota. It's bizarre that there are any, but most of those are dedicated red or blue states anyway.

There's no Green party in my state or write-ins. I'm not even sure why I bother to vote, but I always do.

 

[LoneLaugher]

OK, since the site seems to be channeling attention into the Clinton/Trump Duopoly, a/k/a Tweedle Dee/Tweedle Dumb, and since said Republicrat/Demoblican Duopoly is in dire need of some outside energy to challenge it, rather than just obsequiously follow along going "yes masters, may we have more of the same old thing", now therefore let us create this alternative channel for the candidates that are not named Clinton or Trump. Let this be the wellspring to make the case for, or simply to inform about, any candidates outside the System.

Some facts first:

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump have been nominated by a party. The respective parties must take that step at their conventions. In the Democrats' case Bernie Sanders is still running in hopes of usurping "pledged" Clinton delegates; in the case of the Republicans a similar "conscience" vote may nullify the primary results depending on how they address their own rules (they did something similar in 1912 when Teddy Roosevelt breezed through primary elections winning most of the states but was snubbed at the convention).

This thread will not be intended for those points; just pointing out the fact.

Fact Two: since the 1988 election, national televised debates have been run under the auspices of something called the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is an outright collusion by the two major party (singular intentional) to ensure that they can jointly negotiate what topics and what alternative candidates will be avoided, thus ensuring nobody who challenges their supreme Duopoly will get a voice in it. Hence the pressing need to bring those alternative voices out.

So bring forth your Gary Johnsons and your Jill Steins, your Darrell Castles and your Gloria LaRivas. Show us what they're about, and more importantly ---- what the issues and views are that the Duopoly doesn't want us to know about. As well, tell us who should be running as 3P if they didn't get the nomination of the Duopoly Party.

​

flacaltenn
Lucy Hamilton
boedicca

Whoa there sport. I reject your premise. You must be smoking some wicked stuff if you are classifying Trump as " yes master, can I have some more of the same old thing". You are aware that the GOP establishment hates the big orange clown, aren't you? On the Donkey side, sure, the pantsuit bull dyke is what the Dems forced down their followers throat. Nice try, but you missed on the premise, the orange clown is a long way from McCain or Romney.

I speak there of the robotic zombified thinking of "must..... vote ...... Democrat ..... or...... Republican.... ". It refers to the vision thing, or lack thereof, the binary thinking that the Duopoly is all there is. In any year.

And as I already pointed out in the OP --- neither Rump nor Clinton is a nominated candidate anyway, and there's no guarantee that they will be the nominees.

This thread is to counterbalance that binary zombiethink that seems to be locked not only into the Duopoly, but to their presumptive nominees before they've even been nominated.

I love that shit

You have a diverse audience here, Pogo. It includes people like me who don't have robotic, zombified thinking when it comes to politics. The duopoly isn't necessarily the fault of the electorate....but more likely owed to the way that debate participants are decided and how polls are administered.

I've looked into Johnson and Weld....heard them both speak and watched some of their convention. I've made a thoughtful, reasoned decision to not vote for them. Just as I have made a thoughtful, reasoned decision to vote for Clinton. You can run around calling every thoughtful Clinton voter or Trump voter a zombie if you like. Have a party.

In this cycle, the libertarians.......who should be on the debate stage.....have taken advantage of the train wreck going on in the GOP and the undeniable perception that Clinton is a lying bitch to gain some added notariety. That is fine. But...it doesn't make the libertarian platform any more attractive to people who are not zombies.

 

[Two Thumbs]

OK, since the site seems to be channeling attention into the Clinton/Trump Duopoly, a/k/a Tweedle Dee/Tweedle Dumb, and since said Republicrat/Demoblican Duopoly is in dire need of some outside energy to challenge it, rather than just obsequiously follow along going "yes masters, may we have more of the same old thing", now therefore let us create this alternative channel for the candidates that are not named Clinton or Trump. Let this be the wellspring to make the case for, or simply to inform about, any candidates outside the System.

Some facts first:

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump have been nominated by a party. The respective parties must take that step at their conventions. In the Democrats' case Bernie Sanders is still running in hopes of usurping "pledged" Clinton delegates; in the case of the Republicans a similar "conscience" vote may nullify the primary results depending on how they address their own rules (they did something similar in 1912 when Teddy Roosevelt breezed through primary elections winning most of the states but was snubbed at the convention).

This thread will not be intended for those points; just pointing out the fact.

Fact Two: since the 1988 election, national televised debates have been run under the auspices of something called the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is an outright collusion by the two major party (singular intentional) to ensure that they can jointly negotiate what topics and what alternative candidates will be avoided, thus ensuring nobody who challenges their supreme Duopoly will get a voice in it. Hence the pressing need to bring those alternative voices out.

So bring forth your Gary Johnsons and your Jill Steins, your Darrell Castles and your Gloria LaRivas. Show us what they're about, and more importantly ---- what the issues and views are that the Duopoly doesn't want us to know about. As well, tell us who should be running as 3P if they didn't get the nomination of the Duopoly Party.

​

flacaltenn
Lucy Hamilton
boedicca

Gary is going to run and Bern should run as well, either as an (I) or SP.

Gary has no chance of doing more than 3% of the vote with the +/- 3%.

Trump actually is 3rd party; he's blending some con views with liber, but really he's a liberal.

The rest of the out parties have no chance, ever, unless we rid ourselves of the political process that forces the 2 party system on us.

every pary should have an equal shot and equal say in the debates.

If that means there are 50 people running for Pres, then so be it.

 

[Mac1958]

This cycle really has been disappointing regarding this topic.

Given the candidates from the "major" (cough) parties, it's amazing that a serious independent run hasn't been made. Bloomberg, Webb, somebody.

If not THIS cycle, then WHEN?

The two "major" (cough) parties may be too entrenched at this point. That would be really, really bad news.


.

 

[Mac1958]

OK, since the site seems to be channeling attention into the Clinton/Trump Duopoly, a/k/a Tweedle Dee/Tweedle Dumb, and since said Republicrat/Demoblican Duopoly is in dire need of some outside energy to challenge it, rather than just obsequiously follow along going "yes masters, may we have more of the same old thing", now therefore let us create this alternative channel for the candidates that are not named Clinton or Trump. Let this be the wellspring to make the case for, or simply to inform about, any candidates outside the System.

Some facts first:

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump have been nominated by a party. The respective parties must take that step at their conventions. In the Democrats' case Bernie Sanders is still running in hopes of usurping "pledged" Clinton delegates; in the case of the Republicans a similar "conscience" vote may nullify the primary results depending on how they address their own rules (they did something similar in 1912 when Teddy Roosevelt breezed through primary elections winning most of the states but was snubbed at the convention).

This thread will not be intended for those points; just pointing out the fact.

Fact Two: since the 1988 election, national televised debates have been run under the auspices of something called the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is an outright collusion by the two major party (singular intentional) to ensure that they can jointly negotiate what topics and what alternative candidates will be avoided, thus ensuring nobody who challenges their supreme Duopoly will get a voice in it. Hence the pressing need to bring those alternative voices out.

So bring forth your Gary Johnsons and your Jill Steins, your Darrell Castles and your Gloria LaRivas. Show us what they're about, and more importantly ---- what the issues and views are that the Duopoly doesn't want us to know about. As well, tell us who should be running as 3P if they didn't get the nomination of the Duopoly Party.

​

flacaltenn
Lucy Hamilton
boedicca

Gary is going to run and Bern should run as well, either as an (I) or SP.

Gary has no chance of doing more than 3% of the vote with the +/- 3%.

Trump actually is 3rd party; he's blending some con views with liber, but really he's a liberal.

The rest of the out parties have no chance, ever, unless we rid ourselves of the political process that forces the 2 party system on us.

every pary should have an equal shot and equal say in the debates.

If that means there are 50 people running for Pres, then so be it.

I sure would love to see more competition.

But obviously, at some point, the electoral college system would have to be dumped.

On balance, I could live with that.
.

 

[there4eyeM]

Dump the electoral college.
Institute campaign limits.
Establish real debates run in the most objective fashion possible.
Put reasonable term limits in place.
Aggressively monitor lobbying.

These elements are necessary to development of more political parties.

End the two-party dictatorship.

 

[320 Years of History]

I like the "the government doesn't belong in my bedroom or wallet" theme Mr. Johnson has expressed.

I watched the CNN town hall with the two Libertarian candidates. I am fine with them. I especially liked that they both seem like "real people." Moreover, and more importantly to me, they actually answered the questions they were asked. That shows a level of respect for the voters/questioners than I'm accustomed to seeing from the two presumptive nominees of the major parties.

Mr. Johnson seems a little "crunchy" to me. I'll have wait and see to determine whether that characteristic translates into something I actually give a damn about one way or the other, but I doubt it will. I don't know if it is or isn't. In and of itself, I don't care. Heck, it might even be interesting to have a President who wears Birkenstocks with his suit. LOL (For the literalists on here, no, I don't really think he'd do that.)

Bill Weld seems like a serious guy. I'm okay with him too.

Some good information about Libertarianism is here:

• Libertarianism - By Branch / Doctrine - The Basics of Philosophy -- This is a great place to start exploring Libertarianism if you are an intellectual sort of person who is also well educated and doesn't find reading things carefully and fully to be a PITA. (It's great for poorly educated folks too, but that's you, you'll have a lot of reading to do to get a good understanding of some of the ideas discussed if you aren't already very familiar with the thinkers and movements referenced at this site. The necessary information is offered via well written summaries at other places on the same site.)
• What Kind of Libertarian Are You? -- If you can only stand "sound bite" grade information, this is a good place to start.
  
• — The 8 Types Of Libertarian -- If you can take a bit more "meat" than is found in "sound bites," this is a good place to start.
  
• If you are the sort who finds "reality" TV captivating and has considered visiting (or actually visited) a tarot card or palm readers, or if you prefer to be told where you fit it, one of these sites may be for you:
  • What Kind of Libertarian Are You?
    
  • What type of libertarian are you?, a SelectSmart.com Politics selector. Ask about my top result.
• If you would like to hear what one Libertarian has to say, you may find this podcast interesting.
  
  

As for myself, I used to be a Libertarian, one of the "crunchy" ones in fact. I'm now an Independent, and as that suggests, my views aren't entirely encapsulated by any existing party. I'm just not a "party" guy, but I do donate money to candidates and/or political parties once I've settled on one for a given election. How much depends on how badly I want to see a given candidate win, but generally, I will donate enough to ensure that if I want to be heard, I will be heard. I haven't decided whether to donate to the Libertarian Party or to Libertarian candidates, or any other party/candidate this election cycle.

 

[Tehon]

Unfortunately the Green Party and others will likely NOT be on enough state ballots to represent the 270 electoral needed to win. But the LP will be. And I've worked closely with the Green Party on mutual ballot/debate access issues.

If the Johnson ticket polls 15% and the DNC/RNC crybabies STILL throw a fit --- it will be the BEST media coverage we could ever hope for.

If anyone wants a CURRENT view of Johnson/Weld -- CNN just did a 1 hour Libertarian Town Hall and ran the 2 guys through the wringer on everything from ISIS to prison reform and drug war policy. Easy to find the PodCasts or the summary on the web..

Unfortunately the Green Party and others will likely NOT be on enough state ballots to represent the 270 electoral needed to win.

False, the Green Party currently has access to 20 state ballots representing a total of 296 electoral votes.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I voted what I thought was the lesser of 2 evils when I voted for Dubya the first time, man was I wrong

 

[LoneLaugher]

The libertarian party platform places no trust in government or elected officials. . Instead, it entrusts corporations and unelected leaders with the steering wheel.

It demands that government stay out of contractual agreements between individuals or other entities.....which ignores the fact that contracts don't exist without government's ability to enforce them.

Fun stuff. But not practical.

 

[320 Years of History]

The libertarian party platform places no trust in government or elected officials.

Black bold:
??? Why put forth a candidate for election in the U.S. if one doesn't trust elected officials?

I trust "you" right now because you aren't elected. But once you are elected, I will no longer trust you. Who does that?

 

[LoneLaugher]

The libertarian party platform places no trust in government or elected officials.

Black bold:
??? Why put forth a candidate for election in the U.S. if one doesn't trust elected officials?

I trust "you" right now because you aren't elected. But once you are elected, I will no longer trust you. Who does that?

Yeah....words. Ain't they funny?

 

[Divine Wind]

I'm voting my conscience this election. I've tried the "lesser of two evils" strategy several times and it doesn't have any effect. In fact, things have gotten worse over the years.

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket.

I've always voted straight Libertarian with the exception of the POTUS and the cases of course where no LP candidate is running. There are many reasons I don't bother with the LP POTUS candidate, but the main reason is that I believe that we need to bring them in from the bottom up. The more that the people see local and state LP office holders doing the right thing, the better change we can eventually take the big desk.

I was disappointed in the LP's choice of candidate this year. I really wanted that younger guy, who's name suddenly escapes me.

Agreed on "we need to bring them in from the bottom up." Like you, in past years I've voted LP for local and state elections, then held my nose and voted for main party candidates in national elections. No more.

 

[PredFan]

I'm voting my conscience this election. I've tried the "lesser of two evils" strategy several times and it doesn't have any effect. In fact, things have gotten worse over the years.

I'm voting a straight Libertarian ticket.

I've always voted straight Libertarian with the exception of the POTUS and the cases of course where no LP candidate is running. There are many reasons I don't bother with the LP POTUS candidate, but the main reason is that I believe that we need to bring them in from the bottom up. The more that the people see local and state LP office holders doing the right thing, the better change we can eventually take the big desk.

I was disappointed in the LP's choice of candidate this year. I really wanted that younger guy, who's name suddenly escapes me.

Agreed on "we need to bring them in from the bottom up." Like you, in past years I've voted LP for local and state elections, then held my nose and voted for main party candidates in national elections. No more.

I totally understand your frustration. I haven't made my mind up yet.

 

[Divine Wind]

Dump the electoral college.
Institute campaign limits.
Establish real debates run in the most objective fashion possible.
Put reasonable term limits in place.
Aggressively monitor lobbying.

These elements are necessary to development of more political parties.

End the two-party dictatorship.

Agreed, but all of those actions require Congressional action and neither the Republicans nor the Democrats have an interest in doing any of those things regardless of how much lip-service they give to it.

 

[kaz]

OK, since the site seems to be channeling attention into the Clinton/Trump Duopoly, a/k/a Tweedle Dee/Tweedle Dumb, and since said Republicrat/Demoblican Duopoly is in dire need of some outside energy to challenge it, rather than just obsequiously follow along going "yes masters, may we have more of the same old thing", now therefore let us create this alternative channel for the candidates that are not named Clinton or Trump. Let this be the wellspring to make the case for, or simply to inform about, any candidates outside the System.

Some facts first:

Neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump have been nominated by a party. The respective parties must take that step at their conventions. In the Democrats' case Bernie Sanders is still running in hopes of usurping "pledged" Clinton delegates; in the case of the Republicans a similar "conscience" vote may nullify the primary results depending on how they address their own rules (they did something similar in 1912 when Teddy Roosevelt breezed through primary elections winning most of the states but was snubbed at the convention).

This thread will not be intended for those points; just pointing out the fact.

Fact Two: since the 1988 election, national televised debates have been run under the auspices of something called the Commission on Presidential Debates, which is an outright collusion by the two major party (singular intentional) to ensure that they can jointly negotiate what topics and what alternative candidates will be avoided, thus ensuring nobody who challenges their supreme Duopoly will get a voice in it. Hence the pressing need to bring those alternative voices out.

So bring forth your Gary Johnsons and your Jill Steins, your Darrell Castles and your Gloria LaRivas. Show us what they're about, and more importantly ---- what the issues and views are that the Duopoly doesn't want us to know about. As well, tell us who should be running as 3P if they didn't get the nomination of the Duopoly Party.

​

flacaltenn
Lucy Hamilton
boedicca

One pertinent question. If you had to choose between Twiddly dee or dum who would you feel is the lesser of two evils? As much as I dislike Clinton I dont think voting 3rd party this year is wise. We simply dont have the numbers. Every non vote for Clinton is a vote for Trump.

When you finally realize what a load of crap that is and that they actually are the same, then you will be free. Like I was in 1990 when I left the Republican party. You like Clinton more because she tells you more what you want to hear, but there is no substance behind that. Just like I realized with the Republicans. Republicans talk about things like budget cuts and smaller, freer government. But I finally saw they did the reverse. The Obama Presidency has been a clone of the high spending, militaristic W Presidency. What they do is reality, not what they say

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

This cycle really has been disappointing regarding this topic.

Given the candidates from the "major" (cough) parties, it's amazing that a serious independent run hasn't been made. Bloomberg, Webb, somebody.

If not THIS cycle, then WHEN?

The two "major" (cough) parties may be too entrenched at this point. That would be really, really bad news.


.

Webb is holding out for the VP slot on the Democratic Ticket and Bloomberg is all words now and no substance anymore.

I agree this was the year for a true Third Party Candidate and I can live with Johnson but when Mitt Romney knew that Trump was going to win he ( Mitt ) should have gotten a platform together and ran someone or endorse someone to give those that voted for him some alternative.

Also Bernie Sanders is a sellout to me. At first I liked the crazy Uncle idea but he will just bow to Clinton while she win her nomination. Sanders should endorse Jill Stein for President seeing Bernie is more Green than Democratic.

I am voting for Johnson and to those that are stuck on the idea that you have to vote for either the Democratic or Republican candidate, well to me you are the problem and what is wrong with this country because of the fact too many people vote for the worthless candidates the two party system has given us and it is time to say no more.

I know many will not because of the fact many vote straight ticket and believe their political party does no wrong no matter what!