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Are we supposed to pretend that an teenage boy is a girl just because the parents convinced him of that when he was a toddler?
Who said the parents convinced the kid of anything.
Show me someone, anyone, someplace, somewhere, anywhere that changed their gender definition because their parents convinced them to do so.
For one, I did, but I am far from the only one. There is no way an 18 month old would be self aware enough to be able to determine that they were in the wrong body unless they were taught to believe that by an adult with an agenda. Believing otherwise would require extraordinary evidence because it is an extraordinary claim.
What is working out? Cutting up this boy and making him girl-like? Becoming a real girl is not possible. He will never menstruate or be able to have children.
If his genitals have been mutilated and such beyond use; he'll never be able to ejaculate or impregnate a women to have children anyway. So what's your point exactly, there's going to be something this child has to work through regardless of which decision anyone makes.
It's a shit situation to be put in, it's far to easy to sit outside of the weight of having this be your child and judge. Anyone who's ever judged something then been put in that same situation should be silent. Because they know it's never the same, and never as easy as it seems.
And Katz, there are actually people who try their hardest to be various animals they feel they identify with...so... but I don't quite get how a cat is the same as a person.
If someone cuts your cock off, you don't just turn into a woman. He was still a boy without the cock.
Who said the parents convinced the kid of anything.
Show me someone, anyone, someplace, somewhere, anywhere that changed their gender definition because their parents convinced them to do so.
For one, I did, but I am far from the only one. There is no way an 18 month old would be self aware enough to be able to determine that they were in the wrong body unless they were taught to believe that by an adult with an agenda. Believing otherwise would require extraordinary evidence because it is an extraordinary claim.
"an adult with an agenda"
is rank speculation on your part. Nothing more.
Your claim that a parent has something other than the best interests of their child is absurd and based entirely on your own agenda.
Look in the mirror. You are the one with the agenda based on nothing other than media reporting.
You do not know those folks and you are judging them on nothing other than your own political ideology.
Your agenda is at work here, nothing more.
This thread seems to have moved from the real question of the OP.
It seems to me that the first thing to ask is whether separate bathrooms should be allowed. Is there a compelling reason for the state to segregate bathrooms? If not, the entire case is really just a symptom of the bigger problem and we need to get rid of segregated bathrooms.
If, however, there is such a reason, we need to see how it applies to this particular case. If societal ideas of modesty and decency are the reason, does having a boy who identifies as a girl violate those ideals? I would imagine so; it seems that separate bathrooms are in place to avoid exposure of one gender to the naked bodies of the other gender. So, as this child still has (at least as far as the article in the OP) male genitals, keeping the child from using the female bathrooms makes sense.
If there is a different reason for segregated bathrooms, that reason needs to be clearly stated and it needs to be seen if it applies to this case.
I think there is a large disconnect going on here. If it is discriminatory to prevent a child who identifies as the opposite gender to their physical makeup to use the opposite gender bathroom, why isn't it discriminatory to prevent anyone from using bathrooms of the opposite gender? How is preventing me from using the women's bathroom not gender discrimination? What is the compelling reason that prevents me from doing so, but doesn't affect me if I identify myself as a female (but still have the same physical characteristics I do now)?
Based on the little information provided, these parents sound like fools. Children are provided with boundaries and discipline regarding any number of things, I don't see why pointing out the facts of their physical gender needs be any different. Still, it is their child, not mine. However, as they are asking to affect the lives of all the children and adults around them in the school, this moves beyond simple individual rights IMO.
Because with regard to pubic restrooms, neither men nor women constitute a minority subject to discriminatory measures, and neither men nor women constitute a class of persons adversely effected by the state regarding this policy.
Thats clearly not the case with transgender persons, who indeed constitute a minority and an adversely effected class of persons.
The issue isnt restrooms made separate by gender, rather, the issue concerns the individual right to self-determination in the context of privacy, where the state may not discriminate based upon how an individual elects to live his life, where there are boundaries of personal liberty the state may not cross:
It is a promise of the Constitution that there is a realm of personal liberty which the government may not enter These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one's own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life. Beliefs about these matters could not define the attributes of personhood were they formed under compulsion of the State. Planned Parenthood v. Casey (1992)
How Common Is Gender Identity Disorder?
Gender identity disorder is a rare disorder that affects children and adults. It can be evident in early childhood. In fact, most people recognize that they have a gender identity problem before they reach adolescence. The disorder occurs more often in males than in females.
Web MD: Gender Identity Disorder
Doctors, some of them from the top pediatric hospitals, have begun to advise families to let these children be who they are to foster a sense of security and self-esteem. They are motivated, in part, by the high incidence of depression, suicidal feelings and self-mutilation that has been common in past generations of transgender children. Legal trends suggest that schools are now required to respect parents decisions.
Supporting Boys or Girls When the Line Isnt Clear
Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.
People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.
Although delusions might be a symptom of more common disorders, such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder itself is rather rare. Delusional disorder most often occurs in middle to late life and is slightly more common in women than in men.
For one, I did, but I am far from the only one. There is no way an 18 month old would be self aware enough to be able to determine that they were in the wrong body unless they were taught to believe that by an adult with an agenda. Believing otherwise would require extraordinary evidence because it is an extraordinary claim.
"an adult with an agenda"
is rank speculation on your part. Nothing more.
Your claim that a parent has something other than the best interests of their child is absurd and based entirely on your own agenda.
Look in the mirror. You are the one with the agenda based on nothing other than media reporting.
You do not know those folks and you are judging them on nothing other than your own political ideology.
Your agenda is at work here, nothing more.
If that is nothing more than my opinion feel free to provide scientific evidence that there are actually who are not males yet are in male bodies. The fact that you resort to ad hominem instead of supporting your position with real evidence indicates that you are the one with the agenda here.
How Common Is Gender Identity Disorder?
Gender identity disorder is a rare disorder that affects children and adults. It can be evident in early childhood. In fact, most people recognize that they have a gender identity problem before they reach adolescence. The disorder occurs more often in males than in females.
Web MD: Gender Identity Disorder
Doctors, some of them from the top pediatric hospitals, have begun to advise families to let these children be who they are to foster a sense of security and self-esteem. They are motivated, in part, by the high incidence of depression, suicidal feelings and self-mutilation that has been common in past generations of transgender children. Legal trends suggest that schools are now required to respect parents decisions.
Supporting Boys or Girls When the Line Isnt Clear
Sounds a lot like this to me. The major difference appears to be the age of onset and which sex is most likely to get it.
Delusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.
People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.
Although delusions might be a symptom of more common disorders, such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder itself is rather rare. Delusional disorder most often occurs in middle to late life and is slightly more common in women than in men.
Mental Health: Delusional Disorder
I almost forgot, we also have the fact that doctors advise people to play along with the delusion.
How Common Is Gender Identity Disorder?
Gender identity disorder is a rare disorder that affects children and adults. It can be evident in early childhood. In fact, most people recognize that they have a gender identity problem before they reach adolescence. The disorder occurs more often in males than in females.
Web MD: Gender Identity Disorder
Doctors, some of them from the top pediatric hospitals, have begun to advise families to let these children be who they are to foster a sense of security and self-esteem. They are motivated, in part, by the high incidence of depression, suicidal feelings and self-mutilation that has been common in past generations of transgender children. Legal trends suggest that schools are now required to respect parents decisions.
Supporting Boys or Girls When the Line Isnt Clear
"an adult with an agenda"
is rank speculation on your part. Nothing more.
Your claim that a parent has something other than the best interests of their child is absurd and based entirely on your own agenda.
Look in the mirror. You are the one with the agenda based on nothing other than media reporting.
You do not know those folks and you are judging them on nothing other than your own political ideology.
Your agenda is at work here, nothing more.
If that is nothing more than my opinion feel free to provide scientific evidence that there are actually who are not males yet are in male bodies. The fact that you resort to ad hominem instead of supporting your position with real evidence indicates that you are the one with the agenda here.
Where is your scientific evidence?
You are the one with all the opinions here along with your know it all agenda.
With no scientific evidence of any kind to back up anything you claim.
How Common Is Gender Identity Disorder?
Gender identity disorder is a rare disorder that affects children and adults. It can be evident in early childhood. In fact, most people recognize that they have a gender identity problem before they reach adolescence. The disorder occurs more often in males than in females.
Web MD: Gender Identity Disorder
Doctors, some of them from the top pediatric hospitals, have begun to advise families to let these children be who they are to foster a sense of security and self-esteem. They are motivated, in part, by the high incidence of depression, suicidal feelings and self-mutilation that has been common in past generations of transgender children. Legal trends suggest that schools are now required to respect parents decisions.
Supporting Boys or Girls When the Line Isnt Clear
Sounds a lot like this to me. The major difference appears to be the age of onset and which sex is most likely to get it.
Mental Health: Delusional DisorderDelusional disorder, previously called paranoid disorder, is a type of serious mental illness called a "psychosis" in which a person cannot tell what is real from what is imagined. The main feature of this disorder is the presence of delusions, which are unshakable beliefs in something untrue. People with delusional disorder experience non-bizarre delusions, which involve situations that could occur in real life, such as being followed, poisoned, deceived, conspired against, or loved from a distance. These delusions usually involve the misinterpretation of perceptions or experiences. In reality, however, the situations are either not true at all or highly exaggerated.
People with delusional disorder often can continue to socialize and function normally, apart from the subject of their delusion, and generally do not behave in an obviously odd or bizarre manner. This is unlike people with other psychotic disorders, who also might have delusions as a symptom of their disorder. In some cases, however, people with delusional disorder might become so preoccupied with their delusions that their lives are disrupted.
Although delusions might be a symptom of more common disorders, such as schizophrenia, delusional disorder itself is rather rare. Delusional disorder most often occurs in middle to late life and is slightly more common in women than in men.
I almost forgot, we also have the fact that doctors advise people to play along with the delusion.
Transgender folk are schizophrenic?
You have lost your own mind.
Developmental Patterns of Gender Typing
Children develop gender-typed patterns of behavior and preferences as early as age 15 to 36 months. Girls tend to conform less strictly to gender-role stereotypes than do boys, possibly because there is greater pressure from parents and teachers for boys to adhere to the masculine role. Girls may also imitate the male role because it has greater status and privilege in our culture. Although some boys and girls receive support for cross-gender behavior, most are encouraged to behave according to traditional stereotypes.
Gender Roles and Gender Differences
Toddlers begin to use gender stereotypes in their play. Young girls begin to play with female toys, and young boys play with male toys. Parents also may treat their children differently. Many young girls are dressed in pretty clothing and treated very delicately. Young boys are often dressed in cute clothes that are easy to move around in. Boys are often encouraged to be active and strong.
Ages and Stages
So 18 months, while unusual, isn't impossible.
an 18 MONTH OLD! Oh my oh my, this is one of the worst cases of child abuse ever. It's like the rapist that says the 18 month old came on to him.
Developmental Patterns of Gender Typing
Children develop gender-typed patterns of behavior and preferences as early as age 15 to 36 months. Girls tend to conform less strictly to gender-role stereotypes than do boys, possibly because there is greater pressure from parents and teachers for boys to adhere to the masculine role. Girls may also imitate the male role because it has greater status and privilege in our culture. Although some boys and girls receive support for cross-gender behavior, most are encouraged to behave according to traditional stereotypes.
Gender Roles and Gender Differences
Toddlers begin to use gender stereotypes in their play. Young girls begin to play with female toys, and young boys play with male toys. Parents also may treat their children differently. Many young girls are dressed in pretty clothing and treated very delicately. Young boys are often dressed in cute clothes that are easy to move around in. Boys are often encouraged to be active and strong.
Ages and Stages
So 18 months, while unusual, isn't impossible.
Playing with dolls does not make you a female, having a vagina does, Lots of boys play with dolls and never grow up thinking they are girls because they have parents that don't jump to idiotic conclusions and then run off to doctors that tell them that their little boy is a girl.
Developmental Patterns of Gender Typing
Children develop gender-typed patterns of behavior and preferences as early as age 15 to 36 months. Girls tend to conform less strictly to gender-role stereotypes than do boys, possibly because there is greater pressure from parents and teachers for boys to adhere to the masculine role. Girls may also imitate the male role because it has greater status and privilege in our culture. Although some boys and girls receive support for cross-gender behavior, most are encouraged to behave according to traditional stereotypes.
Gender Roles and Gender Differences
Toddlers begin to use gender stereotypes in their play. Young girls begin to play with female toys, and young boys play with male toys. Parents also may treat their children differently. Many young girls are dressed in pretty clothing and treated very delicately. Young boys are often dressed in cute clothes that are easy to move around in. Boys are often encouraged to be active and strong.
Ages and Stages
So 18 months, while unusual, isn't impossible.
Developmental Patterns of Gender Typing
Children develop gender-typed patterns of behavior and preferences as early as age 15 to 36 months. Girls tend to conform less strictly to gender-role stereotypes than do boys, possibly because there is greater pressure from parents and teachers for boys to adhere to the masculine role. Girls may also imitate the male role because it has greater status and privilege in our culture. Although some boys and girls receive support for cross-gender behavior, most are encouraged to behave according to traditional stereotypes.
Gender Roles and Gender Differences
Toddlers begin to use gender stereotypes in their play. Young girls begin to play with female toys, and young boys play with male toys. Parents also may treat their children differently. Many young girls are dressed in pretty clothing and treated very delicately. Young boys are often dressed in cute clothes that are easy to move around in. Boys are often encouraged to be active and strong.
Ages and Stages
So 18 months, while unusual, isn't impossible.
Playing with dolls does not make you a female, having a vagina does, Lots of boys play with dolls and never grow up thinking they are girls because they have parents that don't jump to idiotic conclusions and then run off to doctors that tell them that their little boy is a girl.
That isn't how it works. The body might have a penis, but the brain doesn't recognise that penis as being 'normal'. The brain says that the body should have a vagina.
How do you change the brain's way of thinking?
Developmental Patterns of Gender Typing
Children develop gender-typed patterns of behavior and preferences as early as age 15 to 36 months. Girls tend to conform less strictly to gender-role stereotypes than do boys, possibly because there is greater pressure from parents and teachers for boys to adhere to the masculine role. Girls may also imitate the male role because it has greater status and privilege in our culture. Although some boys and girls receive support for cross-gender behavior, most are encouraged to behave according to traditional stereotypes.
Gender Roles and Gender Differences
Toddlers begin to use gender stereotypes in their play. Young girls begin to play with female toys, and young boys play with male toys. Parents also may treat their children differently. Many young girls are dressed in pretty clothing and treated very delicately. Young boys are often dressed in cute clothes that are easy to move around in. Boys are often encouraged to be active and strong.
Ages and Stages
So 18 months, while unusual, isn't impossible.
Playing with dolls does not make you a female, having a vagina does, Lots of boys play with dolls and never grow up thinking they are girls because they have parents that don't jump to idiotic conclusions and then run off to doctors that tell them that their little boy is a girl.
That isn't how it works. The body might have a penis, but the brain doesn't recognise that penis as being 'normal'. The brain says that the body should have a vagina.
How do you change the brain's way of thinking?
