The United States IS a Christian Nation

[AllieBaba]

I believe newborns get a pass into heaven if they die. I think that's scriptural.

WRONG
THEY HAVE NOT ACCEPTED CHRIST N THEIR MINDS AND HEARTS
THEY BEAR THE SIN OF ADAM
THEY TO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE

to say anything else is to contradict scripture

Matthew 19 "Jesus said, "Let the little children [paidion] come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.""

John 9:41: "Jesus said, "If you were blind [tuphlos], you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.""

2 Samuel 12:23: "But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."" That's David, beloved of God, talking about his infant son upon the baby's death.

 

[billyboy]

I believe newborns get a pass into heaven if they die. I think that's scriptural.

WRONG
THEY HAVE NOT ACCEPTED CHRIST N THEIR MINDS AND HEARTS
THEY BEAR THE SIN OF ADAM
THEY TO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE

to say anything else is to contradict scripture

Matthew 19 "Jesus said, "Let the little children [paidion] come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.""

John 9:41: "Jesus said, "If you were blind [tuphlos], you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.""

2 Samuel 12:23: "But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."" That's David, beloved of God, talking about his infant son upon the baby's death.

Matthew, John, and Samuel all have something in common....none of them are American.

 

[TofuDog]

"Matthew, John, and Samuel all have something in common....none of them are American."

And they were gay.

 

[AllieBaba]

Time for devil's advocate here. If this is truly a christian nation, do you christians really want all the blame for the shit that's going on? I would think that you wouldn't want to be connected to that.

Our nation is the nation that people risk their lives, and the lives of their children, to reach. It is the best nation in the world to live in, and protects the weak and vulnerable the world over.

We should do more abroad. But our standard of living, even for the poorest of our poor, is astronomically better than any other country in the world.

So yes, I take credit for that as a Christian. It is because we are a Christian nation that it's so.

So then everything we have done wrong is because there are too many christians voting?

That's too vague. Explain "everything we've done wrong". That's just rhetoric.

 

[AllieBaba]

WRONG
THEY HAVE NOT ACCEPTED CHRIST N THEIR MINDS AND HEARTS
THEY BEAR THE SIN OF ADAM
THEY TO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE

to say anything else is to contradict scripture

Matthew 19 "Jesus said, "Let the little children [paidion] come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.""

John 9:41: "Jesus said, "If you were blind [tuphlos], you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.""

2 Samuel 12:23: "But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."" That's David, beloved of God, talking about his infant son upon the baby's death.

Matthew, John, and Samuel all have something in common....none of them are American.

Okie dokey. That's certainly relevant to the current discussion of whether or not children go to heaven.
Try to track. You and your bud JB.

 

[KittenKoder]

Our nation is the nation that people risk their lives, and the lives of their children, to reach. It is the best nation in the world to live in, and protects the weak and vulnerable the world over.

We should do more abroad. But our standard of living, even for the poorest of our poor, is astronomically better than any other country in the world.

So yes, I take credit for that as a Christian. It is because we are a Christian nation that it's so.

So then everything we have done wrong is because there are too many christians voting?

That's too vague. Explain "everything we've done wrong". That's just rhetoric.

People are complaining about shit we've done wrong all over the place, this forum to. If this is a christian nation then the blame for all our mistakes lays solely on the christians, whether because they are the majority or because they "made the government" ... it means they inherit all the mistakes.

 

[AllieBaba]

Vague rhetoric. Let's have specifics and I'll tell you if #1, it is a "wrong" (which of course is subjective) and #2, if it's because of our Christianity that it took place.

 

[KittenKoder]

Vague rhetoric. Let's have specifics and I'll tell you if #1, it is a "wrong" (which of course is subjective) and #2, if it's because of our Christianity that it took place.

Off the top of my head, Vietnam. There are many others more current, wishing "Rushes kidneys would fail" ... medical mayhem ... economic fuck ups ... etc.. Also, it's not you who determines if something is wrong, unless you are god ... and I think your own god would take offense at that. Finally, no, it wouldn't be because of christianity, but if christians are in power then the responsibility and blame is on them, not the rest of us, for any mistakes made by our country. So, if you want it to be a christian nation, have at it, but don't whine about the problems caused and try to blame atheists, pagans, Jews, Muslims, etc. because you voted for it or at least allowed it to happen.

 

[AllieBaba]

You're saying that you can decide if something is "wrong" but I can't?

Lol.

As for the rest, that's just emotional b.s. I have no idea what you're talking about..."Rush's kidneys fail" etc.

And Vietnam was fucked up by liberal progressives. If we'd gone in there to win, as a very focused and devout nation did during WWII we would have won. As it was, we didn't lose, we just left.

The rest...the "economic fuck ups" and "medical mayhem"??? WTH are you talking about? Do you know?

 

[KittenKoder]

You're saying that you can decide if something is "wrong" but I can't?

Lol.

As for the rest, that's just emotional b.s. I have no idea what you're talking about..."Rush's kidneys fail" etc.

And Vietnam was fucked up by liberal progressives. If we'd gone in there to win, as a very focused and devout nation did during WWII we would have won. As it was, we didn't lose, we just left.

The rest...the "economic fuck ups" and "medical mayhem"??? WTH are you talking about? Do you know?

No, I am using what many "christians" are complaining about as wrong. So, if they think it's so wrong, but they lead the country, then they really are hypocrites, and here I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. My bad.

 

[billyboy]

No. What I'm saying is that I have an opinion just like you do, but I actually understand that other people have opinons that aren't like mine. I don't particularly like "progressives", but I know that they live here, and i know that I have to tolerate them. I'm not so sure that "progressives" feel the same way.

 

[AllieBaba]

You're being too vague to respond to. All you're doing is reacting emotionally to vague amorphisms, and acting as though that's an argument or even a statement.

It's not.

 

[KittenKoder]

You're being too vague to respond to. All you're doing is reacting emotionally to vague amorphisms, and acting as though that's an argument or even a statement.

It's not.

As I said, I don't care if you want to call it a christian nation, but remember that in doing so you are also giving all the blame for what we do wrong on your heads, and relieving the rest of us of said blame. So have at it, just don't whine when the government fucks up more.

 

[Smartt33]

I believe newborns get a pass into heaven if they die. I think that's scriptural.

WRONG
THEY HAVE NOT ACCEPTED CHRIST N THEIR MINDS AND HEARTS
THEY BEAR THE SIN OF ADAM
THEY TO TO THE LAKE OF FIRE

to say anything else is to contradict scripture

Wrong: They are not sinners, though they do have the sin nature just as do all huimans from Adam. They have no sin, and are not under the penalty of sin. They do enter the presence of God, in His awesome Kingdom.

 

[AllieBaba]

You're being too vague to respond to. All you're doing is reacting emotionally to vague amorphisms, and acting as though that's an argument or even a statement.

It's not.

As I said, I don't care if you want to call it a christian nation, but remember that in doing so you are also giving all the blame for what we do wrong on your heads, and relieving the rest of us of said blame. So have at it, just don't whine when the government fucks up more.

I can whine if it gets fucked up because of progressive liberal politics.

But you never really established the fuck ups, so saying "more" is meaningless.

 

[JBeukema]

I know that I would not want this to be considered a pagan nation (that's a lot of religions to include but meh) because then I would be too embarrassed to admit to being pagan at this time. So if you want the blame, have at it.

What about a secular nation with true freedom of religion?

Matthew 19 "Jesus said, "Let the little children [paidion] come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.""

John 9:41: "Jesus said, "If you were blind [tuphlos], you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.""

2 Samuel 12:23: "But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me."" That's David, beloved of God, talking about his infant son upon the baby's death.

There is none who is perfect, no not one. All are short of the glory of God.
There is only one way to heaven blahblahblah- they haven't accepted Christ in their minds and hearts

they do have the sin nature just as do all huimans from Adam. They have no sin

nowm who can tell me the problem with this statement?

 

[JBeukema]

JB, if you hadn't completely screwed up that quoting I may have more than this to say:

There is no evidence that JEWS were in Egypt at the time ... I repeat, no evidence that JEWS were there.

One of the most important discoveries that relate to the time of the Exodus is the Merneptah stele which dates to about 1210 BC. Merneptah, the king of Egypt, boasts that he has destroyed his enemies in Canaan. He states: Plundered is the Canaan with every evil; Carried off is Ashkelon; seized upon is Gezer; Yanoam is made as that which does not exist; Israel is laid waste, his seed is not; (ANET 1969, 378).The word "Israel" here is written in Egyptian with the determinative for people rather than land (ANET 1969, 378 note 18). This implies that Israel did not have a king or kingdom at this time. This would be the time of the judges. The text also implies that Israel was as strong as the other cities mentioned, and not just a small tribe. The south to north order of the three city-states may provide a general location for Israel. There is an interesting place named in Joshua 15:9 and 18:15, "well of waters of Nephtoah," that may be the Hebrew name of Merneptah. The well which is probably anachronistically named after Merneptah would be near Jerusalem. The Egyptian Papyrus Anastasi III contains "The Journal of a Frontier Official" which mentions this well. It says:Year 3, 1st Month of the 3rd Season, Day 17. The Chief of Bowmen of the Wells of Mer-ne-Ptah Hotep-hir-Maat--life, prosperity, health!--which is (on) the mountain range, arrived for a (judicial) investigation in the fortress which is in Sile (ANET 1969, 258).Yurco has recently re-analyzed the Karnak battle reliefs, and has concluded that they should be ascribed to Merneptah and not Ramses II (1990, 21-38). There are four scenes which Yurco correlates with the Merneptah stele. One scene is the battle against the city of Ashkelon which is specifically named. Yurco argues that the other two city scenes are Gezer and Yanoam. He concludes that the open country scene must be Israel. Rainey rejects this view because it shows them with chariots and infantry (1990, 56-60). Lawrence Stager suggests that the small horses pulling the chariot belong to pharaoh's army as in the Ashkelon scene (1985, 58). Rainey thinks the Shasu are Israelites, but others identify the Shasu as Edomites (Stager 1985, 60). Both scholars Yurco and Rainey agree that these battle scenes are from Merneptah's reign (Yurco 1991, 61; Rainey 1992, 73-4; Hess 1993, 134). Before the discovery of the Merneptah stele scholars placed the date of the exodus and entry into Canaan much later. They are now forced to admit that Israel was already in Canaan at the time of Merneptah. Israel was big and strong enough to challenge Egypt in battle. This stele puts a terminus ante quem date of 1210 BC for the exodus (McCarter 1992, 132).

IBSS - Biblical Archaeology - Evidence of the Exodus from Egypt

evidence for hebrews egypt - Google Search


We all know how much you hate research

 

[AVG-JOE]

America is not nw nor has it ever been a christian Nation. It has at various points in time been a nation composed largely of either Christians or those who thought themsleves to be Christianity. Christianity is not now nor has it ever been about the nation state, it is about the individual human heart.

Of course... much of the time, especially in the beginning, when the squabbling families of Europe and her 13 colonies were carving up the land that was to become known as 'America', it often depended on who was doing the counting, if sheer percentage of a population of a geographic region at a particular point in time counts for anything.

-Joe

 

[JakeStarkey]

Section 11 is the key term for this discussion. The U.S. government proclaims that it is not and never has been a nation of Christians. This thread is hereby ended.

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Authored by American diplomat Joel Barlow in 1796, the following treaty was sent to the floor of the Senate, June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and unanimously approved. John Adams, having seen the treaty, signed it and proudly proclaimed it to the Nation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Annals of Congress, 5th Congress
Article 1. There is a firm and perpetual peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary, made by the free consent of both parties, and guarantied by the most potent Dey and Regency of Algiers.

Art. 2. If any goods belonging to any nation with which either of the parties is at war, shall be loaded on board of vessels belonging to the other party, they shall pass free, and no attempt shall be made to take or detain them.

Art. 3. If any citizens , subjects, or effects, belonging to either party, shall be found on board a prize vessel taken from an enemy by the other party, such citizens or subjects shall be set at liberty, and the effects restored to the owners.

Art. 4. Proper passports are to be given to all vessels of both parties, by which they are to be known. And considering the distance between the two countries, eighteen months from the date of this treaty, shall be allowed for procuring such passports. During this interval the other papers, belonging to such vessels, shall be sufficient for their protection.

Art. 5. A citizen or subject of either party having bought a prize vessel, condemned by the other party, or by any other nation, the certificates of condemnation and bill of sale shall be a sufficient passport for such vessel for one year; this being a reasonable time for her to procure a proper passport.

Art. 6. Vessels of either party, putting into the ports of the other, and having need of provisions or other supplies, they shall be furnished at the market price. And if any such vessel shall so put in, from a disaster at sea, and have occasion to repair, she shall be at liberty to land and re-embark her cargo without paying any duties. But in case shall she be compelled to the land her cargo.

Art. 7. Should a vessel of either party be cast on the shore of the other, all proper assistance shall be given to her and her people; no pillage shall be allowed; the property shall remain at the disposition of the owners; and the crew protectedand succored till they can be sent to their country.

Art. 8. If a vessel of either party should be attacked by an enemy, within gun-shot of the forts of the other , she shall be defended as much as possible. If she be in port she shall not be seized on or attacked, when it is in the power of the other party to protect her. And when she proceeds to sea, no enemy shall be allowed to pursue her from the same port, within twenty-four hours after her departure.

Art. 9. The commerce between the United States and Tripoli; the protection to be given to merchants, masters of vessels, and seamen; the reciprocal right of the establishing Consuls in each country; and the privileges, immunities, and jurisdiction, to be on the same footing with those of the most favored nations respectively.

Art. 10. The money and presents demanded by the Bey of Tripoli, as a full and satisfactory consideration on his part, and on the part of his subjects, for this treaty of perpetual peace and friendship, are acknowledged to have been received by him previous to his signing the same, according to a receipt which is hereto annexed, except such as part as is promised, on the part of the United States, to be delivered and paid by them on the arrival of their Consul in Tripoli; of which part a note is likewise hereto annexed. And no pretense of any periodical tribute of further payments is ever to be made by either party.

Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Art. 12. In case of any dispute, arising from a violation of any of the articles of this treaty, no appeal shall be made to arms; nor shall war be declared on any pretext whatever. But if the Consul, residing at the place where the dispute shall happen, shall not be able to settle the same, an amicable referrence shall be made to the mutual friend of the parties, the Dey of Algiers; the parties hereby engaging to abide by his decision. And he, by virtue of his signature to this treaty, engages for himself and successors to declare the justice of the case, according to the true interpretation of the treaty, and to use all the means in his power to enforce the observance of the same.

Signed and sealed at Tripoli of Barbary the 3d day of Junad in the year of the Hegira 1211— corresponding with the 4th day of November, 1796, by

JUSSOF BASHAW MAHOMET, Bey.
MAMET, Treasurer.
AMET, Minister of Marine.
SOLIMAN KAYA.
GALIL, General of the Troops.
MAHOMET, Commander of the City.
AMET, Chamberlain.
ALLY, Chief of the Divan.
MAMET, Secretary.

Signed and sealed at Algiers, the 4th day of Argill, 1211—corresponding with the 3d day of
January, 1797, by


HASSAN BASHAW, Dey,
And by the agent Plenipotentiary of the United States of America,

JOEL BARLOW.

 

[bodecea]

Actually, our democracy is based upon BIBLICAL tenets. Hence "all men created equal" by GOD.....

And we have separation of church and state thanks to CHRISTIANS, i.e., the BAPTISTS, who felt strongly that in order to protect FREEDOM OF RELIGION it was necessary.

How many of those 10 Commandments are encoded in our laws?