The Truth about Mormons

[JoeB131]

But you all are trying to foist one of your own on the rest of us as President, and frankly, now would be a good time for some scrutiny.

Nobody is "foisting" anyone. We are going to have an election, you dumb fuck.

Keep telling yourself that, guy....

Keep telling yourself the billionaires haven't already rigged this game.

 

[Unkotare]

But you all are trying to foist one of your own on the rest of us as President, and frankly, now would be a good time for some scrutiny.

Nobody is "foisting" anyone. We are going to have an election, you dumb fuck.

Keep telling yourself that, guy....

Keep telling yourself the billionaires haven't already rigged this game.

So, in addition to being a hateful, bigoted moron, you are also a conspiracy freak. You're painting quite the picture of yourself, you fucking loser.

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody is "foisting" anyone. We are going to have an election, you dumb fuck.

Keep telling yourself that, guy....

Keep telling yourself the billionaires haven't already rigged this game.

So, in addition to being a hateful, bigoted moron, you are also a conspiracy freak. You're painting quite the picture of yourself, you fucking loser.

I'm a realist, man. You don't think the big corporations have as tight a control on our politics and both parties as the Ayatollahs in Iran have on who gets to run for election in that country, you're deluded.

We get the choices they give us. Romney will be the nominee despite the fact 80% of Republicans don't want the guy. And Obama is already bought and paid for. So it's just a matter of letting the one win that be more pliable.

 

[daws101]

Despite popular Mormon folklore, Joseph Smith did not give his life innocently "like a lamb to the slaughter" in martyrom. He died after shooting three men with a pistol and desperately trying to prevent his death even with his last utterance. (One of Joseph Smith's polygamous wives, Zina D. Huntington, declared: "I am the widow of a master mason, who, when leaping from the window of Carthage Jail pierced with bullets, made the masonic sign of distress." Joeseph Smith made this sign hoping to appeal to Masons to save his life.)
- Latter-day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia, Andrew Jenson, Volume 1, page 698



Regarding Joseph Smith's death at Carthage Jail, Doctrine and Covenants 135:4 says:

"When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretended requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said: “I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men. I SHALL DIE INNOCENT, AND IT SHALL YET BE SAID OF ME—HE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD." (emphasis in the original)

When I was a mormon, it was said that his blood stains the floor to this day in the prison, but I do not know, I have never visited the prison.

 

[Listening]

Despite popular Mormon folklore, Joseph Smith did not give his life innocently "like a lamb to the slaughter" in martyrom. He died after shooting three men with a pistol and desperately trying to prevent his death even with his last utterance. (One of Joseph Smith's polygamous wives, Zina D. Huntington, declared: "I am the widow of a master mason, who, when leaping from the window of Carthage Jail pierced with bullets, made the masonic sign of distress." Joeseph Smith made this sign hoping to appeal to Masons to save his life.)
- Latter-day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia, Andrew Jenson, Volume 1, page 698



Regarding Joseph Smith's death at Carthage Jail, Doctrine and Covenants 135:4 says:

"When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretended requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said: “I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men. I SHALL DIE INNOCENT, AND IT SHALL YET BE SAID OF ME—HE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD." (emphasis in the original)

When I was a mormon, it was said that his blood stains the floor to this day in the prison, but I do not know, I have never visited the prison.

And all this heresay is relevent how ?

 

[Unkotare]

I'm a realist, man. .

No, 'man,' you are a bigoted, mentally defective asshole. You've made that more than clear.

 

[daws101]

Despite popular Mormon folklore, Joseph Smith did not give his life innocently "like a lamb to the slaughter" in martyrom. He died after shooting three men with a pistol and desperately trying to prevent his death even with his last utterance. (One of Joseph Smith's polygamous wives, Zina D. Huntington, declared: "I am the widow of a master mason, who, when leaping from the window of Carthage Jail pierced with bullets, made the masonic sign of distress." Joeseph Smith made this sign hoping to appeal to Masons to save his life.)
- Latter-day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia, Andrew Jenson, Volume 1, page 698



Regarding Joseph Smith's death at Carthage Jail, Doctrine and Covenants 135:4 says:

"When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretended requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said: “I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men. I SHALL DIE INNOCENT, AND IT SHALL YET BE SAID OF ME—HE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD." (emphasis in the original)

When I was a mormon, it was said that his blood stains the floor to this day in the prison, but I do not know, I have never visited the prison.

And all this heresay is relevent how ?

any quantitative proof that it's hearsay?

 

[Listening]

Despite popular Mormon folklore, Joseph Smith did not give his life innocently "like a lamb to the slaughter" in martyrom. He died after shooting three men with a pistol and desperately trying to prevent his death even with his last utterance. (One of Joseph Smith's polygamous wives, Zina D. Huntington, declared: "I am the widow of a master mason, who, when leaping from the window of Carthage Jail pierced with bullets, made the masonic sign of distress." Joeseph Smith made this sign hoping to appeal to Masons to save his life.)
- Latter-day Saint Biographical Encyclopedia, Andrew Jenson, Volume 1, page 698



Regarding Joseph Smith's death at Carthage Jail, Doctrine and Covenants 135:4 says:

"When Joseph went to Carthage to deliver himself up to the pretended requirements of the law, two or three days previous to his assassination, he said: “I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men. I SHALL DIE INNOCENT, AND IT SHALL YET BE SAID OF ME—HE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD." (emphasis in the original)

When I was a mormon, it was said that his blood stains the floor to this day in the prison, but I do not know, I have never visited the prison.

And all this heresay is relevent how ?

any quantitative proof that it's hearsay?

Unless you can produce audiovisual's.....I'd say the argument isn't worth having.

You posted something that is no more truth than I am green.

The truth about mormons.....they have red blood...just like everyone else.

 

[daws101]

And all this heresay is relevent how ?

any quantitative proof that it's hearsay?

Unless you can produce audiovisual's.....I'd say the argument isn't worth having.

You posted something that is no more truth than I am green.

The truth about mormons.....they have red blood...just like everyone else.

dodge deflect model 666.

Joseph Smith
There's two ways to look at Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Church. On the one hand you can view him as a fraud -- a monomaniacal polygamist, an opportunist who shamelessly exploited his religious followers, who was murdered by an angry mob, infuriated by all his bullshit. On the other hand, you could be a Mormon. In which case, he's the greatest man who ever lived. Your call.
One morning in 1820, fourteen-year-old Joseph Smith, Jr. had a problem: he needed to know which religion was right. So he went into the woods and prayed for guidance. Then Jesus and His Dad appeared and gave Smith some unbelievable news:


Every church on earth was offensive to the Lord. All of them had ignored His teachings and commandments... or something like that. Therefore, Smith should join none of them.

Smith was instructed to institute a new religion, restoring God's teachings. It would be the one true church.
Smith told no one about the vision, and nothing happened for three years.

Then he received another visitation, this time from an angel named Moroni. Sort of like the holographic schematics of the Death Star shown to the Rebel pilots during their briefing, Moroni showed Smith a cavity hidden inside a mountain, conveniently located just outside his hometown. (What a coincidence.) In the cave was a room with wooden furnishings, with a bunch of gold tablets stacked up on the table. Then the angel told him not to go near the site until he received specific orders to do so. So Smith never told anybody about that vision either.

Another four years passed, and then he finally got the go-ahead to grab the gold tablets. He also picked up two magical rocks which were made famous in the Old Testament: the Urim and Thummim. With those stones -- and a lucky brown rock he found at the bottom of a well -- he set out to transcribe the mysterious markings on the plates.

The resulting divine scripture was the account of the lost tribe of Israel, which had sailed from Canaan across the seas to North America around 2250 B.C. They were met by an exotic land, full of elephants and horses and other things that don't make any sense.

Anyway, these transplanted Hebrews established a vast civilization and were even visited by Jesus, who established a ministry there. This work, a 275,000-word tome entitled The Book of Mormon, provided the foundation for the LDS faith. After the book was translated, the angel came and repossessed the gold plates, which is why they haven't been exhibited in a museum someplace.

The church grew rapidly. And why not? It contained the perfect American theology. For one thing, it proved that the doctrine of Manifest Destiny was divinely-inspired. America was the chosen land. And, of course, it was represented as the church to supplant all others, the One True Faith. So it was the new and improved Christian religion.

Best of all, its prophet was a U.S. citizen, embodying the entrepreneurial spirit that made this country great. He wasn't content to be the Prometheus who brought the world the one true way. He had to claim credit and ownership. The first edition of The Book of Mormon bore the following on its title page:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BY JOSEPH SMITH, JUNIOR,
AUTHOR AND PROPRIETOR.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course, he wasn't just the day manager. Smith adopted the official title of Prophet, Seer, and Revelator, claiming he literally spoke for God. Just like the Pope, except he was a U.S. citizen.

According to the church, God even endorsed the cornerstone of American society, despite its controversial status around the world. That being the centuries-old institution of involuntary servitude. As Joseph Smith, God's mouthpiece, wrote in April 1836:


The fact is inconvertible, that the first mention we have of slavery, is found in the Holy Bible, pronounced by a man who was perfect in his generation, and walked with God.
And so far from that prediction being averse from the mind of God, it remains as a lasting monument to the decree of Jehovah, to the shame and confusion of all who have cried out against the South, in consequence of their holding the sons of Ham in servitude! "And he said, Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant."

. . . The curse is not yet taken off from the sons of Canaan . . . those who are determined to pursue a course, which shows an opposition, and a feverish restlessness against the designs of the Lord, will learn when perhaps too late, for their own good, that God can do His own work, without the aid of those who are not directed by His Counsel.

The Scripture stands for itself; and I believe that these men were better qualified to teach the will of God, than all the Abolitionists in the world.

As prophet, Smith yielded an incessant stream of revelations and divine judgments. God told the Mormons that a man could enter Heaven only by way of plural marriage (aka polygamy). Smith himself had at least 28 wives. But the government hounded them over this, and they were forced to deny it. God also told them to pool all their money and form a Mormon bank. It failed shortly thereafter.

Years after William Miller started predicting that Jesus would be back Real Soon Now, Smith revealed a similar prophecy in February 1835. Except that Smith's was not exactly what you would call specific. When Joseph nagged God about the timing of Christ's return, the Creator answered with clear annoyance:


I was once praying very earnestly to know the time of the coming of the Son of Man, when I heard a voice repeat the following:

Joseph, my son, if thou livest until thou art eighty-five years old, thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man; therefore let this suffice, and trouble Me no more on this matter.
I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face. I believe the coming of the son of Man will not be any sooner than that time.

Surprisingly, God appeared to be uncertain whether Joseph would live to be 85. You would think that if anyone could predict when somebody is going to die, it would be the Almighty. Of course, in the end God was correct to hedge His bet.

It all ended nine years later in an Illinois jail. Before he surrendered to custody in June 1844, Smith made a little speech to his Mormon brethren:


"I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer's morning; I have a conscience void of offense towards God, and towards all men. I shall die innocent, and it shall be said of me -- he was murdered in cold blood."
Or at least, that's what the Mormons say. It seems pretty damn unlikely, when you consider Smith's long track record of interstate flight from prosecution (not to mention evading his creditors). And besides, if he was genuinely acquiescing to his impending martyrdom, then why did he bring the gun?

When the angry mob showed up, the lamb whipped out a pistol and shot three guys, killing two of them. But the crowd was too big and he ran out of bullets. Smith ran to the second-story window and looked out -- more armed vigilantes were outside. Smith climbed out on the windowsill. He may or may not have given a Masonic distress signal: "Is there no help for the widow's son?" Evidently not.

Then Smith either jumped or fell, breaking his shoulder. One of the mob stabbed him several times with a bayonet, then dragged Smith against a well. That's when the mob shot him to pieces.

After Smith's death, the Mormons split in half. His wife and son created the Reorganized LDS church (RLDS), and Brigham Young led the remnants of the original group westward to the Utah Territory. Young blamed the Masons for Smith's murder, and forbade any Mormons from joining the Freemasons. The Masons reciprocated in kind.




timeline
5 Jan 1833 Joseph Smith predicts "And now I am prepared to say by the authority of Jesus Christ, that not many years shall pass away before the United States shall present such a scene of bloodshed as has not a parallel in the history of our nation; pestilence, hail, famine, and earthquake will sweep the wicked of this generation from off the face of the land, to open and prepare the way for the return of the lost tribes of Israel from the north country. [...] Repent ye, repent ye, and embrace the everlasting covenant and flee to Zion, before the overflowing scourge overtake you, for there are those now living upon the earth whose eyes shall not be closed in death until they see all these things, which I have spoken, fulfilled."
15 Mar 1842 Joseph Smith is initiated into the Freemasons. The very next night, he will be promoted to the rank of Master Mason.
6 May 1843 Joseph Smith announces "I prophecy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in the state of Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted, and there will not be so much as a potsherd left for their wickedness in permitting the murder of men, women and children, and the wholesale plunder and extermination of thousands of her citizens to go unpunished."
27 Jun 1844 Joseph Smith pulled out of a jail in Carthage, Illinois and murdered by an angry mob.

Joseph Smith

 

[JoeB131]

I'm a realist, man. .

No, 'man,' you are a bigoted, mentally defective asshole. You've made that more than clear.

and yet you follow me around like a little puppy.... because everyone else ignores you most of the time..

He's so cute...

 

[Listening]

I just love the bitterness in this thread.

I think I'll do my home teaching twice this month.....just to mock you.

 

[Avatar4321]

But you all are trying to foist one of your own on the rest of us as President, and frankly, now would be a good time for some scrutiny.

Nobody is "foisting" anyone. We are going to have an election, you dumb fuck.

Keep telling yourself that, guy....

Keep telling yourself the billionaires haven't already rigged this game.

They've rigged the game? So why play it?

 

[Avatar4321]

I just love the bitterness in this thread.

I think I'll do my home teaching twice this month.....just to mock you.

I hope you do it for better reasons than that.

This thread has good moments too. Not everyone is as bitter as these late arrivals.

 

[Amelia]

I just love the bitterness in this thread.

I think I'll do my home teaching twice this month.....just to mock you.

lol

 

[Listening]

I just love the bitterness in this thread.

I think I'll do my home teaching twice this month.....just to mock you.

I hope you do it for better reasons than that.

This thread has good moments too. Not everyone is as bitter as these late arrivals.

Have you seen any pictures of the K.C temple ? It is awesome !!!

We are really excited to have it open...they are saying May.

It is about 30 minutes from my house.

 

[Brucethethinker]

I started reading this thread at the beginning. Truthteller was offering to answer questions about the mormon religion. I read about 8 pages, then realized the 300 or so pages would take days to read, so I skipped to the end. The last few pages have been mostly generic potty-mouthed insults, which I'm not interested in. I'm here to learn, and I have some questions about the mormon religion. Is there a mormon following this thread who would like to answer them?

 

[Avatar4321]

I started reading this thread at the beginning. Truthteller was offering to answer questions about the mormon religion. I read about 8 pages, then realized the 300 or so pages would take days to read, so I skipped to the end. The last few pages have been mostly generic potty-mouthed insults, which I'm not interested in. I'm here to learn, and I have some questions about the mormon religion. Is there a mormon following this thread who would like to answer them?

Im sure if you ask your questions there will be plenty who will. I know there are a number lurking.

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody is "foisting" anyone. We are going to have an election, you dumb fuck.

Keep telling yourself that, guy....

Keep telling yourself the billionaires haven't already rigged this game.

They've rigged the game? So why play it?

Maybe for no other reason to point out that it's rigged...

 

[Brucethethinker]

Im sure if you ask your questions there will be plenty who will. I know there are a number lurking.

Ok, here are some questions.
1) Do mormons follow beliefs of one head person, somewhat like the catholics follow the pope? For example, a catholic can't say the pope is wrong and still be a catholic, they believe god caused the pope to be there, so at least in regards to matters of doctrine and faith, he is correct.
2) I've heard that mormons don't go on welfare, the church takes care of members who find themselves in financial difficulty. True?
3) Mormons don't smoke or drink alcohol of any kind, true?
4) Does anything in the book of mormon really change anything that was already in the bible? Does it really matter if Jesus was in America?
5) Do mormons believe in the theory of evolution?
That will do for now. Thanks!

 

[daws101]

Im sure if you ask your questions there will be plenty who will. I know there are a number lurking.

Ok, here are some questions.
1) Do mormons follow beliefs of one head person, somewhat like the catholics follow the pope? For example, a catholic can't say the pope is wrong and still be a catholic, they believe god caused the pope to be there, so at least in regards to matters of doctrine and faith, he is correct.
2) I've heard that mormons don't go on welfare, the church takes care of members who find themselves in financial difficulty. True?
3) Mormons don't smoke or drink alcohol of any kind, true?
4) Does anything in the book of mormon really change anything that was already in the bible? Does it really matter if Jesus was in America?
5) Do mormons believe in the theory of evolution?
That will do for now. Thanks!

answer to question 1. the Mormons have a"president" who in there eyes is chosen by god
to lead the church,he is also the head of the council of 12, the equivalent to the popes' entourage.
"good" Mormons never disagree with the pres, I've never heard of any members being excommunicated for that reason but it's been nearly 40 years since I left Mormonism for reality...so anything is possible.
BTW there are plenty of other rules to break to get booted from the church(I refer to the Mormon belief system as the church because "they" believe that it's the only true church)
answer to question 2. the Mormons have their own welfare system which provides food clothing and cash...it's called deseret industries and has a beehive logo.
also the Mormons own the largest cattle ranch on earth and many farms.
answer to question 3.good Mormons are not suppose to to drink or smoke or use caffeine.
other then the obvious health effects ,the reason we were given was to keep gods temple clean.
like most faiths that demand their adherents follow a health code,there are some that do and some that don't and some who lie about it.
answer to question 4. the Mormons claim that the events portrayed the book of Mormon run concurrent with the events of the bible.
there is no evidence at ALL to substantiate these claims,it's a matter of faith not logic.
answer to question 5. NO....they are strict creationists.
some even believe that god destroyed other planets to create this world ....that's why we have fossils.