The value of slavery?

[Asclepias]

I think thats a false equivalency. The closest any other group of people come to experiencing the horrors and atrocities committed by the US are probably the NA's. They are currently getting some reparations. Blacks experienced the atrocity and horrors of slavery for multiple generations without pay.

No. I dont see there being a point where reparations would be invalid. Its pretty much coded in the word reparations. Nowhere is a time limit specified. I know thats what most whites would like. For Blacks to pretend it never happened. The problem is only going to get worse and larger with time. Whites should learn that its not clever or cool to welch on their debts. Whites in the US profited from slavery either directly or indirectly and now theyre against making things right.

Pretty much. We understand as a group that the only way to fight racism is to invest in our own communities. I have never taken an official count. It doesnt work that way with us.

So, the best way to fight racism is with racism. Yet you rail against whites wishing to invest in white communities in order to ensure the economic, social, and intellectual success of those communities.

No the best way to fight racism is concentrate on your own community and build it together. Youve never seen me rail against what whites spend their money on. I could give a shit.

That doesn't seem to be fighting racism so much as ignoring it.

There's no requirement for anyone to fight racism, I'm not denigrating the idea of building a person's community, it just doesn't seem to be fighting racism.

I cant convince people to not support racism. I am of the opinion that whites will always support racism simply because it gives them an advantage. This is the same thing Drumpf knows. While white people make all this noise about him you have to remember that the vast majority of people that voted for him were whites.

Making sure Black people are economically empowered fights the effects of racism. Until Blacks control the system that pretty much all the fighting one can do.

When you say whites will always support racism...are you any different than those who spout off crime stats whenever race comes up? Aren't you lumping all whites together as if race is the only meaningful issue?

I wouldnt say I was the same. Two different issues and that specific thing with the crime stats is merely a selective interpretation of the data. Saying that whites are going to support racism is general statement. The reason why is more specific and one that is historically documented and reflected in this nation as a race issue.

 

[Coyote]

And...57 pages into this thread and I'm still waiting for some solid numbers. Who should be paid how much? Using current pay scales? Using pay scales prevalent during the time that slaves were working? We already know that A. believes that all current taxpayers should be made to contribute to paying retribution, regardless of their ancestors' place of origin, how or when they arrived in the US. OK, we have a source. But who should be paid reparations? All people of color, regardless of whether they can prove their heritage having derived from slaves held in the US? Any black person currently residing here, regardless of when their ancestors arrived? And what percentage of their bloodline should derive from blacks, African or otherwise, would entitle them to reparations?

Well...here are some ideas...

Slavery Reparations Could Cost Up to $14 Trillion, According to New Calculation

Calculating Reparations: $1.5 Million for Each Slave Descendant in the U.S | Black Agenda Report

This is what reparations could actually look like in America

 

[Coyote]

That was the past. You're dealing with a whole different breed nowadays, as we all are.

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

 

[Asclepias]

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

 

[Montrovant]

I think thats a false equivalency. The closest any other group of people come to experiencing the horrors and atrocities committed by the US are probably the NA's. They are currently getting some reparations. Blacks experienced the atrocity and horrors of slavery for multiple generations without pay.

No. I dont see there being a point where reparations would be invalid. Its pretty much coded in the word reparations. Nowhere is a time limit specified. I know thats what most whites would like. For Blacks to pretend it never happened. The problem is only going to get worse and larger with time. Whites should learn that its not clever or cool to welch on their debts. Whites in the US profited from slavery either directly or indirectly and now theyre against making things right.

Pretty much. We understand as a group that the only way to fight racism is to invest in our own communities. I have never taken an official count. It doesnt work that way with us.

So, the best way to fight racism is with racism. Yet you rail against whites wishing to invest in white communities in order to ensure the economic, social, and intellectual success of those communities.

No the best way to fight racism is concentrate on your own community and build it together. Youve never seen me rail against what whites spend their money on. I could give a shit.

That doesn't seem to be fighting racism so much as ignoring it.

There's no requirement for anyone to fight racism, I'm not denigrating the idea of building a person's community, it just doesn't seem to be fighting racism.

I cant convince people to not support racism. I am of the opinion that whites will always support racism simply because it gives them an advantage. This is the same thing Drumpf knows. While white people make all this noise about him you have to remember that the vast majority of people that voted for him were whites.

Making sure Black people are economically empowered fights the effects of racism. Until Blacks control the system that pretty much all the fighting one can do.

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

 

[IM2]

Alot of Blacks understand the fallacy of thinking individually in this country. If the Black population here in the US knew most Blacks were getting a large sum of money then they would agree to start working on the community. We know this because this is how we built successful communities in the past.

That was the past. You're dealing with a whole different breed nowadays, as we all are.

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

I think democrats do not see things as you think. Unfortunately republicans do and this is why we have to read republicans here ever day accusing democrats of thinking of blacks as one group.

Yes we are all free to support whatever business we want. But the reason why A says what he does is that in order for blacks to create the jobs needed, to rebuild, and to redevelop black communities, blacks must support efforts from other blacks.

There are over 18 million businesses in the U.S. There are 2.6 million back owned businesses. The African-American population is faring slightly better in terms of small business ownership. African-American make up 13.2% of the United States population, and they own 11% of the country’s small businesses. Now of curse this proportion is never considered when we discuss race.

The “2007 Economic Census Survey of Business Owners” found that as of 2007, 1.9 million black businesses accounted for 7.1% of the nation’s businesses, 0.8% of total employees and about 0.5% of total receipts. A summary of the findings for black businesses can be found here.

“It is encouraging that the minority business community is growing and making progress relative to all U.S. firms, but economic parity remains elusive, ” said MBDA’s National Director David A. Hinson.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/number-of-black-owned-businesses-increased-by-61/

In both cases we see the percentages blacks have is lower than the percentage of blacks in the population.

There are many reasons this happens and white racism is one of them. Whites refuse to do business with us, while we're making white business owners rich. Yet these same business won't give to indepedent black organizations that work in the black community. Most of our money is in white banks. But it took an act of congress most republicans oppose called the CRA to get banks to put some of our money back into black neighborhoods. So when people here start trying to argue with us about the black communiy and can't understand how we can "blame whitey" it is stands to reason that you apparently don't know about these matters. Whites are not being blamed just because they exist and are white.

 

[IM2]

So, the best way to fight racism is with racism. Yet you rail against whites wishing to invest in white communities in order to ensure the economic, social, and intellectual success of those communities.

No the best way to fight racism is concentrate on your own community and build it together. Youve never seen me rail against what whites spend their money on. I could give a shit.

That doesn't seem to be fighting racism so much as ignoring it.

There's no requirement for anyone to fight racism, I'm not denigrating the idea of building a person's community, it just doesn't seem to be fighting racism.

I cant convince people to not support racism. I am of the opinion that whites will always support racism simply because it gives them an advantage. This is the same thing Drumpf knows. While white people make all this noise about him you have to remember that the vast majority of people that voted for him were whites.

Making sure Black people are economically empowered fights the effects of racism. Until Blacks control the system that pretty much all the fighting one can do.

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Which whites are those?

Have you read the "The Road Not Taken"?

 

[IM2]

So, the best way to fight racism is with racism. Yet you rail against whites wishing to invest in white communities in order to ensure the economic, social, and intellectual success of those communities.

No the best way to fight racism is concentrate on your own community and build it together. Youve never seen me rail against what whites spend their money on. I could give a shit.

That doesn't seem to be fighting racism so much as ignoring it.

There's no requirement for anyone to fight racism, I'm not denigrating the idea of building a person's community, it just doesn't seem to be fighting racism.

I cant convince people to not support racism. I am of the opinion that whites will always support racism simply because it gives them an advantage. This is the same thing Drumpf knows. While white people make all this noise about him you have to remember that the vast majority of people that voted for him were whites.

Making sure Black people are economically empowered fights the effects of racism. Until Blacks control the system that pretty much all the fighting one can do.

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

 

[IM2]

And...57 pages into this thread and I'm still waiting for some solid numbers. Who should be paid how much? Using current pay scales? Using pay scales prevalent during the time that slaves were working? We already know that A. believes that all current taxpayers should be made to contribute to paying retribution, regardless of their ancestors' place of origin, how or when they arrived in the US. OK, we have a source. But who should be paid reparations? All people of color, regardless of whether they can prove their heritage having derived from slaves held in the US? Any black person currently residing here, regardless of when their ancestors arrived? And what percentage of their bloodline should derive from blacks, African or otherwise, would entitle them to reparations?

Well...here are some ideas...

Slavery Reparations Could Cost Up to $14 Trillion, According to New Calculation

Calculating Reparations: $1.5 Million for Each Slave Descendant in the U.S | Black Agenda Report

This is what reparations could actually look like in America

Those questions did not deserve answers.

 

[Montrovant]

No the best way to fight racism is concentrate on your own community and build it together. Youve never seen me rail against what whites spend their money on. I could give a shit.

That doesn't seem to be fighting racism so much as ignoring it.

There's no requirement for anyone to fight racism, I'm not denigrating the idea of building a person's community, it just doesn't seem to be fighting racism.

I cant convince people to not support racism. I am of the opinion that whites will always support racism simply because it gives them an advantage. This is the same thing Drumpf knows. While white people make all this noise about him you have to remember that the vast majority of people that voted for him were whites.

Making sure Black people are economically empowered fights the effects of racism. Until Blacks control the system that pretty much all the fighting one can do.

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

 

[IM2]

That doesn't seem to be fighting racism so much as ignoring it.

There's no requirement for anyone to fight racism, I'm not denigrating the idea of building a person's community, it just doesn't seem to be fighting racism.

I cant convince people to not support racism. I am of the opinion that whites will always support racism simply because it gives them an advantage. This is the same thing Drumpf knows. While white people make all this noise about him you have to remember that the vast majority of people that voted for him were whites.

Making sure Black people are economically empowered fights the effects of racism. Until Blacks control the system that pretty much all the fighting one can do.

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

 

[Montrovant]

I cant convince people to not support racism. I am of the opinion that whites will always support racism simply because it gives them an advantage. This is the same thing Drumpf knows. While white people make all this noise about him you have to remember that the vast majority of people that voted for him were whites.

Making sure Black people are economically empowered fights the effects of racism. Until Blacks control the system that pretty much all the fighting one can do.

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

 

[Asclepias]

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I am speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Sounds like affirmative action. Instead of it being given to only Black people whites and everyone else got more of it.

 

[IM2]

Here lies the problem with whites. The never ending excuses. You can convince people not to support racism. Whites were convinced to be racists. If you read Lerone Bennetts "The Road Not Taken", you see how whites were convinced to support racsim. In the same way, they can be unconvinced.

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

 

[Coyote]

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

 

[Asclepias]

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Both.

The way it was set up. The way it was and continues to be used to assist whites while punishing Blacks.

 

[Coyote]

That was the past. You're dealing with a whole different breed nowadays, as we all are.

Its not just the past. Its the present and future. There are plenty of Blacks like myself that patronize Black businesses before ever going outside our community.

Understandable, if there are black businesses able to address you needs within the community. I also prefer to patronize local businesses but do not limit myself. Fortunately, I live in a community that includes representatives of many nationalities, races, social groups, etc. I select the businesses I patronize based on references or personal experience, not solely one specific identifier. Unless the community within you reside is predominantly black and you have no other choice, you might be missing better service or products if you use only the skin color of the proprietor as the sole determining factor of your patronage.

I disagree. I dont have a problem with spending more money to get an item from a Black business even if its all the way across the country. The internet has given me access to products created by Black people and owned by Black people. My money is held in a Black bank. All of my personal care items are provided by Black businesses even my toilet paper. I understand what you are saying about service or quality of product. So far I havent had any issues. If I had a problem with service or quality I would try to work with the Black business instead of just dropping it like I would a non Black business. I understand as other Black people should understand that in some instances we may need to take a few steps and sacrifice so we can move ahead as a group.

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

I think democrats do not see things as you think. Unfortunately republicans do and this is why we have to read republicans here ever day accusing democrats of thinking of blacks as one group.

Yes we are all free to support whatever business we want. But the reason why A says what he does is that in order for blacks to create the jobs needed, to rebuild, and to redevelop black communities, blacks must support efforts from other blacks.

There are over 18 million businesses in the U.S. There are 2.6 million back owned businesses. The African-American population is faring slightly better in terms of small business ownership. African-American make up 13.2% of the United States population, and they own 11% of the country’s small businesses. Now of curse this proportion is never considered when we discuss race.

The “2007 Economic Census Survey of Business Owners” found that as of 2007, 1.9 million black businesses accounted for 7.1% of the nation’s businesses, 0.8% of total employees and about 0.5% of total receipts. A summary of the findings for black businesses can be found here.

“It is encouraging that the minority business community is growing and making progress relative to all U.S. firms, but economic parity remains elusive, ” said MBDA’s National Director David A. Hinson.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/number-of-black-owned-businesses-increased-by-61/

In both cases we see the percentages blacks have is lower than the percentage of blacks in the population.

There are many reasons this happens and white racism is one of them. Whites refuse to do business with us, while we're making white business owners rich. Yet these same business won't give to indepedent black organizations that work in the black community. Most of our money is in white banks. But it took an act of congress most republicans oppose called the CRA to get banks to put some of our money back into black neighborhoods. So when people here start trying to argue with us about the black communiy and can't understand how we can "blame whitey" it is stands to reason that you apparently don't know about these matters. Whites are not being blamed just because they exist and are white.

I believe in supporting local small business and farms regardless of race....but you do make a valid point about not being aware. On the other hand though...I get the feeling from some here that we are naturally racist because we are white or as one person said all whites are white supremacists. When you lump everyone into one label...then discussion ends. People get, rightfully, defensive.

Like I said, I don’t support reparations per se, to individuals, but I do strongly support investment into neighborhoods, empowering people through home ownership, and investing in education and that those solutions need to come from within each community...not a one size fits all as if all black or other people were the same across the country.

 

[Coyote]

That's the great thing about this country. We're free to support what we wish - whether it's minority owned business', green business' or local economies.

But are they are group? Isn't that the mistake the Dems make? Assuming they are one voting block? Don't their needs and goals vary like white people? What I support is completely different than what whites in rural Alabama support.

The Diversity Of Black Political Views

The mistake the Dems have made is not fulfilling their promises in a speedy manner or sometimes not at all. I dont have a problem with Blacks being one voting bloc. Thats how you concentrate and wield political power. Not all Blacks have the same view just like any other race. However if they wish to see real significant change some of those views have to be put to the side in order to concentrate power.

But do they even see the problems in the same way? For example - the varying views on racism in the polls.

Youre not going to find many Black people that dont see the racism that permeates the US. Some may have a different view on what may constitute racism in a specific event but in all my life I have never met a Black person that will say the US doesnt have a racist system (racism).

A racist system or that racism exists?

What specifically makes our system racist?

Both.

The way it was set up. The way it was and continues to be used to assist whites while punishing Blacks.

When you talk about "our system" - what do you mean? Government?

 

[Coyote]

Isn't Asclepias black? He's the one who said he can't convince people not to support racism.

I read the qoutes wrong. My apology.

I still stand by what I say to you though. Help whites end their racism please.

I'd prefer (and think it would be more likely to be effective) helping everyone end their racism than focusing on just whites. And yes, I'm using racism as the belief in the superiority or inferiority of one race to others, rather than the systemic application of such.

Of course, I doubt I'm helping too many people do much of anything.

You see, now we are back to the cause of the problem. Whites trying to claim how everybody else is a racist. Non whites are reacting to white racism as you are using it. End that white racism you end the reaction to it.

Every race has racists. Racism is an issue of humanity, not one racial group. I was pretty clear that I was speaking of racism in the individual belief form, the dictionary definition form of racism, rather than systemic racism.

Racism is not, and has never been, limited to whites.

Racism will probably never be ended as long as humanity exists, but minimizing it would be great. Minimizing it for just one race would be less so.

Again this is the problem with many whites. You want define racism to try making everyone else just as racist. But:

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

3 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Systemic racism is part of the definition of racism. And even if we limit it to what you want it to mean, the belief in white supremacy has been a cause of world problems. So it is important for whites to work on ending the racism in their community. What you call racism by others is the reaction and anger caused by white racism. Certainly this must be hard to understand when people actually tell a black person how they are wrong or should not be angry when they post here like we have no right to be. In order for things to change, this attitude many whites have whereby they want immediately to tell everybody else how everybody is a racist when they are asked to cleanse their community of it must stop.

Racism is a relatively new concept to humanity. Racism did not exist 1,000 years ago or even further back. It is something that can be ended

I disagree. Racism has existed for as long as humanity has had tribes. And racists can be black, white, or other. We are biologically hardwired to be fearful and exclusive of "the other".

 

[Coyote]

And...57 pages into this thread and I'm still waiting for some solid numbers. Who should be paid how much? Using current pay scales? Using pay scales prevalent during the time that slaves were working? We already know that A. believes that all current taxpayers should be made to contribute to paying retribution, regardless of their ancestors' place of origin, how or when they arrived in the US. OK, we have a source. But who should be paid reparations? All people of color, regardless of whether they can prove their heritage having derived from slaves held in the US? Any black person currently residing here, regardless of when their ancestors arrived? And what percentage of their bloodline should derive from blacks, African or otherwise, would entitle them to reparations?

Well...here are some ideas...

Slavery Reparations Could Cost Up to $14 Trillion, According to New Calculation

Calculating Reparations: $1.5 Million for Each Slave Descendant in the U.S | Black Agenda Report

This is what reparations could actually look like in America

Those questions did not deserve answers.

Why not?