The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[rightwinger]

Our founding fathers were men of faith. Nuff said

They were less Christian than most of our political leaders today

please---what a ridiculous claim.

Far from it....

Most of our current politicians (including our president) are Christians. Our founding fathers consisted of a large percentage of deists who had a broad perception of a higher being.

Our founding fathers would have been appalled at the large Christian influence in the Bush administration

 

[dilloduck]

Would you buy that the founding fathers believed in a God or is that still pushing the limits ?

 

[blu]

Would you buy that the founding father believed in a God or is that still pushing the limits ?

I think everyone one did. an atheist would have quite stood out at that time

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Our Nation was founded by puritan Christians whose ancestors fled the King's tyranny in England. My God,pick up a book once in awhile you Socialist/Progressive wankers. Yikes! lol!

 

[blu]

They were less Christian than most of our political leaders today

please---what a ridiculous claim.

Far from it....

Most of our current politicians (including our president) are Christians. Our founding fathers consisted of a large percentage of deists who had a broad perception of a higher being.

Our founding fathers would have been appalled at the large Christian influence in the Bush administration

This post makes much more sense than your last.

The founders had extremely strong religious beliefs much more so than the fake politicians today who use religion to secure votes.

On the other hand, they weren't stock Christians, they had wildly different views on god and many of them hated organized religion, so if your point is that organized christian religion today is more influential on politicians then you are right.

 

[dilloduck]

Would you buy that the founding father believed in a God or is that still pushing the limits ?

I think everyone one did. an atheist would have quite stood out at that time

Well that's the facts-----whatever direction any further debate takes, it's gotta include that truth. Rewriting history to prove a point is pretty lame.

 

[blu]

Our Nation was founded by puritan Christians whose ancestors fled the King's tyranny in England. My God,pick up a book once in awhile you Socialist/Progressive wankers. Yikes! lol!

now you are saying they were all puritans?




dude just stop you are becoming a joke. I think it is you who should research the religious beliefs of individual founders

 

[dilloduck]

please---what a ridiculous claim.

Far from it....

Most of our current politicians (including our president) are Christians. Our founding fathers consisted of a large percentage of deists who had a broad perception of a higher being.

Our founding fathers would have been appalled at the large Christian influence in the Bush administration

This post makes much more sense than your last.

The founders had extremely strong religious beliefs much more so than the fake politicians today who use religion to secure votes.

On the other hand, they weren't stock Christians, they had wildly different views on god and many of them hated organized religion, so if your point is that organized christian religion today is more influential on politicians then you are right.

poppycock-----what were the chances of a buddhist becoming president back then ?

 

[rightwinger]

Would you buy that the founding fathers believed in a God or is that still pushing the limits ?

Most of them...those who didn't...faked it

 

[Cuyo]

Would you buy that the founding fathers believed in a God or is that still pushing the limits ?

Most of them...those who didn't...faked it

Just like today's politicians. Not a lot of people intelligent enough to make it in politics still believe in 1st grade fairy tales. The only openly agnostic founding father I know of was Franklin.

 

[dilloduck]

Would you buy that the founding fathers believed in a God or is that still pushing the limits ?

Most of them...those who didn't...faked it

Just like today's politicians. Not a lot of people intelligent enough to make it in politics still believe in 1st grade fairy tales. The only openly agnostic founding father I know of was Franklin.

Claiming to know there isn't a god is just as "1st grade" as claiming there is one. Keep trying, theophobe.

 

[blu]

Most of them...those who didn't...faked it

Just like today's politicians. Not a lot of people intelligent enough to make it in politics still believe in 1st grade fairy tales. The only openly agnostic founding father I know of was Franklin.

Claiming to know there isn't a god is just as "1st grade" as claiming there is one. Keep trying, theophobe.

claiming to know or not know if there is a god is way different than believing in fairy tales such as the bible taken literally

 

[Care4all]

Ah yes, and that is the real question. Traditional Americans and "Progressives" disagree on what exactly is meant by "separation of church and state". This is where the argument lies. "Progressives" are continually seeking methods to make Christianity invisible.

How does one make a religion invisible? Is it a governments job to make religions visible?

Shouldn't they do that on their own?

No, it is not government's job to make a religion visible. Freedom of religion will accomplish that. In the US Constitution, government is to have no role in religious expression.

but the constitution/1st amendment says nothing of the gvt not having religious ''expression''? GVT officials expressed their religious beliefs all over the place!

the first amendment prohibited the government from legislating an Established Religion of the State, an Established Church of the gvt ie the Anglican Church, and gave the gvt no powers to stop any citizen from practicing or expressing or establishing, their religion or church in the public square.

Congress shall make no law 'respecting', (in old english this word is defined as 'concerning') an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

care

 

[dilloduck]

Just like today's politicians. Not a lot of people intelligent enough to make it in politics still believe in 1st grade fairy tales. The only openly agnostic founding father I know of was Franklin.

Claiming to know there isn't a god is just as "1st grade" as claiming there is one. Keep trying, theophobe.

claiming to know or not know if there is a god is way different than believing in fairy tales such as the bible taken literally

we aren't talking about literalists but nice try.

 

[Cuyo]

Most of them...those who didn't...faked it

Just like today's politicians. Not a lot of people intelligent enough to make it in politics still believe in 1st grade fairy tales. The only openly agnostic founding father I know of was Franklin.

Claiming to know there isn't a god is just as "1st grade" as claiming there is one. Keep trying, theophobe.

The difference is, the good Christians *KNOW* what happened, *KNOW* what happens when you die, *KNOW* who the good guys and the bad guys are.

The atheists/agnostics generally have the same questions about our existence, but have the cajones to say "I DON'T KNOW."

And that's where I am - I don't know. And neither do you. And neither does the Pope or Pat Robertson. We don't know the answers to these questions. Any answers proposed conveniently require no verifiable evidence. Most religions were invented as a means to instill fear in, therefore control, primitive humans.

 

[dilloduck]

Just like today's politicians. Not a lot of people intelligent enough to make it in politics still believe in 1st grade fairy tales. The only openly agnostic founding father I know of was Franklin.

Claiming to know there isn't a god is just as "1st grade" as claiming there is one. Keep trying, theophobe.

The difference is, the good Christians *KNOW* what happened, *KNOW* what happens when you die, *KNOW* who the good guys and the bad guys are.

The atheists/agnostics generally have the same questions about our existence, but have the cajones to say "I DON'T KNOW."

And that's where I am - I don't know. And neither do you. And neither does the Pope or Pat Robertson. We don't know the answers to these questions. Any answers proposed conveniently require no verifiable evidence. Most religions were invented as a means to instill fear in, therefore control, primitive humans.

You mistakenly assume that you know what a good Christian is. A common first grade mistake made by people trying to make a point about the Christian religion.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Engraved on the top of the Washington Monument is the phrase "Laus Deo." It was purposely placed in this position to face the heavens. The translation is "Praise be to God."

, but not "Christ"

But whom was Christ but the Father incarnate on the Earth?

Christ means anointed one. If Jesus is the God the Father then I am a bit confused about who anointed him.

 

[LuckyDan]

From George Washiongton's Farewell Address (1796)

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

The Birth of Freedom - George Washington?s Farewell Address

 

[Care4all]

deists believed there was a God, a creator based on rationalism or reason, and based on nature....they did not believe in miracles or God's intervention on earth, nor did they believe in prophesy, or the deity of Christ....they believed in 'freewill' of man, and what happens on earth is from man's freewill interacted with nature.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I don't understand why religious beliefs of the founders is such a big deal. non-christians who try to prove they weren't christians are just insecure in their own beliefs or have some grudge aagainst christians while christians who try to prove they were are similarly insecure in their own beliefs (why do they need other's beliefs to validate theirs?) and have an ego/self confidence issue as they try to put down non-believers

I really love the people who insist that Jefferson was not a Christian even though he said he was. Apparently the only definition of Christian that matters is the one they use, not the one he used.