Transgender 1st Grader Wins Civil Rights Case...

[Wake]

Wannabe conservatives do want to force others to cling to old religious traditions.
Conservatives do not.
Conservatives seek to protect the rights of THE INDIVIDUAL, not the majority, not the most popular thing to do, not the traditional thing to do but the CONSERVATIVE thing to do.
Something to do about the CONSTITUTION, a document dedicated to protecting the rights of THE INDIVIDUAL and limiting the rights of the government.
The Constitution, an interesting document. I suggest you take a look at it.
We are a nation OF LAWS, not of men and their various and changing like the wind religious and "traditional values" opinions.

I hear you, and that tangent is interesting and deserves its own thread. Do you call yourself a conservative, while also not accepting the exitence of social conservatives as legitimate? It does seem a little bit like that, from your post.

Back to what we were discussing, you say "this" is not a liberal vs conservative issue. So, how so? Are you suggesting that both liberals and conservatives have no qualms about the issue in the OP?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

if a first grader can figure he/she's a "transgender".....then by golly second graders should be given condoms.....and third graders should be allowed to marry....?

where the hell is this leftie emphasis on sex going anyway.....?

 

[novasteve]

The Navy Seal that had a sex change stated he had those feelings since age 3.

He has the surgery? Don't think so

 

[ClosedCaption]

Stupidest shit I've read here in a while and thats really saying something

 

[Wake]

I don't see how a 1st-grader could fully comprehend such a humongous change in one's lifestyle. At 18 months, how many of us even understood the concept of sex? Now this child has had (I think) an irreversible surgery that he'll never be able to change. What if he feels regret? What if he—or his parents and experts—were wrong?

Children ought to live as children, and should not be able to have these huge choices thrust upon them until they are at the point in their lives where they can fully understand the breadth and scope of their decisions.

 

[Katzndogz]

What is working out? Cutting up this boy and making him girl-like? Becoming a real girl is not possible. He will never menstruate or be able to have children.

If his genitals have been mutilated and such beyond use; he'll never be able to ejaculate or impregnate a women to have children anyway. So what's your point exactly, there's going to be something this child has to work through regardless of which decision anyone makes.

It's a shit situation to be put in, it's far to easy to sit outside of the weight of having this be your child and judge. Anyone who's ever judged something then been put in that same situation should be silent. Because they know it's never the same, and never as easy as it seems.

And Katz, there are actually people who try their hardest to be various animals they feel they identify with...so... but I don't quite get how a cat is the same as a person.

The child in THIS case has not been mutilated. His parents have given him a fantasy and demand that everyone else in the world treat their son in accordance with the fantasy they imposed on him. Don't confuse the issues. There nothing medically wrong with Coy. Actually, the parents likely had preplanned their transgendered son before he was born by giving him the name "Coy".

The point is that children, especially very young children, and 18 months is very young, are still learning and forming their identities. A cat is not the same as a person, UNLESS there are deranged parents who insist their child be treated like a cat, because that's the way their child identifies.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is not a liberal versus conservative issue.

Oh?

Is it not true that it is mostly liberals who pine for these kinds of social travesties, unlike conservative who cling to traditions of old?

It very well is a matter of liberal versus conservative in terms of ideology. Has it not been for some time a part of liberalism to always try to break past and move forward on issues of social morality using radical thinking?

It’s more a tradition of liberals advocating for the rights of the individual and restricting the state.

But this is indeed an ideological issue.

We have yet another example of the authoritarian conservative, using the power of the state to compel individuals to conform to rightist dogma, where conservatives seek to deny citizens their right to privacy and freedom of self-expression, motivated by fear of diversity and dissent and animus towards those ‘different.’

This is a matter for the individual to determine, and if the individual is a minor a matter for her parents and family to decide, not the state.

 

[Brain357]

What is working out? Cutting up this boy and making him girl-like? Becoming a real girl is not possible. He will never menstruate or be able to have children.

If his genitals have been mutilated and such beyond use; he'll never be able to ejaculate or impregnate a women to have children anyway. So what's your point exactly, there's going to be something this child has to work through regardless of which decision anyone makes.

It's a shit situation to be put in, it's far to easy to sit outside of the weight of having this be your child and judge. Anyone who's ever judged something then been put in that same situation should be silent. Because they know it's never the same, and never as easy as it seems.

And Katz, there are actually people who try their hardest to be various animals they feel they identify with...so... but I don't quite get how a cat is the same as a person.

The point is that this wont work out. If your born a boy that's what you are. Wanting to be a girl is just a fantasy because it can't really happen. No adult should promote this. They should teach him to love who he is, not promote something is wrong with him.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This is not a liberal versus conservative issue.

Oh?

Is it not true that it is mostly liberals who pine for these kinds of social travesties, unlike conservative who cling to traditions of old?

It very well is a matter of liberal versus conservative in terms of ideology. Has it not been for some time a part of liberalism to always try to break past and move forward on issues of social morality using radical thinking?

yup.....liberals want to sexualize our children....

 

[martybegan]

This is not a liberal versus conservative issue.

Oh?

Is it not true that it is mostly liberals who pine for these kinds of social travesties, unlike conservative who cling to traditions of old?

It very well is a matter of liberal versus conservative in terms of ideology. Has it not been for some time a part of liberalism to always try to break past and move forward on issues of social morality using radical thinking?

It’s more a tradition of liberals advocating for the rights of the individual and restricting the state.

But this is indeed an ideological issue.

We have yet another example of the authoritarian conservative, using the power of the state to compel individuals to conform to rightist dogma, where conservatives seek to deny citizens their right to privacy and freedom of self-expression, motivated by fear of diversity and dissent and animus towards those ‘different.’

This is a matter for the individual to determine, and if the individual is a minor a matter for her parents and family to decide, not the state.

Liberals advocate the right of the individual only if it suits thier interests, and in cases like this, if it falls upon a class they see as "oppressed"

So now the oppression goes onto the parents of the other girls in the class, and as the girls get older, themselves, because now one boy gets to use thier bathroom instead of with the other boys.

But I am sure if the other parents voice thier concerns they will be labelled as "whatver-ist" and squelched into silence by the PC machine.

I find it comical that progressives defend the rights of these parents, but usually go against things like homeschooling, mostly because they know most homeschoolers lean right, and you just cant have kids being brought up under thier parents morals (unless of course its deviant, then its just fine).

 

[ScreamingEagle]

This is not a liberal versus conservative issue.

Oh?

Is it not true that it is mostly liberals who pine for these kinds of social travesties, unlike conservative who cling to traditions of old?

It very well is a matter of liberal versus conservative in terms of ideology. Has it not been for some time a part of liberalism to always try to break past and move forward on issues of social morality using radical thinking?

It’s more a tradition of liberals advocating for the rights of the individual and restricting the state.

But this is indeed an ideological issue.

We have yet another example of the authoritarian conservative, using the power of the state to compel individuals to conform to rightist dogma, where conservatives seek to deny citizens their right to privacy and freedom of self-expression, motivated by fear of diversity and dissent and animus towards those ‘different.’

This is a matter for the individual to determine, and if the individual is a minor a matter for her parents and family to decide, not the state.

is teaching our children about homosexuality in the schools a form of "advocating for the rights of the individual" and "restricting the state".....and a matter "for the parents and family to decide".....?

your liberal argument here is strictly self-serving...

 

[High_Gravity]

I don't see how a 1st-grader could fully comprehend such a humongous change in one's lifestyle. At 18 months, how many of us even understood the concept of sex? Now this child has had (I think) an irreversible surgery that he'll never be able to change. What if he feels regret? What if he—or his parents and experts—were wrong?

Children ought to live as children, and should not be able to have these huge choices thrust upon them until they are at the point in their lives where they can fully understand the breadth and scope of their decisions.

You just nailed it.

 

[High_Gravity]

What is working out? Cutting up this boy and making him girl-like? Becoming a real girl is not possible. He will never menstruate or be able to have children.

If his genitals have been mutilated and such beyond use; he'll never be able to ejaculate or impregnate a women to have children anyway. So what's your point exactly, there's going to be something this child has to work through regardless of which decision anyone makes.

It's a shit situation to be put in, it's far to easy to sit outside of the weight of having this be your child and judge. Anyone who's ever judged something then been put in that same situation should be silent. Because they know it's never the same, and never as easy as it seems.

And Katz, there are actually people who try their hardest to be various animals they feel they identify with...so... but I don't quite get how a cat is the same as a person.

If someone cuts your cock off, you don't just turn into a woman. He was still a boy without the cock.

 

[Wake]

It’s more a tradition of liberals advocating for the rights of the individual and restricting the state.

But this is indeed an ideological issue.

We have yet another example of the authoritarian conservative, using the power of the state to compel individuals to conform to rightist dogma, where conservatives seek to deny citizens their right to privacy and freedom of self-expression, motivated by fear of diversity and dissent and animus towards those ‘different.’

This is a matter for the individual to determine, and if the individual is a minor a matter for her parents and family to decide, not the state.

This is a matter we will likely not agree on, Clayton. That said I respect you and your right to an opinion, and I'll continue this discussion with you for the sake of civil, mutual understanding.

When it comes to ideology, I'm neither liberal nor conservative, though I've been both at one point or another. What seems to be true is that liberals do indeed advocate for the rights of the individual, as do conservatives do. Both do so in different ways. That said, just as conservatives have their flaws, those liberals in this case advocate for such individual rights that they no longer stand on the foundation of sanity and reason. No, with their knack for radical thinking, they will always seek to push further and further into the fringes of society, thus changing the very norms of society... the Overton Window as they call it, I believe.

Their ideology seems to be more grounded in taking equality into the realm of insanity. It is the same when professors deem anti-abortionists to be racists, and the same when people who dislike the notion of communal weddings are considered bigots. Whereas conservatives do seem on average to be more sane, on the other hand they become less compassionate to humanity in general, while also becoming ardent and obstinate in matters of partriotism, when they cannot acknowledge when America is in the wrong. But, since liberalism and some liberals are the target of this discussion, let's continue with it.

You appear to consider this issue to be another example of the authoritarian conservative who uses the power of the state to restrict others into the rigors of rightist dogma. Your description does seem rather colorful. Being neither Right nor Left, I see this public reaction as shock and outrage against what is perceived to be yet another step on the path of insanity. Something as sensitive as an 18-year-old child's life being changed forever due to to less than reasonable desires of his parents and experts is, indeed, a matter to discuss. Talking about it it a critical matter does not make one an authoritarian conservative, now does it, Clayton?

I think your passions are misplaced, my friend. Some things are insane, unreasonable, and crazy. It is no more different than people reacting negatively to a statute that grants all citizens to walk about society completely naked if they wished to, among other things. When something is abnormal and potentially absurd, I find not fault in treating it as such. Furthermore, any expert could call any insane behavior or notion sane, if that person wanted to.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What is working out? Cutting up this boy and making him girl-like? Becoming a real girl is not possible. He will never menstruate or be able to have children.

If his genitals have been mutilated and such beyond use; he'll never be able to ejaculate or impregnate a women to have children anyway. So what's your point exactly, there's going to be something this child has to work through regardless of which decision anyone makes.

It's a shit situation to be put in, it's far to easy to sit outside of the weight of having this be your child and judge. Anyone who's ever judged something then been put in that same situation should be silent. Because they know it's never the same, and never as easy as it seems.

And Katz, there are actually people who try their hardest to be various animals they feel they identify with...so... but I don't quite get how a cat is the same as a person.

The child in THIS case has not been mutilated. His parents have given him a fantasy and demand that everyone else in the world treat their son in accordance with the fantasy they imposed on him. Don't confuse the issues. There nothing medically wrong with Coy. Actually, the parents likely had preplanned their transgendered son before he was born by giving him the name "Coy".

The point is that children, especially very young children, and 18 months is very young, are still learning and forming their identities. A cat is not the same as a person, UNLESS there are deranged parents who insist their child be treated like a cat, because that's the way their child identifies.

Your personal, subjective opinion is noted.

And if you have a transgender child you’re at liberty to compel him to dress and act in a manner consistent with his physical gender.

But you may not compel through the power of the state another transgender child to conform in accordance with your personal, subjective opinion.

 

[Katzndogz]

Neither should the parents of a purported transgendered child use the state to compel the children of normal children to treat the purported transgendered child as anything other than his normal gender.

 

[Wake]

Neither should the parents of a purported transgendered child use the state to compel the children of normal children to treat the purported transgendered child as anything other than his normal gender.

Agreed. I would never allow the government to force me to behave according to the moral philosophy of others.

 

[DiamondDave]

I love how it is 'rightist dogma' that XX or XXX is a woman, XY, XYY, XXY or the ever rare XYYY is male... LMFAO

And that when a child is a boy they go to the boys room, and when a child is a girl they go to the girls room.. the parents get to no more dictate the sex than they get to dictate the species designation.. it is what it is.. and if they decide to warp the poor child with this crap, it is indeed sad and cruel.. and dare we say WRONG.. sucks that they are USING this poor child to push an agenda

 

[DiamondDave]

Clayton.. there is no 'transgender'.. there is no process in medicine nor nature that is going to have a male changing to a female and vice versa.. unless this kid is a rare amphibian or fish

 

[Quantum Windbag]

28 years ago I worked on a medical malpractice case where the circumcision method burned the penis off a baby. A sex change operation was performed.
Many mother hen busy bodies also stuck their bored heads out of the sand on that one to judge.
Things never change for those who can not mind their own business.

If the parents don't want me opining on the way they raise their children they shouldn't try to convince me their little boy is actually a girl.