The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Foxfyre]

Sigh. I really wish some of our peanut gallery was getting their history out of competent history books instead of from anti-Christian websites.

 

[bodecea]

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

I think you could go as far as saying that the abolition movement was 100% Christian.

What precentage of the pro-slavery movement do you think was christian?

 

[peach174]

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

I think you could go as far as saying that the abolition movement was 100% Christian.

Quite the opposite. To help an escaped slave to to spit on Jesus and the Law of God himself. it is to declare your own conscience superior to God's. It is to be like Lucifer and state that you shall be like the most high, deciding what is good and what is evil.

They didn't? so then Wikipedia is wrong?

The escape network was solely "underground" in the sense of being an underground resistance. The network was known as a "railroad" by way of the use of rail terminology in the code.[12] The Underground Railroad consisted of meeting points, secret routes, transportation, and safe houses, and assistance provided by abolitionist sympathizers. Individuals were often organized in small, independent groups, which helped to maintain secrecy since some knew of connecting "stations" along the route but few details of their immediate area. Escaped slaves would move along the route from one way station to the next, steadily making their way north. "Conductors" on the railroad came from various backgrounds and included free-born blacks, white abolitionists, former slaves (either escaped or manumitted), and Native Americans. Churches also often played a role, especially the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), Congregationalists, Wesleyans, and Reformed Presbyterians as well as certain sects of mainstream denominations such as branches of the Methodist church and American Baptists.

 

[JBeukema]

Not a single Christian was ever an abolitionist.

Anyone who places their own self above God and sees fit to declare what is right or what is evil as though their declarations were above the Laws and commandments of the LORd and the words of Christ himself is no follower of Christ. Beware these false Christians and their false churches, for Jesus warned of they who pretend to be holy while leading men down the broad and winding road to damnation.

 

[JBeukema]

They didn't? so then Wikipedia is wrong?

You should know that Wikipedia should never be used as an authority on anything. It has its uses and its place, but you should avoid depending on it as the foundation of your argument.

No, no Christian was ever an abolitionist, for Jesus says that slaves are to obey their masters with the same love they have for God. To contradict this is to contradict Christ, and one who goes against Christ and the WORD of God is no Christian.

Next you'll be claiming Christians are to accept polyandry, homosexual marriage, and bestiality.

Jesus warns us in his Revelation of false doctrines, churches, and spiritual leaders. The broad and winding road attracts many with proud hearts who would place themselves above God and their word and Law above His.

How many of those [false] churches you listed truly obey all of God's laws and Christs teachings?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Quite the opposite.

Quite an ignorant statement.

To help an escaped slave to to spit on Jesus and the Law of God himself.

What an idiotic claim.

it is to declare your own conscience superior to God's.

You're a complete moron and make it up as you go.

It is to be like Lucifer and state that you shall be like the most high, deciding what is good and what is evil.

What a fool you are.

{The modern American abolition movement emerged in the early 1830s as a by-product of religious revivalism popularly known as the Second Great Awakening. Revivalistic tenets led abolitionists to see slavery as the product of personal sin and to demand emancipation as the price of repentance. Abolitionists recognized that slavery received moral support from racial prejudice, and they lobbied to overturn the nation's racially discriminatory practices.}

AAP Brief History of Movement

You fucking moron.

 

[Uncensored2008]

What precentage of the pro-slavery movement do you think was christian?

Slavery was an economic principle, kind of like abortion. Most who had slaves may have claimed to be Christians, but their motive was the almighty dollar.

 

[AllieBaba]

Er..tripoli, not tripli. Or Tripply.

Something else...that treaty says that we aren't founded upon Christian RELIGION, not that we aren't founded upon Christian PRINCIPLE.

Christianity is a religion. Christian principles means principles of the Christian RELIGION.

'in no way'

No matter how you spin it, you're simply wrong.

Do you understand the difference? Words do mean something here. We have established that the FF were of different RELIGIONS already

So those non-Christians founded a religion based on principles of a religion they didn't adhere to?

No, you twit, they founded the nation on Liberal principles. Theres were the words and principles of Locke and Rousseau, not Moses and Peter.

Christian tenets? Like killing the unbelievers and all other religions being wrong?

I'll grant you one Christian tenet- they did believe in slavery, which Jesus was cool with. I'll grant you that one example of religion getting in the way of progress and preventing people from enjoying the liberty their Liberal principles told them everyone should enjoy.

Yes, unfortunately, they believed enough of the bible to have slaves. Congratufuckinglations on that one.

Back to the dictionary with you, impudent 6th grader.

Tell me...have you ever written an adult paper? This means AFTER high school.

Tenet:

tenet
Definition
ten·et
[ ténnət ]
http://www.bing.com/caption/image/?bid=yCvB6rfJRFKJKg&bn=EDPG&form=DTPDIOTo hear the pronunciation, install Silverlight


ten·etsPlural

NOUN

1.
something accepted as important truth: an established fundamental belief, especially one relating to religion or politics "a basic tenet of Christianity"
define tenet - Bing DICTIONARY

Religion
re·li·gion

noun \ri-ˈli-jən\
Definition of RELIGION

1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Religion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So religion means a specific set of observances.
Tenet means a basic belief.

Do you understand the difference?

 

[bodecea]

What precentage of the pro-slavery movement do you think was christian?

Slavery was an economic principle, kind of like abortion. Most who had slaves may have claimed to be Christians, but their motive was the almighty dollar.

The "No True Scotsman" argument????

 

[JBeukema]

To help an escaped slave to to spit on Jesus and the Law of God himself.

What an idiotic claim.

See Ephesians. I've already cited where Jesus tells us that slaves should always obey their masters with love in their hearts as they serve God himself.

it is to declare your own conscience superior to God's.

You're a complete moron and make it up as you go.

No, that'd by you and the false Christians. You pick and choose what parts of the bible you want to follow and ignore the bits you don't like. Not a jot or tittle? They throw aside entire passages and see fit to add your own words and thoughts as you see fit!

They hold up the first ten commandments of God's Law and claim they would uphold them, yet they refuse to obey the Law when it makes clear the penalty for those who transgress the Law.

It is to be like Lucifer and state that you shall be like the most high, deciding what is good and what is evil.

What a fool you are.

Is slavery okay or no? God says it is. He told the Jews whom they may enslave and Jesus told slaves to obey their masters in good faith.

That you feel the need to 'reform' your church reveals that you know your religion is evil. You cling to small traces of old customs and titles for sense of legitimacy, but you are no more true Christians than Maxine Waters is a Liberal. You create your own Law, write your own moral code, and build your own custom religion like a pagan. Then you dress it up in selected portions of God's Word and build for yourself false churches so you can pretend your word and your Law is on par with God's. It is the pride of the heart describes in Isaiah.

It is the very pride of Lucifer himself.

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Maybe you should read your bible for once.

 

[AllieBaba]

JB, you're unhinged on this topic.

 

[JBeukema]

What precentage of the pro-slavery movement do you think was christian?

Slavery was an economic principle, kind of like abortion. Most who had slaves may have claimed to be Christians, but their motive was the almighty dollar.

The "No True Scotsman" argument????

Except he's defined 'Scotsman' to mean 'Irishman'.

The bible is on the side of the anti-abolitionists.

Or, more accurately, the biblical position would to be to reform the slavery system, freeing slaves after 7 years and making a few other changes.

 

[JBeukema]

JB, you're unhinged on this topic.

It's your bible.

Only you claim that it has any truth or merit to it.

Only you want to claim to be a Christian- an adherent of what's in [your favourite version of] this book.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not a single Christian was ever an abolitionist..

Ah, so you're just a lying troll.

I got it.

 

[JBeukema]

Not a single Christian was ever an abolitionist..

Ah, so you're just a lying troll.

I got it.

Actually, I'm just someone who's actually ready God's word and knows what it says.

 

[AllieBaba]

Slavery was an economic principle, kind of like abortion. Most who had slaves may have claimed to be Christians, but their motive was the almighty dollar.

The "No True Scotsman" argument????

Except he's defined 'Scotsman' to mean 'Irishman'.

The bible is on the side of the anti-abolitionists.

Or, more accurately, the biblical position would to be to reform the slavery system, freeing slaves after 7 years and making a few other changes.

Well you have to take into account..what exactly was a slave in biblical times?

They could own property.
They had rights.
I THINK children were born free.....

They entered into their own slavery *contracts*.
And they were to be released from that contract every 7 years, regardless of whether or not they had fulfilled their side of the bargain.

Many were in debt to their *masters*, and so worked as *slaves* to repay the debt, knowing that they could earn their release sooner...and that the property they earned or were given during their term of enslavement would be theirs to keep.

Biblical slaves are NOT parallel to slaves that came to us from an ISLAMIC slant....southern slaves came by way of the African slavetrade..which was NOT based upon the Christian and Hebrew understanding of slavery, but on the ISLAMIC and TRIBAL understanding of it. Whole different cup of tea.

 

[Foxfyre]

Not a single Christian was ever an abolitionist..

Ah, so you're just a lying troll.

I got it.

In truth, I no longer give JB or Bodecea credit for even attempting to debate the topic. It is obvious to me they are not even attempting to be factual in their comments and are intentionally playing the more serious members like a fiddle however dishonest they have to be to accomplish that.

I'm sure that is great sport for them. But it leaves me quite bored.

Uncensored, Peach, Allie et al, I think we're all essentially on the same page here and agree on the basics even if we don't always use the same language to define them. If we do get a more constructive discussion going I'll be back.

Ya'll all have a great day.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The "No True Scotsman" argument????

Nope.

I'm simply talking about motive. I make no statement as to whether slave holders were "true Christians" or not - their motive was money.

 

[TheBrain]

Like being pro-slavery?

Jewish law allows polygamy and so did the Christian churches for hundreds of years.

Care to try again?

You do realize we are talking about America and American laws don't you?
And many Christians helped slaves with the underground railroad.

Indeed they did....and many other christians fought FOR slavery. In fact, the Methodist and Baptist sects of christianity split over the issue.

They did not you lying troll. They split because those who formed the Methodists favored a strong federal government and the ones that formed the Baptists believed that it the states should have more power.

History major my ass.

 

[JBeukema]

The "No True Scotsman" argument????

Nope.

I'm simply talking about motive. I make no statement as to whether slave holders were "true Christians" or not - their motive was money.

If they're guided primarily my financial (worldly) concerns, then they're not saved; they're not Christians.