The three main goals of libertarianism

[konradv]

The source for your chart is a former propaganda arm of the the Soviet Union.

So is Putin, but the wingnuts seem to be hanging on his every word these days AND applauding!!!

 

[Bfgrn]

You are truly an ignorant fuck, dude. Seriously.

What's worse the occasional ignorant fuck or the the delusions of grandeur libertarians develop by telling us they'll be able to fashion a new form of governance in complete opposition to human nature? Can anyone else see they're just the flip side of the Marxist coin?

The closest twin we have in America today to the communists and Marxists in Russia are the 'Marketists'; conservatives, libertarians and 'free marketeers' who have turned government nonintervention and 'laissez faire' into a religion. It has created 'malaise faire'

Blind Faith

For a country that has prided itself on its resourcefulness, the inability to address our problems suggests something deeper at work. There is something, powerful but insidious, that blinds us to the causes of these problems and undermines our ability to respond. That something is a set of beliefs, comparable to religious beliefs in earlier ages, about the nature of economies and societies. These beliefs imply the impropriety of government intervention either in social contexts (libertarianism) or in economic affairs (laissez faire).

The faithful unquestioningly embrace the credo that the doctrine of nonintervention has generated our most venerated institutions: our democracy, the best possible political system; and our free market economy, the best possible economic system. But despite our devotion to the dogmas that libertarianism and free market economics are the foundation of all that we cherish most deeply, they have failed us and are responsible for our present malaise.

The pieties of libertarianism and free markets sound pretty, but they cannot withstand even a cursory inspection. Libertarianism does not support democracy; taken to an extreme, it entails the law of the jungle. If government never interferes, we could all get away with murder. Alternatively, if the libertarian position is not to be taken to an extreme, where should it stop? What is the difference between no government and minimal government? Attempts to justify libertarianism, even a less than extreme position, have failed. Laissez faire, or free market economics, characterized by minimal or no government intervention, has a history that is long but undistinguished. Just as the negative effects of a high fever do not certify the health benefits of the opposite extreme, hypothermia, the dismal failure of communism, seeking complete government control of the economy, does not certify the economic benefits of the opposite extreme, total economic non-intervention.


The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived and dishonest – but the myth – persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic. Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
President John F. Kennedy

 

[bripat9643]

You are truly an ignorant fuck, dude. Seriously.

What's worse the occasional ignorant fuck or the the delusions of grandeur libertarians develop by telling us they'll be able to fashion a new form of governance in complete opposition to human nature? Can anyone else see they're just the flip side of the Marxist coin?

The closest twin we have in America today to the communists and Marxists in Russia are the 'Marketists'; conservatives, libertarians and 'free marketeers' who have turned government nonintervention and 'laissez faire' into a religion. It has created 'malaise faire'

Anyone who believes libertarians bare any similarity to communists is a fucking moron.

It's as simple as that.

 

[Eric Cartman]

The source for your chart is a former propaganda arm of the the Soviet Union.

Also, the US healthcare system has far better outcomes that any of the systems you are comparing it against. That doesn't make Americans healthier than the citizens of other countries, however.

Yes, nothing screams individual liberty like forcing everyone into a govt. run healtcare plan.

Nothing screams "I am ignorant" more than so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds supporting the private Wall Street run cartel that is the most expensive on the planet, and is near the bottom of the heap for all measurable outcomes.

But here is the real mantra of so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds:

NEVER, EVER let common sense distract us from our doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

OK tell us what data on the chart is wrong.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

The source for your chart is a former propaganda arm of the the Soviet Union.

So is Putin, but the wingnuts seem to be hanging on his every word these days AND applauding!!!

 

[Eric Cartman]

What's worse the occasional ignorant fuck or the the delusions of grandeur libertarians develop by telling us they'll be able to fashion a new form of governance in complete opposition to human nature? Can anyone else see they're just the flip side of the Marxist coin?

The closest twin we have in America today to the communists and Marxists in Russia are the 'Marketists'; conservatives, libertarians and 'free marketeers' who have turned government nonintervention and 'laissez faire' into a religion. It has created 'malaise faire'

Anyone who believes libertarians bare any similarity to communists is a fucking moron.

It's as simple as that.

I think flip side means opposite extreme.

,

 

[Bfgrn]

Nothing screams "I am ignorant" more than so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds supporting the private Wall Street run cartel that is the most expensive on the planet, and is near the bottom of the heap for all measurable outcomes.

But here is the real mantra of so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds:

NEVER, EVER let common sense distract us from our doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

I'll ask a second time. How do you plan to make American Health Care cheaper? How will government management of my health care dollars make my health care at my doctor cheaper?

That's simple. The State is omnipotent, can forcast futures, innovate better than private enterprise and creates giant amounts of revenue through production.

Explain this Einstein...

There is one factor common to the top 15 countries with lower trends in mortality rates for their adult population. They all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment. The bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship.

Has any capitalistic industrialized country tumbled down any 'slippery slope to socialism' because they have a government run universal health care?

 

[Oddball]

Yes, nothing screams individual liberty like forcing everyone into a govt. run healtcare plan.

Nothing screams "I am ignorant" more than so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds supporting the private Wall Street run cartel that is the most expensive on the planet, and is near the bottom of the heap for all measurable outcomes.

But here is the real mantra of so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds:

NEVER, EVER let common sense distract us from our doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

Nothing screams "I am ignorant" more than the user handle Bfgrn....Lest we mention bigoted, chronically victimized and terminally pissed off at the whole world.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

I'll ask a second time. How do you plan to make American Health Care cheaper? How will government management of my health care dollars make my health care at my doctor cheaper?

That's simple. The State is omnipotent, can forcast futures, innovate better than private enterprise and creates giant amounts of revenue through production.

Explain this Einstein...

There is one factor common to the top 15 countries with lower trends in mortality rates for their adult population. They all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment. The bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship.

Has any capitalistic industrialized country tumbled down any 'slippery slope to socialism' because they have a government run universal health care?

Answer this, you dumb fucking retard:

Does forcing people into government run healthcare sound like individual liberty to you?

If it does, feel free to exist the fucking thread, and discontinue any further opening of your frothy mouth regarding libertarianism for good. you're advocating for the state to redistribute wealth in healthcare to bring costs down and saying that libertarians should support that.

You're either on heavy meds, or the dumbest fuck I've ever had to clean the I-spittle off my shoes after "debating".

 

[Bfgrn]

What's worse the occasional ignorant fuck or the the delusions of grandeur libertarians develop by telling us they'll be able to fashion a new form of governance in complete opposition to human nature? Can anyone else see they're just the flip side of the Marxist coin?

The closest twin we have in America today to the communists and Marxists in Russia are the 'Marketists'; conservatives, libertarians and 'free marketeers' who have turned government nonintervention and 'laissez faire' into a religion. It has created 'malaise faire'

Anyone who believes libertarians bare any similarity to communists is a fucking moron.

It's as simple as that.

Simple? That would describe you and the rest of the right. Can you READ?

You turds have turned capitalism, which is an economic system into a religion just as Marxist have turned communism into a religion.

Extremes at both ends look IDENTICAL to each other, BOTH extremes are just as far from the middle and mainstream thought.

The real mantra of so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds:

NEVER, EVER let common sense distract us from our doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

 

[Bfgrn]

That's simple. The State is omnipotent, can forcast futures, innovate better than private enterprise and creates giant amounts of revenue through production.

Explain this Einstein...

There is one factor common to the top 15 countries with lower trends in mortality rates for their adult population. They all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment. The bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship.

Has any capitalistic industrialized country tumbled down any 'slippery slope to socialism' because they have a government run universal health care?

Answer this, you dumb fucking retard:

Does forcing people into government run healthcare sound like individual liberty to you?

If it does, feel free to exist the fucking thread, and discontinue any further opening of your frothy mouth regarding libertarianism for good. you're advocating for the state to redistribute wealth in healthcare to bring costs down and saying that libertarians should support that.

You're either on heavy meds, or the dumbest fuck I've ever had to clean the I-spittle off my shoes after "debating".

Does forcing people to pay cartels ransom money every single month and STILL have no assurance when you have a life threatening illness your treatment will be covered or refuse to pay ransom money and face bankruptcy or even death sound like liberty to you?

The only frothing at the mouth is coming from you. You didn't answer the question. You never do, all you continue to do is chant doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

That is not making an argument, it is parroting. Parrots don't think, they mimic.

 

[Bfgrn]

Yes, nothing screams individual liberty like forcing everyone into a govt. run healtcare plan.

Nothing screams "I am ignorant" more than so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds supporting the private Wall Street run cartel that is the most expensive on the planet, and is near the bottom of the heap for all measurable outcomes.

But here is the real mantra of so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds:

NEVER, EVER let common sense distract us from our doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

I'll ask a second time. How do you plan to make American Health Care cheaper? How will government management of my health care dollars make my health care at my doctor cheaper?

Two ways. Eliminate third party profit, and put more money in your pocket in more than one way. In return you will pay a tax that will be much less than what you gain.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Explain this Einstein...

There is one factor common to the top 15 countries with lower trends in mortality rates for their adult population. They all have strong state funding of single-payer universal health care, instead of insurance based health care tied to employment. The bottom four countries – Germany, USA, Portugal and Switzerland – all depend more heavily on profit-based, private health insurance provided primarily through the employer/employee relationship.

Has any capitalistic industrialized country tumbled down any 'slippery slope to socialism' because they have a government run universal health care?

Answer this, you dumb fucking retard:

Does forcing people into government run healthcare sound like individual liberty to you?

If it does, feel free to exist the fucking thread, and discontinue any further opening of your frothy mouth regarding libertarianism for good. you're advocating for the state to redistribute wealth in healthcare to bring costs down and saying that libertarians should support that.

You're either on heavy meds, or the dumbest fuck I've ever had to clean the I-spittle off my shoes after "debating".

Does forcing people to pay cartels ransom money every single month and STILL have no assurance when you have a life threatening illness your treatment will be covered or refuse to pay ransom money and face bankruptcy or even death sound like liberty to you?

The only frothing at the mouth is coming from you. You didn't answer the question. You never do, all you continue to do is chant doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

That is not making an argument, it is parroting. Parrots don't think, they mimic.

OK, I'm just going to leave you to it. You're far too stupid to bother with going forward.

 

[Oddball]

Does forcing people to pay cartels ransom money every single month and STILL have no assurance when you have a life threatening illness your treatment will be covered or refuse to pay ransom money and face bankruptcy or even death sound like liberty to you?

Nobody was forced to purchase insurance until the individual mandate in Oblolshevikcare, you rabid screeching moonbat.

The only frothing at the mouth is coming from you. You didn't answer the question. You never do, all you continue to do is chant doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

That is not making an argument, it is parroting. Parrots don't think, they mimic.

Good thing you don't project....Much.

 

[dblack]

Does forcing people to pay cartels ransom money every single month and STILL have no assurance when you have a life threatening illness your treatment will be covered or refuse to pay ransom money and face bankruptcy or even death sound like liberty to you?

Not at all. It sounds like PPACA. What argument are you making here?

 

[RKMBrown]

Nothing screams "I am ignorant" more than so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds supporting the private Wall Street run cartel that is the most expensive on the planet, and is near the bottom of the heap for all measurable outcomes.

But here is the real mantra of so called 'libertarians' who are really just right wing turds:

NEVER, EVER let common sense distract us from our doctrinaire, dogma and ideology.

I'll ask a second time. How do you plan to make American Health Care cheaper? How will government management of my health care dollars make my health care at my doctor cheaper?

Two ways. Eliminate third party profit, and put more money in your pocket in more than one way. In return you will pay a tax that will be much less than what you gain.

Third party? Your talking about health insurance carriers not health care providers. I asked how you plan to make health care cheaper not health insurance. But ok, I'll go along.

1) I can get around third party insurance providers today, by simply paying as I go. I don't need government to force me to buy into their single payer plan to do that.

2) So you are saying you also want to throw out Obuma care and replace that with a single payer health care plan managed by the Government, for example something like Medicare only on steriods where no one can get care without being forced to buy it through the government. Fine. How much? I currently get my health care for 450 a month for a family of five. How much will your single payer plan cost me each month, please provide an estimate of how much your plan will save me and my family and some meaningful backup to prove that you can get me what I want for less money than I currently get what I want.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What part of "not all people pay all taxes" is confusing you?

The part where you think that there is anyone in this country that does not pay taxes.

Where in my statement "not all people pay all taxes" do you derive your belief that I think that there are people in this country that do not pay any taxes?

Do I need to explain what the word all means? Do you disagree with my specific examples of the majority of people that do not pay personal income tax? How many additional examples of particular people that do not pay particular taxes do you need to see before you agree that "not all people pay all taxes?"

What the fuck? Seriously? Does someone have to bitch slap you to explain what the word not means?

Tell me something, genius, what the fuck do you think "Not all people pay taxes" means? Either all people pay taxes, which is irrefutable when you factor in sales, use, and all the other taxes that you cannot avoid if you live in the US, or some people do not pay taxes, which is it?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

"Corporations are people my friend." - Mitt Romney

Since he was making the point that raising taxes on corporations means raising taxes on people, he was right. Do you think corporate taxes are paid out of magic money?

No, I think that corporate taxes at least partially address the externalities that OhhPooPahDoo made reference to. If that raises the cost of the final product, it's still a more realistic price than it would have been without it.

All taxes are paid by people.

Let me clarify that for you.

All taxes are paid by people.

Not even poop in the pants can figure out a way to argue with that, and he routinely argues that people are not corporations.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Dude, use your imagination a little. When I say they can intervene immediately in public, I mean if you're being accosted by some gang bangers in a public place, they can use deadly force if neccessary to protect you.

Tell that to all the people who get mugged every year.

The fucking cops cannot and do not protect you from crime.

Tell me what you think would happen if there were no police.

There would be fewer muggers because people would kill them instead of waiting for the police to come by afterwards and pretend to care.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Tell me what you think would happen if there were no police.

It wouldn't be much different. There wouldn't be as many speeding tickets or bullshit fines handed out because the main function of the cops is to act as a revenue collection arm of the state.

What state do you live in? I'll try to remember not to go there.

What state do you live in where you think that is not the reality?