The two ends of the political spectrum are killing us

[Doug1943]

There is no here's the thing
With out the protection of rights for the minority that a Republic gives leftist would have been silenced back when they first started spewing their shit.

And thank God for "the protection of rights for the minority that a Republic gives". Yes, it means we have to put up with speech and writings and posts that we hate. That's one of the prices for being free men and women in a Constitutional Republic. The Left doesn't believe in this. They think our Republic is just a cover for the rule of the dominant class/race/sex.

And they hate free speech.

We need not join them in this.

 

[Doug1943]

You have ideas but are too long winded

Yes, you're right. You're not the first person to observe this.

The problem is, serious political discussion can't be had with just quick sound-bites. In fact, the exchange of silly personal insults, which seems to typify a lot of political 'discussion' here, is pointless.

So, let the ones who are interested in hearing the, or a, conservative case read and reply, and I'll do them the courtesy of reciprocating.

 

[leftwinger]

Bottom line: LW Marxists have infected the US GOVT. They have destroyed everything they can over 50 years. US Black population, Courts, Churches, Schools, GOVT, Voting, Politicians, Immigration, MSM.

They are in progress to destroy or Jail Police, Military, business, brown populations, internet.They have enough phony opposition or censorship in place to make it easier to destroy anything left. An unqualified, illegitimate puppet GOVT is installed, working for the enemies of America. America or American(s) Weatlh is disappearing (again, like Obiden 1.0). J6 are dragged thru kangaroo DC courts.

Question: what can or will be done about it?

 

[Mac-7]

Well, first I think that "groomer" is a stupid word, now used in any situation as nothing more than an attack, just as the Left has done with "racist". Two terribly important ideas diluted, trivialized and wrecked for nothing more than perceived partisan gain.

That said, if they're sincere about the stated goal on the website, I'm all for it. And if they're sincere, this would be an excellent example of a group holding its own side accountable, unlike what we see from the two "major" parties.

People who support the transgender agenda of grooming children are groomers

 

[Mac-7]

Yes, you're right. You're not the first person to observe this.

The problem is, serious political discussion can't be had with just quick sound-bites. In fact, the exchange of silly personal insults, which seems to typify a lot of political 'discussion' here, is pointless.

So, let the ones who are interested in hearing the, or a, conservative case read and reply, and I'll do them the courtesy of reciprocating.

In my opinion the greatest speech in American history was Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address

I dont expect you to be that eloquent or concise, but at least try to avoid the other extreme also

 

[DBA]

Yes, let's have Disney History. Here's the thing. If you feel good reading about history, you aren't reading history, you are reading propaganda. Slavery was a thing. Genocide of Native Americans was a thing. Jim Crow was a thing. Pretending they didn't happen, let's look at all the "Good" stuff.

Nobody says we shouldn’t teach about slavery, genocide and Jim Crow Laws. My children are in a private, Christian school and were taught about all of these in American History and they were taught that these were wrong. They were also taught that despite these and other indiscretions, which EVERY country has, the positive attributes of US history far out-weigh the negative, thus, lets focus on those. This, however, doesn’t fit the left-wing victim(no personal responsibility) narrative.

 

[JoeB131]

There is no here's the thing
With out the protection of rights for the minority that a Republic gives leftist would have been silenced back when they first started spewing their shit.

Except you guys were only ever really in the majority for a breif time between Reagan and Bush.

And you had to lie to get there.

 

[j-mac]

It’s this way because there are a large number of reprehensible bigots in this country bent on having it all their way or there will be hell to pay.

Nothing new for America. That shit has been the dynamic all along. As usual, those bigots have to be dragged into the future kicking and screaming all the way.

Meh, maybe, but not all who are being labeled "bigots" today are actually so....Many are being labeled so for simply having disagreement with the current social agenda of progressivism....

 

[JoeB131]

Nobody says we shouldn’t teach about slavery, genocide and Jim Crow Laws. My children are in a private, Christian school and were taught about all of these in American History and they were taught that these were wrong. They were also taught that despite these and other indiscretions, which EVERY country has, the positive attributes of US history far out-weigh the negative, thus, lets focus on those. This, however, doesn’t fit the left-wing victim(no personal responsibility) narrative.

Well, let's look at that.

If you talk to a Japanese, they don't realize that they did anything wrong during World War II. Why, because they aren't taught it.

We have a country that was built on genocide and slavery. Native Americans and Blacks are the poorest strata of our society.

These things are not unconnected.

That white people don't want to talk about it or just want to talk about the "good stuff", there simply isn't enough "positives" to outweigh the negatives.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[DBA]

We have a country that was built on genocide and slavery. Native Americans and Blacks are the poorest strata of our society.

You can make similar claims about virtually any country in the world. This is just a silly argument.

 

[Doug1943]

In my opinion the greatest speech in American history was Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address

I dont expect you to be that eloquent or concise, but at least try to avoid the other extreme also

Churchill once gave a long speech in the House of Commons. Later, when someone criticized its excessive length, he said, "I didn't have time to make it shorter."
I try to back up what I say with links that people can check out for themselves, and sometimes quote a few lines from them since I know many people won't click on a link. This makes the posts longer.

The thing is, you can express your opinion in one or two sentences. But to justify your opinion, to explain it a bit. and to give the things that make you believe what you do, and which might convince another reasonable person, takes more than one or two sentences.

So it's a trade off. I could post one- or two-liners that everyone would read, but which would only 'convince' the people who already agree with me. Or I could take the chance that we have some readers among us -- after all, "Liberals read, conservatives watch TV" as a conservative pundit noted -- and post something that gives the reader something to think about.

I agree with you about the Gettysburg Address. Have you read Gary Wills' brilliant book about it? [Lincoln at Gettysburg - Wikipedia ] (He's an example of someone who went the other way. He used to be one of us, and became one of you. He's a really interesting -- and puzzling -- personality. [ Garry Wills - Wikipedia ])

And, that book, or the key idea in it, is the center of a long-standing political debate within the Right: are we a 'propositional nation', or not. But I won't go into that here. (Sighs of relief all round.)

Another book you'd like, if you haven't read it, is The Killer Angels, about the Battle of Gettysburg, by Michael Shaara. Absolutely brilliant, one of the top two war novels I've ever read.

 

[scruffy]

There are no good leftists

But there are no-good leftists.

 

[Mac-7]

The thing is, you can express your opinion in one or two sentences. But to justify your opinion, to explain it a bit. and to give the things that make you believe what you do, and which might convince another reasonable person, takes more than one or two sentences.

Based on my experience if we disagree on something we will take that schism to our graves

So I do end to just stating my opinions and leave the arguments to others

But nevertheless I do respect your effort

 

[Doug1943]

Based on my experience if we disagree on something we will take that schism to our graves

So I do end to just stating my opinions and leave the arguments to others

But nevertheless I do respect your effort

Do you mean that, for everything you believe -- every matter of fact (not value) -- that you are 100%, totally correct, with no possibility of being even a little bit wrong?

And I'm not talking about mathematical theorems or laws of physics here. I'm talking about society ... things like the effects of seriously increasing the amount of money we give to welfare mothers, or raising the debt limit, or having policemen read suspects their Miranda rights.

I don't believe it. I believe you are like me, in principle: some things you are 99% sure about, some things only 51% sure about. You're always open to dis-confirming evidence. Given a change in the facts as you know them, you are, in principle willing to change your mind.

In fact, I thought that liberals believed that the above is one of the things that differentiates them from us evil conservatives, wedded to our false beliefs as we are.

 

[JoeB131]

You can make similar claims about virtually any country in the world. This is just a silly argument.

1) Not really. I'm pretty sure Luxembourg never had slavery or genocided anyone.
2) This isn't about other countries. It's about understanding our own history and the resulting inequities.

Let's take Native Americans. We pretty much spent 200 years pushing them from the Appalachians to the West Coast, systematically taking their lands, destroying their cultures, confining them to Reservations (which would become the model for Hitler's concentration camps.).

We then spent another 50 years playing Cowboys and Indians, making westerns that celebrated their genocide as a good thing while they languished on those reservations.

Then stupid white people like you go to them and tell them they are making too big of a deal about these past injustices and they should "buck up". the wonderful combination of mean and ignorant that illustrates today's conservatives.

 

[leftwinger]

1) Not really. I'm pretty sure Luxembourg never had slavery or genocided anyone.
2) This isn't about other countries. It's about understanding our own history and the resulting inequities.

Let's take Native Americans. We pretty much spent 200 years pushing them from the Appalachians to the West Coast, systematically taking their lands, destroying their cultures, confining them to Reservations (which would become the model for Hitler's concentration camps.).

We then spent another 50 years playing Cowboys and Indians, making westerns that celebrated their genocide as a good thing while they languished on those reservations.

Then stupid white people like you go to them and tell them they are making too big of a deal about these past injustices and they should "buck up". the wonderful combination of mean and ignorant that illustrates today's conservatives.

Who did the murdering savages confiscate the land from? Prosperity involes imminent domain. Sane story worl-wide (see Africa). Case closed.//

 

[JoeB131]

Who did the murdering savages confiscate the land from? Prosperity involes imminent domain. Sane story worl-wide (see Africa). Case closed.//

You're babbling, buddy.

Heck, Nazis could have made the same argument about Slavs and Jews.

 

[Mac-7]

Do you mean that, for everything you believe -- every matter of fact (not value) -- that you are 100%, totally correct, with no possibility of being even a little bit wrong?

And I'm not talking about mathematical theorems or laws of physics here. I'm talking about society ... things like the effects of seriously increasing the amount of money we give to welfare mothers, or raising the debt limit, or having policemen read suspects their Miranda rights.

I don't believe it. I believe you are like me, in principle: some things you are 99% sure about, some things only 51% sure about. You're always open to dis-confirming evidence. Given a change in the facts as you know them, you are, in principle willing to change your mind.

In fact, I thought that liberals believed that the above is one of the things that differentiates them from us evil conservatives, wedded to our false beliefs as we are.

I’m saying, and I suspect you agree, that we are a broken society, and a meeting of the minds is not possible

I’m not inclined to compromise with the left on matters of principle

and they have no interest in compromising with me

Look at whats going in in Portland with the democratic mayor and DA

It defies common sense that shoplifting should be allowed as long as the criminals take less than $1000 at a time

If left and right cant agree on basic issues such as that we cant agree on anything

 

[leftwinger]

You're babbling, buddy.

Heck, Nazis could have made the same argument about Slavs and Jews.

Thats how the world always works. Still going on but Marxist selectivity ignore.

 

[JoeB131]

Thats how the world always works. Still going on but Marxist selectivity ignore.

So you'll be okay when it's white people's turn, then?