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I responded between the 15th and 18th pages but he or you didn't read them to check up that. I also responded again somewhere between the 21st and 22nd pages but you didn't read that either otherwise you would have quoted it in the gray area.
Why would I quote it when it is patently false? I rebutted you by providing actual evidence that your church leaders did in fact teach EXACTLY what you say they didn't teach. Specifically, Brigham Young and Spencer Kimball, but Bruce R. McConkie is responsible for providing much of the doctrine of the church, as well, and is looked upon as an authority in that area.
Now I know why my grandfather didn't like converts, they find what they think is the greatest thing in the world and then spout off as if they are authorities without ever really knowing, much less understanding, the religion.
FakeSpeaker, you do remember what the doctrine teaches about the most persecuted correct, and yet you converts are persecuting the gay community.
If you are talking about California Prop 8, it is hard to say they are persecuting the gay community. The Mormon population of California isn't sufficient in and of itself to have passed the Proposition. Rather, it was more the black vote that did it. But it isn't safe for the left to antagonize the black community, whereas the Mormon community is a fair target for them.
Nothing to do with Prop 8 actually, though that is connected somehow but different thread. No, I was born and raised in the LDS church, from my mothers side all my family are *shudder* and the original teaching of all gay men and women was that they wouldn't be able to get into one of the higher kingdoms after death due to some requirement for being married to another of the opposite sex in order to get there. However as to if they are bad people, should laws be made to change their way of life, the teachings say no. Also marriage in the political sense has no meaning to the mormons other than the legal contract for rights and taxes, they have another ritual performed to complete the marriage which has nothing to do with law. The funny underwear thing that most people poke fun at. Regardless, the teachings state that the majority rules with high regards for the minority.
As for the persecuted, the most persecuted are the most blessed by their god.
Wow, you never cease to amaze me with how little you know about our faith. Same goes for the cats meow. Is there a correlation with cat's and anti mormonism or something?
Wow, you never cease to amaze me with how little you know about our faith. Same goes for the cats meow. Is there a correlation with cat's and anti mormonism or something?
It's funny. You make comments with no substantiation at all, and ignore the comments I made that are actual quotes from your prophets.
The programming is strong with you, young mormon.
No worries, it was close enough. I have enjoyed all of your posts because you are not a psychotic deviant like some I have encountered.
Well you guys just amaze me. Since you refuse to go back and read my statements, I will yet again do your research for you. I will go back to the 17th and 20th pages or whater and copy and paste what you didn't read. If you don't read it this time, I don't know what to say other than you are blind.
Not everyone is as ignorant of your faith's history as you are. The first time I read the BOM, it still included the words "white and delightsome," though I understand those are no longer in the book. I think it's gone through a few revisions since my day to get to the sanitized version you currently cling to.
Ah yes I was prayingfor you to bring up the heavily misunderstood black issue. I almost don't blame you because most members don't study their doctrine enough to answer this question. I fortunately needed to know the answer to this question to be able to rest in peace about it. So I wouldn't stop researching the subject until I was satisfied. Pay close attention cuz I think you might be tempted to gloss over some details. I don't want to refer you to this again because it should be fully explained here.
I served my mission in South Africa, and so naturally would get this question often. In the book the Pearl of Great price, part of which is a translation from some ancient egyptian scrolls which came into the hands of Joseph Smith, there is a book called the book of Moses and the book of Abraham. In the book of Abraham, there was described the punishment of Cain for his crimes. he was cut off from the Lord and was cast into a land separate from the other children of Adam. It was then because of Cains transgression, the LAND in which he lived was cursed with much heat, which we now know to be the land of Africa. We do believe that original africans were descended from Cain but don't get twisted into a bundle just yet. Cain and his children then had a "mark" placed upon them to distinguish them from other children of Adam. this mark was described by Brigham Young as the dark skin and flat nose. Still not time to get riled up yet.
The curse was not to be confused with the mark. It is nowhere described that the descendants of Cain were cursed, only marked. In fact this marking was a huge blessing for a couple of reasons. The LAND being cursed with much heat was and still is a very inhospitable place because of the sun exposure. How on earth would they be expected to survive such conditions without God preparing them for their enviroment. As we all know, dark skin is a built in sunburn defense. and yes I know black people can sunburn too, but certainly not to a fried crisp like if I were to stand out there for 15 minutes. The flat nose was also a blessing. we all know that hunting in africa is difficult and requires lots of running and stamina if you are going to track and hunt prey in the african wilderness. hence as we all can see, most of the best and naturally gifted long distance runners and sprinters are africans, the nose shape playing a huge role in the amount of oxygen they are able to breath in and out of their nostrils to keep up such a pace. Can white people be trained to run long distance. Of course, but they have to work a little harder to develop the same level of stamina because of the shape of the nose. Starting to make sense?
It gets better.The reason a lot of mormons and non-mormons alike confused the skin color of Cain's descendants with a curse is because of an UNRELATED and temporary physical curse placed on the Lamanites to distinguish them from the Nephites and cause that they should not be enticing unto the nephites during much of the Book of Mormon years. The curse we read in 3rd Nephi was eventually taken away and had nothing to do with having a flat nose. It is easy to see how this can be misunderstood through lack of study.
No where is it written in our official doctrine that blacks were cursed with dark skin as a result of poor performance in the pre existence. That unfortunately has been misunderstood by too many members and apparently you too.
Next question please.
Oh I almost forgot to address the priesthood issue. My bad. yes Cains descendants were cursed as to the obtaining the authority of the Priesthood which would allow them to officiate in Church ordinances. This was done in part as a punishment to Cain, not his children, and in part to help fulfill the prophecy that the first should be last and the last should be first. meaning the first people to receive the priesthood and gospel(Jews) would be the last ones to fully accept it, and the last ones to receive the priesthood and gospel(seed of Cain) would be the first to accept and embrace it. That is why 1978 was so important. Joseph Smith foretold back in 1830 that blacks would eventually hold the priesthood before the coming of Christ. It wasn't because they were spiritually unworthy as it was to fulfill the word of the Lord. This is amazing that the huge numbers of blacks in Africa were pleading and praying daily to the leaders of our church to let them receive the missionaries in the 70's, because they knew the gospel was true and understood the prophecies. African membership now is the fastest growing portion of converts among all races. this is a story about a glorious triumph, not a lame argument about racism. They are reaping the glory of this with great happiness in Africa right now and it's only going to get bigger.
Also you might want to bear in mind the wisdom of God in his timing. We all know how racist the country was for a long time up until the civil rights movement. In the early days of the church in the 1830's, part of the hatred for mormons was that they were branded ****** lovers because they preached against slavery and invited blacks into their congregations. You didn't hear about that though because your anti mormon friends didn't tell you the whole truth. Only half truths. With general hostility towards blacks already an undercurrent of society at the time, It would have only brought more vicious attacks against us and church burnings and murders to have ordained black priests and bishops back then.
But if the Lord had given the revelation back then, Joseph Smith wouldn't have hesitated to ordain them. He grieved about the issue and actually pleaded with the Lord to restore them to the priesthood but was told they must wait for the due time of the Lord.
Not everyone gets everything at the same time. Which is why many people live their whole lives without ever even hearing the name of Jesus Christ. Is that the Lord just discriminating against his sons and daughters. NOOO! He knows when the time is right and knows that there is far more to it than just this earthly life. If not so, buddhists, hindus, muslims and all other non-christians, including babies who die before learning the gospel, must be condemned to hell. But good thing that is not the case, God is a little more loving and just than that......Whew!
Oooh ... this brings back long memories:
YouTube - Inside Mormon Temples MUST SEE! Most comprehensive!
Though not the best chapters in my life, but it's the only childhood I have.
Oh, for those who don't know, the pool with the Oxen is where the baptisms for the dead are held. I was guilty of being involved in a few of those and regret forcing it on about 12 poor souls.
