The United States IS a Christian Nation

[bodecea]

You're being too vague to respond to. All you're doing is reacting emotionally to vague amorphisms, and acting as though that's an argument or even a statement.

It's not.

As I said, I don't care if you want to call it a christian nation, but remember that in doing so you are also giving all the blame for what we do wrong on your heads, and relieving the rest of us of said blame. So have at it, just don't whine when the government fucks up more.

I can whine if it gets fucked up because of progressive liberal politics.

But you never really established the fuck ups, so saying "more" is meaningless.

Our Founding Fathers were Liberals...the British were the Conservatives.

 

[bodecea]

JB, if you hadn't completely screwed up that quoting I may have more than this to say:

There is no evidence that JEWS were in Egypt at the time ... I repeat, no evidence that JEWS were there.

One of the most important discoveries that relate to the time of the Exodus is the Merneptah stele which dates to about 1210 BC. Merneptah, the king of Egypt, boasts that he has destroyed his enemies in Canaan. He states: Plundered is the Canaan with every evil; Carried off is Ashkelon; seized upon is Gezer; Yanoam is made as that which does not exist; Israel is laid waste, his seed is not; (ANET 1969, 378).The word "Israel" here is written in Egyptian with the determinative for people rather than land (ANET 1969, 378 note 18). This implies that Israel did not have a king or kingdom at this time. This would be the time of the judges. The text also implies that Israel was as strong as the other cities mentioned, and not just a small tribe. The south to north order of the three city-states may provide a general location for Israel. There is an interesting place named in Joshua 15:9 and 18:15, "well of waters of Nephtoah," that may be the Hebrew name of Merneptah. The well which is probably anachronistically named after Merneptah would be near Jerusalem. The Egyptian Papyrus Anastasi III contains "The Journal of a Frontier Official" which mentions this well. It says:Year 3, 1st Month of the 3rd Season, Day 17. The Chief of Bowmen of the Wells of Mer-ne-Ptah Hotep-hir-Maat--life, prosperity, health!--which is (on) the mountain range, arrived for a (judicial) investigation in the fortress which is in Sile (ANET 1969, 258).Yurco has recently re-analyzed the Karnak battle reliefs, and has concluded that they should be ascribed to Merneptah and not Ramses II (1990, 21-38). There are four scenes which Yurco correlates with the Merneptah stele. One scene is the battle against the city of Ashkelon which is specifically named. Yurco argues that the other two city scenes are Gezer and Yanoam. He concludes that the open country scene must be Israel. Rainey rejects this view because it shows them with chariots and infantry (1990, 56-60). Lawrence Stager suggests that the small horses pulling the chariot belong to pharaoh's army as in the Ashkelon scene (1985, 58). Rainey thinks the Shasu are Israelites, but others identify the Shasu as Edomites (Stager 1985, 60). Both scholars Yurco and Rainey agree that these battle scenes are from Merneptah's reign (Yurco 1991, 61; Rainey 1992, 73-4; Hess 1993, 134). Before the discovery of the Merneptah stele scholars placed the date of the exodus and entry into Canaan much later. They are now forced to admit that Israel was already in Canaan at the time of Merneptah. Israel was big and strong enough to challenge Egypt in battle. This stele puts a terminus ante quem date of 1210 BC for the exodus (McCarter 1992, 132).

IBSS - Biblical Archaeology - Evidence of the Exodus from Egypt

evidence for hebrews egypt - Google Search


We all know how much you hate research

I thought the Jews came to Egypt on the invitation of Joseph, not because they were conquered.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The truel liberals and radicals were George Washington et al.

The rightists today were the American Loyalists of King George III.

 

[rdean]

Very confusing, first Obama says that we're not a Christian nation, then world acclaimed religion professors from such universities as the prestigious Boston University, acclaim that .... well in fact, the US is pervasively Christian and only a Christian would be so blind as to not see that fact.

In one of his keenest observations, Prothero relates that when he discusses the "Christian America" question in his classes, evangelical Christians describe America as a multicultural nation of religious diversity while non-Christian students see the nation as pervasively Christian. As he writes, "my Jewish students tell me you have to be blind (or Christian) not to see that this is a Christian country."

I would tend to agree, as Christians or even "Judeo-Christian" aligned persons, the ability to see just how Christian we are is inadequate since we don't know anything else.

We do not frequently visit or live in Muslim countries, or in East Asia, or India where Christianity has hardly shaped their worldview.

And we rarely associate with such persons enough to get an adequate perspective.

From an outside perspective, it would seem that Obama's comments would only be seen as crazy, or pandering, or false. I'm only suggesting that would be the case, I don't know if anyone has made that claim from say...the Middle East.

But, regarding the US, it seems someone is trying to change our "perception" and is getting away with it because of our inability to perceive the truth otherwise.

AlbertMohler.com

"And we rarely associate with such persons enough to get an adequate perspective."

That may not be entirely true. Abraham didn't invent three separate religions, he invented only one.

Eventually, that one, single religion divided into Judaism, Islam and Christianity. This is why all three religions come from the same place and all three have many of the same characters in their "supernatural" text.

For instance, Mary is one of the few women mentioned by name in the Koran. She is mentioned as the mother of a great prophet, his name is Jesus. Sound familiar?

Then, when you look at what these religions have in common as far as what they are against and for, Islam and Christianity are much more closely aligned. Judaism, by necessity doesn’t have the luxury that the others have. I’ll explain why, but first, the similarities.

Christianity and Islam:

Anti women’s rights
Anti gay
Anti science (teaching the science of evolution is outlawed in many Muslim countries, which is why they send their doctors abroad because you can’t teach medicine without touching on evolution; many Christians in this country want to outlaw that teaching. It is only in the curriculum of Christian colleges for purposes of accreditation.)
Forced to pledge to God in public schools (Christians want to do that here)
The church is entirely patriarchal
Then there is the propensity towards violence and a pro war, shoot first mentality
Refusal to negotiate because they see everything in black and white.

Judaism has had to pass on some of these things. Israel needs every able bodied person, which is why they accept gays in their military; it’s a matter of survival. They need science to create weapons they need for survival, numbers aren’t enough. They also support women’s rights. Like I said, they need every able bodied person to survive. When it comes to survival, then people start talking, at least some of the time.

Remember, the founders put protections in the constitution against the religious because they understood the danger of religion unchecked (look at Iran for example). The Iranians are fighting for a secular type of government where religion is out, a government similiar to ours. The Christians in this country want more religion in government, more like the current government of Iran.

This is a secular government with a majority of the people being Christian. It’s set up that want to protect us against the religious, and that includes the Christians. If they believe it’s “God’s Will”, people with do anything. Look at all the violence in the Bible; it’s only matched by the Koran.

 

[HUGGY]

The United States IS a Christian Nation

Go back into your church and reconsider the hate you are invoking.

 

[Hawkins]

Western nations are Christianity centric, perhaps that's why they dominated the science and technology fields in the past centuries.

Nations of other religions, including Catholic believes are relatively weak.

And "God Bless America"!

 

[JBeukema]

Western nations are Christianity centric, perhaps that's why they dominated the science and technology fields in the past centuries.

Actually, that's because of people who broke from religious dogma and , in the case of nuclear power, because of members of the Jews who moved here.

 

[Hawkins]

Western nations are Christianity centric, perhaps that's why they dominated the science and technology fields in the past centuries.

Actually, that's because of people who broke from religious dogma and , in the case of nuclear power, because of members of the Jews who moved here.

Actually, I think you mean the separation of church and state preached by the Bible as render what Caesar's to Caesar, something like that?! Or do you mistakenly mean that Isaac Newton is not a Christian?

 

[Bass v 2.0]

The US is not a Christian nation, sorry, Christian for one is someone who follows the Bible and is first baptized into Christ and has their sins washed away. Just because someone proclaims Christianity doesn't mean one is a Christian, and it that context the US is not a Christian nation.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Euro-American part of our culture has always been Christian. The Founders made sure to separate organized religion and religious belief (read your Constitution) from the national government. All of the states eventually did the same. The Catholic immigration of the 1830s on plus the 2nd Great Awakening led to the American mores of a white, traditional/evangelical Protestant society, which has been breaking down since the 1950s. Religiosity has always been a part of America, but the government has always been (supposedly) secular and neutral.

 

[editec]

Historically the USA is a child of nations that were once part of Chistendom.

In that sense, and in that sense only, one might make the claim that the USA (and all colonies dominated by Europeans) are historically Christian.

But religion as a unifying principle of the nation was categorically rejected by the floundering fathers so the answer is

The USA is a SECULAR nation, not a Christian nation.​

God bless America for having that much sense, at least!

 

[JakeStarkey]

U.S. is a secular government but with a culture rich in history of religiosity that both unites and divides it. The 15% of Americans who are not religious don't have to like it but they are affected by it -- always have been, always will be.

 

[editec]

U.S. is a secular government but with a culture rich in history of religiosity that both unites and divides it. The 15% of Americans who are not religious don't have to like it but they are affected by it -- always have been, always will be.

We are effected by some Christian values to be sure.

That does NOT make us remotely a "Christian" nation.

 

[rdean]

To think that the US and Western nations dominate science BECAUSE of mystical beliefs is so far out there, it's absurd. It's because people were able to break away from church domination, referred to as the "Dark Ages" that western nations dominate science.

Of course, the US is losing its domination. With the rise of religion in the last 30 years, the US is becoming a nation that worships ignorance. The "Christian War on Science" has been a disaster for the country. That's part of what is showing up now with the right wing going off the deep end.

The best and brightest are referred to as "geeks" and "nerds". There is this bizarre idea that "smart" people have no "common sense" (everyone has some story about a "smart" person that can't stop doing "dumb" things. Mostly, they are flat out unbelievable and silly stories.).

Then, there is this very strange idea from the right that "science" and "technology" are somehow unrelated. Who even knows where that comes from? Of course, making this imaginary separation means you can sell the idea of the "War on Science" without damage, a false premise.

The problem with turning children away from science is that we lose the best and brightest. To shackle a curious mind with mysticism and the occult should be a crime. It is a crime against humanity, for sure.

Why would I think that religion is anti science? You mean besides the religious wanting to change school curriculums to exclude science and replace it with the "supernatural" and insist that is a "balanced" approach? Or could it be the recent PEW poll that says only 6% of scientists are Republican (remember, at one time, most scientists were Republican). Even the gays have organizations made up of gay scientists. Where are the evangelical science organizations? There are none. Christians have contributed very little in the last 30 years. There may be scientists who call themselves Christian, but it's because their parent did. Ask the last time they were in church and they will tell you, they don't remember. Ask if they believe in a Middle Eastern deity made up by primitive desert dwellers, and they will tell you for sure, no.

 

[JakeStarkey]

U.S. is a secular government but with a culture rich in history of religiosity that both unites and divides it. The 15% of Americans who are not religious don't have to like it but they are affected by it -- always have been, always will be.

We are effected by some Christian values to be sure.

That does NOT make us remotely a "Christian" nation.

If you mean secularly, you are right. If you mean culturally, you better go read our history.

 

[editec]

U.S. is a secular government but with a culture rich in history of religiosity that both unites and divides it. The 15% of Americans who are not religious don't have to like it but they are affected by it -- always have been, always will be.

We are effected by some Christian values to be sure.

That does NOT make us remotely a "Christian" nation.

If you mean secularly, you are right. If you mean culturally, you better go read our history.

A mostly fair distinction.

But we have legal abortions, which are clearly NOT culturally Christian.

And we have divorce which is clearly NOT culturally Christian.

We have NO church courts which is also clearly NOT culturally Christian, too.

We are a secular nation.

Most of us are either proclaiming Christians or comfortable in a nation where our basic values evolved from formerly Christian nations.

But that doesn't make us a "Christian nation".

The term itself is goofy, despite how much comfort some of my fellow christians might get from saying it.

If this ever really became a Christian nation, as a practicing christian, I'd have to leave it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I understand what you are saying. I agree that we are not a "Christian" nation, but would suggest that we are a nation of Christians culturally, with a wide wave to all of the non-Christians, skeptics, free thinkers, agnostics, and atheists that make up a solid portion of our nation.

I would never permit any religious organization to control the government. That is what separation of church and state in the Constitution was all about; the Founders would be horrified at what the social values conservatives have pulled off in the last thirty years.

While the Founders would surely be surprised and horrified at a bi-racial President, they would have been far more horrified at an evangelical continuing control of national politics. They would have said, "Git me my musket and meet me at the village green."

 

[Cold Fusion38]

I think the problem is far too many "Christians" beleive that "Christian" values began with Christianity. THEY DID NOT!!! The sociatal values necessary for a functioning society predate Christianity by a couple of MILLENIA!

 

[Rubber Hoser]

America IS a christian nation, that's the problem. Jesus was a big fan of aircraft carriers and nukes and for sure would have wanted the US to attack as many countries as possible, and to occupy as many other countries as possible, while their army priests go forth and spread jesus' message of love at the end of a gun barrel. Isn't that what christianity is all about?

 

[Cold Fusion38]

Didn't Jesus say "speak softly and carry a big stick?"