The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[bodecea]

Don't befuddle her with facts!

Facts:

1. When asked way back when to provide some of the Christian Tenets our country was founded on, you have come up empty.

2. Neither the Declaration of Independence, nor the Constitution, nor the Bill of Rights refer to a CHRISTIAN God or to Christ.

3. The Treaty of Tripoli EXPRESSLY AND CLEARLY says we were NOT founded as a Christian nation and that treaty was unanimously approved by the Senate and signed by Pres. John Adams.

4. While there have been many speeches, letters, proclamations, comments provided on Founders talking about this nation being founded on Christian tenets....not ONE law, not ONE Supreme Court decision, not ONE Amendment does such a thing.

5. Actions speak louder than words.



Now...it's time for you to show me some of Your Christian Principles again.

 

[AllieBaba]

You're just a nutcase, Bod.

 

[AllieBaba]

BTW, each point of your last post is a lie.

Except for the weird "actions speak louder than words" thing. I'm not sure what that is, other than evidence of your idiocy.

 

[American Cowboy]

The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

Your correct...It was founded on Judeo Christian values...

Let's just take Moses.

If you go to the Supeme Court Building you will find Moses and the Ten Commandments carved into the stucture

Why is there a quote from Moses on the Liberty Bell?

"Proclaim Liberty Thro' All The Land To All The Inhabitants Thereof" Leviticus 25:10

Why was the original Seal of the United States, Moses crossing the Red Sea? It was designed by a committee lead by Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Ben Franklin

Moses can also be found in the House Chamber where the President gives his address

Actually the Moses on the supreme court building is only one of several lawgivers, some....gasp...pagan....and the #'s I-X refer to the Bill of Rights.


And if you want to go into art...some of my favorites are a) the painting in the rotunda of the Capital building of Washington AS a god and the Romaneque statue of him in the Smithsonian.

Well that certainly explains everything I have lists...Dumbass

Deny the truth all you want the evidence is overwhelming.

Thomas Jefferson auctually attended Church services every Sunday. The Church service was held on the Senate Floor. So much for your definition of "Seperation of Church and State"

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." -Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

 

[AllieBaba]

B-b-but....just because they SAID they were founding it upon Christian principle doesn't mean they really WERE...

What a nimrod she is.

 

[bodecea]

B-b-but....just because they SAID they were founding it upon Christian principle doesn't mean they really WERE...

What a nimrod she is.

Actions speak louder than words, my dear.

Why...for example. Just you saying you are a Christian doesn't mean you ARE.

Actions speak louder than words.....(it's not just a quaint idiom, you know)

 

[AllieBaba]

It is when you say it.

Over and over and over.

 

[bodecea]

Your correct...It was founded on Judeo Christian values...

Let's just take Moses.

If you go to the Supeme Court Building you will find Moses and the Ten Commandments carved into the stucture

Why is there a quote from Moses on the Liberty Bell?

"Proclaim Liberty Thro' All The Land To All The Inhabitants Thereof" Leviticus 25:10

Why was the original Seal of the United States, Moses crossing the Red Sea? It was designed by a committee lead by Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Ben Franklin

Moses can also be found in the House Chamber where the President gives his address

Actually the Moses on the supreme court building is only one of several lawgivers, some....gasp...pagan....and the #'s I-X refer to the Bill of Rights.


And if you want to go into art...some of my favorites are a) the painting in the rotunda of the Capital building of Washington AS a god and the Romaneque statue of him in the Smithsonian.

Well that certainly explains everything I have lists...Dumbass

Deny the truth all you want the evidence is overwhelming.

Thomas Jefferson auctually attended Church services every Sunday. The Church service was held on the Senate Floor. So much for your definition of "Seperation of Church and State"

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." -Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

I'm delighted that Jefferson went to church. No one said that most of the Founders weren't Christian....just that this Country was not founded on Christian principles.

Just like your comment isn't based on Christian principles either.

 

[AllieBaba]

Bod, I found a useful site for you:

http://www.urbandebate.org/pdf/Learningtodebate.pdf

 

[American Cowboy]

Actually the Moses on the supreme court building is only one of several lawgivers, some....gasp...pagan....and the #'s I-X refer to the Bill of Rights.


And if you want to go into art...some of my favorites are a) the painting in the rotunda of the Capital building of Washington AS a god and the Romaneque statue of him in the Smithsonian.

Well that certainly explains everything I have lists...Dumbass

Deny the truth all you want the evidence is overwhelming.

Thomas Jefferson auctually attended Church services every Sunday. The Church service was held on the Senate Floor. So much for your definition of "Seperation of Church and State"

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." -Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

I'm delighted that Jefferson went to church. No one said that most of the Founders weren't Christian....just that this Country was not founded on Christian principles.

Just like your comment isn't based on Christian principles either.

Sure it is. I forgive your stupidity.

 

[AllieBaba]

I provided a link to an informative and helpful pdf file on debate.

Sadly, this is the one that Bod uses.

This caught my eye:

"Cussing - Derogatory terms are very important and often decide the outcome of the debate.

Example: "Shut the fuck up, shitface."
Note: Make sure to use proper word placement: "Hey homo, I fucked your mother." is a very strong and stable argument. "Hey Mother, I fucked a homo." is not. "
How to Argue and Debate Properly.

I also liked this:
Affirmative argument

- The offensive position against an opponent.
1. argumentum ad hominem - Bring the opponent down. Use physical blemishes, odors, speech impediments, matriarchal figure, and any weakness you can disclose about them.

Example: "You only believe in pro-choice because you get pregnant every weekend, slutbag."
​

​

 

[bodecea]

Well that certainly explains everything I have lists...Dumbass

Deny the truth all you want the evidence is overwhelming.

Thomas Jefferson auctually attended Church services every Sunday. The Church service was held on the Senate Floor. So much for your definition of "Seperation of Church and State"

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." -Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

I'm delighted that Jefferson went to church. No one said that most of the Founders weren't Christian....just that this Country was not founded on Christian principles.

Just like your comment isn't based on Christian principles either.

Sure it is. I forgive your stupidity.

What an absolutely PERFECT example of what takes the place of Christianity these days.

 

[AllieBaba]

Logical fallacy.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Actions speak louder than words, my dear.

And your actions show you to be a nut case....

I'm just sayin.....

 

[bodecea]

Actions speak louder than words, my dear.

And your actions show you to be a nut case....

I'm just sayin.....

Yep...you're just saying....my point exactly. No actions, no proof...just sayin'

 

[AllieBaba]

Sigh.

 

[bodecea]

There's a bittersweet aspect to this entire topic.

On the one hand, it is SWEET that our Founders were so wise as to create the FIRST truely secular government in history not saddled with any of that religious claptrap even tho they themselves were mostly of the Christian persuasion.

The BITTER part, that so many here try to deny the beauty of what our Founders did and make them just like any other founders of countries, tied down by the religious superstitions of historical times.


I applaud our Founders for the wonderful thing they did DESPITE the christian baggage of over 1500 years.

 

[Gadawg73]

Your correct...It was founded on Judeo Christian values...

Let's just take Moses.

If you go to the Supeme Court Building you will find Moses and the Ten Commandments carved into the stucture

Why is there a quote from Moses on the Liberty Bell?

"Proclaim Liberty Thro' All The Land To All The Inhabitants Thereof" Leviticus 25:10

Why was the original Seal of the United States, Moses crossing the Red Sea? It was designed by a committee lead by Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and Ben Franklin

Moses can also be found in the House Chamber where the President gives his address

Actually the Moses on the supreme court building is only one of several lawgivers, some....gasp...pagan....and the #'s I-X refer to the Bill of Rights.


And if you want to go into art...some of my favorites are a) the painting in the rotunda of the Capital building of Washington AS a god and the Romaneque statue of him in the Smithsonian.

Well that certainly explains everything I have lists...Dumbass

Deny the truth all you want the evidence is overwhelming.

Thomas Jefferson auctually attended Church services every Sunday. The Church service was held on the Senate Floor. So much for your definition of "Seperation of Church and State"

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." -Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

You left out the fact that Jefferson ONLY attended church services WHEN he was President, not "every Sunday" as you claim.
And the only reason they were held in the House was because no local church was big enough to hold all the politicians seeking political gain from their show church attendance.
If you do not know what political pandering is then I will also explain that to you.
He did so to offset the attacks from his opponents, the Federalists, you know-there were politics in those days and the church attempted in insert their influence in any way, as usual because there are those that believe words instead of actions, the same as now as illustrated in this thread.
The absurdity of your claim and lack of any knowledge of history is that The Federalists attacked Jefferson at every chance they could.
For NOT being Christian like. They labeled him as an infidel and preachers and churches nationwide opposed Jefferson because of his non support of their causes.
A little history goes a long way in explaining things.
Jefferson opposed national prayer, was attacked by the religous right of those times and was an opponent of a national religion.

 

[bodecea]

Actually the Moses on the supreme court building is only one of several lawgivers, some....gasp...pagan....and the #'s I-X refer to the Bill of Rights.


And if you want to go into art...some of my favorites are a) the painting in the rotunda of the Capital building of Washington AS a god and the Romaneque statue of him in the Smithsonian.

Well that certainly explains everything I have lists...Dumbass

Deny the truth all you want the evidence is overwhelming.

Thomas Jefferson auctually attended Church services every Sunday. The Church service was held on the Senate Floor. So much for your definition of "Seperation of Church and State"

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God." -Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

You left out the fact that Jefferson ONLY attended church services WHEN he was President, not "every Sunday" as you claim.
And the only reason they were held in the House was because no local church was big enough to hold all the politicians seeking political gain from their show church attendance.
If you do not know what political pandering is then I will also explain that to you.
He did so to offset the attacks from his opponents, the Federalists, you know-there were politics in those days and the church attempted in insert their influence in any way, as usual because there are those that believe words instead of actions, the same as now as illustrated in this thread.
The absurdity of your claim and lack of any knowledge of history is that The Federalists attacked Jefferson at every chance they could.
For NOT being Christian like. They labeled him as an infidel and preachers and churches nationwide opposed Jefferson because of his non support of their causes.
A little history goes a long way in explaining things.
Jefferson opposed national prayer, was attacked by the religous right of those times and was an opponent of a national religion.

Certainly sounds familiar.....

Again, it's so sad for people today to try to deny the greatest thing about our Founders...that they did something NO OTHER COUNTRY had ever done. Created a new country with a new government free of the religious baggage all others had. Genius.

 

[AllieBaba]

Nice revision of history.

A little bit of truth thrown in to make it more palatable...I like that.