The Truth about Mormons

[catzmeow]

Great question, as for what my heart tells me, I don't think it is going to go over well with those guys. They will probably miss out on the millienium, but since I am not God, I can't say what their final state will be. He knows all the little details and circumstances that nobody knows. I just have to worry about my own salvation.

Lame. I thought you were here to provide doctrinal answers to those sorts of questions. Instead, it appears you are playing dodgeball with the uncomfortable ones.

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine

When the wicked depart this life, they are 'cast out into outer darkness,' into hell, where 'they have no part nor portion of the Spirit of the Lord,' where they are spiritually dead. (Alma 40:13-14.) They remain spiritually dead in hell until the day of their resurrection (D. & C. 76:103-112), until 'death and hell' deliver up the dead which are in them, so that they may be judged according to their works" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 757).

"The great majority of those who have suffered in hell will pass into the telestial kingdom; the balance, cursed as sons of perdition, will be consigned to partake of endless woe with the devil and his angels" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 350).

 

[Truthspeaker]

The Book of Mormon teaches that after death, the spirits of those who "chose evil works rather than good" in mortality will be "cast out into outer darkness". This is considered to be a condition of great torment, where there will be "weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth". In this sense, outer darkness and spirit paradise are the two possible destinations for individuals immediately after death. This place of torment in the spirit world is much more commonly referred to by modern Latter-day Saints as spirit prison.

Almost all the way right. However spirit prison is a much more desirable place than outer darkness. Spirit "prison" as it is called is more like an extension of the life one lives in ignorance. the "paradise" is more the enlightened state of happiness and knowledge of the gospel in the spirit world. You don't want to be in spirit prison because you still haven't accepted the gospel yet and can't have a fulness of joy.
But outer darkness is the worst place in the universe to be. That's where people like mass murderers and rapists and the like will go for 1000years. A person with that type of temperment probably wouldn't accept the gospel in the spirit prison either, I am sure there may be 1 or two individual exceptions but who knows. Outer darkness is all bad.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I'm not angry. I just think that protelytizing deserves a rebuking.

You do understand the difference between people who are born with a specific skin color, and cannot change it, and people who knowingly make a decision to join an organization that, until the mid 1970s, was totally racist?

I also get mad at Christian Identity Skinheads. Same diff.

For a mormon to call ANYONE a racist is absurd in the extreme given your scriptures positions on race. "White and delightsome," anyone?

Yet again, I am glad you brought up another common point of misconception that is so easily twisted by people like you. Before I waste my breath, however, you need to read my post on blacks and the priesthood. go back and learn. Then you can attack again, unsuccessfully.

 

[catzmeow]

Yet again, I am glad you brought up another common point of misconception that is so easily twisted by people like you. Before I waste my breath, however, you need to read my post on blacks and the priesthood. go back and learn. Then you can attack again, unsuccessfully.

I'm already familiar with the LDS church's changing positions of blacks. In fact, it appears from our posts that I'm more familiar with the subject and what your prophets have had to say on the matter, than you are.

 

[Truthspeaker]

How can it not be considered Morman history when it was carried out by Mormans?


Please , Im not trying to be harsh but I would like my original question answered which is what does the Morman church teach its members about this church history?


Mountain Meadows massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Mountain Meadows massacre and Mormon public relations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Why did Young and the church deny involvement at the time?

You didn't read the article I posted. Young denied involvement because he wasn't involved. It was 2 days before he got the message when it had already happened. It wasn't like he got an IM on his cell phone and could respond right away. Read the article. It is the correct history, it is on the church's official website, I don't know how you can say we don't teach about it.

 

[catzmeow]

It is the correct history, it is on the church's official website.

Because, we know that these two things ALWAYS go hand in hand.

 

[Truthspeaker]

And yet, you've failed to respond to this. My information was accurate. Do you want proof?

Here is General Authority Mark S. Peterson's commentary on race. It includes several quotes from Brigham Young.

Elder Mark S. Peterson
Race Problems -- As They Affect The Church
Convention of Teachers of Religion on the College Level,
Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah, August 27, 1954.







This is the church you belong to. Own it.

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1967 version
p. 114

pp. 102.


p. 343



SPENCER W. KIMBALL
General Conference Report, October, 1960.
Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-923.


You belong to an organization that has a history of being EVERY BIT as racist as the KKK. The fact that you don't know your own church's history does not make me an "anti-Mormon." Don't come here spewing your nonsense until you are well-versed in all aspects of your faith, including the ugly ones.

I hope everyone is paying very close attention........................
Listen carefully, I would like to first and again thank you for bringing up another issue which on the surface can make us look really bad until you do all the research.
Interesting that you bring up the 1967 version of Mormon Doctrine which was actually published not by the Church itself but from the well versed and Brilliant Bruce R. McKonkie. However, would we all agree that people as individuals are not perfect? I think we have established that clearly. These individuals were far less racist than most of their white counterparts who were not members of the church, that being said. I will show you now that the official doctrine of the church remains unscathed and perfect.

After the Revelation of 1978, many things were changed, the doctrines of Mark Peterson and Bruce R. McKonkie were declared false doctrine by none other than the prophet of his time Spencer W. Kimball, leading to a revised version of the book by Bruce McKonkie who revised it himself. President Kimball also retracted his words and stated that he was declaring his opinion at the time and not the word of the Lord. Prophets are people too. We all can make mistakes. It is clear that they did this because they forgot about the words of the Prophet Joseph Smith who prophesied that the Negro would eventually have the priesthood restored before the coming of Christ. Again, you really need to read my previous post. It will educate you and perhaps take away some of the bitterness you have.

Yet again, I have shown that I know my doctrine better than an angry ex-mormon who posts the lower half of some gothic teenage drug addict as his avatar and calls himself "naughty"

 

[Truthspeaker]

Call it conscience or whatever, consider the following, given gays should have all the rights of others, what would give the Mormon church the right to interfere in the rights of another?

Sheldon Rampton: Mormon Homophobia

We don't see it the way you do. I respect your opinion and I feel you are trying to do the right thing. We voted as citizens for what we feel to be right because we don't believe homosexuality is approved by god. It is our teaching and we know it offends some people but we can't go back on it. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Mormonism does not tolerate gays and lesbians. Any Mormon member that confesses homosexuality is automatically forced to appear in front of Church Courts. These Courts then decide whether the homosexual transgressions merit either excommunication or dis-fellowshipping. Mormons who have practiced homosexual intercourse with the same sex are automatically excommunicated.

The leaders of the Mormon Church teach that a man is a God-Embryo and therefore cannot be born gay. Mormon leaders teach that homosexuals choose their lifestyles. They teach that this choice came about from sinful parents, masturbation, or willful disobedience of the commandments of God. All blame for the sin of homosexuality is placed on the person causing depression, hopelessness and often - suicide.

Mormon Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley stated on Larry King Live (December 2004), "We know they have a problem [homosexuals]. We want to help them solve that problem. ...... The fact is, they have a problem."

During the 1970's the practice of electro-shock therapy was used at the LDS Church owned Brigham Young University. There, homosexuals were electrocuted in an attempt to stop homosexual tendencies.

This heinous homosexual sin is of the ages. Many cities and civilizations have gone out of existence because of it. It was present in Israel’s wandering days, tolerated by the Greeks, and found in the baths of corrupt Rome."
- Prophet Spencer W. Kimball, "President Kimball Speaks Out on Morality," LDS New Era, Nov. 1980, Page 39

Kimball said it is better to have never been born then to be a homosexual.

New Horizons for Homosexuals

Most of that is true except forcing of people to appear before church court, they don't have to physically go, but by refusing to go rebel against the church and must not be numbered among us if they don't want to follow the principles of the gospel. As for the electro shock therapy experiment, it was an independant study with willing participants who were trying to find a way to cure themselves of their problem. You act like it was the electric chair when you said electrocute. They weren't tortured or anything.

Like I said earlier, this is not a Mormon apology thread. We believe what we believe.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Stop it, you evil anti-Mormons. How dare you challenge Truthspeaker's faith!!???!!!

Yet another ignoramus comment. I started the thread and opened up the forum for questions. I have invited all of your challenges. I just hope others can ask for the purpose of finding the truth about us rather than trying to prove me wrong. I have not tried to prove any other faith wrong. I am only carifying what I believe to be true. But you can't help yourself, thank God I know my doctrine or you would overwhelm some poor member who is new in the faith.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Just curious, is your wife still active in her faith?

Great, he wants to try and tear down her faith. He's a wolf in wolfs clothing. Not too sly.

 

[Truthspeaker]

[

sounds reasonable






there is no proof to the contrary




homos kill themselves at a very high rate and it is most often not due to non acceptance..






they most definitely have a problem and... deserve help






they use it for depression and schizophrenia..how where the results ?







true enough and those nasty disease hole bath house in frisco they had to order them shut to curb aids

there is always redemption cant agree with that one...[/QUOTE]


President Kimball wasn't saying there wasn't redemption. There is always redemption according to our doctrine.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Lame. I thought you were here to provide doctrinal answers to those sorts of questions. Instead, it appears you are playing dodgeball with the uncomfortable ones.

Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine

You are cunning, but not smart. Just because I didn't play the role of God and assume there will be no redemption for these people, you say I dodged the question. How stupid are you?
Maybe it's not stupid, you might be what the scriptures call, "drunken with anger" or some other substance like the chic on your avatar.

You don't read my posts about the afterlife and how complex it is because I don't think you can comprehend it, or you wouldn't have made such a statement. You posted that you gave your live to Jesus, but now he doesn't call any more. No wonder.
Next question please.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I'm already familiar with the LDS church's changing positions of blacks. In fact, it appears from our posts that I'm more familiar with the subject and what your prophets have had to say on the matter, than you are.

yet again you are wrong. It is time to bow down.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Because, we know that these two things ALWAYS go hand in hand.

Some of "us" apparently don't

 

[chloe]

Most of that is true except forcing of people to appear before church court, they don't have to physically go, but by refusing to go rebel against the church and must not be numbered among us if they don't want to follow the principles of the gospel. As for the electro shock therapy experiment, it was an independant study with willing participants who were trying to find a way to cure themselves of their problem. You act like it was the electric chair when you said electrocute. They weren't tortured or anything.

Like I said earlier, this is not a Mormon apology thread. We believe what we believe.

That was information that was documented in earlier times. I have not given my opinion on it. There is a documentary being made about it. Sorry for the confusion. I will look for the link if you like where it said that.

 

[Truthspeaker]

That was information that was documented in earlier times. I have not given my opinion on it. There is a documentary being made about it. Sorry for the confusion. I will look for the link if you like where it said that.

No worries, it was close enough. I have enjoyed all of your posts because you are not a psychotic deviant like some I have encountered.

 

[catzmeow]

I have invited all of your challenges.

And failed to answer most of them with any evidence at all.

I just hope others can ask for the purpose of finding the truth about us rather than trying to prove me wrong.

Actually, I think you're more interested in representing the party line than in the truth.

You know what they say, though. The truth will set you free. I hope you someday lay hands on it.

 

[catzmeow]

No worries, it was close enough. I have enjoyed all of your posts because you are not a psychotic deviant like some I have encountered.

Gosh, does anyone think he's talking about me?

 

[Truthspeaker]

quite bloody likely