The Truth about Mormons

[ABikerSailor]

For a second there, I thought we could have a discussion but true to form you have not disappointed by layin the leather on us. Well we believe it is a true story and you don't, so where were we again?

Well, there are several reasons why I say this. First, Joseph Smith was looking for something to use as a way to get his 15 min of fame. He started reading (probably), and came across some form of enlightenment (although, I kinda think he was influenced by a demon. They're quite attractive (most) you know. But, that's only because in the world, the more beautiful something is, generally the more dangerous it is. Example would be a badger or a wolverine.......both are beautiful to watch from a distance, but, get close and.......

I also think he'd been studying Jewish texts also, because there are quite a few similarities between some of the Mormon tenents, and they look like they were lifted from the Hebrews.

Ron Hubbard did the same thing incidentally......he'd started to fade as a sci fi writer, so, in order to keep his fame alive (and make a buck or two in the process), he started Scientology.

Interestingly enough, if one is smart enough to look for the similarities and avoid the differences, they can tell the true from the false in any situation. Me? I hold 3 theologies close, Tao, Christianity, and Judaism. All 3 are similar enough in their viewpoint and presentation to be taken as true.

Now.....your religion, while it claims to be inclusive, is not. They don't want you unless you think exactly like they do. Militant Islam is also similar in this respect.

And......one way to tell a true religion that belongs to God from one that doesn't? Just ask one question, and answer it honestly.......Does it foster creation in all it's varieties or not? If not, it's a false religion.

Tell ya what.....check out a program on History Channel sometime (it's on today) called "Children of Abraham". You may find out some really interesting stuff.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Well, there are several reasons why I say this. First, Joseph Smith was looking for something to use as a way to get his 15 min of fame. He started reading (probably), and came across some form of enlightenment (although, I kinda think he was influenced by a demon. They're quite attractive (most) you know. But, that's only because in the world, the more beautiful something is, generally the more dangerous it is. Example would be a badger or a wolverine.......both are beautiful to watch from a distance, but, get close and.......

I also think he'd been studying Jewish texts also, because there are quite a few similarities between some of the Mormon tenents, and they look like they were lifted from the Hebrews.

Ron Hubbard did the same thing incidentally......he'd started to fade as a sci fi writer, so, in order to keep his fame alive (and make a buck or two in the process), he started Scientology.

Interestingly enough, if one is smart enough to look for the similarities and avoid the differences, they can tell the true from the false in any situation. Me? I hold 3 theologies close, Tao, Christianity, and Judaism. All 3 are similar enough in their viewpoint and presentation to be taken as true.

Now.....your religion, while it claims to be inclusive, is not. They don't want you unless you think exactly like they do. Militant Islam is also similar in this respect.

And......one way to tell a true religion that belongs to God from one that doesn't? Just ask one question, and answer it honestly.......Does it foster creation in all it's varieties or not? If not, it's a false religion.

Tell ya what.....check out a program on History Channel sometime (it's on today) called "Children of Abraham". You may find out some really interesting stuff.

Your theory that three different religions are all true is interesting. Don't they all have fundamental differences? If there are such differences how can they all be true?
The experience Joseph Smith had was a result of his confusion as to which church to join. He read James chapter 1 verse 5 which says"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, which giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him."
He went to the forest and prayed and actually had two different forces pulling at him. The first force actually choked him and caused everything to go black all around him and cause him to think he was going to die. Then before he gave himself away to destruction a pillar of light shone down on him and released him from the power which had overcome him.
God and Jesus appeared and told him not to join any of the churches.
Judging from the two forces which attacked him. I would assume the more powerful force to be God's. With 2 conflicting forces that overcame him it is easy to see which one was of god and which was of the devil.
The one trying to kill him would not be of god. the one rescuing him was God himself.
I gather that you think Joseph did this to make a buck. Well if that's the case he didn't do very well and lived at best a modest lifestyle without many riches.

About our religion being inclusive, the Book of Mormon states in 2 Nephi Chapter 28: "Wherefore all are alike unto God, both male and female, bond and free, black and white, and he remembereth the heathen and Jew and Gentile and he inviteth all to come unto him that all may be made partakers of salvation."

Some people think that we are not inclusive because we follow the teachings of scriptures. Discrimination against sin is not discrimination against people. All are invited to repent of their sins and "come unto him."

 

[Eightball]

Your theory that three different religions are all true is interesting. Don't they all have fundamental differences? If there are such differences how can they all be true?
The experience Joseph Smith had was a result of his confusion as to which church to join. He read James chapter 1 verse 5 which says"If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, which giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him."
He went to the forest and prayed and actually had two different forces pulling at him. The first force actually choked him and caused everything to go black all around him and cause him to think he was going to die. Then before he gave himself away to destruction a pillar of light shone down on him and released him from the power which had overcome him.
God and Jesus appeared and told him not to join any of the churches.
Judging from the two forces which attacked him. I would assume the more powerful force to be God's. With 2 conflicting forces that overcame him it is easy to see which one was of god and which was of the devil.
The one trying to kill him would not be of god. the one rescuing him was God himself.
I gather that you think Joseph did this to make a buck. Well if that's the case he didn't do very well and lived at best a modest lifestyle without many riches.

About our religion being inclusive, the Book of Mormon states in 2 Nephi Chapter 28: "Wherefore all are alike unto God, both male and female, bond and free, black and white, and he remembereth the heathen and Jew and Gentile and he inviteth all to come unto him that all may be made partakers of salvation."

Some people think that we are not inclusive because we follow the teachings of scriptures. Discrimination against sin is not discrimination against people. All are invited to repent of their sins and "come unto him."

The main tripping point, and carefully overlooked by Mormons such as yourself, is, "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word(scripture/bible0 of God.".

The whole Mormon salvation basis is premised on "praying" and if you get some kind of a sign or communication that Mormonism is valid, then it is.

Well, there is a very wicked, and fallen Seraphim, knows as Lucifer, that just jumps for joy when a human being made in God's image trusts his or her's dreams, feelings/emotions, or some weird happenings, to justify a system of belief.

This is why an Omnipotent God left us with a very uncorrupted, and reliable foundation or compass; known as the bible.

Why the bible, cause the enemy of our souls will do any and everything to lead us astray from the Truth of God's character, and attributes, as he/Lucifer is for a time, the Prince of this world. Mormons, as well as JW's, Unitarians, and so many so-called Christian sects, are all blinded by the Master of disguise, Lucifer himself. He has access to your dreams, he can manifest euphoric feelings in one's body, he can create what seems to be very lucid validations that contradict God's Word.

True Christians can be tempted as well, but I believe that scripture assures that they cannot lose their salvation. As Paul succinctly said, "We are new creatures/creations in Christ Jesus". When we received the Holy Spirit upon believing/accepting by our wills that Christ is the end-all answer to shedding our sinful Adamic natures and leaving them in the grave, we live "anew", in Christ. Yet, we still can be deceived, or tempted, as we still live in our earthly flesh that still gives Lucifer and the power of sin access to harass, and thwart God's plans being worked-out in our lives, if possible.

The new life of Christ in us, the Hope and Glory of the world, is our new foundation as new Creations in Christ. Paul refers to each true believer as a Royal Ambassador and a Royal Priest.

Mormonism is bogged-down in ritualistic mimicking of O.T. tops such as the Aaronic Priesthood, that just creates a prideful division between fellow Mormon believers. These Aaronic Priests are entrusted with secrets that the non-Temple Mormons lack, and are looked on as though they have "arrived".

With God, the playing field is level. Billy Graham or the Pope doesn't get a better mansion in heaven than the lowliest beggar who believes and is saved by Christ.

Christianity is not a secretive organization or organism. In fact biblical Christianity is so transparent, and it's adherents are supposed to be, as they have no bragging rights about being a Christian. They were saved by "grace" or what would be termed unmerited favor, not because they were "goodie two shoes", and didn't drink coffee, booze, commit adultry, cuss, etc.... It isn't our actions of life that make us sinners, its the very heart and core of our humanity that is sinful from birth. Romans 3:23 clearly says that "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.". Being an Aaronic Priest doesn't cleanse one from have a sinful nature. It's just manmade works or religiosity in it's plainest form.

Also, the average Mormon convert is taught that they are basically, "Victims" of this unbelieving world, and that the average Protestant, or bible pastor is their foe, and teaching corrupted teachings about God.

Mormons fill the total profile of "Cult Member". They are supposed to keep themselves isolated from any teachings that disagree with their doctrine; they are not suppose to do independent bible study, and discover on their own what God has to say to them, but must rely on their elder's recommendations and direction. This is all anti-biblical, as Paul, and Jesus said that when one become a true Christian, they possess within themselves the Spirit of Christ/Holy Spirit/The Comforter/Enabler/Counselor to help them understand the scriptures.

This flies in the face of Mormon doctrine that is scared to the core to let their followers discover the bible's nuggets of truth for them from God. If independent study were allowed, you'd see the greatest exodus from the LDS church in recent history.

As for Joseph Smith Jr. dabbling in Freemasonry, would you call being a 33 degree Mason, dabbling?

Also would you be willing to look at the actual newspaper archives in Illinois where Joseph Smith was killed to see if he really died a martyr's death?

Here's the whole account of J.S. Jr.'s stay in the Carthage Jail. It ain't heroic folks, and it isn't befitting of a prophet in anyway. You will read actually accounts and see pictures of the jail where he was incarcerated.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/josephsmithsdeath.htm#Joseph%20Kills%20Two
The LDS church has to answer for a myriad of false prophesies, a myriad of terrible deeds done by their early founders...........and so many skewed and unfounded statements in their Doctrine of Covenants as well as the BOM.

The very golden plates that Moroni the angel gave to Joseph Smith Jr. were specifically described in dimension. The dimensions indicate that these golden plates were extremely heavy for just one man to carry alone, yet J.S. Jr. ran with these plates for a great distance. J.S. Jr. must have possessed superman strength and stamina.

Ask yourself, why did President Theodore Roosevelt demand the the American flag be taken down from the Salt Lake City Temple?

Check out the actual dimensions of the plates, and figure in the weight of pure gold, and you'll see such discrepencies, your head will spin!

Also a sample of the alleged new or revised Egyptian Heiroglyphics was sent to a renown Egyptologist at a respected university in New York, and he came to the conclusion that the supposed heiroglyphics were so poorly written, and basically a mess of incoherent symbols.

Also, ever wonder how these golden plates just conveniently disappeared? There were no Phillistines in those days to raid and pilfer away the Mormon's plates, as they did the Ark of the Covenant back in David's time.

Also, lets have an answer for the total absence of any archeological validation of the BOM both in N. and S. America?

Also, lets have an answer for the DNA roots of the American indigenous Indian not having Middle Eastern/Hebrew roots?

There is no need for latter day prophets, as we have God's Word, the indwelling H.S. to guide us, and Pastor/teachers/elders to teach, encourage, us .

We also have direct intercession with God through Christ, our mediator, and Saviour.

These old men that sit in high offices in Salt Lake are no more prophets than Belzabub. They are mere humans. The time of prophets is over. Christ or the Messiah fulfilled and is fullfilling scripture. His second coming is at hand.

I trully pray for those who have followed this false gospel of Joseph Smith's imaginations. In a sense he's a type of Anti-Christ, as Jesus said many would come before His 2nd advent.

Again, bottom line, the way to discern false teaching or a cult is: How do the deal with Jesus? Is He God incarnate, or is He just a created being, bestowed with some divinity, or just a prophet among prophets?

Only God can forgive sins, and Jesus was nearly stoned to death on many occassion for doing just that. He also said, "Before Abraham I AM". The Jews took up stones to kill Him. He asked why do you take up stones to kill Me? They said, "Because you claim to be God!".

Either Jesus was a lunatic, a liar, a charlatan, or He was who He said He was and still is.

Who are you going to believe? Joseph Smith Jr. or Jesus of the bible?

 

[Skeptik]

This is why an Omnipotent God left us with a very uncorrupted, and reliable foundation or compass; known as the bible.

Are you serious? Have you read this "reliable foundation or compass?"

Specifically, have you read through Leviticus?

If so, then I have some questions for you:

a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

 

[Truthspeaker]

Well done, well done. Nice try but again I will give you a break because these grand ideas you have about what we believe have mostly been answered throughout the discussion board. I will forgive you of that and assume you are only trying your best to promote the word of God. now where were we.....hmmmm. oh yes,
Thank you for fulfilling the prophecy about Joseph Smith that said that his name should be had throughout all the world for good and for evil.
Next point.which one should I deal with first. forgive me if I miss a few from your wordy post and you can bring it back up and I will surely deal with it.
Ok we'll start with OUR TRUE TEACHINGS about JESUS CHRIST. you will be happy to know that we believe the same thing in that Jesus is the Great I AM. The Jehovah of the Old Testament. Please don't lump us in with other religions who don't claim the divinity of Christ. Just because Jehovah has a Father doesn't mean Jesus didn't create the world. He is the Master of all and by him, thru him and of him can man be saved. We also believe we are saved by grace, after all we can do. No one can save themselves by themselves. Christ must have made the atonement to make up for our inability to perfect ourselves in this life. Works are important to salvation however because Jesus taught that we must do many times throughout the beatitudes and examples of the rich young man, who was told to sell all he had and follow him. All the beatitudes are descriptions of actions we are supposed to excercise. In the parable of the Good Samaritan Jesus asked the lawyer, which of the three men who passed by the wounded man was friend unto him. The lawyer answered, he that nourished him and performed acts of kindness(the samaritan). Jesus answered him and said "Go, and DO thou likewise."

Don't hate on us just because we believe in doing good works. It doesn't mean we undervalue grace. We have all learned this teaching through individual Bible study by the way.

It is a false claim that you state our leaders teach us not to read the Bible. You just were fed some line by a preacher who told you that. We also don't consider people or preachers of other faiths to be our enemies. In fact we are taught to be tolerant of others beliefs and strive to be more Christlike in our actions toward others at all times.

In the Book of Mormon it states "We talk of Christ we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies that our children may know to whom they may look for a remission of their sins."
Not Christian enough for you?

Any half-wit knows that the Bible was not written by the fingers of God. It was not written as one book originally as well. Any half knowledgeable person realizes they are not in chronological order and the compilation of these writings, EVERYONE knows was assembled together by scholars and not prophets or leaders of God's church. EVERYONE knows that the Bible original manuscripts are also nowhere to be found like the original Book of Mormon. EVERYONE knows that the Bible was entirely in the possession of the Roman Catholic Church for hundreds of years and many plain and precious truths have been lost in translation or taken out of the Bible completely. This is fact. It is a stubborn thing. It cannot be refuted.
That being said, we need to know how to correctly interpret the Bible. Who has authority to do this. Only a prophet or apostle of God. Thus the need for a prophet. Amos chapter 3 verse 7 states clearly. 'Surely the Lord God will do nothing except he reveal it to his servants the Prophets."

I never said Joseph Smith dabbled in Free Masonry. He learned it through and through. So what? I already explained why he did it if you care to read a few posts up.

The heiroglyphics found on the plates were found to be true characters by professor Charles Anthon. however the Book of Mormon prophets wrote that the characters were written in "reformed Egyptian".
ANYONE knows that after 1000 years languages can be changed completely even with written history of them. Want an example you say? Go try and understand a single word from the archaic English Beowulf. Good luck shakespeare.

Of course an egyptologist living in today's modern world wouldn't be able to understand it? Ancient Egyptian is still a language that cannot be spoken anymore. only read.

None of us are taught vicitmization. Only history of what happened to our early members in the persecutions of Missouri who ordered and extermination of all mormons from the state.

yes there were false prophets spoken of that would come in the last day in Matthew chapter 7. Christ said, "By their fruits shall ye know them."

How about Josephs fruits then.
In the 1830's joseph Smith prophesied the Civil war and who would fire the first shots and where in the state of South Carolina. He said it would "probably arise over the slave question" and that the southern states would be divided against the northern states and the southern states would call upon the nation of Great Britain for aid.
Every single detail happened. Oh.... didn't know that the redcoats sent supplies and sold weapons to the south did you? Didn't know that the first shots were fired at fort sumter South Carolina did you. This was a very detailed prophesy that was predicted over 40 years in advance. There is no way around that. do you need more?

The Jehovah witness guy prophesied the coming of Jesus Christ in 1914. There is an example of a false prophecy my friend. Better do your research.

oh yeah, you wanted validation for dna roots of native americans. The first inhabitants of the people of this continent came from Asia. they were the Jaredites and later mixed in with nephites lamanites and mulekites. Because of this origin and the passing of thousands of years of mixing dna, you aren't going to find an exact jewish dna match. You gotta do your research.

Oh yes of course. the dreams aspect. there are good angels and bad angels. inspired visions and false visions. The good ones will persuade people to believe in Jesus Christ and to pray continually to him. As were the ones Joseph encountered. The bad ones will never tell you to pray. They will always lead people away from the teachings of Christ.

I DEMAND YOU TO TELL ME ONE INSTANCE WHERE THE BOOK OF MORMON TEACHES AGAINST CHRIST.

there is no such passage. You have been fed a line that you have rehearsed and done no research of your own.

I noticed you conceded the point on the changes to the Book of Mormon.

I am glad you have moved on.

Oh yes.... Archaelogical evidenc of the Book of Mormon. Be careful about opening this link because you might not have the guts to try and refute it after seeing the clear evidence.Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility


As to the death of the prophet. I think an angry mob of anti mormons who storm a jail and kill the leader of a religious organization qualifies as a martyrs death. Not really much of a leg for you to stand on.

Oh. yes just because joseph fired a pistol and injured three people as a result of defending himself makes him no less a martyr. I know they didn't die right away, but if some of them died later as a result, then good for Joseph.

 

[Eightball]

Well done, well done. Nice try but again I will give you a break because these grand ideas you have about what we believe have mostly been answered throughout the discussion board. I will forgive you of that and assume you are only trying your best to promote the word of God. now where were we.....hmmmm. oh yes,
Thank you for fulfilling the prophecy about Joseph Smith that said that his name should be had throughout all the world for good and for evil.
Next point.which one should I deal with first. forgive me if I miss a few from your wordy post and you can bring it back up and I will surely deal with it.
Ok we'll start with OUR TRUE TEACHINGS about JESUS CHRIST. you will be happy to know that we believe the same thing in that Jesus is the Great I AM. The Jehovah of the Old Testament. Please don't lump us in with other religions who don't claim the divinity of Christ. Just because Jehovah has a Father doesn't mean Jesus didn't create the world. He is the Master of all and by him, thru him and of him can man be saved. We also believe we are saved by grace, after all we can do. No one can save themselves by themselves. Christ must have made the atonement to make up for our inability to perfect ourselves in this life. Works are important to salvation however because Jesus taught that we must do many times throughout the beatitudes and examples of the rich young man, who was told to sell all he had and follow him. All the beatitudes are descriptions of actions we are supposed to excercise. In the parable of the Good Samaritan Jesus asked the lawyer, which of the three men who passed by the wounded man was friend unto him. The lawyer answered, he that nourished him and performed acts of kindness(the samaritan). Jesus answered him and said "Go, and DO thou likewise."

Don't hate on us just because we believe in doing good works. It doesn't mean we undervalue grace. We have all learned this teaching through individual Bible study by the way.

It is a false claim that you state our leaders teach us not to read the Bible. You just were fed some line by a preacher who told you that. We also don't consider people or preachers of other faiths to be our enemies. In fact we are taught to be tolerant of others beliefs and strive to be more Christlike in our actions toward others at all times.

In the Book of Mormon it states "We talk of Christ we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies that our children may know to whom they may look for a remission of their sins."
Not Christian enough for you?

Any half-wit knows that the Bible was not written by the fingers of God. It was not written as one book originally as well. Any half knowledgeable person realizes they are not in chronological order and the compilation of these writings, EVERYONE knows was assembled together by scholars and not prophets or leaders of God's church. EVERYONE knows that the Bible original manuscripts are also nowhere to be found like the original Book of Mormon. EVERYONE knows that the Bible was entirely in the possession of the Roman Catholic Church for hundreds of years and many plain and precious truths have been lost in translation or taken out of the Bible completely. This is fact. It is a stubborn thing. It cannot be refuted.
That being said, we need to know how to correctly interpret the Bible. Who has authority to do this. Only a prophet or apostle of God. Thus the need for a prophet. Amos chapter 3 verse 7 states clearly. 'Surely the Lord God will do nothing except he reveal it to his servants the Prophets."

I never said Joseph Smith dabbled in Free Masonry. He learned it through and through. So what? I already explained why he did it if you care to read a few posts up.

The heiroglyphics found on the plates were found to be true characters by professor Charles Anthon. however the Book of Mormon prophets wrote that the characters were written in "reformed Egyptian".
ANYONE knows that after 1000 years languages can be changed completely even with written history of them. Want an example you say? Go try and understand a single word from the archaic English Beowulf. Good luck shakespeare.

Of course an egyptologist living in today's modern world wouldn't be able to understand it? Ancient Egyptian is still a language that cannot be spoken anymore. only read.

None of us are taught vicitmization. Only history of what happened to our early members in the persecutions of Missouri who ordered and extermination of all mormons from the state.

yes there were false prophets spoken of that would come in the last day in Matthew chapter 7. Christ said, "By their fruits shall ye know them."

How about Josephs fruits then.
In the 1830's joseph Smith prophesied the Civil war and who would fire the first shots and where in the state of South Carolina. He said it would "probably arise over the slave question" and that the southern states would be divided against the northern states and the southern states would call upon the nation of Great Britain for aid.
Every single detail happened. Oh.... didn't know that the redcoats sent supplies and sold weapons to the south did you? Didn't know that the first shots were fired at fort sumter South Carolina did you. This was a very detailed prophesy that was predicted over 40 years in advance. There is no way around that. do you need more?

The Jehovah witness guy prophesied the coming of Jesus Christ in 1914. There is an example of a false prophecy my friend. Better do your research.

oh yeah, you wanted validation for dna roots of native americans. The first inhabitants of the people of this continent came from Asia. they were the Jaredites and later mixed in with nephites lamanites and mulekites. Because of this origin and the passing of thousands of years of mixing dna, you aren't going to find an exact jewish dna match. You gotta do your research.

Oh yes of course. the dreams aspect. there are good angels and bad angels. inspired visions and false visions. The good ones will persuade people to believe in Jesus Christ and to pray continually to him. As were the ones Joseph encountered. The bad ones will never tell you to pray. They will always lead people away from the teachings of Christ.

I DEMAND YOU TO TELL ME ONE INSTANCE WHERE THE BOOK OF MORMON TEACHES AGAINST CHRIST.

there is no such passage. You have been fed a line that you have rehearsed and done no research of your own.

I noticed you conceded the point on the changes to the Book of Mormon.

I am glad you have moved on.

Oh yes.... Archaelogical evidenc of the Book of Mormon. Be careful about opening this link because you might not have the guts to try and refute it after seeing the clear evidence.Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility


As to the death of the prophet. I think an angry mob of anti mormons who storm a jail and kill the leader of a religious organization qualifies as a martyrs death. Not really much of a leg for you to stand on.

You failed to notice that your Prophet was given a gun and killed two people in the crowd. He was hardly a lamb gone to slaugher. Hardly a martyr. Also, why was the crowed enflamed against him? He did break into a newspaper shop. He was a criminal. That's your church founder.

It(Mormon doctrine) teaches against Christ, because it defines Christ according to Joseph Smith Jr.'s definition of Christ, not the bible's.

Two different Christs. You believe in the Mormon christ, I accept the biblical Christ. They are distinctly different. Your Jesus is a merely a glorified man, who was spawned from sexual relations between your Mormon god, and Mary. The biblical Jesus is and was and will always be God incarnate, born of a Virgin (Mary).

 

[Truthspeaker]

You failed to notice that your Prophet was given a gun and killed two people in the crowd. He was hardly a lamb gone to slaugher. Hardly a martyr. Also, why was the crowed enflamed against him? He did break into a newspaper shop. He was a criminal. That's your church founder.

It(Mormon doctrine) teaches against Christ, because it defines Christ according to Joseph Smith Jr.'s definition of Christ, not the bible's.

Two different Christs. You believe in the Mormon christ, I accept the biblical Christ. They are distinctly different. Your Jesus is a merely a glorified man, who was spawned from sexual relations between your Mormon god, and Mary. The biblical Jesus is and was and will always be God incarnate, born of a Virgin (Mary).

I see you conceded most points I brought up. Nowhere in our doctrine does it state that god had sex with MARY. She wouldn't be a virgin then would she. we don't teach that. The Bible states Jesus was born of the virgin mary and was impregnated by the power of the Holy Ghost. Not Zeus coming down and having sex with a woman to create Hercules. where do you get this stuff?
You don't even read my posts. I already addressed joseph shooting three men. Good for him. The phrase lamb to the slaughter was a metaphor. He knew he would die and he did. Not prophetic enough for you? You apparently don't want to acknowledge that the man who tried to cut off his head was struck dead without injury when he lifted his sword. don't brush that under the rug. You had better read up on your history and my posts before you come again.

Joseph did order the destruction of a printing press in the which the building was unharmed and the printing material was destroyed because they were inciting riot and violence against mormons. the press was violating freedom of the press by inciting violence and calling them to arms to raid mormon villages and rape their wives. Read up. It's true.
Joseph was incarcerated illegally again and would have again been found innocent as he had been found in his previous 4 charges.

Even if he had individually and unlawfully broken into a press, would that merit a death sentence. And look at the character of the men who read that press and painted themselves black to avoid identification. They were responding to the call of the press to opress Mormonism.
Martyrs death. Period.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Your theory that three different religions are all true is interesting. Don't they all have fundamental differences? If there are such differences how can they all be true?

A truck and a sports car are 2 fundamentally different things, but, they both work on the same principles, so therefore, how can both be true? See what I'm saying?

If you are astute enough to know that in some cases, even though the people are looking at the same thing, but from two different viewpoints, both are fundamentally correct.

Watch the Universal Torah Network on the web sometime concerning the schools of Hilel and Shemai. Both are correct, just different interpretations of what should be done. But then again, God is like that. He can bridge gaps between people.

Like I said......watch the show "The Children of Abraham" on History Channel.

 

[chloe]

I don't agree with LDS but you have a right to your religion but I do have a problem with how some of the men treat their wives or women in general. Part of my family is mormon living outside of Salt Lake and the men treat women like they are inferior and just belong home with the kids and being their servants. I also worked with this lady who was mormon and she had to ask her husband for permission to pretty much go to the bathroom. Can you tell me where it says women are your servants in the book of mormon?

My Mormon husband wasn't abusive like that, usually the mormoms would like the woman to stay home and do domestic duties and raise the kids, if it's ideal and the finances permit it. The official church anyway, however in some of the polygamist communities you may see some abuse take place on the kids or wives.

 

[Truthspeaker]

A truck and a sports car are 2 fundamentally different things, but, they both work on the same principles, so therefore, how can both be true? See what I'm saying?

If you are astute enough to know that in some cases, even though the people are looking at the same thing, but from two different viewpoints, both are fundamentally correct.

Watch the Universal Torah Network on the web sometime concerning the schools of Hilel and Shemai. Both are correct, just different interpretations of what should be done. But then again, God is like that. He can bridge gaps between people.

Like I said......watch the show "The Children of Abraham" on History Channel.

i would have to disagree with you. A truck and a sports car are both vehicles that can take you where you want to go. I don't know much about Tao, but Christianity believes Christ is the way to salvation and faith in him will allow you to overcome your sins and go to heaven. Judaism deep down in their doctrine fundamentally believes Christ was a false prophet. That is the kind of difference that I am talking about. Both contain great teachings but their methods for achieving salvation are totally different. Only one can be true, and that is what people must find out for themselves.
I would like to watch the show if I can find time for it by the way. I promise to get around to it.

 

[Luissa]

Unfortunately, in order to be a prophet, you've gotta be one or the other, a Jew, or a B'nei Noach (Son of Noah).

Joseph Smith was neither.

Ever notice his name is "Joe Smith"? He's a nobody.

I don't agree with the mormon religion but if he wants to believe Joseph Smith was a prophet he has every right to believe he is. And to call someone else's bible bastardized is just wrong. You guys don't like it when we question your beliefs and then you go and question someone else's.

 

[KittenKoder]

Thing is, the original Mormon teachings before the perversion was that no one religion can claim to be the one true one.

 

[Luissa]

The Book of Mormon itself rebukes people like you have described in Jacob Chapter 2 and the Doctrine and Covenants says that men like this have excercised unrighteous dominion and are "worse than the heathen" and "amen to that man's priesthood."
Men like you have described have no scriptural or doctrinal base to stand on and are some of the vilest of sinners according to us.

Thank you are a straight answer! I just see many mormon men treating their wives this way having grown up with many mormons and have relatives who are. And it isn't just in your religion either.

 

[Eightball]

Thank you are a straight answer! I just see many mormon men treating their wives this way having grown up with many mormons and have relatives who are. And it isn't just in your religion either.

It goes much deeper than the way the treat their wives here on earth. The Mormon men also hold the power to ressurrect their wives from the grave. So be a good, obedient Mormon wife, or you might be in for some eternal peril.

Try and find that in the bible, never the less it sure presents the appearance of inequality between husband and wife. He doesn't spiritually lead in the marriage biblically, but also rules in Mormon doctrine.

 

[sky dancer]

Thing is, the original Mormon teachings before the perversion was that no one religion can claim to be the one true one.

I lost you. What are you calling the perversion? What do you base your claim that the Mormons have stated that no one religion can claim to be the true one.

Funny that, nearly ALL religions claim to be the true one.

This may be off-topic but it would be interesting to discuss what we all think truth is.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Thing is, the original Mormon teachings before the perversion was that no one religion can claim to be the one true one.

False

 

[sky dancer]

False

For the benefit of those of us who don't know much about LDS, what do you think Kitten is talking about and what are your counter claims.

I'm willing to read whatever history or doctrine backs your assertion. It's an important point.

 

[Truthspeaker]

Thank you are a straight answer! I just see many mormon men treating their wives this way having grown up with many mormons and have relatives who are. And it isn't just in your religion either.

We pretty much address this issue in most every General Conference we have about treating our wives with respect and honor. They are the greatest of all God's creations. we do believe that they have different roles and special abilities that men in general do not have. But they are absolutely equals to men.

 

[Truthspeaker]

It goes much deeper than the way the treat their wives here on earth. The Mormon men also hold the power to ressurrect their wives from the grave. So be a good, obedient Mormon wife, or you might be in for some eternal peril.

Try and find that in the bible, never the less it sure presents the appearance of inequality between husband and wife. He doesn't spiritually lead in the marriage biblically, but also rules in Mormon doctrine.

To clarify our official doctrine, the only person with power to raise anyone from the dead is Christ. To think we raise our wives is false doctrine.
In fact the Bible needs to be interpreted or could otherwise seem quite harsh on women and demeaning towards them. For example in 1 Timothy 2:11-12 it states:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

Or another example is 1 Corinthians 14:34-37 which reads, 34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

There needs to be proper interpretation of such things. No where in the Book of Mormon will you find such statements.

 

[Truthspeaker]

I lost you. What are you calling the perversion? What do you base your claim that the Mormons have stated that no one religion can claim to be the true one.

Funny that, nearly ALL religions claim to be the true one.

This may be off-topic but it would be interesting to discuss what we all think truth is.

it is off topic but I take the dictionary definition: Conformity to fact or actuality. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.