The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity

[AllieBaba]

And? Has anyone here disputed that the Founders themselves for the most part were Christians? Does being a Christian, saying one is a Christian, going regularly to a Christian church mean these guys constructed our secular government upon Christian principles?

Yes.

So, the secular government was based on Christian principles just because one of its founders may have said something like this.



or even founders/politicians saying something like this?

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.

and this:

And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people....

We know exactly what they said. They said, exactly, that they founded the nation on Christian principle.

No need to rephrase, misquote, or pretend. They said it.

 

[AllieBaba]

The Founding Fathers principles were founded on Biblical teachings based on Christianity.
In order to have freedom from government each person must
Think for yourself
Govern yourself
Be responsible
Be accountable for your actions and words
Take care of your neighbors
Have values and character.
All of this is from the bible
It goes across the board whether you are Christian,Jew,Muslim or Atheist.
These principles are what brings the melting pot together as Americans.
If you don't have the majority of Americans having these principles then Government must take control, and there goes your freedom.

These are Christian values? Not generic values?

Yes they are Christian values

And they are the values that the FF referenced. They didn't reference some other ideology's similar tenets...they referenced the principles in the bible. They told us so. I guess maybe you think the world is so stupid as to buy your lame "well if Hindus practice these things then they aren't Christian tenets".

Not true..if Hindus have a similar value system, it just means they are both Hindu AND Christian values.

But it doesn't change the fact that when our founding fathers said they were referencing the bible they were, in fact, referencing the bible. If they said they were applying Christian values, they were, in fact, applying Christian values. Not Hindu values, and just *saying* they were Christian.

 

[editec]

Christian "principles" do not lead to a SECULAR state.

Which we clearly, very clearly, have.

Silly debate this.

 

[AllieBaba]

Of course they do, and have.

Are you denying that the Declaration is a founding document? Because the historians will argue with you over that.

They will also argue with you over whether or not the country was based on Christian tenets. You fringe retards are making an argument that is laughable, and isn't supported by anybody of any understanding.

 

[peach174]

The Founding Fathers principles were founded on Biblical teachings based on Christianity.
In order to have freedom from government each person must
Think for yourself
Govern yourself
Be responsible
Be accountable for your actions and words
Take care of your neighbors
Have values and character.
All of this is from the bible
It goes across the board whether you are Christian,Jew,Muslim or Atheist.
These principles are what brings the melting pot together as Americans.
If you don't have the majority of Americans having these principles then Government must take control, and there goes your freedom.

Guess what the 1st congress did.
They had Bibles printed up and had them distributed to all of our schools we had at the time in order to teach the above mentioned principles.

 

[AllieBaba]

No way! That's not possible! Because we're a SECULAR government, therefore none of that stuff REALLY happened, and the founding fathers were lying!

And oh, btw...the Declaration isn't a founding document and has nothing to do with the structure or the foundation of this country.

 

[AllieBaba]

PS...as I have pointed out repeatedly, whether or not a country is founded on Christian principle, and whether or not it's a theocracy, are two completely different things.

The people who can't get their brains around that need to review their concept of either our government, the concept of foundation, and possibly the bible, as well. Because you have formed this weird idea based on fallacy.

 

[Dr.Drock]

The Founding Fathers principles were founded on Biblical teachings based on Christianity.
In order to have freedom from government each person must
Think for yourself
Govern yourself
Be responsible
Be accountable for your actions and words
Take care of your neighbors
Have values and character.
All of this is from the bible
It goes across the board whether you are Christian,Jew,Muslim or Atheist.
These principles are what brings the melting pot together as Americans.
If you don't have the majority of Americans having these principles then Government must take control, and there goes your freedom.

These are Christian values? Not generic values?

Yes they are Christian values

Can only christians have those values?

Seems to me people of all backgrounds and religions and non-religions can also have those principles, which would seem like it's silly to attribute those values to one particular religion.

 

[AllieBaba]

That's beside the point.

The debate is whether or not the country was founded on Christian values. Not whether or not other religions, cultures, whatever, also embrace those values.

Of course other people embrace the same values, and they don't attritbute them to Christianity. But our founding fathers did.

Nobody is saying that EVERYBODY who has the same value system is Christian, either.

All that's being said is that our country was founded upon CHRISTIAN principle.

And it was.

 

[bodecea]

The Founding Fathers principles were founded on Biblical teachings based on Christianity.
In order to have freedom from government each person must
Think for yourself
Govern yourself
Be responsible
Be accountable for your actions and words
Take care of your neighbors
Have values and character.
All of this is from the bible
It goes across the board whether you are Christian,Jew,Muslim or Atheist.
These principles are what brings the melting pot together as Americans.
If you don't have the majority of Americans having these principles then Government must take control, and there goes your freedom.

These are Christian values? Not generic values?

Yes they are Christian values

So, they can only be found in those who believe in Christianity and before Christianity they did not exist?

 

[AllieBaba]

You know, I just addressed that, moron. Do you do that on purpose? Ask questions that have JUST BEEN ANSWERED?

 

[bodecea]

Yes.

So, the secular government was based on Christian principles just because one of its founders may have said something like this.



or even founders/politicians saying something like this?



and this:

And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people....

We know exactly what they said. They said, exactly, that they founded the nation on Christian principle.

No need to rephrase, misquote, or pretend. They said it.

Those are not rephrases, those are not misquotes, those are not pretentions...they are real quotes...and yes they said them....

This professed Christian said them:

Adolf Hitler - Roman Catholic

and other founders of his nation
Hermann Goering - Lutheran
Heinrich Himmler - Roman Catholic
Martin Bormann - Lutheran
Joseph Goebbels - Roman Catholic

 

[Dr.Drock]

That's beside the point.

The debate is whether or not the country was founded on Christian values. Not whether or not other religions, cultures, whatever, also embrace those values.

Of course other people embrace the same values, and they don't attritbute them to Christianity. But our founding fathers did.

Nobody is saying that EVERYBODY who has the same value system is Christian, either.

All that's being said is that our country was founded upon CHRISTIAN principle.

And it was.

I don't think it's a yes or no answer.

There were christians involved who attribute the principles they had to founding the country to being christian in nature.

There were non-christians involved who certainly wouldn't attribute the principles they had in founding the country to being christian in nature.

Not a black and white answer, not 100% either way yay or nay.

 

[peach174]

Yes Way !
The meaning of separation of Church and state meant government or sates could not have one religion sanctioned by them. No state could say they were promoting or supporting one religion over any other.
This is why people came here for freedom to worship as they pleased. The courts are dead wrong on this ruling, they based it on one writing and not all of the other facts.
And guess what else, Government should not have a department of education. Ever since the department was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter our schools education has gone downhill.

 

[bodecea]

That's beside the point.

The debate is whether or not the country was founded on Christian values. Not whether or not other religions, cultures, whatever, also embrace those values.

Of course other people embrace the same values, and they don't attritbute them to Christianity. But our founding fathers did.

Nobody is saying that EVERYBODY who has the same value system is Christian, either.

All that's being said is that our country was founded upon CHRISTIAN principle.

And it was.

So they are NOT Christian values...they are simply "Good Human Being" values. There is NOTHING uniquely Christian, exclusively Christian about those values after all, is there?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

And? Has anyone here disputed that the Founders themselves for the most part were Christians? Does being a Christian, saying one is a Christian, going regularly to a Christian church mean these guys constructed our secular government upon Christian principles?

Yes.

So, the secular government was based on Christian principles just because one of its founders may have said something like this.



or even founders/politicians saying something like this?

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter.

and this:

And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people....

I don't recall any of our founding fathers making those statements. PLease direct the quote to the person it belongs to, for futher examination.

My guess is you're building yet another strawman.

 

[bodecea]

Yes Way !
The meaning of separation of Church and state meant government or sates could not have one religion sanctioned by them. No state could say they were promoting or supporting one religion over any other.
This is why people came here for freedom to worship as they pleased. The courts are dead wrong on this ruling, they based it on one writing and not all of the other facts.
And guess what else, Government should not have a department of education. Ever since the department was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter our schools education has gone downhill.

Off topic, but what the heck....Why shouldn't the government have a dept of education?

 

[peach174]

These are Christian values? Not generic values?

Yes they are Christian values

Can only christians have those values?

Seems to me people of all backgrounds and religions and non-religions can also have those principles, which would seem like it's silly to attribute those values to one particular religion.

What part of it goes across the board to all don't you get?

 

[peach174]

Yes Way !
The meaning of separation of Church and state meant government or sates could not have one religion sanctioned by them. No state could say they were promoting or supporting one religion over any other.
This is why people came here for freedom to worship as they pleased. The courts are dead wrong on this ruling, they based it on one writing and not all of the other facts.
And guess what else, Government should not have a department of education. Ever since the department was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter our schools education has gone downhill.

Off topic, but what the heck....Why shouldn't the government have a dept of education?

Education of our children has gone downhill
Perfect example - you can't read.

 

[bodecea]

Yes.

So, the secular government was based on Christian principles just because one of its founders may have said something like this.



or even founders/politicians saying something like this?



and this:

And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people....

I don't recall any of our founding fathers making those statements. PLease direct the quote to the person it belongs to, for futher examination.

My guess is you're building yet another strawman.

Done...read up a few posts.