The Truth about Mormons

[Truthspeaker]

Book of Mormon Man of the Day:

Abinadi(A-bin-a-die) ?-148 BC:

Another of the truly brave martyrs to live in this world. He came among the people to teach against the corrupt priesthood who were abusing their power by decreeing false doctrines to justify heavy taxes on the people to support the king and his priests. They used these taxes to spend on frivolous living with whores and excess. They were truly corrupt and using organized religion to benefit their own profits.
When Abinadi denounced their teachings he was brought before a mock trial on heinous charges of blasphemy.
When the priests questioned him in a snakelike manner to trick him in his words he withstood their questions with sound answers and true doctrine and made a fool of them. They tried to destroy him during this interrogation but was granted godly strength to strike down the guards sent to attack him and told them that he could not be destroyed until he had "finished my message." To boot this was done while he was chained. A true miracle.
He taught the true meaning of the scriptures including the ten commandments. He prophesied many fearful things that would happen to the King and his people if they harmed him now that his message was finished.
The wicked King whose name was Noah, became frightened and was about to release Abinadi, but his posse of priests riled him up and he finally gave in and executed Abinadi by burning him to death. And these are the words of the dying prophet:

15 Behold, even as ye have done unto me, so shall it come to pass that thy seed shall cause that many shall suffer the pains that I do suffer, even the pains of death by fire; and this because they believe in the salvation of the Lord their God.
16 And it will come to pass that ye shall be afflicted with all manner of diseases because of your iniquities.
17 Yea, and ye shall be smitten on every hand, and shall be driven and scattered to and fro, even as a wild flock is driven by wild and ferocious beasts.
18 And in that day ye shall be hunted, and ye shall be taken by the hand of your enemies, and then ye shall suffer, as I suffer, the pains of death by fire.
19 Thus God executeth vengeance upon those that destroy his people. O God, receive my soul.
20 And now, when Abinadi had said these words, he fell, having suffered death by fire; yea, having been put to death because he would not deny the commandments of God, having sealed the truth of his words by his death.


Later on the prophecies of Abinadi were fulfilled. Including the wicked King Noah being taken by his own men and burned to death at the stake after he told them to leave their wives and children behind to be killed by the attacking Lamanite army and stay with him.

 

[TheSuaveOne]

Other than the book of Mormon, are there any other historical references to these men?

-TSO

 

[Liability]

The Blizzard is gone, the sun is shining, reflecting off the fairly new-fallen snow, bedazzling our eyes in this City. It is a beautiful start to another wonderful day. I really enjoy a good cold, clean, crisp, fresh, sun-filled Mormon.

 

[JenyEliza]

"I had a lot of Mormon friends when I lived in Phoenix back in the 90s. There aren't many Mormons in Arkansas. I have seen the movies "The God Makers" and "The God Makers II". Quite interesting."

It's too bad that you are hearing a one sided point of view from some bitter ex-members that want to portray half-truths. I would like to know what was so interesting.

One thing that I found interesting was Mormon Baptism for the Dead.

I don't find that interesting in the least.

It PISSES ME RIGHT OFF.

Me and my family have CHOSEN our faith in our lifetime and it is NOT the right, privilege or under the purview of some half-assed Morman to "baptise" any of our dead.

Our fath (Roman Catholic) believes in ONE baptism....and ONE BAPTISM ONLY. We are entitled to hold to the tenets of our faith---even in death.

The Mormans need to knock this shit off.

 

[Avatar4321]

Other than the book of Mormon, are there any other historical references to these men?

-TSO

The Bible and many contemporary people have mented Jesus Christ. As He is the most prominent person in the Book of Mormon, I would have to say yes.

However, if you want historical references to people from a time and place, where as yet, no written histories exist: good luck.

 

[Avatar4321]

"I had a lot of Mormon friends when I lived in Phoenix back in the 90s. There aren't many Mormons in Arkansas. I have seen the movies "The God Makers" and "The God Makers II". Quite interesting."

It's too bad that you are hearing a one sided point of view from some bitter ex-members that want to portray half-truths. I would like to know what was so interesting.

One thing that I found interesting was Mormon Baptism for the Dead.

I don't find that interesting in the least.

It PISSES ME RIGHT OFF.

Me and my family have CHOSEN our faith in our lifetime and it is NOT the right, privilege or under the purview of some half-assed Morman to "baptise" any of our dead.

Our fath (Roman Catholic) believes in ONE baptism....and ONE BAPTISM ONLY. We are entitled to hold to the tenets of our faith---even in death.

The Mormans need to knock this shit off.

After careful consideration of your request. I have to decline.

 

[TheSuaveOne]

Other than the book of Mormon, are there any other historical references to these men?

-TSO

The Bible and many contemporary people have mented Jesus Christ. As He is the most prominent person in the Book of Mormon, I would have to say yes.

However, if you want historical references to people from a time and place, where as yet, no written histories exist: good luck.

Nah, I am talking more of the others discussed as historical figures throughout the BoM.

-TSO

 

[TheSuaveOne]

I don't find that interesting in the least.

It PISSES ME RIGHT OFF.

Me and my family have CHOSEN our faith in our lifetime and it is NOT the right, privilege or under the purview of some half-assed Morman to "baptise" any of our dead.

Our fath (Roman Catholic) believes in ONE baptism....and ONE BAPTISM ONLY. We are entitled to hold to the tenets of our faith---even in death.

The Mormans need to knock this shit off.

I wouldn't let it bother you. Think of it this way. If a family member of yours is baptised in the Mormon Temple, all it does is open up the possiblility if the Mormon church is The true church that they will have the ability to go to heaven and be with God. There is nothing that says that if they are baptised Mormon that in the afterlife they have to convert, all it does is give them the chance if they make that choice in the afterlife.

-TSO

 

[Truthspeaker]

Other than the book of Mormon, are there any other historical references to these men?

-TSO

Not that I am aware of. I do know that some of the names in the book are found in the Bible. But that is the whole reason why the Book of Mormon exists. To bring new and sweet information that has been lying dormant for thousands of years.

 

[Truthspeaker]

The Blizzard is gone, the sun is shining, reflecting off the fairly new-fallen snow, bedazzling our eyes in this City. It is a beautiful start to another wonderful day. I really enjoy a good cold, clean, crisp, fresh, sun-filled Mormon.

You're weird man

 

[Truthspeaker]

"I had a lot of Mormon friends when I lived in Phoenix back in the 90s. There aren't many Mormons in Arkansas. I have seen the movies "The God Makers" and "The God Makers II". Quite interesting."

It's too bad that you are hearing a one sided point of view from some bitter ex-members that want to portray half-truths. I would like to know what was so interesting.

One thing that I found interesting was Mormon Baptism for the Dead.

I don't find that interesting in the least.

It PISSES ME RIGHT OFF.

Me and my family have CHOSEN our faith in our lifetime and it is NOT the right, privilege or under the purview of some half-assed Morman to "baptise" any of our dead.

Our fath (Roman Catholic) believes in ONE baptism....and ONE BAPTISM ONLY. We are entitled to hold to the tenets of our faith---even in death.

The Mormans need to knock this shit off.

Really Jeny? Please spare me your phony rage and ask the real question that's on your mind.
It seems to me that you assume we baptize people after we have dug them up from the grave. This is not so. And we don't do anything unless family members have submitted their relative's names to the temple for the proxy ordinance. Please can you discuss these issues like a normal human being and again, spare us the phony rage.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And we don't do anything unless family members have submitted their relative's names to the temple for the proxy ordinance.

(sigh) I wish you knew your own religion instead of having to be corrected so very often.

The Mormon/Jewish Controversy: This web page chronicles the controversy between members of the Jewish faith and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons have been criticized in recent years for the practice of posthumously baptizing thousands of deceased Jews (among them Holocaust victims) and those of other faiths. The wrongful posthumous baptism of Jewish dead continues, despite repeated denials by the disingenuous Mormon leadership. In their missionary zeal, Mormons continue their wrongful baptism of Jews, attempting to convince people (dead or alive) from other religions to convert. Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims.

Mormons are hijacking history. In a hundred years who will know the true facts about you and your heritage? Who will know anything about your family? No one. Very possibly no one! Because in a hundred years the record will apparently show that they were allegedly converts without making clear that it was by no act of their own.
A chronicle of the Mormon/Jewish controversy; THE LDS AGREEMENT: A JewishGen InfoFile

 

[Truthspeaker]

And we don't do anything unless family members have submitted their relative's names to the temple for the proxy ordinance.

(sigh) I wish you knew your own religion instead of having to be corrected so very often.

The Mormon/Jewish Controversy: This web page chronicles the controversy between members of the Jewish faith and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons have been criticized in recent years for the practice of posthumously baptizing thousands of deceased Jews (among them Holocaust victims) and those of other faiths. The wrongful posthumous baptism of Jewish dead continues, despite repeated denials by the disingenuous Mormon leadership. In their missionary zeal, Mormons continue their wrongful baptism of Jews, attempting to convince people (dead or alive) from other religions to convert. Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims.

Mormons are hijacking history. In a hundred years who will know the true facts about you and your heritage? Who will know anything about your family? No one. Very possibly no one! Because in a hundred years the record will apparently show that they were allegedly converts without making clear that it was by no act of their own.
A chronicle of the Mormon/Jewish controversy; THE LDS AGREEMENT: A JewishGen InfoFile

You fail to realize that I've been over this before with everyone a long time ago. We changed our policy since the incident with Jewish complaints. We used to just get every name we could but with respect to requests we currently adhere to the policy I mentioned.

and btw the people writing that article really don't have a grasp on the reality of our doctrine regarding baptism for the dead. The records of our church do not record that those deceased have become converts. Only that the proxy ordinance was done on their behalf for them to choose to accept or reject. We never claimed that we were converting posthumously. That is ridiculous. Apparently you don't have a grasp either. Darn.

 

[JakeStarkey]

And we don't do anything unless family members have submitted their relative's names to the temple for the proxy ordinance.

(sigh) I wish you knew your own religion instead of having to be corrected so very often.

The Mormon/Jewish Controversy: This web page chronicles the controversy between members of the Jewish faith and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons have been criticized in recent years for the practice of posthumously baptizing thousands of deceased Jews (among them Holocaust victims) and those of other faiths. The wrongful posthumous baptism of Jewish dead continues, despite repeated denials by the disingenuous Mormon leadership. In their missionary zeal, Mormons continue their wrongful baptism of Jews, attempting to convince people (dead or alive) from other religions to convert. Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims.

Mormons are hijacking history. In a hundred years who will know the true facts about you and your heritage? Who will know anything about your family? No one. Very possibly no one! Because in a hundred years the record will apparently show that they were allegedly converts without making clear that it was by no act of their own.
A chronicle of the Mormon/Jewish controversy; THE LDS AGREEMENT: A JewishGen InfoFile

. . . the people writing that article really don't have a grasp on the reality of our doctrine regarding baptism for the dead. The records of our church do not record that those deceased have become converts. Only that the proxy ordinance was done on their behalf for them to choose to accept or reject. We never claimed that we were converting posthumously. That is ridiculous. Apparently you don't have a grasp either. Darn.

Truth, apparently you are unaware, regardless of whatever the church leadership or policy says or may be, folks still get baptized all the time who should not. The families and organizations opposed to the practice don't have to have a grasp on the technical aspects of the process. Simply understand this: the families and their representatives make these decisions, not your church.

 

[Liability]

(Sung to the tune sung by Cat Stevens):

MORMON has broken!

 

[JenyEliza]

(sigh) I wish you knew your own religion instead of having to be corrected so very often.

The Mormon/Jewish Controversy: This web page chronicles the controversy between members of the Jewish faith and of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Mormons have been criticized in recent years for the practice of posthumously baptizing thousands of deceased Jews (among them Holocaust victims) and those of other faiths. The wrongful posthumous baptism of Jewish dead continues, despite repeated denials by the disingenuous Mormon leadership. In their missionary zeal, Mormons continue their wrongful baptism of Jews, attempting to convince people (dead or alive) from other religions to convert. Jewish leaders have called the practice arrogant and said it is disrespectful to the dead, especially Holocaust victims.

Mormons are hijacking history. In a hundred years who will know the true facts about you and your heritage? Who will know anything about your family? No one. Very possibly no one! Because in a hundred years the record will apparently show that they were allegedly converts without making clear that it was by no act of their own.
A chronicle of the Mormon/Jewish controversy; THE LDS AGREEMENT: A JewishGen InfoFile

. . . the people writing that article really don't have a grasp on the reality of our doctrine regarding baptism for the dead. The records of our church do not record that those deceased have become converts. Only that the proxy ordinance was done on their behalf for them to choose to accept or reject. We never claimed that we were converting posthumously. That is ridiculous. Apparently you don't have a grasp either. Darn.

Truth, apparently you are unaware, regardless of whatever the church leadership or policy says or may be, folks still get baptized all the time who should not. The families and organizations opposed to the practice don't have to have a grasp on the technical aspects of the process. Simply understand this: the families and their representatives make these decisions, not your church.

Thank you for setting Truth straight on his own religion's ridiculous practices (which, in spite of his ignorance, STILL continue to this day).

In doing research I have found Roman Catholic members of MY family that were baptised Mormon by proxy who would have been HORRIFIED in life had they known this ever took place.

These were people who left Northern Ireland to escape the tyrany of the British Crown against Irish Catholics. Only to come to America, work hard, raise good families, die and have some dimwit Mormon re-Baptize them in spite of their faith's prohibition on more than one Baptism.

So, "Truth", go learn a little TRUTH for yourself. I have NO questions to ask you. I KNOW what I KNOW. Personal family experience.

Mormon posthumous "baptism" is EVIL, arrogant, presumptuous and WRONG. And it STILL HAPPENS even though the JDL and others have shined a light on the practice.

It needs to STOP.

NOW.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

. . . the people writing that article really don't have a grasp on the reality of our doctrine regarding baptism for the dead. The records of our church do not record that those deceased have become converts. Only that the proxy ordinance was done on their behalf for them to choose to accept or reject. We never claimed that we were converting posthumously. That is ridiculous. Apparently you don't have a grasp either. Darn.

Truth, apparently you are unaware, regardless of whatever the church leadership or policy says or may be, folks still get baptized all the time who should not. The families and organizations opposed to the practice don't have to have a grasp on the technical aspects of the process. Simply understand this: the families and their representatives make these decisions, not your church.

Thank you for setting Truth straight on his own religion's ridiculous practices (which, in spite of his ignorance, STILL continue to this day).

In doing research I have found Roman Catholic members of MY family that were baptised Mormon by proxy who would have been HORRIFIED in life had they known this ever took place.

These were people who left Northern Ireland to escape the tyrany of the British Crown against Irish Catholics. Only to come to America, work hard, raise good families, die and have some dimwit Mormon re-Baptize them in spite of their faith's prohibition on more than one Baptism.

So, "Truth", go learn a little TRUTH for yourself. I have NO questions to ask you. I KNOW what I KNOW. Personal family experience.

Mormon posthumous "baptism" is EVIL, arrogant, presumptuous and WRONG. And it STILL HAPPENS even though the JDL and others have shined a light on the practice.

It needs to STOP.

NOW.

Considering the fact that the Catholic Church does not BELIEVE in baptism of the dead or proxy baptism, your complaint is foolish at best. As in YOUR religion they have not been baptized twice at all. But hey thanks for playing.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, RGS, you are showing a form of irreconciliable stubborness that I encounter in those who have trouble processing critical evidence that simply demonstrates that a former belief is incorrect.

This is not a matter of opinion but rather what is right and what is not. First, it happens when it should not. Second, the decision morally rests with the family members. Third, your personal opinion is immaterial to the facts ~ that you think it does not mean anything in itself does not mean anything.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No, RGS, you are showing a form of irreconciliable stubborness that I encounter in those who have trouble processing critical evidence that simply demonstrates that a former belief is incorrect.

This is not a matter of opinion but rather what is right and what is not. First, it happens when it should not. Second, the decision morally rests with the family members. Third, your personal opinion is immaterial to the facts ~ that you think it does not mean anything in itself does not mean anything.

And you have no proof it is happening now. But hey thanks for playing. Once again reality applies. The Catholic Church does not recognize proxy baptism nor baptism of the dead so any such ritual has no meaning to dead Catholics with in the Catholic religion. That is a simple fact. If I am not mistaken the Catholic Church considers the Mormon Church to be a false religion, meaning we have no power over them at all. No matter what we do. In regards the doctrines and beliefs of the Catholic Church.

 

[JenyEliza]

Ah.....RGS reveals himself to be an anti-Catholic bigot. A Mormon with his widdle feelings hurt by the Catholic Church.

His response makes sense now. Still doesn't make his response right.