The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[Doug1943]

Thanks for asking. Most people just make ignorant assumptions.

Free speech:
Damn close to a purist. I'll certainly bend on things like screaming FIRE in a crowded theater, BOMB in an airport, or direct violent threats. Not much else. So, I'm against conservative voices being cancelled on college campuses, and I'm against a bakery owner being punished for refusing to bake a freaking cake.

Young children and "alternative sexualities"
Absolutely not, unless it's within the confines of psychological help. 18 and over, freedom of speech.

Teaching American History
Required. If both ends of the spectrum are worried about what's being taught or ignored, then they need to work together and agree on the basics. I wish they would do that anyway so that we could all be on the same page.

Whoa! Welcome, comrade! We're united on (1) and (2) anyway. Let me make up your William Buckley Memorial Fan Club card!

On teaching American history. Both sides won't agree on the basics. That's the problem.

Here's an insight: you would enjoy reading it, if you have not, EH Carr's What Is History? Carr was not a Marxist, but was close to being one. Nevertheless, he was a good historian. In that book he took up the question of historical fact.

Why can't we just write a history based on facts, 'wie es eigentlich gewesen', as the great 19th Century historian Ranke wanted. ("As it actually happened.")

Because, said Carr, there are an infinite number of facts. We select those we want to incorporate into our history, according to various criteria, some of which may be unconscious.

For instance, it is a well-known fact that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. You can't read even a superficial history of Rome without learning about that fact. But ... Caesar crossed many other rivers. And many other Romans crossed the Rubicon. Why Caesar, and that river, and that one crossing? Because historians decided that this particular 'fact' was significant, and the others weren't. Historians select facts.

And writing about American history would require fact selection, and someone who loves America, and someone who doesn't, will want to choose different facts. They will agree that some facts are important, but will not agree on all of them.

Here's a proposal: let's let children study two versions of history: the Left's version, and the Right's version. Sort of like a 'parallel text' when you're learning a foreign language. (And, really, now we should teach history via videos. So, pair them up. Ours and ... well, I won't say 'yours', but rather 'theirs'.)

Hey, my fellow rightwingers! Stop knocking Mac. He's responded. Ask him his positions on more things, although these three are hot-button issues on the Left. I can see some of them preparing a voodoo doll of him right now, and getting ready to run their knitting needles through it.

 

[BackAgain]

Again, a childish emoji from Mac1958 is always a sign of- “you got me, I have no logical refutation.”

 

[Mac1958]

Whoa! Welcome, comrade! We're united on (1) and (2) anyway. Let me make up your William Buckley Memorial Fan Club card!

On teaching American history. Both sides won't agree on the basics. That's the problem.

Here's an insight: you would enjoy reading it, if you have not, EH Carr's What Is History? Carr was not a Marxist, but was close to being one. Nevertheless, he was a good historian. In that book he took up the question of historical fact.

Why can't we just write a history based on facts, 'wie es eigentlich gewesen', as the great 19th Century historian Ranke wanted. ("As it actually happened.")

Because, said Carr, there are an infinite number of facts. We select those we want to incorporate into our history, according to various criteria, some of which may be unconscious.

For instance, it is a well-known fact that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. You can't read even a superficial history of Rome without learning about that fact. But ... Caesar crossed many other rivers. And many other Romans crossed the Rubicon. Why Caesar, and that river, and that one crossing? Because historians decided that this particular 'fact' was significant, and the others weren't. Historians select facts.

And writing about American history would require fact selection, and someone who loves America, and someone who doesn't, will want to choose different facts. They will agree that some facts are important, but will not agree on all of them.

Here's a proposal: let's let children study two versions of history: the Left's version, and the Right's version. Sort of like a 'parallel text' when you're learning a foreign language. (And, really, now we should teach history via videos. So, pair them up. Ours and ... well, I won't say 'yours', but rather 'theirs'.)

Hey, my fellow rightwingers! Stop knocking Mac. He's responded. Ask him his positions on more things, although these three are hot-button issues on the Left. I can see some of them preparing a voodoo doll of him right now, and getting ready to run their knitting needles through it.

Well, I'm no historian, but it's not as if there isn't plenty of material. When I look at interviews with kids being asked simple freaking questions and can't answer them, it's clear that we have a few miles of room for improvement.

I think that reasonable minds from across the political spectrum could come up with enough basics to fill a curriculum. But then I have to drag out the dreaded word: Compromise. Like we did with our Constitution. Person A gets some and gives some. So do Persons B and C.

I still have a tiny bit of faith left that we can collaborate and innovate in America. But if such an effort were ever made, we'd need to lock up these people in a room with no cameras or microphones to play to. There are reasonable minds across the spectrum, but once the lights go on, the posturing begins. I'm sick of it.

 

[francoHFW]

The solution is turn off the TV NEWS. They work for dollars, not for facts.

... except for every single respected media in the world but Murdoch and Internet nut jobs of the GOP. Don't give up the ship and vote for crap GOP promises they've never kept. all they ever do is cut taxes on the rich and programs for everyone else. we are still the only developed country without a living wage health care for all Great infrastructure and vacations daycare paid parental leave, ID card to end illegal immigration, and mainly taxing the rich more than everyone else for crying out loud. because you people are totally misinformed by scumbags. end of story

 

[BackAgain]

Again, a childish emoji from Mac1958 is always a sign of- “you got me, I have no logical refutation.”

 

[leftwinger]

Loser

The MAGA cult is determined to bring the US to default. Their plan to overthrow the government failed. So now they will try to kill the country economically
.

All was great until you launched phony virus scam to get your grimy hands back in the US treasure. But you knew that.

 

[leftwinger]

Well, I'm no historian, but it's not as if there isn't plenty of material. When I look at interviews with kids being asked simple freaking questions and can't answer them, it's clear that we have a few miles of room for improvement.

I think that reasonable minds from across the political spectrum could come up with enough basics to fill a curriculum. But then I have to drag out the dreaded word: Compromise. Like we did with our Constitution. Person A gets some and gives some. So do Persons B and C.

I still have a tiny bit of faith left that we can collaborate and innovate in America. But if such an effort were ever made, we'd need to lock up these people in a room with no cameras or microphones to play to. There are reasonable minds across the spectrum, but once the lights go on, the posturing begins. I'm sick of it.

lock up these people in a room with no cameras or microphones to play to. There are reasonable minds across the spectrum, but once the lights go on, the posturing begins.

All but your BS huh? Everyone is wrong but your phony fence riding hogwash. Got it.


Again, you support men in womens bathrioms in lipstick in dresses working in this fraudulent regjme paid out of my tax dollars you lying commee POS. Pound sand loon.

 

[Mac1958]

All but your BS huh? Everyone is wrong but your phony fence riding hogwash. Got it.


Again, you support men in womens bathrioms in lipstick in dresses working in this fraudulent regjme paid out of my tax dollars you lying commee POS. Pound sand loon.

Uh, but I don't.

And I think the best ideas come from across the spectrum.

You're zero for two there.

So I'm afraid you're just a paranoid loon who swallows too much media bullshit and can't think for himself.

 

[leftwinger]

Uh, but I don't.

And I think the best ideas come from across the spectrum.

You're zero for two there.

So I'm afraid you're just a paranoid loon who swallows too much media bullshit and can't think for himself.

Go declare your stolen goods to IRS you loony clown. You go for all LW BS. You have never stood up for anything that is not Anti-American filth. Maybe a token here or there. Enough already. Im eating here!

 

[Mac1958]

You go for all LW BS. You have never stood up for anything that is not Anti-American filth.

Zero for three. Zero for four.

Face it, Einstein. You're out of your league. I'm not a mindless sheep like you.

Tough shit.

 

[Orangecat]

I no longer engage with you because you constantly lie about my positions.

No, it's because you get your ass handed to you every time, kid.

 

[francoHFW]

All but your BS huh? Everyone is wrong but your phony fence riding hogwash. Got it.


Again, you support men in womens bathrioms in lipstick in dresses working in this fraudulent regjme paid out of my tax dollars you lying commee POS. Pound sand loon.

they are not men according to psychology psychiatry science and experts, they are women trapped in men's bodies. And despite all your brainwashed hate and ridiculous BS, there has not been a single incident with any of it. they are about as dangerous as kittens LOL. change the damn channel Try tolerance and reality, God will not be amused...

 

[Orangecat]

they are not men according to psychology psychiatry science and experts, they are women trapped in men's bodies. And despite all your brainwashed hate and ridiculous BS, there has not been a single incident with any of it. they are about as dangerous as kittens LOL. change the damn channel Try tolerance and reality, God will not be amused...

 

[Mac1958]

No, it's because you get your ass handed to you every time, kid.

From the perspective of an obedient Trumpster.

Pfffft.

 

[Orangecat]

From the perspective of an obedient Trumpster.

Pfffft.

Concession accepted.

 

[Mac1958]

Concession accepted.

Concession accepted.

 

[Orangecat]

Concession accepted.

Nice response, PeeWee.

 

[Mac1958]

You can always tell who will never be able to collaborate with others to make things better.

They're the nutters who just can't stand the thought that some people can do it.

So, they can just stay on the fringes and scream.

 

[scruffy]

To start:

• Ranked choice voting
• Short, strict term limits
• Bipartisan redistricting conditions
• Publicly-funded elections
• Get rid of dark money

For starters. Not everyone will agree with everything, but that's what communication, collaboration and innovation are for. Maybe that would yield NEW IDEAS.

Like the way our Constitution was created.

Okay, great ideas.

Let's talk implementation.

(I'm an engineer, I'm all about landing the plane).

The last two bullet points, will definitely require Constitutional amendments.

How do you propose to get that done?

 

[JimH52]

All was great until you launched phony virus scam to get your grimy hands back in the US treasure. But you knew that.

The virus scan that trump ignored...and caused the death of thousands of people?