The Truth about Mormons

[Avatar4321]

Op-Ed from Thomas S Monson

Seemed like a good thing to share. Not everyday the Prophet writes and Op-Ed

 

[Avatar4321]

The Book of Mormon is a unique book. If there is a Nephite civilization then you have to explain how a farm boy in rural New York was able to produce documentation from it. Considering critics can't explain away the Book of Mormon while they declare there is no Nephite civilization, I doubt they would have any more success when the Nephites are found to have historically existed.

If there are Nephites, is there an explanation of how the Book of Mormon came about other than the one Joseph gave? If there is, I'd like to hear it.

How was he able to do it? He made shit up. Smit wasn't illiterate. And maybe he even had a talent for writing. Of course, there is clear parts he just plagarized from the King James Bible, and other parts he plagarized from other works.

What is clear is the BoM is all written by the same author, unlike the Bible, which varies in writing style from book to book.

The point is, a civilization as large as the Nephite civilization that lasted as long would have left other evidence. Even if the Bible didn't exist (which would have probably made the world a better place) we would have other evidence that Judea and Rome existed.

The ONLY evidence for the Nephites is the BoM, and that evidence is questionable.

You know all about plagiarism dont you ? Seen any good movies lately ?

You really don't need to challenge him personally. The fact is he is wrong. Analysis says the Book of Mormon was written mainly by 4 writers, none of which were Joseph Smith. Very consistant with the fact that there were 4 main writers to the Book of Mormorn: Mormon, Moroni, Nephi, and Jacob.

The language was also tested against some of the contemperaries of Joseph who the many critics claim actually wrote the Book of Mormon instead of him. They don't match up too.

And when the Book of Mormon was written the man couldn't dictate a cohesive letter.

Of course there is that accusation of Plagarism, which doesn't hold up either. Plagarism is claiming someone elses work as your own. Joseph Smith never claimed the Book of Mormon was his own work. In fact, he testified that it was the work of others. When any book of the Bible is mentioned in the Book of Mormon, such as Isaiah, the words are attributed to that writer. It's impossible to plagarize while simultaneously providing reference to author.

And those passages quoted weren't the same as the KJV passages. In fact, they better reflect the originals than the KJV in numerous areas. For example, the use of Chiasmus in the the Book of Mormon. Chiasmus is a rhetorical devise that wasn't recognized during Joseph's lifetime. It's common throughout Hebrew and Greek writings, particularly scripture. It's found in the King James Version, in several places. It's also lost in several places because of the way it was translated into English. So how did Joseph manage to translate passages in the Book of the Mormon which he supposedly plagarized from the KJV while restoring the Chiasmus the KJV lost through translation? Amazing coincidence no?

Indeed why would a complex Hebreic rhetorical devise be found among the writings of an 19th century American at all?

Or how about the names he just happened to use? Pacumeni, Pahoran, Nephi, Alma as a male name, etc. These names were laughed at and claimed by critics to have clearly been made up. Joseph made a mistake. At least that was the criticism until the names were discovered to be ancient in Egyptian and Hebrew sources.

Or how did Joseph describe a path through Arabia in 1 Nephi that actually exists when it was completely unknown then? The man even nailed spefic names and characteristics along to the path. So Joseph just happened to guess that if you take one of the trade paths southeast of Jerusalem through Arabia you will come upon a place named NHM? The exact same name given by Nephi in his account. And he just happened to guess that directly east of that location was an oasis that perfectly matches the description of that mention in 1 Nephi's Bountiful? A place that one could find materials and ore to build a ship.

Joseph Smith has to have either be what he claims to be, the most intelligent man who was somehow able to thoroughly research things that were completely unknown in his days or the luckiest man to have ever walked the planet. And that's on a couple of bulls eyes Joseph had.

How is it he was able to just guess accurately which Christian doctrines were later develops and go back to early Christian doctrine that was later changed or lost until recently?

He just happened to guess accurately on:

1) The Pre-Earth life
2) The Deification of man
3) Baptism for the Dead
4) Temple Worship

Individually it doesnt prove anything. but all the little things Joseph Smith nailed start to add up. It's not something you can dismiss so easily when you've looked into it.

Ultimately, the only way to truly know is the way God has provided. To study the Book of Mormon and learn from the Holy Spirit. But to pretend there is no evidence when it's quite extensive is absurd. And to ignore the "coincidences" Joseph just happened to have is likewise absurd.

 

[JoeB131]

Avatar, really, you need to stop drinking the koolaid from LDS websites.

Linguistic Problems in Mormonism

Mr. Packham is a linguist and an ex-LDS.

 

[HUGGY]

Ha..hA...hA...

The Mormans up to their old tricks...eh?

Speaking of man made miracles...Truth?Speaker and Avatar..

Yesterday your Views on this thread were 189,000...today "magically" they are at 205,000 plus..... an unprecedented jump of almost 16,000 views..

Care to explain that?

I doubt that there were 16,000 legitimate views on this entire message board over the last 24 hours..

And you guys wonder why I hate Mormans... Let me explain it to ya.. you are lying, stealing, cheating scum... You assholes will subvert anything and everything to try to make it appear that you are legitimate.. You are not..now...never where...never will be.

Too bad they have dropped the top five categories from the board... Your efforts are wasted..

And your presidential hopeful doesn't stand a chance of being elected... You cannot hide the fact that you people are bat shit crazy willfully ignorant liars and most of the country knows it.

 

[Bullhornman]

They are a crazy cult, just like any other religion.

 

[Avatar4321]

Avatar, really, you need to stop drinking the koolaid from LDS websites.

Linguistic Problems in Mormonism

Mr. Packham is a linguist and an ex-LDS.

And you should actually read the Book of Mormon for once in your life.

Never heard of Mr. Packham. Ill check it out, but doesn't change the fact that there is linguistic evidence in favor of the Book of Mormon. It just provides someone with a different point of view.

Nor does it change the fact that the Spirit will teach us the truth of all things and will and does testify that the Book of Mormon is true.

 

[Avatar4321]

Ha..hA...hA...

The Mormans up to their old tricks...eh?

Speaking of man made miracles...Truth?Speaker and Avatar..

Yesterday your Views on this thread were 189,000...today "magically" they are at 205,000 plus..... an unprecedented jump of almost 16,000 views..

Care to explain that?

I doubt that there were 16,000 legitimate views on this entire message board over the last 24 hours..

And you guys wonder why I hate Mormans... Let me explain it to ya.. you are lying, stealing, cheating scum... You assholes will subvert anything and everything to try to make it appear that you are legitimate.. You are not..now...never where...never will be.

Too bad they have dropped the top five categories from the board... Your efforts are wasted..

And your presidential hopeful doesn't stand a chance of being elected... You cannot hide the fact that you people are bat shit crazy willfully ignorant liars and most of the country knows it.

Yes, Huggy. Somehow TS and I, for some unknown reason, managed to hack into the website for the sole purpose of changing the number of views. Because clearly increasing the number of views on this particular thread somehow proves that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is from God. And we, of course, have nothing better to do.

BTW Was TS even on the board yesterday? I dont remember seeing him for nearly a week.

If that's why you hate mormons, than I feel very sorry that you have such anger and bitterness in your heart. To hate people for no reasons, heck to hate people at all, is just sad. None of us should have to carry that bitterness inside. But you can let if go if you choose to. God will take it from you if you ask Him. He will grant you peace.

As for an explanation, I can't truly explain what you saw. I have no clue. I was a bit busy yesterday spending time with my wife and planning to get her flowers that I didn't notice the amount of people viewing the thread. In fact, I rarely ever notice it because it's not that important to me.

What have we lied about? What have we stolen? What have we subverted? I have no reason to lie. I may be wrong about certain things, after all who can't be wrong. But there is absolutely no point to lie.

As for Presidential politics, I don't have a candidate, let alone a Presidential hopeful. I'm rather indifferent to the two mormon candidates at the moment. In fact, im pretty much indifferent to all of the candidates. I will continue to study the issues, find out who I think is trust worthy and praying for direction on who to support. But the fact is I don't really expect a change in Presidency to fix the problems. Not that I don't believe that any of the candidates would be a superior choice to our current President, but because I dont think our nations problems can be solved by government. I think they have to be saved by we, the people, making different choices in our lives.

I think you'd already know this if you paid attention to what I said on the board. I can understand why you don't. I've got no false notions that I'm anyone important. Just another voice on the internet. But I think if you let go of your hated toward me, and actually tried to understand my point of view, you'd probably see that we can work together on alot of things despite any differences we have had in the past.

 

[Avatar4321]

They are a crazy cult, just like any other religion.

I take it you've read the Book of Mormon?

 

[HUGGY]

They are a crazy cult, just like any other religion.

I take it you've read the Book of Mormon?

I have. I agree with the previous reply.

 

[JakeStarkey]

huggy and joe need some chill pills.

I don't think Mormonism is God's reveal truth in these the Latter Days. Truly don't.

But I doubt our LDS friends here are any more devilish or angelic than any of the rest of us for their beliefs.

My goodness. What I see is the typical mental illness of atheists gone bonkers. Not all atheists by stretch are as bonkers as these two on this issue.

 

[Avatar4321]

They are a crazy cult, just like any other religion.

I take it you've read the Book of Mormon?

I have. I agree with the previous reply.

So you studied and prayed about it?

 

[HUGGY]

Ha..hA...hA...

The Mormans up to their old tricks...eh?

Speaking of man made miracles...Truth?Speaker and Avatar..

Yesterday your Views on this thread were 189,000...today "magically" they are at 205,000 plus..... an unprecedented jump of almost 16,000 views..

Care to explain that?

I doubt that there were 16,000 legitimate views on this entire message board over the last 24 hours..

And you guys wonder why I hate Mormans... Let me explain it to ya.. you are lying, stealing, cheating scum... You assholes will subvert anything and everything to try to make it appear that you are legitimate.. You are not..now...never where...never will be.

Too bad they have dropped the top five categories from the board... Your efforts are wasted..

And your presidential hopeful doesn't stand a chance of being elected... You cannot hide the fact that you people are bat shit crazy willfully ignorant liars and most of the country knows it.

Yes, Huggy. Somehow TS and I, for some unknown reason, managed to hack into the website for the sole purpose of changing the number of views. Because clearly increasing the number of views on this particular thread somehow proves that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is from God. And we, of course, have nothing better to do.

BTW Was TS even on the board yesterday? I dont remember seeing him for nearly a week.

If that's why you hate mormons, than I feel very sorry that you have such anger and bitterness in your heart. To hate people for no reasons, heck to hate people at all, is just sad. None of us should have to carry that bitterness inside. But you can let if go if you choose to. God will take it from you if you ask Him. He will grant you peace.

As for an explanation, I can't truly explain what you saw. I have no clue. I was a bit busy yesterday spending time with my wife and planning to get her flowers that I didn't notice the amount of people viewing the thread. In fact, I rarely ever notice it because it's not that important to me.

What have we lied about? What have we stolen? What have we subverted? I have no reason to lie. I may be wrong about certain things, after all who can't be wrong. But there is absolutely no point to lie.

As for Presidential politics, I don't have a candidate, let alone a Presidential hopeful. I'm rather indifferent to the two mormon candidates at the moment. In fact, im pretty much indifferent to all of the candidates. I will continue to study the issues, find out who I think is trust worthy and praying for direction on who to support. But the fact is I don't really expect a change in Presidency to fix the problems. Not that I don't believe that any of the candidates would be a superior choice to our current President, but because I dont think our nations problems can be solved by government. I think they have to be saved by we, the people, making different choices in our lives.

I think you'd already know this if you paid attention to what I said on the board. I can understand why you don't. I've got no false notions that I'm anyone important. Just another voice on the internet. But I think if you let go of your hated toward me, and actually tried to understand my point of view, you'd probably see that we can work together on alot of things despite any differences we have had in the past.

I have nothing against you personally except for your defense of Mormonism and the fantasy that is Christianity. You are a very courteous and respectful member of USMB.

I dislike abuse of any kind which include efforts to iligitimally promote one point of view over another. The Mormans are famous for rigging the truth and theft. Their efforts in California elections were unconscionable. The Church of Morman was despicable in their dealings with the Native Americans....their funding of mob takeover in Nevada and the theft of Howard Hughes fortune.

I don't care what you personally believe. I have no tolerance for acting on your fantasies to the detriment of others and THEIR beliefs.

And YES...adding 16,000 views may seem a small theft but a deceit it is..and Mormans are responsible for it.

 

[Avatar4321]

I have nothing against you personally except for your defense of Mormonism and the fantasy that is Christianity. You are a very courteous and respectful member of USMB.

I dislike abuse of any kind which include efforts to iligitimally promote of point of view over another. The Mormans are famous for rigging the truth and theft. Their efforts in California elections were unconscionable. The Church of Morman was despicable in their dealings with the Native Americans....their funding of mob takeover in Nevada and the theft of Howard Hughes fortune.

I don't care what you personally believe. I have no tolerance for acting on your fantasies to the detriment of others and THEIR beliefs.

And YES...adding 16,000 views may seem a small theft but a deceit it is..and Mormans are responsible for it.

Famous for rigging the truth and theft? Since when?

How is it dispicable to take a position on a moral issue and encourage people to vote their conscience?

Dealings with Native Americans? This is a new one. We've got an outstanding record with dealing with Native Americans. From the very beginning of the Church we've reached out to them with love and compassion.

And we have funded the mob and stolen Howard Hughes forture now? I thought I'd heard every critism against the Church. Some legitimate and some absolutely absurd (The lizard people between Salt Lake for example, absurd but mildly amusing). Funding the mob is definitely a new one for me.

So you think the Mormon Church was somehow responsible for the change in the view numbers? You could always ask the Administrators.

 

[HUGGY]

I have nothing against you personally except for your defense of Mormonism and the fantasy that is Christianity. You are a very courteous and respectful member of USMB.

I dislike abuse of any kind which include efforts to iligitimally promote of point of view over another. The Mormans are famous for rigging the truth and theft. Their efforts in California elections were unconscionable. The Church of Morman was despicable in their dealings with the Native Americans....their funding of mob takeover in Nevada and the theft of Howard Hughes fortune.

I don't care what you personally believe. I have no tolerance for acting on your fantasies to the detriment of others and THEIR beliefs.

And YES...adding 16,000 views may seem a small theft but a deceit it is..and Mormans are responsible for it.

Famous for rigging the truth and theft? Since when?

How is it dispicable to take a position on a moral issue and encourage people to vote their conscience?

Dealings with Native Americans? This is a new one. We've got an outstanding record with dealing with Native Americans. From the very beginning of the Church we've reached out to them with love and compassion.

And we have funded the mob and stolen Howard Hughes forture now? I thought I'd heard every critism against the Church. Some legitimate and some absolutely absurd (The lizard people between Salt Lake for example, absurd but mildly amusing). Funding the mob is definitely a new one for me.

So you think the Mormon Church was somehow responsible for the change in the view numbers? You could always ask the Administrators.

I have. It is obvious abuse.

No..I did not pray over your comic book history of Mormonism. There is no god..praying is a ridiculous waste of time. I would offer that reading your book was a waste of time except that it never hurts to be better informed... Your naietivity(sp?) is astounding. There are numerous internet venues you can explore regarding the allegations I have presented. You not being aware or willfully ignorant of these charges will not make them go away.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Avatar, most of Huggy's stuff is not so, but he is right on the latest history coming out on the Native Americans and LDS Utah from 1848 to 1900. The primary source work reveals that the LDS would have the favored land, regardless, and drove the Indians away from it. When they retaliated, the LDS militia and vigilantes struck by hard, very hard. That is one of the reasons the Utahs protected the Federal Indian Agent from the LDS leaders and militia so that he could escape to Fort Bridger and Johnston's Army. He came with news of the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

 

[JoeB131]

They are a crazy cult, just like any other religion.

I take it you've read the Book of Mormon?

Parts of it. Enough to know that it's really badly written Bible Fan Fic.

 

[JoeB131]

huggy and joe need some chill pills.

I don't think Mormonism is God's reveal truth in these the Latter Days. Truly don't.

But I doubt our LDS friends here are any more devilish or angelic than any of the rest of us for their beliefs.

My goodness. What I see is the typical mental illness of atheists gone bonkers. Not all atheists by stretch are as bonkers as these two on this issue.

Here's my problem with it. I hope for a day when we all learn how to cope with death and don't need magic sky pixies to allay our fears. At the bottom of it, that's what ALL religions are. Unlike other animals, we know we are mortal, and it terrifies us, the notion that we will cease to be at some point. And when those we love leave before us, it terrifies us a little more.

So that's why we aren't going to be able to get rid of this scourge, and why the Pope or the Mormon Prophet or some other sack of crap can get away with the garbage they get away with.

But Mormonism offends me a little more because the fraud is so obvious. We will never know if there really was a Jesus, or if he's someone who St. Paul Made up, and gospel writers later attributed miracles to him to make him more interesting.

We do know that Joseph Smith was a Con Man, a Polygamist, a cheat and a liar, that he got chased out of four states due to his bad behavior before they shot him. We know everything he claimed has been debunked.

Yet despite all of that. All of that. He's considered a "Prophet", and people like Avatar (who, by the way, I think is an okay guy when he's talking about other stuff) and Truthspeaker do all sorts of mental gymnastics to keep believing.

 

[HUGGY]

Wow! Another 4,000 views in less than two hours! That with less than 100 members and less than 800 visitors on board. 20,000 views in less than 24 hours...My! Aren't the Mormans popular today!

Sure Avatar...NOTHING wrong with this picture... The Mormans are just a bunch of fine upstanding people.

It must be gods will...

You assholes are SOOOOOOO...transparent!

 

[JakeStarkey]

huggy and joe need some chill pills.

I don't think Mormonism is God's reveal truth in these the Latter Days. Truly don't.

But I doubt our LDS friends here are any more devilish or angelic than any of the rest of us for their beliefs.

My goodness. What I see is the typical mental illness of atheists gone bonkers. Not all atheists by stretch are as bonkers as these two on this issue.

Here's my problem with it. I hope for a day when we all learn how to cope with death and don't need magic sky pixies to allay our fears. At the bottom of it, that's what ALL religions are. Unlike other animals, we know we are mortal, and it terrifies us, the notion that we will cease to be at some point. And when those we love leave before us, it terrifies us a little more.

So that's why we aren't going to be able to get rid of this scourge, and why the Pope or the Mormon Prophet or some other sack of crap can get away with the garbage they get away with.

But Mormonism offends me a little more because the fraud is so obvious. We will never know if there really was a Jesus, or if he's someone who St. Paul Made up, and gospel writers later attributed miracles to him to make him more interesting.

We do know that Joseph Smith was a Con Man, a Polygamist, a cheat and a liar, that he got chased out of four states due to his bad behavior before they shot him. We know everything he claimed has been debunked.

Yet despite all of that. All of that. He's considered a "Prophet", and people like Avatar (who, by the way, I think is an okay guy when he's talking about other stuff) and Truthspeaker do all sorts of mental gymnastics to keep believing.

I wish you the best, JoeB, in your search. Best fortune.

 

[HUGGY]

Wow! over 30,000 new views in just over 24 hours...

You Mormans iz da shiznit!!!!!!



Why do you suppose that this thread went for over a year with less than 30,000 total views?

Mormanizm must be catchin on!!!...like a Texass wildfire!!!