The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Gadawg73]

The answer regarding whether the US was founded upon Christianity is I believe more complex than the OP has stated. Were many of the original settlers Christians? Yes. Was American culture strongly influenced by Christianity? Yes. Was the original intent of the Constitution to establish Christianity in America? No.

I think the founders did have Judeo-Christian principles in mind when writing the Constitution. Historical writing shows the faith and belief of many of the founders and that they were very much influenced by their Christian beliefs. I also think that many of the quotes found which seem to be a “slam” against Christianity are really an outward showing of distaste for the organized Christian religions of the time and the hypocrisy of not following Christian teachings.

In other words, many of those who professed to be Christian did not actually strive to follow Christian teachings. I view some of our founders as wanting to change this and for people to return to actually following Christian teachings. Yes, there were deists among the founders, however, I think the lack of Christians striving to follow Christian teachings may have precipitated some to be disenfranchised with organized religion and "created" these deists.

Regardless, it is clear to me that our country would be much different without the influence of Christianity through the country’s individual Christians. There are too many who try to diminish the positive effect Christianity has had on America, including the framing of the Constitution. In the end, each country is built by the individuals that occupy it and the majority of the founding Americans were Christian. To try and say this did not have an effect on the establishment of America and on writing the Constitution would be incorrect.

Well, you makd some valid points such as Christianity has had a great positive influence over all of America. No one is doubting that. Christianity is not the question.
The US Constitution is the law that the founders BASED THIS COUNTRY ON.
The Constituion, specifically the seperation of powers, was adopted from the Greek Constitution.
The Greeks at that time were not Christian.
The problem that I see here is a complete failure of the religous right TO ADMIT that it is the US Constitution THAT THIS COUNTRY IS FOUNDED ON.
Never was religion. Hint: Christianity is a religion.
We are a nation of LAWS, not men and their Gods and religion.
Now admit it and get over it. You will feel better.
The United States of America was founded on LAWS.

 

[AllieBaba]

“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity…I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and the attributes of God.”
[June 28, 1813; Letter to Thomas Jefferson]

“We recognize no Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus!”
[April 18, 1775, on the eve of the Revolutionary War after a British major ordered John Adams, John Hancock, and those with them to disperse in “the name of George the Sovereign King of England." ]

• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
[letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress]

We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." --October 11, 1798

"I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen." December 25, 1813 letter to Thomas Jefferson

"Without Religion this World would be Something not fit to be mentioned in polite Company, I mean Hell." [John Adams to Thomas Jefferson, April 19, 1817]

John Adams : Quotes from a Christian

 

[Gadawg73]

It's founded on Christian VALUES you nincompoop.

Nobody except the idiot left has ever said it was founded on the Christian religion.

You mean Christian values such as slavery, womanizing, having kids with slaves, smuggling, drinking, gambling and brewing spirits?
You may want to teach those kind of values as Christian to your kids but I don't.

 

[JBeukema]

It's founded on Christian VALUES you nincompoop.

Not quite. Compare the secular to the biblical Law. It is founded on the Liberal ideology and the Christian religions only indirectly influenced their thinking through the common ethic- much of which holds near-universal across the majority of the world's ethical codices and laws.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's founded on Christian VALUES you nincompoop.

Nobody except the idiot left has ever said it was founded on the Christian religion.

You mean Christian values such as slavery, womanizing, having kids with slaves, smuggling, drinking, gambling and brewing spirits?
You may want to teach those kind of values as Christian to your kids but I don't.

Much better we teach them the things the Greeks found worthy.

BTW, the greeks had slaves, too. I believe they made their own brewski, as well.

Anyway, the rest of your post is likewise without merit. As are most of your posts. The point of the matter is that you have no right to tell me what I may or may not teach my children. I can teach my children the tenets of Christianity, because as a free society and one which was founded on Christian principles, I have that right. As you do.

I also have the right to elect representatives which reflect my own beliefs. In our country, they are protected when it comes to voicing their religious views, and nobody is allowed to shut them up. Period. Ever.

 

[Christopher]

The answer regarding whether the US was founded upon Christianity is I believe more complex than the OP has stated. Were many of the original settlers Christians? Yes. Was American culture strongly influenced by Christianity? Yes. Was the original intent of the Constitution to establish Christianity in America? No.

I think the founders did have Judeo-Christian principles in mind when writing the Constitution. Historical writing shows the faith and belief of many of the founders and that they were very much influenced by their Christian beliefs. I also think that many of the quotes found which seem to be a “slam” against Christianity are really an outward showing of distaste for the organized Christian religions of the time and the hypocrisy of not following Christian teachings.

In other words, many of those who professed to be Christian did not actually strive to follow Christian teachings. I view some of our founders as wanting to change this and for people to return to actually following Christian teachings. Yes, there were deists among the founders, however, I think the lack of Christians striving to follow Christian teachings may have precipitated some to be disenfranchised with organized religion and "created" these deists.

Regardless, it is clear to me that our country would be much different without the influence of Christianity through the country’s individual Christians. There are too many who try to diminish the positive effect Christianity has had on America, including the framing of the Constitution. In the end, each country is built by the individuals that occupy it and the majority of the founding Americans were Christian. To try and say this did not have an effect on the establishment of America and on writing the Constitution would be incorrect.

Well, you makd some valid points such as Christianity has had a great positive influence over all of America. No one is doubting that. Christianity is not the question.
The US Constitution is the law that the founders BASED THIS COUNTRY ON.
The Constituion, specifically the seperation of powers, was adopted from the Greek Constitution.
The Greeks at that time were not Christian.
The problem that I see here is a complete failure of the religous right TO ADMIT that it is the US Constitution THAT THIS COUNTRY IS FOUNDED ON.
Never was religion. Hint: Christianity is a religion.
We are a nation of LAWS, not men and their Gods and religion.
Now admit it and get over it. You will feel better.
The United States of America was founded on LAWS.

As I said, Christianity obviously influenced the writing of the Constitution, which was my main point. While I agree on most of what you have said I would like to clarify what this country was founded versus built upon, at the risk of getting somewhat off topic. Yes, this country was founded on the Constitution, I have no problem admitting this. However, I think the story of America’s success goes further than this. It was the actions of many individuals which actually BUILT (vs founded) the country.

The Constitution gave the freedom for individuals to take their own actions towards a better society, so it provided the means for it. The majority of Americans at the time were taught or strived to follow Christian teachings. I think a large part of what BUILT America was through personal sacrifices, individuals helping other individuals, etc. In other words, it was much of the Christian teachings, beliefs and influences of the time which helped BUILD the country.

Comparing this to today, we still have the Constitution, yet there are many less willing to sacrifice or help each other and take those individual actions which create a better society. It seems to me that we are continuing down the path of being more “forced” into a better society, rather than from our own individual free will. At least that is my perception and it is what I believe is making us a “less great” nation.

 

[rikules]

It's founded on Christian VALUES you nincompoop.

Nobody except the idiot left has ever said it was founded on the Christian religion.

"It's founded on Christian VALUES you nincompoop"

it was PARTLY founded on christian values


MOST of those (christian values) were values that christian stole from the greeks and hammurabi.

I must ask....is insulting people and calling them names a christian value?

--------------------------

"Nobody except the idiot left has ever said it was founded on the Christian religion"

no you are showing (once again) just how ill-informed you truly are....

LOTS of evangelical christians have said that America was founded on the christan religion...

 

[rightwinger]

The answer regarding whether the US was founded upon Christianity is I believe more complex than the OP has stated. Were many of the original settlers Christians? Yes. Was American culture strongly influenced by Christianity? Yes. Was the original intent of the Constitution to establish Christianity in America? No.

I think the founders did have Judeo-Christian principles in mind when writing the Constitution. Historical writing shows the faith and belief of many of the founders and that they were very much influenced by their Christian beliefs. I also think that many of the quotes found which seem to be a “slam” against Christianity are really an outward showing of distaste for the organized Christian religions of the time and the hypocrisy of not following Christian teachings.

In other words, many of those who professed to be Christian did not actually strive to follow Christian teachings. I view some of our founders as wanting to change this and for people to return to actually following Christian teachings. Yes, there were deists among the founders, however, I think the lack of Christians striving to follow Christian teachings may have precipitated some to be disenfranchised with organized religion and "created" these deists.

Regardless, it is clear to me that our country would be much different without the influence of Christianity through the country’s individual Christians. There are too many who try to diminish the positive effect Christianity has had on America, including the framing of the Constitution. In the end, each country is built by the individuals that occupy it and the majority of the founding Americans were Christian. To try and say this did not have an effect on the establishment of America and on writing the Constitution would be incorrect.

Well, you makd some valid points such as Christianity has had a great positive influence over all of America. No one is doubting that. Christianity is not the question.
The US Constitution is the law that the founders BASED THIS COUNTRY ON.
The Constituion, specifically the seperation of powers, was adopted from the Greek Constitution.
The Greeks at that time were not Christian.
The problem that I see here is a complete failure of the religous right TO ADMIT that it is the US Constitution THAT THIS COUNTRY IS FOUNDED ON.
Never was religion. Hint: Christianity is a religion.
We are a nation of LAWS, not men and their Gods and religion.
Now admit it and get over it. You will feel better.
The United States of America was founded on LAWS.

As I said, Christianity obviously influenced the writing of the Constitution, which was my main point. While I agree on most of what you have said I would like to clarify what this country was founded versus built upon, at the risk of getting somewhat off topic. Yes, this country was founded on the Constitution, I have no problem admitting this. However, I think the story of America’s success goes further than this. It was the actions of many individuals which actually BUILT (vs founded) the country.

The Constitution gave the freedom for individuals to take their own actions towards a better society, so it provided the means for it. The majority of Americans at the time were taught or strived to follow Christian teachings. I think a large part of what BUILT America was through personal sacrifices, individuals helping other individuals, etc. In other words, it was much of the Christian teachings, beliefs and influences of the time which helped BUILD the country.

Comparing this to today, we still have the Constitution, yet there are many less willing to sacrifice or help each other and take those individual actions which create a better society. It seems to me that we are continuing down the path of being more “forced” into a better society, rather than from our own individual free will. At least that is my perception and it is what I believe is making us a “less great” nation.

As I said, Christianity obviously influenced the writing of the Constitution, which was my main point. While I agree on most of what you have said I would like to clarify what this country was founded versus built upon

Could you point out which portions of the Constitition are Christian influenced?
The Preamble?
The Legislative Branch?
The Executive Branch?
The Judicial Branch?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This is a Christmastime letter to liberals.....but still it's appropriate here because it addresses the anti-Christian sentiment that liberals typically voice in their thousands of threads like this one...

Merry Christmas. If that offends you, why should I care? It’s your problem, not mine. Let me explain your problem a little more fully. America is a Christian country. It’s your job to deal with that, because you’re not going to change this fact. America has always been a Christian country, and - open wide now, because you’re going to have to swallow this - it will continue to be.

It will continue to be because most Americans aren’t Euroweenies. They haven’t lost the moral courage to be proud of their country and their civilization. Notice the “most” - which you are not a part of.

You are anti-Christian because you are anti-American. You are anti-American because you are anti-Western Civilization. You are anti-Western Civilization because you are afraid of and intimidated by the envy of the world’s impotent. Fear of being envied defines your soul.

Try this thought experiment. Try and pretend that you are deep down in your bones proud to be an American. Try and cast aside all the embarrassment you feel, the need to apologize for being American. You feel fear, don’t you? What makes you afraid to be proud of your country? Envious evil eyes, that’s what.

It’s that fear that drives you to ask, “Why do they hate us?” The dreaded They out there in the world who hate America, the dreaded They whose envy makes you incapable of defending your country and your culture against them.

Another thought experiment: Place in your mind’s eye the entire panorama of Western Civilization - of ancient Greece and Rome, of medieval knighthood and Christendom, of the Renaissance, the age of exploration and scientific discovery, the Industrial Revolution, the creation of mass prosperity.

Now try and pretend that it is thrilling to be a part of and heir to this history, that you look upon Western Civilization as glorious and superior to any other, that you admire it without apology.

Are you cringing? You feel guilt, don’t you? You have a compulsion to focus exclusively on the negative, right? When you thought of Greece and Rome, you thought, “They had slaves.” You immediately translate Medieval Christendom into Dark Ages and sneer at the Crusaders.

The Renaissance makes you think of the Inquisition. The Age of Exploration reminds you of what an “exploiter” Columbus was, and how much you sympathize with Aztec cannibals over the Christian Cortez. And American history - why that’s just slavery, slaughter of Indians, and capitalist rip-offs.

So now you take out your fear and guilt on the spiritual source of our civilization. Well, thank you for sharing. For 2,000 years, Christianity has been woven into the warp and woof of Western Civilization. You can’t pull it out and not expect the whole tapestry to unravel - as the Euroweenies are finding out.

Christianity is an inseparable part of the culture of our civilization. Even atheists must be cultural Christians and feel comfortable with their culture’s Christian heritage if they wish not to be estranged from their civilization and its history.

This is why your war on Christmas, your war on the Boy Scouts, your war on any mention of Christianity in schools, your war on public displays of Christianity has nothing to do with religion: these are cultural wars, not religious wars.

You know very well that your worry about Christians establishing an oppressive theocracy in America is a complete sham. After all, it was American Christians taking seriously Jesus’ proclamation to “Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and unto God’s what is God’s” that enables America to have a secular government and no state religion.

But here is what you should worry about: more and more of us are figuring out that there is no moral obligation to obey your immoral laws. There is going to be an ever-increasing amount of straight defiance of judges’ anti-Christian pro-ACLU rulings.

Civil disobedience has a long and venerable history in this country. Christian civil disobedience is going to become a major social movement in America, with refusal to obey pro-ACLU edicts more and more widespread.

You want respect for the law? Then don’t pervert it to advance your anti-Christian agenda. Don’t pervert it to assuage your fear of envy and guilt over being an American. Respect has to be earned. You and your judges need to earn it back.

cont.
To The Point News - A CHRISTMAS LETTER ADDRESSED TO ANTI-CHRISTIANS

 

[bodecea]

This is a Christmastime letter to liberals.....but still it's appropriate here because it addresses the anti-Christian sentiment that liberals typically voice in their thousands of threads like this one...

Merry Christmas. If that offends you, why should I care? It’s your problem, not mine. Let me explain your problem a little more fully. America is a Christian country. It’s your job to deal with that, because you’re not going to change this fact. America has always been a Christian country, and - open wide now, because you’re going to have to swallow this - it will continue to be.

It will continue to be because most Americans aren’t Euroweenies. They haven’t lost the moral courage to be proud of their country and their civilization. Notice the “most” - which you are not a part of.

You are anti-Christian because you are anti-American. You are anti-American because you are anti-Western Civilization. You are anti-Western Civilization because you are afraid of and intimidated by the envy of the world’s impotent. Fear of being envied defines your soul.

Try this thought experiment. Try and pretend that you are deep down in your bones proud to be an American. Try and cast aside all the embarrassment you feel, the need to apologize for being American. You feel fear, don’t you? What makes you afraid to be proud of your country? Envious evil eyes, that’s what.

It’s that fear that drives you to ask, “Why do they hate us?” The dreaded They out there in the world who hate America, the dreaded They whose envy makes you incapable of defending your country and your culture against them.

Another thought experiment: Place in your mind’s eye the entire panorama of Western Civilization - of ancient Greece and Rome, of medieval knighthood and Christendom, of the Renaissance, the age of exploration and scientific discovery, the Industrial Revolution, the creation of mass prosperity.

Now try and pretend that it is thrilling to be a part of and heir to this history, that you look upon Western Civilization as glorious and superior to any other, that you admire it without apology.

Are you cringing? You feel guilt, don’t you? You have a compulsion to focus exclusively on the negative, right? When you thought of Greece and Rome, you thought, “They had slaves.” You immediately translate Medieval Christendom into Dark Ages and sneer at the Crusaders.

The Renaissance makes you think of the Inquisition. The Age of Exploration reminds you of what an “exploiter” Columbus was, and how much you sympathize with Aztec cannibals over the Christian Cortez. And American history - why that’s just slavery, slaughter of Indians, and capitalist rip-offs.

So now you take out your fear and guilt on the spiritual source of our civilization. Well, thank you for sharing. For 2,000 years, Christianity has been woven into the warp and woof of Western Civilization. You can’t pull it out and not expect the whole tapestry to unravel - as the Euroweenies are finding out.

Christianity is an inseparable part of the culture of our civilization. Even atheists must be cultural Christians and feel comfortable with their culture’s Christian heritage if they wish not to be estranged from their civilization and its history.

This is why your war on Christmas, your war on the Boy Scouts, your war on any mention of Christianity in schools, your war on public displays of Christianity has nothing to do with religion: these are cultural wars, not religious wars.

You know very well that your worry about Christians establishing an oppressive theocracy in America is a complete sham. After all, it was American Christians taking seriously Jesus’ proclamation to “Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and unto God’s what is God’s” that enables America to have a secular government and no state religion.

But here is what you should worry about: more and more of us are figuring out that there is no moral obligation to obey your immoral laws. There is going to be an ever-increasing amount of straight defiance of judges’ anti-Christian pro-ACLU rulings.

Civil disobedience has a long and venerable history in this country. Christian civil disobedience is going to become a major social movement in America, with refusal to obey pro-ACLU edicts more and more widespread.

You want respect for the law? Then don’t pervert it to advance your anti-Christian agenda. Don’t pervert it to assuage your fear of envy and guilt over being an American. Respect has to be earned. You and your judges need to earn it back.

cont.
To The Point News - A CHRISTMAS LETTER ADDRESSED TO ANTI-CHRISTIANS

By stating the FACT that this Country is not based on Christianity, how is that being anti-Christian? Who has advocated getting rid of Christianity and Christians in this country? Please name them and link their posts from those thousands of threads you refer to.

 

[AllieBaba]

It's founded on Christian VALUES you nincompoop.

Nobody except the idiot left has ever said it was founded on the Christian religion.

"It's founded on Christian VALUES you nincompoop"

it was PARTLY founded on christian values


MOST of those (christian values) were values that christian stole from the greeks and hammurabi.

I must ask....is insulting people and calling them names a christian value?

--------------------------

"Nobody except the idiot left has ever said it was founded on the Christian religion"

no you are showing (once again) just how ill-informed you truly are....

LOTS of evangelical christians have said that America was founded on the christan religion...

Really? LOTS? Of evangelical Christians?


Lol. Can't get much more vague than that. Link, please. Numbers. Names.
And whether or not it's a Christian act to call names is for another thread.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This is a Christmastime letter to liberals.....but still it's appropriate here because it addresses the anti-Christian sentiment that liberals typically voice in their thousands of threads like this one...

Merry Christmas. If that offends you, why should I care? It’s your problem, not mine. Let me explain your problem a little more fully. America is a Christian country. It’s your job to deal with that, because you’re not going to change this fact. America has always been a Christian country, and - open wide now, because you’re going to have to swallow this - it will continue to be.

It will continue to be because most Americans aren’t Euroweenies. They haven’t lost the moral courage to be proud of their country and their civilization. Notice the “most” - which you are not a part of.

You are anti-Christian because you are anti-American. You are anti-American because you are anti-Western Civilization. You are anti-Western Civilization because you are afraid of and intimidated by the envy of the world’s impotent. Fear of being envied defines your soul.

Try this thought experiment. Try and pretend that you are deep down in your bones proud to be an American. Try and cast aside all the embarrassment you feel, the need to apologize for being American. You feel fear, don’t you? What makes you afraid to be proud of your country? Envious evil eyes, that’s what.

It’s that fear that drives you to ask, “Why do they hate us?” The dreaded They out there in the world who hate America, the dreaded They whose envy makes you incapable of defending your country and your culture against them.

Another thought experiment: Place in your mind’s eye the entire panorama of Western Civilization - of ancient Greece and Rome, of medieval knighthood and Christendom, of the Renaissance, the age of exploration and scientific discovery, the Industrial Revolution, the creation of mass prosperity.

Now try and pretend that it is thrilling to be a part of and heir to this history, that you look upon Western Civilization as glorious and superior to any other, that you admire it without apology.

Are you cringing? You feel guilt, don’t you? You have a compulsion to focus exclusively on the negative, right? When you thought of Greece and Rome, you thought, “They had slaves.” You immediately translate Medieval Christendom into Dark Ages and sneer at the Crusaders.

The Renaissance makes you think of the Inquisition. The Age of Exploration reminds you of what an “exploiter” Columbus was, and how much you sympathize with Aztec cannibals over the Christian Cortez. And American history - why that’s just slavery, slaughter of Indians, and capitalist rip-offs.

So now you take out your fear and guilt on the spiritual source of our civilization. Well, thank you for sharing. For 2,000 years, Christianity has been woven into the warp and woof of Western Civilization. You can’t pull it out and not expect the whole tapestry to unravel - as the Euroweenies are finding out.

Christianity is an inseparable part of the culture of our civilization. Even atheists must be cultural Christians and feel comfortable with their culture’s Christian heritage if they wish not to be estranged from their civilization and its history.

This is why your war on Christmas, your war on the Boy Scouts, your war on any mention of Christianity in schools, your war on public displays of Christianity has nothing to do with religion: these are cultural wars, not religious wars.

You know very well that your worry about Christians establishing an oppressive theocracy in America is a complete sham. After all, it was American Christians taking seriously Jesus’ proclamation to “Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and unto God’s what is God’s” that enables America to have a secular government and no state religion.

But here is what you should worry about: more and more of us are figuring out that there is no moral obligation to obey your immoral laws. There is going to be an ever-increasing amount of straight defiance of judges’ anti-Christian pro-ACLU rulings.

Civil disobedience has a long and venerable history in this country. Christian civil disobedience is going to become a major social movement in America, with refusal to obey pro-ACLU edicts more and more widespread.

You want respect for the law? Then don’t pervert it to advance your anti-Christian agenda. Don’t pervert it to assuage your fear of envy and guilt over being an American. Respect has to be earned. You and your judges need to earn it back.

cont.
To The Point News - A CHRISTMAS LETTER ADDRESSED TO ANTI-CHRISTIANS

By stating the FACT that this Country is not based on Christianity, how is that being anti-Christian? Who has advocated getting rid of Christianity and Christians in this country? Please name them and link their posts from those thousands of threads you refer to.

Spoken like a typical Euroweenie.....and if you are not aware of the constant leftist attack on Christianity...you are just not aware...

And the FACT IS... this country DOES have its roots based in Christianity.....here are some examples....

Listed below are a few principles or ideals to which the Founders adhered. Given immediately following each one are passages showing Judeo-Christian roots of that principle and then passages reflecting the use of the principle in America's founding documents. This list is by no means meant to be exhaustive, but only to exemplify the concept that America's Founding ideals have their roots in Judeo-Christian tradition. It should not be surprising that the Bible is quoted often as the source of the Founders' thinking for studies have shown the Bible is by far the most often quoted source in all of the publications and speeches of the founding era.

Principle: Reliance on the Providence of God

Judeo-Christian Roots

"For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee. O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children. In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. (Isaiah 54:10 - 17)

American Founding Ideal:

"We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name, and by authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent states; .. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor." (Declaration of Independence. See also John Eidsmoe, Christianity and the Constitution, Baker Book House, Grand Rapids, MI, 1987, pp. 355-377)

Principle: Law of God forms basis of good human laws

Judeo-Christian Roots

"The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. (Psalms 19:7 - 8)

American Founding Ideal:

"Suppose a nation in some distant region should take the Bible for their only law book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." John Adams, February 22, 1756 (Federer, William J., America's God and Country Encyclopedia Of Quotations , FAME Publishing, Coppell, Texas, 1994, p.5)

"These laws laid down by God are the eternal immutable laws of good and evil .... This law of nature dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity if contrary to this...

"The doctrines thus delivered we call the revealed or divine law, and they are to be found only in the holy scriptures ... [and] are found upon comparison to be really part of the original law of nature. Upon these two foundations, the law of nature and the law of revelation, depend all human laws; that is to say, no human laws should be suffered to contradict these. William Blackstone (Federer, p.52)

Principle: Religion and Morality form basis of Liberty

Judeo-Christian Roots

"Proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof." (Leviticus 25:10)

"Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbor: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the Lord." (Jeremiah 34:17)

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:14)

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (John 8:32)

American Founding Ideal:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams (Federer, p. 10)

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible" George Washington (Federer, p.660)

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.... And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion ... Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail to the exclusion of religious principle." George Washington's Farewell Address

Principle: The Equality of Man

Judeo-Christian Roots

"Hear the causes between your brethren, and judge righteously between every man and his brother, and the stranger that is with him. Ye shall not respect [discriminate against] persons in judgment; but ye shall hear the small as well as the great; ye shall not be afraid of the face of man; for the judgment is God's: and the cause that is too hard for you, bring it unto me, and I will hear it." (Deuteronomy 1:16-17)

"Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect [discriminate against] the person of the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbor." (Leviticus 19:15)

"God is no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34)

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)

American Founding Ideal:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal." Declaration of Independence

"No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States" U.S. Constitution, Art. I, Sec. 9, Paragraph 8)

Principle: God-Given Human Rights

Judeo-Christian Roots

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Genesis 1:27 - 28)

"Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not commit adultery. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Thou shalt not covet.. (Exodus 20:13-17)

American Founding Ideal:

".that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." (Declaration of Independence)

Principle: Government authority by Consent of the Governed

Judeo-Christian Roots

"Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment." (Deuteronomy 16:18)

"Take you wise men, and understanding, and known among your tribes, and I will make them rulers over you.. So I took the chief of your tribes, wise men, and known, and made them heads over you, captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, and captains over fifties, and captains over tens, and officers among your tribes." (Deuteronomy 1:13 - 15)

American Founding Ideal:

".governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." (Declaration of Independence)

"The United States shall guarantee to every state in this Union a republican form of government" (U.S Constitution, Art. IV, Section 4)

Principle: Sanctity of Contract

Judeo-Christian Roots

"If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth." (Numbers 30:2)

American Founding Ideal:

"No state shall.pass any. law impairing the obligation of contracts." (U.S Constitution, Art. I, Section 10, Paragraph 1)

Principle: Separation of Church and State

Judeo-Christian Roots

"Render therefore unto Cæsar the things which be Cæsar's, and unto God the things which be God's." (Luke 20:25)

American Founding Ideal:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. (First Amendment, U.S. Constitution)


more at
Judeo-Christian Roots of America's Founding Ideals and Documents

 

[Gadawg73]

This is a Christmastime letter to liberals.....but still it's appropriate here because it addresses the anti-Christian sentiment that liberals typically voice in their thousands of threads like this one...

Merry Christmas. If that offends you, why should I care? It’s your problem, not mine. Let me explain your problem a little more fully. America is a Christian country. It’s your job to deal with that, because you’re not going to change this fact. America has always been a Christian country, and - open wide now, because you’re going to have to swallow this - it will continue to be.

It will continue to be because most Americans aren’t Euroweenies. They haven’t lost the moral courage to be proud of their country and their civilization. Notice the “most” - which you are not a part of.

You are anti-Christian because you are anti-American. You are anti-American because you are anti-Western Civilization. You are anti-Western Civilization because you are afraid of and intimidated by the envy of the world’s impotent. Fear of being envied defines your soul.

Try this thought experiment. Try and pretend that you are deep down in your bones proud to be an American. Try and cast aside all the embarrassment you feel, the need to apologize for being American. You feel fear, don’t you? What makes you afraid to be proud of your country? Envious evil eyes, that’s what.

It’s that fear that drives you to ask, “Why do they hate us?” The dreaded They out there in the world who hate America, the dreaded They whose envy makes you incapable of defending your country and your culture against them.

Another thought experiment: Place in your mind’s eye the entire panorama of Western Civilization - of ancient Greece and Rome, of medieval knighthood and Christendom, of the Renaissance, the age of exploration and scientific discovery, the Industrial Revolution, the creation of mass prosperity.

Now try and pretend that it is thrilling to be a part of and heir to this history, that you look upon Western Civilization as glorious and superior to any other, that you admire it without apology.

Are you cringing? You feel guilt, don’t you? You have a compulsion to focus exclusively on the negative, right? When you thought of Greece and Rome, you thought, “They had slaves.” You immediately translate Medieval Christendom into Dark Ages and sneer at the Crusaders.

The Renaissance makes you think of the Inquisition. The Age of Exploration reminds you of what an “exploiter” Columbus was, and how much you sympathize with Aztec cannibals over the Christian Cortez. And American history - why that’s just slavery, slaughter of Indians, and capitalist rip-offs.

So now you take out your fear and guilt on the spiritual source of our civilization. Well, thank you for sharing. For 2,000 years, Christianity has been woven into the warp and woof of Western Civilization. You can’t pull it out and not expect the whole tapestry to unravel - as the Euroweenies are finding out.

Christianity is an inseparable part of the culture of our civilization. Even atheists must be cultural Christians and feel comfortable with their culture’s Christian heritage if they wish not to be estranged from their civilization and its history.

This is why your war on Christmas, your war on the Boy Scouts, your war on any mention of Christianity in schools, your war on public displays of Christianity has nothing to do with religion: these are cultural wars, not religious wars.

You know very well that your worry about Christians establishing an oppressive theocracy in America is a complete sham. After all, it was American Christians taking seriously Jesus’ proclamation to “Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and unto God’s what is God’s” that enables America to have a secular government and no state religion.

But here is what you should worry about: more and more of us are figuring out that there is no moral obligation to obey your immoral laws. There is going to be an ever-increasing amount of straight defiance of judges’ anti-Christian pro-ACLU rulings.

Civil disobedience has a long and venerable history in this country. Christian civil disobedience is going to become a major social movement in America, with refusal to obey pro-ACLU edicts more and more widespread.

You want respect for the law? Then don’t pervert it to advance your anti-Christian agenda. Don’t pervert it to assuage your fear of envy and guilt over being an American. Respect has to be earned. You and your judges need to earn it back.

cont.
To The Point News - A CHRISTMAS LETTER ADDRESSED TO ANTI-CHRISTIANS

I am no liberal. Additionally, I am a Christian and a proud American.
Respect is earned no matter what your religion is or lack of.
Remember that.
I fell off my dinosaur the first time I heard that one about "You are a liberal" if someone had a different view than what they learn in Sunday school.
My argument is from a conservative view point.

 

[Father Time]

Merry Christmas. If that offends you, why should I care? It’s your problem, not mine. Let me explain your problem a little more fully. America is a Christian country.

Which has a secular government

America has always been a Christian country, and - open wide now, because you’re going to have to swallow this - it will continue to be.

Atheism is on the rise in every state so who knows how long it will stay that way.

See how U.S. religious landscape has changed in nearly 2 decades - USATODAY.com

It will continue to be because most Americans aren’t Euroweenies. They haven’t lost the moral courage to be proud of their country and their civilization. Notice the “most” - which you are not a part of.

Go fuck yourself you elitist puke stain. Are you so desperate that the most you can do is hurl petty insults and try to pump yourself up as holier than though?

You are anti-Christian because you are anti-American.

I'll take that as yes.

Speaking of which I'm allowed to be as Anti-Christian as I please (as long as I don't discriminate or try to stop people from practicing Christianity). Trying to make it so that I can't is truly anti-American.

You see we have these things called free speech, freedom of religion and freedom to think as we please. I know that means I get to break some of the 10 commandments but you're going to have to deal with that.

You are anti-American because you are anti-Western Civilization.

Western Civilization started before Christianity and there's more to it than Christianity.

Try this thought experiment. Try and pretend that you are deep down in your bones proud to be an American. Try and cast aside all the embarrassment you feel, the need to apologize for being American. You feel fear, don’t you? What makes you afraid to be proud of your country? Envious evil eyes, that’s what.

What makes you think you can read minds?

My guess is arrogance, self-delusion and/or monumental stupidity.

It’s that fear that drives you to ask, “Why do they hate us?” The dreaded They out there in the world who hate America, the dreaded They whose envy makes you incapable of defending your country and your culture against them.

I would laugh if you ever get beaten up by an atheist in the army for your desperate attempts to deny they exist.

Another thought experiment: Place in your mind’s eye the entire panorama of Western Civilization - of ancient Greece and Rome,

Which flourished without Christianity.

of medieval knighthood and Christendom, of the Renaissance, the age of exploration and scientific discovery, the Industrial Revolution, the creation of mass prosperity.

Now try and pretend that it is thrilling to be a part of and heir to this history,

Try to imagine that Christianity isn't responsible for all of this, that Europe and western civilization accomplished great things without it. Welcome to reality.

that you look upon Western Civilization as glorious and superior to any other, that you admire it without apology.

Are you cringing? You feel guilt, don’t you? You have a compulsion to focus exclusively on the negative, right? When you thought of Greece and Rome, you thought, “They had slaves.”

Again with the mind reading, either prove you have psychic powers or shut the fuck up.

So now you take out your fear and guilt on the spiritual source of our civilization. Well, thank you for sharing. For 2,000 years, Christianity has been woven into the warp and woof of Western Civilization.

Western Civilization started with polytheism you idiot. It started before Christianity.

You can’t pull it out and not expect the whole tapestry to unravel - as the Euroweenies are finding out.

Oh so I get it you hate western civilization if Christianity isn't in it.

This is why your war on Christmas,

There is no war on Christmas, there's an attempt to not have tax money used to fund Christianity.

your war on the Boy Scouts,

Yes how dare we fight an organization that discriminates.

your war on any mention of Christianity in schools,

There is no such war you just want to pretend there is one because I guess being persecuted makes you feel special.

your war on public displays of Christianity has nothing to do with religion

Your right it has everything to do with separation of church and state. Of following the first amendment and not using tax money to fund religions.

You know very well that your worry about Christians establishing an oppressive theocracy in America is a complete sham.

Again stop pretending to be a mind reader. You do not have powers you are not special in that way get over yourself.

After all, it was American Christians taking seriously Jesus’ proclamation to “Render unto Caesar’s what is Caesar’s and unto God’s what is God’s” that enables America to have a secular government and no state religion.

If that's true then why in all holy hell are you complaining about it?

But here is what you should worry about: more and more of us are figuring out that there is no moral obligation to obey your immoral laws. There is going to be an ever-increasing amount of straight defiance of judges’ anti-Christian pro-ACLU rulings.

And they'll have criminal charges brought against them for disobeying a court order. Simple as that.

Civil disobedience has a long and venerable history in this country. Christian civil disobedience is going to become a major social movement in America, with refusal to obey pro-ACLU edicts more and more widespread.

See above.

You want respect for the law? Then don’t pervert it to advance your anti-Christian agenda. Don’t pervert it to assuage your fear of envy and guilt over being an American. Respect has to be earned. You and your judges need to earn it back.

You want respect? How about assholes like you who lie through their teeth? How about people who want to pretend stopping taxpayer funded endorsement of Christianity(like say In God we Trust)is somehow an attack on the religion .

How about twisting logic and reality to try to get victim status so you can continue to moan and bitch about being persecuted all the while continuing to try to get government funding. How about pretending that no school sponsored prayer = no prayer in school at all? All you do is overinflate every attack on your free government handouts to an attack on the religion itself and then you pretend you have the moral high ground.

You deserve as much respect as a parasite because that's all you are.

 

[AllieBaba]

We do NOT have a secular government.

Another incorrect premise propagated by the progressives.

We have NEVER had a secular government. That's why we use THE BIBLE when judges, congressmen, police, the PRESIDENT are sworn in.

None of the rest of your rambling diatribe matters, because it comes down to that.

 

[Intense]

The commonwealth seems to me to be a society of men constituted only for the procuring, preserving, and advancing their own civil interests.

[COLOR="Red"[COLOR="Red"]]Civil interests I call life, liberty, health, and indolency of body; and the possession of outward things, such as money, lands, houses, furniture, and the like.[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
It is the duty of the civil magistrate, by the impartial execution of equal laws, to secure unto all the people in general and to every one of his subjects in particular the just possession of these things belonging to this life. If anyone presume to violate the laws of public justice and equity, established for the preservation of those things, his presumption is to be checked by the fear of punishment, consisting of the deprivation or diminution of those civil interests, or goods, which otherwise he might and ought to enjoy. But seeing no man does willingly suffer himself to be punished by the deprivation of any part of his goods, and much less of his liberty or life, therefore, is the magistrate armed with the force and strength of all his subjects, in order to the punishment of those that violate any other man's rights.

Now that the whole jurisdiction of the magistrate reaches only to these civil concernments, and that all civil power, right and dominion, is bounded and confined to the only care of promoting these things; and that it neither can nor ought in any manner to be extended to the salvation of souls, these following considerations seem unto me abundantly to demonstrate.

First, because the care of souls is not committed to the civil magistrate, any more than to other men. It is not committed unto him, I say, by God; because it appears not that God has ever given any such authority to one man over another as to compel anyone to his religion. Nor can any such power be vested in the magistrate by the consent of the people, because no man can so far abandon the care of his own salvation as blindly to leave to the choice of any other, whether prince or subject, to prescribe to him what faith or worship he shall embrace. For no man can, if he would, conform his faith to the dictates of another. All the life and power of true religion consist in the inward and full persuasion of the mind; and faith is not faith without believing. Whatever profession we make, to whatever outward worship we conform, if we are not fully satisfied in our own mind that the one is true and the other well pleasing unto God, such profession and such practice, far from being any furtherance, are indeed great obstacles to our salvation. For in this manner, instead of expiating other sins by the exercise of religion, I say, in offering thus unto God Almighty such a worship as we esteem to be displeasing unto Him, we add unto the number of our other sins those also of hypocrisy and contempt of His Divine Majesty.

In the second place, the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate, because his power consists only in outward force; but true and saving religion consists in the inward persuasion of the mind, without which nothing can be acceptable to God. And such is the nature of the understanding, that it cannot be compelled to the belief of anything by outward force. Confiscation of estate, imprisonment, torments, nothing of that nature can have any such efficacy as to make men change the inward judgement that they have framed of things.

It may indeed be alleged that the magistrate may make use of arguments, and, thereby; draw the heterodox into the way of truth, and procure their salvation. I grant it; but this is common to him with other men. In teaching, instructing, and redressing the erroneous by reason, he may certainly do what becomes any good man to do. Magistracy does not oblige him to put off either humanity or Christianity; but it is one thing to persuade, another to command; one thing to press with arguments, another with penalties. This civil power alone has a right to do; to the other, goodwill is authority enough. Every man has commission to admonish, exhort, convince another of error, and, by reasoning, to draw him into truth; but to give laws, receive obedience, and compel with the sword, belongs to none but the magistrate.

John Locke: A Letter Concerning Toleration

 

[Alpha1]

Sorry, but you are WRONG. Our Founders went out of their way to insure we had a secular government not tied to any religion including and especially Christianity in all its forms.

What you say is true but has NOTHING to do with what ConHog is saying....

The morality of our nation comes from a Judea/Christian background.
This is undeniable fact....

AND

Our Founders went out of their way to insure we had a secular government not tied to any religion.
Again, undeniable fact...

Neither statement is incompatible with the other...

Exactly what is "morality of a nation"?
Where is that?

The "morality of a nation" is expressed in its body of laws and how those laws are administered by the elected government.....
By how the citizens allow those laws to be administered....

One need only compare Shira law of Muslims to "Christian" of western nations....just about ALL of what we call the western nations are based on "Christian principles" and Christian values....as opposed to Asia and the Middle East and their body of law and values (morality) if you will....

 

[Christopher]

Well, you makd some valid points such as Christianity has had a great positive influence over all of America. No one is doubting that. Christianity is not the question.
The US Constitution is the law that the founders BASED THIS COUNTRY ON.
The Constituion, specifically the seperation of powers, was adopted from the Greek Constitution.
The Greeks at that time were not Christian.
The problem that I see here is a complete failure of the religous right TO ADMIT that it is the US Constitution THAT THIS COUNTRY IS FOUNDED ON.
Never was religion. Hint: Christianity is a religion.
We are a nation of LAWS, not men and their Gods and religion.
Now admit it and get over it. You will feel better.
The United States of America was founded on LAWS.

As I said, Christianity obviously influenced the writing of the Constitution, which was my main point. While I agree on most of what you have said I would like to clarify what this country was founded versus built upon, at the risk of getting somewhat off topic. Yes, this country was founded on the Constitution, I have no problem admitting this. However, I think the story of America’s success goes further than this. It was the actions of many individuals which actually BUILT (vs founded) the country.

The Constitution gave the freedom for individuals to take their own actions towards a better society, so it provided the means for it. The majority of Americans at the time were taught or strived to follow Christian teachings. I think a large part of what BUILT America was through personal sacrifices, individuals helping other individuals, etc. In other words, it was much of the Christian teachings, beliefs and influences of the time which helped BUILD the country.

Comparing this to today, we still have the Constitution, yet there are many less willing to sacrifice or help each other and take those individual actions which create a better society. It seems to me that we are continuing down the path of being more “forced” into a better society, rather than from our own individual free will. At least that is my perception and it is what I believe is making us a “less great” nation.

As I said, Christianity obviously influenced the writing of the Constitution, which was my main point. While I agree on most of what you have said I would like to clarify what this country was founded versus built upon

Could you point out which portions of the Constitition are Christian influenced?
The Preamble?
The Legislative Branch?
The Executive Branch?
The Judicial Branch?

Try reading this book, if you are honestly interested: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Christianity-Constitution-Faith-Founding-Fathers/dp/0801052319]Amazon.com: Christianity and the Constitution: The Faith of Our Founding Fathers (9780801052316): John Eidsmoe: Books[/ame]

I believe Eidsmoe is quite fair in his assessment of the the influence of Christianity in the Constitution.

 

[Political Junky]

Oh yeah, Mussolini was right. Corporations are really fascists and the world benefits when the gov't takes over.

Mussolini merged Corporations and Government. His Government didn't take over Corporations.
Thus his famous quote:

 

[Father Time]

We do NOT have a secular government.

Another incorrect premise propagated by the progressives.

We have NEVER had a secular government. That's why we use THE BIBLE when judges, congressmen, police, the PRESIDENT are sworn in.

None of the rest of your rambling diatribe matters, because it comes down to that.

Except they can choose not to use the Bible if they aren't Christian.

And we have a clause in the Constitution that says no religious test for public office.