The Truth about Mormons

[Zona]

What year did they say Blacks were not sub human? 78 or 79?

1829. before the Church was founded. Read the Book of Mormon sometime and you wouldnt look so ignorant.

What year did they say Blacks were not sub human? 78 or 79?

1829. before the Church was founded. Read the Book of Mormon sometime and you wouldnt look so ignorant.

Pressure was also felt by the LDS during the 1970's because of the LDS' institutionalized racism. The IRS was threatening to cancel the church's non-profit tax exempt status. University sports teams were refusing to compete in Utah. This pressure was relieved on 1978-JUN-6 when the church received a new revelation from God to end the practice of discrimination against persons of African-American heritage

Racism in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons)

Ignorance indeed.

Comment?

 

[California Girl]

If only we would stop electing self-serving, dishonest, idiots.

That would be a giant step forward, wouldn't it?

Maybe if fewer voters based their votes on TV ads and party affiliation, we could at least begin to accomplish such a miracle.

Indeed, that would be a leap in the right direction. Sadly, with our current education system teaching us what to think instead of how to think, it would take some effort. Still, just because something is hard does not mean it is not achievable or not worth trying.

 

[mskafka]

I have started this post because it still seems there are a lot of people out there that don't understand our religion. One thing I know I can do is clarify a lot misconceptions that people have.
I served a two year mission in South Africa, and I think I have pretty much heard it all. I actually would welcome some questions that I haven't heard before.
I know some of you aren't interested in what we really believe, but are only going to be interested in trying to trap me in my words, but that's ok. I welcome those attempts as well. Let's see what this develops into.

I'm sure that this has already been mentioned on here, but my issue is with polygamy. I realize that this practice doesn't represent the majority of Mormons. Glenn Beck isn't helping my view. I wouldn't want him representing my faith, just as I wouldn't want Michael Moore representing it.

One of my Mormon friends recently gave me a dissertation on why polygamy was justified. There was some merit to the argument (fewer men due to war, a woman being widowed, etc...) but does that really translate to the current times?

 

[necritan]

Glenn Beck is a mormon. Nuff said.

He's also a Libertarian, a recovering alcoholic, and a really nice guy but don't let that stop you accusing him of being a rabid republican hatemonger..... Stupidity is not illegal, have at it.

So, Glenn is a nice guy, and a Mormon - you just proved my point. Mormons are decent people. Thanks Zona.

Beck is a Libertarian? Really? Where does he stand on abortion and legalization of drugs, then? It would seem that there wouldn't be very many Libertarian Mormons because of those two issues.

As for him being a "nice guy", that's a matter of opinion.

Tell me where the hell Libertarians view abortion as ok..???

 

[Skeptik]

He's also a Libertarian, a recovering alcoholic, and a really nice guy but don't let that stop you accusing him of being a rabid republican hatemonger..... Stupidity is not illegal, have at it.

So, Glenn is a nice guy, and a Mormon - you just proved my point. Mormons are decent people. Thanks Zona.

Beck is a Libertarian? Really? Where does he stand on abortion and legalization of drugs, then? It would seem that there wouldn't be very many Libertarian Mormons because of those two issues.

As for him being a "nice guy", that's a matter of opinion.

Tell me where the hell Libertarians view abortion as ok..???

At the risk of further derailing this thread:

Sure. It's right here.

Reproductive Rights: Pro-choice, but opposes all federal funding of abortion and most federal entitlements for women who choose to carry their pregnancies to term, including the child tax credit. Opposes involuntary or fraudulent sterilization.

 

[Avatar4321]

Comment?

First, you really need to learn how to quote properly.

Second, as I pointed out earlier, you should actually read the Book of Mormon sometime. If you did you would know that our doctrine since it was translated was the following:

33 For none of these iniquities come of the Lord; for he doeth that which is good among the children of men; and he doeth nothing save it be plain unto the children of men; and he inviteth them all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; and he remembereth the heathen; and all are alike unto God, both Jew and Gentile. (2 Nephi 26:33)

Sure sounds "sub-human" there, does it?

Again, if you bothered to read the Book you would know that.

 

[Avatar4321]

You would need to ask Glenn. I don't speak on behalf of others.... however, I will say that I find it perfectly understandable. I am pro-life and Catholic. However, I am also a believer in individual rights and responsibilities so, although I am pro-life, I also believe that it is not my place to tell another person that they cannot have an abortion - because that is inflicting my opinion on your life.

If everybody believed, as I do, that we are each responsible for ourselves, the country would be what the founding fathers intended it to be.... a beacon of true democracy and a glorious republic. An example for the rest of the world to aspire to and envy. We were that country once, and we could be again......

If only we would stop electing self-serving, dishonest, idiots.

Honestly, I think we vote politicians that accurately reflect the state of our nation. We say we want honest, selfless, intelligent people, yet we keep voting for as you put it "self-serving, dishonest, idiots." Unfortunately, I fear this is because they accurately represent the views of too many people. We live in a culture of corruption. Where dishonesty is rewarded. Where people dont care about real knowledge, only looking intelligent so they can get more money or live in comfort.

Until enough of the people change their lives to be living selfless honest lives, we cannot expect that they would reasonably pick people that would reflect those values.

 

[necritan]

Beck is a Libertarian? Really? Where does he stand on abortion and legalization of drugs, then? It would seem that there wouldn't be very many Libertarian Mormons because of those two issues.

As for him being a "nice guy", that's a matter of opinion.

Tell me where the hell Libertarians view abortion as ok..???

At the risk of further derailing this thread:

Sure. It's right here.

Reproductive Rights: Pro-choice, but opposes all federal funding of abortion and most federal entitlements for women who choose to carry their pregnancies to term, including the child tax credit. Opposes involuntary or fraudulent sterilization.

Some stupid guys "Guide to the third biggest party" article really sums up such a hot issue like abortion.

Libertarians view abortion as a grey area in general. Those are those who view the fetus as a legitimate human..w/ rights.....and those who view the opposite.

Sorry....Libertarians as a whole do not view abortion as ok. One thing you got right though is that the ones who do view abortion as ok have no need for government assistance or involvement.

 

[Skeptik]

Tell me where the hell Libertarians view abortion as ok..???

At the risk of further derailing this thread:

Sure. It's right here.

Reproductive Rights: Pro-choice, but opposes all federal funding of abortion and most federal entitlements for women who choose to carry their pregnancies to term, including the child tax credit. Opposes involuntary or fraudulent sterilization.

Some stupid guys "Guide to the third biggest party" article really sums up such a hot issue like abortion.

Libertarians view abortion as a grey area in general. Those are those who view the fetus as a legitimate human..w/ rights.....and those who view the opposite.

Sorry....Libertarians as a whole do not view abortion as ok. One thing you got right though is that the ones who do view abortion as ok have no need for government assistance or involvement.

As a Libertarian, I think you have the right to your opinion, however wrong I think it is. The quote is from a summary of the Libertarian platform. Clearly, the philosophy is to allow individuals to make that choice, just like any other choice.

OK, back to the subject at hand.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Hey guys....wanna go have some beer's...????

How bout some Root Beers?

 

[Truthspeaker]

What year did they say Blacks were not sub human? 78 or 79?

Never

 

[Truthspeaker]

I have started this post because it still seems there are a lot of people out there that don't understand our religion. One thing I know I can do is clarify a lot misconceptions that people have.
I served a two year mission in South Africa, and I think I have pretty much heard it all. I actually would welcome some questions that I haven't heard before.
I know some of you aren't interested in what we really believe, but are only going to be interested in trying to trap me in my words, but that's ok. I welcome those attempts as well. Let's see what this develops into.

I'm sure that this has already been mentioned on here, but my issue is with polygamy. I realize that this practice doesn't represent the majority of Mormons. Glenn Beck isn't helping my view. I wouldn't want him representing my faith, just as I wouldn't want Michael Moore representing it.

One of my Mormon friends recently gave me a dissertation on why polygamy was justified. There was some merit to the argument (fewer men due to war, a woman being widowed, etc...) but does that really translate to the current times?

You are right that this topic has been one of the most consistently brought up. I have dealt with it and answered that very question dozens of times. I have to go to sleep tonight but if you continue reading on you will most assuredly find the answers within the first ten pages of this thread in detail. Please read those and I promise to get back to you tomorrow. Thank you for positively contributing to the thread as many have nothing but smut to sling around. I'm grateful for all people who ask the toughest possible questions they can without holding back for fear of breaking my faith. Trust me. I have heard it before. C-ya tomorrow.

 

[Eightball]

What year did they say Blacks were not sub human? 78 or 79?

Never

By denying black people the opportunity to take part in your Priesthood, wouldn't that be treating them as lesser beings than those of other races?

Also, didn't your church teach that their black skin color was a curse based on your latter day prophet's interpretation of Cain and Abel?

Then miraculously one of your church president/prophets had a "miraculous" word from god saying that the curse was off, around the time that your church was under public scrutiny for denying priesthood to the black members?

 

[Skeptik]

What year did they say Blacks were not sub human? 78 or 79?

Never

By denying black people the opportunity to take part in your Priesthood, wouldn't that be treating them as lesser beings than those of other races?

Also, didn't your church teach that their black skin color was a curse based on your latter day prophet's interpretation of Cain and Abel?

Then miraculously one of your church president/prophets had a "miraculous" word from god saying that the curse was off, around the time that your church was under public scrutiny for denying priesthood to the black members?

Do Catholics believe women are sub human?

 

[Truthspeaker]

By denying black people the opportunity to take part in your Priesthood, wouldn't that be treating them as lesser beings than those of other races?

You might think so when you present the concept the way YOU do; with no background or context. But we're not presenting the same concept you are assuming.

Also, didn't your church teach that their black skin color was a curse based on your latter day prophet's interpretation of Cain and Abel?

No, that was not the case. That was a misunderstanding of Brigham Young's statements.

Then miraculously one of your church president/prophets had a "miraculous" word from god saying that the curse was off, around the time that your church was under public scrutiny for denying priesthood to the black members?

Again, aqcuiring an understanding of the doctrine itself and the context with the history will serve you well.

Such an acquisition you could have made if you would ever read any of my posts. You really are without excuse. You've been trolling around since almost the beginning of this thread so either you're pretending you didn't read my previous answer on the subject or you are so oblivious that it makes sense. Which is it? I can't wait to hear your next spin-answer.

 

[Avatar4321]

By denying black people the opportunity to take part in your Priesthood, wouldn't that be treating them as lesser beings than those of other races?

Also, didn't your church teach that their black skin color was a curse based on your latter day prophet's interpretation of Cain and Abel?

Then miraculously one of your church president/prophets had a "miraculous" word from god saying that the curse was off, around the time that your church was under public scrutiny for denying priesthood to the black members?

No. If you are familiar with the Bible, youd realize that not all people are entitled to the Priesthood at all histories of the world. In the days of Moses the Priesthood was limited to the lineage of Aaron among the levites. A few of the tribe of Rueben tried to demand the priesthood, they were killed by God.

So did God's limitation of the priesthood to Aaron's seed at this time mean everyone else was subhuman?

Does the fact that Christ preached the Gospel to the Jews and did not teach the Gentiles mean that the Gentiles are subhuman? They werent even allowed to be taught the Gospel for a time! And then later just "convenient" recieved a revelation to take the Gospel to the Gentiles when the Jews wouldnt hear it anymore. Is that what you really believe?

It's been prophecied since the days of Joseph Smith that the Priesthood would go to all the world. And all were invited to come to Christ from the beginning. One of the largest reasons Governor Boggs issued the order to kill all mormons in Missouri was because the Mormons were against slavery and had no problem teaching the Gospel to blacks. One of the ultimate sins in a slave state. Sub human? Not coming from the mormons.

If the "revelation" was going to come because of convenience, it would have come in the 1950s when President McKay wanted to allow all to recieve the priesthood. It would have come in the 1960s when there was actual political pressure to change it. It wouldn't have come in 1978 when the political pressure was long since past.

And it had nothing to do with political pressure anyway. It had everything to do with the first Temple in Brazil being built and and the desire of the First Presidency and Twelve that the blessings be given to all people as promised. it came through fasting and prayer. Of not only the leadership but alot of other people who knew the time was coming.

You can try to attack us all you want. You can lie and mislead people about what we believe. But your own attacks will destroy your own faith much faster than ours. Christ gave His life for us. And through Him both the living and the dead can be redeemed. All mankind will hear the voice of the Gospel. All will have an opportunity to recieve the blessings. No one is sub human. To pretend otherwise is absurd.

 

[Eightball]

Avatar:

Your assumption goes this way........Levites=light skinned people.......

There are skin color gradations of every human race; Mongoloid, Caucazoid, Negroid, and Australoid.

All 4 recognized races can and do come in very dark pigmentation, and are not all of the Negroid race which for the most part is of African continental origin.

Your premise falls apart as the bible just says that they are Levites. Levites as well as the other 11 tribes brought with them Egyptian slaves, and also those of Egypt that went along with the Exodus. This is all in the O.T.. Of those Egyptians many were accepted into Judaism by marriage, and by strict Hebrew regulation.

No doubt many Levites were very dark skinned as well as their cousins of the other 11 tribes.

To distinguish who could participate in the LDS priesthood based on skin color really came down to separating-out those of the Negroid race in particular. Right? A person who might be of Mexican ancestry that would most likely be Caucasian and Mongoloid mix could easily have very dark skin pigmentation. Were they singled out as those of the African/Negroid race? Think about it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Book of Mormon will founder on the continuing DNA evidence.

The majority of FARMS/FAIR (Mormon apologetic think tanks) are going to try the "Limited Geography" argument for the Jewish immigrants into an isolated area in Central or South America. The BoM and contemporary documents of the 1830s and 1840s are going to blow that defense sky high.

The next defense after that may be more successful. It will be the BoM is "metaphorical", the story "reflects true principles before the foundation of the world", not a literal story.

Watch and see.

 

[Avatar4321]

The Book of Mormon will founder on the continuing DNA evidence.

The majority of FARMS/FAIR (Mormon apologetic think tanks) are going to try the "Limited Geography" argument for the Jewish immigrants into an isolated area in Central or South America. The BoM and contemporary documents of the 1830s and 1840s are going to blow that defense sky high.

The next defense after that may be more successful. It will be the BoM is "metaphorical", the story "reflects true principles before the foundation of the world", not a literal story.

Watch and see.

There is no DNA evidence. You cant have DNA evidence when you dont know what the original DNA looks like. Do you have a strand of Lehi's DNA? How about his wife? or Ismael and his wife? Zoram? Do you know what Lamanite DNA looked like after the change? Until you do you cant say it's not there. If you pretend otherwise you arent looking at the DNA evidence that actually exists. Which, of course, is non-existant.

Let's go even alittle more general. Do you have any DNA any of Joseph of Egypts descendents prior to the Assyrian/Babylonian exiles? We don't even have that much.

Till you have some DNA, you can't say that DNA evidence proves the Book of Mormon inaccurate. You have nothing to test. We have no DNA evidence.

And that's excluding the obvious effects of DNA from other populations being introduced at later point in time. Or the populations that exists before they arrived.

No, I have no doubt the we will continue to teach the truth. The Book of Mormon is real. It happened. Get used to it.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar:

Your assumption goes this way........Levites=light skinned people.......

There are skin color gradations of every human race; Mongoloid, Caucazoid, Negroid, and Australoid.

All 4 recognized races can and do come in very dark pigmentation, and are not all of the Negroid race which for the most part is of African continental origin.

Your premise falls apart as the bible just says that they are Levites. Levites as well as the other 11 tribes brought with them Egyptian slaves, and also those of Egypt that went along with the Exodus. This is all in the O.T.. Of those Egyptians many were accepted into Judaism by marriage, and by strict Hebrew regulation.

No doubt many Levites were very dark skinned as well as their cousins of the other 11 tribes.

To distinguish who could participate in the LDS priesthood based on skin color really came down to separating-out those of the Negroid race in particular. Right? A person who might be of Mexican ancestry that would most likely be Caucasian and Mongoloid mix could easily have very dark skin pigmentation. Were they singled out as those of the African/Negroid race? Think about it.

Skin color has never been a factor in anything with the priesthood.