The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[Valerie]

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights.

The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

Has the entire history of mankind ever seen a Constitution such as ours?

Was the Constitution not created and inspired by predominantly religious men who by their Christian nature made a point of not designing an exclusive Christian nation?

No. There is no God in the Consitution. It's a complete fantasy to claim Christian responsibility for a secular document.

It's a complete fantasy to go back in time and try to historically remove those men from their own very nature which inspired them to create such a Constitution in the first place.

 

[froggy]

Actually he defined it as something different from orthodox Christianity. His words show he believed in following the tenants that Christ taught with his words “...in the only sense in which he (Jesus) wished us to be”. He was similar to many other Protestants who fought against religious practices they felt were not what Christ taught, such as Martin Luther. To me, it shows he was a good Christian to say such a thing.

To claim Jesus was not divine if the to throw away the entire premise of Christianity- that the LORD payed for your sins by sending his only begotten son, who was of himself (the concept of divinity multiplicity goes back to Genesis)to live a sinless life and pay what he owed Satan in accordance with the greatest bet ever made. This carries over into Revelation, where it is made clear to those familiar with Jewish property laws that the debt is payed, yet God has not yet claimed back the Earth, though it is his to rule and he holds the deed to creation, sealed with seven seals.

If Jesus was not divine, he cannot be sinless, since we are born imperfect and blighted by the stains of the world's fallen state (see: original sin and 'noone is without sin'). Hence he cannot pay the the price (the life of a sinless man) he payed upon the cross ('it is finished'). Hence salvation is not possible through Jesus- unless h was divine, starting with a clean slate upon his birth, and lived a sinless life.

NOT TRUE. there are several religions that claim to be Christian that do not view Christ as God, they view him as the Son of God, or as the messiah, but not God himself.....Unitarians, Mormons as 2 examples...

They're not true religions tho, they're manmade.

 

[Gadawg73]

there would be NO Constitution, without the Declaration of Independence....the two go hand in hand....

No.
The Declaration of Independence would be nothing but fodder unless the Founders wrote AND PASSED the US Constitution.
The Declaration of Independence is not law.
Have any of you taken the time to get off your butts and do any research? If you did you would find that EVERY SINGLE ONE of the religous ideas that were proposed to be included in the Constitution WERE VOTED DOWN.
And you still claim we are a nation founded on religion.
Do your homework.

Do your own.
Whether or not religion is in the consititution is NOT the question.

Define "founded". This country was "founded" with the Declaration of Independence.

It was FOUNDED on Christian principles. That does NOT mean we are a theocracy. Nobody has said that. That does NOT mean we don't have religious freedom, we certainly do (a nice Christian tenet). That does NOT mean we must adhere to certain religious ceremonies.

What it DOES mean is IT WAS FOUNDED ON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES. The founding fathers discussed religion and Christianity ad nauseum and we have those discussions. They FOUNDED the country on religious principles, but they ultimately decided for us to be free to worship as we please, we could not include religion in our constitution. Wise move. Doesn't change the fact that we are FOUNDED on and firmly rooted in Christianity.

When this country was founded the majority of it's citizens practiced Christianity and Christian principles.
Allie, you know that is not the same as the United States of America was founded on Christian principles.
When this country was founded Christian principles certainly influenced the Founders and in a positive way.
That also in no way means our GOVERNMENT was founded on Christian principles.
Where is an eye for an eye and the banning of BBQ pork sandwiches in the law? For that matter, where is that in every day life?
Just not true.

 

[Sky Dancer]

To claim Jesus was not divine if the to throw away the entire premise of Christianity- that the LORD payed for your sins by sending his only begotten son, who was of himself (the concept of divinity multiplicity goes back to Genesis)to live a sinless life and pay what he owed Satan in accordance with the greatest bet ever made. This carries over into Revelation, where it is made clear to those familiar with Jewish property laws that the debt is payed, yet God has not yet claimed back the Earth, though it is his to rule and he holds the deed to creation, sealed with seven seals.

If Jesus was not divine, he cannot be sinless, since we are born imperfect and blighted by the stains of the world's fallen state (see: original sin and 'noone is without sin'). Hence he cannot pay the the price (the life of a sinless man) he payed upon the cross ('it is finished'). Hence salvation is not possible through Jesus- unless h was divine, starting with a clean slate upon his birth, and lived a sinless life.

NOT TRUE. there are several religions that claim to be Christian that do not view Christ as God, they view him as the Son of God, or as the messiah, but not God himself.....Unitarians, Mormons as 2 examples...

They're not true religions tho, they're manmade.

And that is exactly the reason the Constitution is godless. Because folks like you make judgements of other peoples paths and decide who is and who isn't a 'true christian'. Iff we were a solely Christian nation these 'untrue' failths would be outlawed. We would be allowed only 'the one true faith' as defined by who?

Our country is founded by the will of the people not the will of God. That's why the Constitution starts "We the People"

 

[Sky Dancer]

Has the entire history of mankind ever seen a Constitution such as ours?

Was the Constitution not created and inspired by predominantly religious men who by their Christian nature made a point of not designing an exclusive Christian nation?

No. There is no God in the Consitution. It's a complete fantasy to claim Christian responsibility for a secular document.

It's a complete fantasy to go back in time and try to historically remove those men from their own very nature which inspired them to create such a Constitution in the first place.

Do you read their minds? What inspired them to keep God out of the Constitution? You can make up any fantasy you wish about the mental states of the signers of the Constitution but the one thing you can't claim is that God or Jesus is in the Consitution. Reason won.

 

[Valerie]

NOT TRUE. there are several religions that claim to be Christian that do not view Christ as God, they view him as the Son of God, or as the messiah, but not God himself.....Unitarians, Mormons as 2 examples...

They're not true religions tho, they're manmade.

And that is exactly the reason the Constitution is godless. Because folks like you make judgements of other peoples paths and if we were a solely Christian nation these failths would be outlawed. We woudl be allowed only 'the one true faith' as defined by who?

Nobody said we are a solely Christian nation or that Christianity was in the constitution but keep repeating the obvious and pretend you're saying anything new. ZZzzzz

 

[Sky Dancer]

They're not true religions tho, they're manmade.

And that is exactly the reason the Constitution is godless. Because folks like you make judgements of other peoples paths and if we were a solely Christian nation these failths would be outlawed. We woudl be allowed only 'the one true faith' as defined by who?

Nobody said we are a solely Christian nation or that Christianity was in the constitution but keep repeating the obvious and pretend you're saying anything new. ZZzzzz

You would like us to be a Christian nation. We're not. Render to Caesar the things that are Caesars and render to God the things that are God. We started this country by the will of the people, not the will of God.

 

[Valerie]

And that is exactly the reason the Constitution is godless. Because folks like you make judgements of other peoples paths and if we were a solely Christian nation these failths would be outlawed. We woudl be allowed only 'the one true faith' as defined by who?

Nobody said we are a solely Christian nation or that Christianity was in the constitution but keep repeating the obvious and pretend you're saying anything new. ZZzzzz

You would like us to be a Christian nation.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Nobody said we are a solely Christian nation or that Christianity was in the constitution but keep repeating the obvious and pretend you're saying anything new. ZZzzzz

You would like us to be a Christian nation.

Thanks for owning it.

 

[Valerie]

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[rikules]

They're not true religions tho, they're manmade.

And that is exactly the reason the Constitution is godless. Because folks like you make judgements of other peoples paths and if we were a solely Christian nation these failths would be outlawed. We woudl be allowed only 'the one true faith' as defined by who?

Nobody said we are a solely Christian nation or that Christianity was in the constitution but keep repeating the obvious and pretend you're saying anything new. ZZzzzz

:rollseyes in disgust and contempt for such obvious stupidity

LOTS of people are saying "America IS a christian nation"
and when they say it they mean "OUR brand of christianity (you know, the one TRUE brand) deserves SPECIAL RIGHTS. And OUR beliefs and morals should be the LAWS of the
LAND"

and LOTS of people INSIST that our constitution either;
a. IS a CHRISTIAN constitution
or
b. SPECIFIES god (the christian god...er...I mean...the evangelical protestant white conservative possibly republican but most likely "teabagging" god)

 

[Sky Dancer]

Skydancer the peaceful buddha has now declared herself my enemy!

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Reputation was given for this post.

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Here\'s a pos rep. Thanks for being such a great enemy.

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I offer an equal kind regard to enemies. If it was up to you I would not be able to practice my path. "First, they came for the Muslims. I didn't speak because I wasn't a Muslim."

 

[froggy]

You would like us to be a Christian nation.

Thanks for owning it.

When God was in this nation it was a greater country than it is now, America is going downhill more and more everyday.

 

[Sky Dancer]

And that is exactly the reason the Constitution is godless. Because folks like you make judgements of other peoples paths and if we were a solely Christian nation these failths would be outlawed. We woudl be allowed only 'the one true faith' as defined by who?

Nobody said we are a solely Christian nation or that Christianity was in the constitution but keep repeating the obvious and pretend you're saying anything new. ZZzzzz

:rollseyes in disgust and contempt for such obvious stupidity

LOTS of people are saying "America IS a christian nation"
and when they say it they mean "OUR brand of christianity (you know, the one TRUE brand) deserves SPECIAL RIGHTS. And OUR beliefs and morals should be the LAWS of the
LAND"

and LOTS of people INSIST that our constitution either;
a. IS a CHRISTIAN constitution
or
b. SPECIFIES god (the christian god...er...I mean...the evangelical protestant white conservative possibly republican but most likely "teabagging" god)

Some Christians think they are at war with those of us who point to the Constitution for the secular document that it is.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Thanks for owning it.

When God was in this nation it was a greater country than it is now, America is going downhill more and more everyday.

God was never in the Constitution, by design.

 

[rikules]

Read the Constitution. No God there. It's a secular document.

there would be NO Constitution, without the Declaration of Independence....the two go hand in hand....

Let's remember the Declaration of Independence was a separation from King George who was considered a divine king.

The whole intention of the Founders all along was no state religion. We were never designed to be a Christian nation, but a secular society with relgious freedom.

A freedom that some Christians seek to reverse. Coral Ridge Ministeries, Focus on the Family, Christian Coalition etc etc. Are you for them or against them?

"With all due respect to those dear people, my friend, God Almighty does not hear the prayer of a Jew." Bailey Smith

Yes, religion and politics do mix. America is a nation based on biblical principles. Christian values dominate our government. The test of those values is the Bible. Politicians who do not use the bible to guide their public and private lives do not belong in office."Beverly Lahaye. Concerned Women of America

"When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil." Gary Potter (Catholics for Christian Political Action)


"I don't think that witchcraft is a religion. I wish the military would rethink this decision."*

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

"This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while."
George W Bush



The American Taliban

g bush the first in chicago;

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

 

[txlonghorn]

Truce? Dream on ...they'd rather die than agree to any part of Christianity in our nation's conception. What is so odd is that we all seem to agree that Christianity was intentionally left out of our government for reasons that we have extensively discussed...to death actually. And it seems like we all have the same idea that God, Jesus and the holy grail were purposefully left out of the constitution to protect religious freedom or the freedom to ignore religion altogether if that's your choosing. Where we seem to be locked up is on the fact that these men were indeed, by self proclamation, Christian in their faith. So while the grand ol' America may not have been born out of Christianity...there would appear, from all the links provided here that support the notion, that Christianity and the acknowledgment of Christ as the Son of God, did indeed guide these men in their endeavor to form a more perfect union as ONE NATION....UNDER GOD

Respectfully, I strongly disagree with you Tex. I like reading your posts but I believe you need to take a good long look and study your argument. Tex, religion has no place in government. Sincerely, I believe YOU KNOW that yet are in denial due to your religous beliefs. Tex, think hard. Your religous beliefs are stronger than your political beliefs. I think the same way. They have no place in government. That is the law and the Founders laid it.

It's not about injecting MY beliefs. I'm not. My beliefs of no significance here and play NO part in my opinion. I'm simply looking back at history and making evident what is there. At the same time, I think you misunderstood my point. We actually agree that religion has NO place in government. That's one reason why this country is so great...or...USE TO BE. But that's not the REAL argument here, is it? The argument is whether or not it was founded on religious beliefs. And I don't think anyone with half a brain can scan the documents that have been preserved throughout the years and conclude otherwise. That doesn't mean that religion is weaved into it, but it WAS used in constructing it. That's my point.

 

[rikules]

Nobody said we are a solely Christian nation or that Christianity was in the constitution but keep repeating the obvious and pretend you're saying anything new. ZZzzzz

:rollseyes in disgust and contempt for such obvious stupidity

LOTS of people are saying "America IS a christian nation"
and when they say it they mean "OUR brand of christianity (you know, the one TRUE brand) deserves SPECIAL RIGHTS. And OUR beliefs and morals should be the LAWS of the
LAND"

and LOTS of people INSIST that our constitution either;
a. IS a CHRISTIAN constitution
or
b. SPECIFIES god (the christian god...er...I mean...the evangelical protestant white conservative possibly republican but most likely "teabagging" god)

Some Christians think they are at war with those of us who point to the Constitution for the secular document that it is.

exactly

and not just "some people"

PROMINENT people (limbaugh, coulter, oreily, beck,most of fox news etc...)
who have been waging the CULTURE WAR for the past 20 years

 

[Valerie]

Skydancer the peaceful buddha has now declared herself my enemy!

Hi, you have received 29 reputation points from Sky Dancer.
Reputation was given for this post.

Comment:
Here\'s a pos rep. Thanks for being such a great enemy.

Regards,
Sky Dancer

Note: This is an automated message.

If it was up to you I would not be able to practice my path. First, you'd come after the Muslims.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

Originally, the First Amendment only applied to the Congress. However, starting with Gitlow v. New York, 268 U.S. 652 (1925), the Supreme Court held that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment applies the First Amendment to each state, including any local government.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Truce? Dream on ...they'd rather die than agree to any part of Christianity in our nation's conception. What is so odd is that we all seem to agree that Christianity was intentionally left out of our government for reasons that we have extensively discussed...to death actually. And it seems like we all have the same idea that God, Jesus and the holy grail were purposefully left out of the constitution to protect religious freedom or the freedom to ignore religion altogether if that's your choosing. Where we seem to be locked up is on the fact that these men were indeed, by self proclamation, Christian in their faith. So while the grand ol' America may not have been born out of Christianity...there would appear, from all the links provided here that support the notion, that Christianity and the acknowledgment of Christ as the Son of God, did indeed guide these men in their endeavor to form a more perfect union as ONE NATION....UNDER GOD

Respectfully, I strongly disagree with you Tex. I like reading your posts but I believe you need to take a good long look and study your argument. Tex, religion has no place in government. Sincerely, I believe YOU KNOW that yet are in denial due to your religous beliefs. Tex, think hard. Your religous beliefs are stronger than your political beliefs. I think the same way. They have no place in government. That is the law and the Founders laid it.

It's not about injecting MY beliefs. I'm not. My beliefs of no significance here and play NO part in my opinion. I'm simply looking back at history and making evident what is there. At the same time, I think you misunderstood my point. We actually agree that religion has NO place in government. That's one reason why this country is so great...or...USE TO BE. But that's not the REAL argument here, is it? The argument is whether or not it was founded on religious beliefs. And I don't think anyone with half a brain can scan the documents that have been preserved throughout the years and conclude otherwise. That doesn't mean that religion is weaved into it, but it WAS used in constructing it. That's my point.

That's a supposition that cannot be proved.