The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[JBeukema]

I have news from America as late as July 19. Nothing had then transpired from the Federal convention. I am sorry they began their deliberations by so abominable a precedent as that of tying up the tongues of their members. Nothing can justify this example but the innocence of their intentions, & ignorance of the value of public discussions. I have no doubt that all their other measures will be good & wise. it is really an assembly of demigods. Genl. Washington was of opinion they should not separate till October.

Assembly of Demigods?

 

[JBeukema]

I said all religions is what unite us.

That's not what you said, liar.

That is the point I am making about religion.
86% of this nation is religious
76% of them are Christians.
It is what unites us as Americans and makes us a better nation.

 

[peach174]

I said all religions is what unite us.

That's not what you said, liar.

That is the point I am making about religion.
86% of this nation is religious
76% of them are Christians.
It is what unites us as Americans and makes us a better nation.

It is if you would have read what else I said before that.
Stop taking my statements out of context.

 

[JBeukema]

Fuck the treaty of Tripoli.

Stupid Founding Fathers and their words

That was an appeasement towards the Muslim pirates that were terrorizing everybody.

All the talk of religion was appeasement toward the preachers and stpid, ignorant masses.

Goes both ways, hon.

And it's NOT a founding document.

It was signed off by a FF and was legally binding, unlike your favourite propaganda.

Found is not equal to LAW. To found a nation upon Christianity is not to establish a theocracy.

Yes, it is. If this nation were founded on Christianity, it would be founded don such pillars of the faith as all other religions being wrong or, if we're still bound by the ten commandments, killing all unbelievers.

These are simple fucking concepts

And yet you can't grasp them.

The majority of the FF were Liberals and it was their Liberal principles that led them to found this nation and influenced its form.

Have you ever had to write a college-level paper? Ever????

Yep. I was grading at a college level in eight grade, as well.

Reading comprehensions seems to be your weakness, though.

I'm not talking particularly about a college paper in college...I mean have you ever had to draft a grown-up proposal for anything, have you ever delivered a speech, have you ever written anything?? Except here?

Yep. You haven't, though. Else you'd know that speeches and other mass propaganda are generally aimed at about an eighth grade reading level in order to have the best effect on the idiot masses.

 

[JBeukema]

Alzheimer's is a terrible thing.

That explains so much. All this time I thought you were just retarded.

 

[AllieBaba]

Er, no, it doesn't.

Can you establish the Treaty of Tripli as a founding document?

I don't believe so.

 

[JBeukema]

I think this is why you really have a problem with this. Christan Morals.

Like being pro-slavery?

Where polygamists can not have many wives, also Muslims, gays can not get married. That kind of laws.

Jewish law allows polygamy and so did the Christian churches for hundreds of years.

Care to try again?

 

[TheBrain]

No law is on par with the COTUS.

COTUS means nothing, remember? You insist it's not Law. Therefore it's not legally binding and is of no relevance.

Or have you recanted your earlier stupidity?

Sir, I never once said that COTUS didn't matter. You absolutely KNOW I never said that.

Damn.......

 

[JBeukema]

He never insisted it wasn't law.

Yes, he did. Just last night.

Why do you insist on making an even bigger fool of yourself?

Oh yeah, Alzheimer's...

 

[Uncensored2008]

You need to read it again. She's saying where the law restricts polygamists to one wife, it would also restrict gay marriage. And yet the law doesn't restrict the people living together despite it.

Thanks for clarifying.

It is not up to us to dictate the lifestyles of others. It does me no harm if my neighbor has no wife or twenty wives. It neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket. (With apologies to Tom Jefferson)

 

[JBeukema]

give me an example of a law you think is fair and I will prove it isn't.

Okay, tell me why this is unfair:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That is not a law.

Want to try again?

There ya go, Allie. COTUS is not Law. Brain says so.

 

[AllieBaba]

Er..tripoli, not tripli. Or Tripply.

Something else...that treaty says that we aren't founded upon Christian RELIGION, not that we aren't founded upon Christian PRINCIPLE.

Do you understand the difference? Words do mean something here. We have established that the FF were of different RELIGIONS already...and they never were interested in establishing a formal state religion...but they did all concur that they wanted to found the country using basic Christian TENETS.

 

[AllieBaba]

You need to read it again. She's saying where the law restricts polygamists to one wife, it would also restrict gay marriage. And yet the law doesn't restrict the people living together despite it.

Thanks for clarifying.

It is not up to us to dictate the lifestyles of others. It does me no harm if my neighbor has no wife or twenty wives. It neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket. (With apologies to Tom Jefferson)

I'm just clarifying what Peach said, because you really misunderstood it.

 

[peach174]

I think this is why you really have a problem with this. Christan Morals.

Like being pro-slavery?

Where polygamists can not have many wives, also Muslims, gays can not get married. That kind of laws.

Jewish law allows polygamy and so did the Christian churches for hundreds of years.

Care to try again?

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

 

[Uncensored2008]

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

I think you could go as far as saying that the abolition movement was 100% Christian.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think this is why you really have a problem with this. Christan Morals.

Like being pro-slavery?

Where polygamists can not have many wives, also Muslims, gays can not get married. That kind of laws.

Jewish law allows polygamy and so did the Christian churches for hundreds of years.

Care to try again?

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

Christian churches did not allow polygamy for hundreds of years or even one year. A one man/one woman orthodoxy had been pretty well nailed down by the time of Jesus and was certainly taught as the norm before the first century came to a close. The very few who deviated from that were not part of mainstream Christianity and had to invent something other than the Bible to condone it. So its safe to say that orthodox Christianity has essentially never endorsed nor accepted polygamy.

Ancient Jewish law did accept polygamy but by the First Century a one man/one woman orthodoxy had already established itself in Judaism though it was not written into official Jewish Law until around 1030 A.D.

 

[JBeukema]

Er..tripoli, not tripli. Or Tripply.

Something else...that treaty says that we aren't founded upon Christian RELIGION, not that we aren't founded upon Christian PRINCIPLE.

Christianity is a religion. Christian principles means principles of the Christian RELIGION.

'in no way'

No matter how you spin it, you're simply wrong.

Do you understand the difference? Words do mean something here. We have established that the FF were of different RELIGIONS already

So those non-Christians founded a religion based on principles of a religion they didn't adhere to?

No, you twit, they founded the nation on Liberal principles. Theres were the words and principles of Locke and Rousseau, not Moses and Peter.

Christian tenets? Like killing the unbelievers and all other religions being wrong?

I'll grant you one Christian tenet- they did believe in slavery, which Jesus was cool with. I'll grant you that one example of religion getting in the way of progress and preventing people from enjoying the liberty their Liberal principles told them everyone should enjoy.

Yes, unfortunately, they believed enough of the bible to have slaves. Congratufuckinglations on that one.

 

[bodecea]

I think this is why you really have a problem with this. Christan Morals.

Like being pro-slavery?

Where polygamists can not have many wives, also Muslims, gays can not get married. That kind of laws.

Jewish law allows polygamy and so did the Christian churches for hundreds of years.

Care to try again?

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

Indeed they did....and many other christians fought FOR slavery. In fact, the Methodist and Baptist sects of christianity split over the issue.

 

[JBeukema]

I think this is why you really have a problem with this. Christan Morals.

Like being pro-slavery?

Where polygamists can not have many wives, also Muslims, gays can not get married. That kind of laws.

Jewish law allows polygamy and so did the Christian churches for hundreds of years.

Care to try again?

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

And they spat upon the Laws of God in doing so.

See: Epheisans 6:5 ; Colossians 3:22

Thanks for providing another example of people putting their own morals and principles above those of Christianity and 'god'.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G-UajSDW_E]YouTube - The non morality of theism[/ame]

Not only were theirs not Christian morals or principles- they were distinctly anti-Christian as they were directly at odds with biblical teachings and principles. They realized their religion was evil and were willing to place their own conscience above god- to be like Lucifer himself, elevating themselves above God and making His word and Law second to their own.

It was the rejection of religion and its dogma that allowed such progress.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Science-Liberty-Democracy-Reason-Nature/dp/0060781505]Amazon.com: The Science of Liberty: Democracy, Reason, and the Laws of Nature (9780060781507): Timothy Ferris: Books[/ame]

 

[JBeukema]

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

I think you could go as far as saying that the abolition movement was 100% Christian.

Quite the opposite. To help an escaped slave to to spit on Jesus and the Law of God himself. it is to declare your own conscience superior to God's. It is to be like Lucifer and state that you shall be like the most high, deciding what is good and what is evil.